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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 24 post(s) |
MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
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Posted - 2010.11.25 19:42:00 -
[1]
Edited by: MotherMoon on 25/11/2010 19:43:16 AS A 5+ YEAR PLAYER I HAVE JUST RESUBBED FOR THIS CHANGE! **** YEAH CCP!
learning skills do not make the make easier for older players.
removing them does not make it it so newer players are somehow going to catch up with my beefy 40million sp over night.
gogo ccp!
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
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Posted - 2010.11.25 19:58:00 -
[2]
http://cdn1.eveonline.com/community/devblog/2010/learning-skills-graph-1.jpg
In the graph is points out exacttly what I was trying to TELL YOU PEOPLE a YEAR AGO! right before I quit.
I'm guessing the purple one is if you train your learning skills before you lose double training time.
With the old system every point in learning was actually TWO points of attributes (double training time) And +5 implants were PLUS TEN IMPLANTS!
If you did not train learning skills before the double training end, then you would be behind by SIX MONTHS
and some people tried to say you don't have to train learning skills before the double training time, what a bunch of bull****.
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
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Posted - 2010.11.25 20:00:00 -
[3]
Edited by: MotherMoon on 25/11/2010 20:02:48
Originally by: Lahnius 14.95 per month ... my first month in EVE, so I'm not too awful troubled by all of this ... however, I do truly feel for those that have spent the couple months training the learning skills only to be presented with "ok the learning skills are going away, but hey here's a few changes to compensate the slap in the face, and by the way, dont be bothered with the fact that you spent weeks and roughly 30 bones for nothing ... merry christmas"
Yea, thats nice ... wait, what?
what are you talking about? if a new player spent the 1st month training learning skills then they get to remap about 2 million sp into useful skills that would of taken twice as long to get in the new system.
In fact if you just finished training your learning skills at double speed THEN YOUR BENEFITING THE MOST because newer players will traing at about 67% the speed you did.
Quote: 2) On my main my total amount of attribute points = 22+22+22+26.4+33 = 125.4 (maxed out) My new total will be 20+20+20+20+19 + 5*5(implants) = 124 points. Can you guys add 1 or 2 points to the currently 14 freely distributable points to compensate?
agreed however, they need to add 2 extra points. Maybe based on race or ancestry since that does nothing in game right now?
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
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Posted - 2010.11.25 21:04:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Patri Andari
Originally by: MotherMoon Edited by: MotherMoon on 25/11/2010 19:43:16 AS A 5+ YEAR PLAYER I HAVE JUST RESUBBED FOR THIS CHANGE! **** YEAH CCP!
learning skills do not make the make easier for older players.
removing them does not make it it so newer players are somehow going to catch up with my beefy 40million sp over night.
gogo ccp!
If I had played for 5+ years and only had 40mil SP to show for it, I too would be dancing. It shows you used the time to train some fun and instantly rewarding skills and now you get free max learning to boot.
You have won eve.
I've already got maxed out learning skills.
but for the 1st 2years. yes it really does make that big a difference.
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
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Posted - 2010.11.26 00:14:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Tarartia I have mixed feelings about this. I agree that dismissing the learning skills will be good for newbs, but it does penalize long-term players more than a simple reimbursement of the learning skillpoints compensates for. The trend towards dumbing down the game to the lowest-common denominator is disappointing, as is the argument that 'we aren't going to try for a best-practice solution because it would be too hard'.
As an aside (rant, stop reading now tl;dr ppl) I just trained an alt from scratch and got all the learning skills to level 4 (throw in Cybernetic early on and get a set of +3 implants) and it only took 10 days, so I find the argument that the poor newbs are turned off by the imposing learning skills a non-starter. You play EVE for years not weeks, so HTFU noobs! If your attitude is that you only want to play for a few months and want instant gratification, then CCP should weight the opinion of players who have paid for (multiple) subs over several years higher than the crowd who breeze in, complain, then quit to go play WOW anyway because it is easier. Next CCP will have to give everybody all the level 5 Frigate/Cruiser/Battleship skills because it disadvantages noobs too much. So while we are at it, I want free cap ship skills!
no the game was already dumbed down. to get into hurricane with good skills took 4 months with the double training time and no learning skills.
To get to the same level of skills AND training learning to 4/2 took 3 months.
it wasn't a choice, to get instant gratification you HAD TO TRAIN LEARNING SKILLS.
Not traning learning skills actully meant you had to wait longer to get into a ship you wanted. THAT MAKES NO SENSE.
Learning skills did not give you a advantage after a year. they paid off in under a month BECAUSE F X2 training time.
each point of learning gave you 2 points. SO you would have 8/6 and be training up a storm with your +10 implants.
There was no choice, you could either, wait 4 months to get into a PvP fit ship. or go for instant pay off and train learning skills to get both the learning skills and the hurricane in 3 months.
WTF
Now if learning skills were somehow something that only benifited you after a long time, like they used to, say it took 1-2 years for them to pay off, then that would be a different story.
but it takes less than 2 months.
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
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Posted - 2010.11.26 01:37:00 -
[6]
Edited by: MotherMoon on 26/11/2010 01:42:57 Edited by: MotherMoon on 26/11/2010 01:40:02
Originally by: ph47 Edited by: ph47 on 26/11/2010 00:38:52
Originally by: Salpad
Originally by: Wollari holy **** ... :) sounds promissing. Less teaching noobs why they should train learnings skills for weeks rather then training something useful to have fun with.
Exactly. As others have said, this will work wonders for new player retention.
no no this is about CCP only caring about the bottom dollar and all that
edit - fixed fail quote
no it's not, it's about 80% of the playerbase wondering when learning skills would be removed for the past 5 years!
Learning skills are one of the reason I can never recomend this game to my friends, it's bull****! only hardcore sci fi fans can handle it! get rid of them! they don't make the game deeper!
They limit the game if anything.
Do you remember why they made all the ancestry lines the same? LEARNING SKILLS! They couldn't think of way to work it in with balance into the new system because of learning skills.
Now that's it's gone we can get some diversity into what you choose in character creation! And maybe it won't have to be based on attributes! Like bonuses to weapon damage or speed FOR YOUR LIFE TIME, based on your bloodline.
that would be AWESOME. Then no matter what skills were maxed you could feel like your race still had a tiny edge in one or other fields.
Originally by: Kazini Jax While I am ok with the change, as long as you don't go overboard, I have to agree with those that say time lost should be reimbursed also. The time spent actually learning the skills at a slower SP/h pace than a newbie has to account for something. A 5-10% bonus reimburesemnt to Learning SPs earned. perhaps. Also, calling that a 1/2 of a Xmas present? Really? That's like taking $50 from me, taking $3 and wrapping up the other $47 in a nice bow, giving it back, and saying "Merry Christmas!" (when taking into consideration the time spent debate).
wait what? But they are giving the time back.
think about it, you'd rather they not give you back the sp for learning skills but give you back gametime? Then you'd have to wait 2-3 months of free game time just to get that sp THEY WOULD OF GIVEN YOU FOR FREE.
the 4 million sp you have in learning skills is sp that was wasted. And you'r getting 3-5 MONTHS OF skills points FOR FREE in a split second, and you would rather opt for no sp, free gametime? WHAT THE HELL? WHY!?!?!
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
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Posted - 2010.11.26 02:11:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Master Flakattack Edited by: Master Flakattack on 26/11/2010 01:53:53 Edited by: Master Flakattack on 26/11/2010 01:47:23
Originally by: Kazini Jax While I am ok with the change, as long as you don't go overboard, I have to agree with those that say time lost should be reimbursed also. The time spent actually learning the skills at a slower SP/h pace than a newbie has to account for something. A 5-10% bonus reimburesemnt to Learning SPs earned. perhaps. Also, calling that a 1/2 of a Xmas present? Really? That's like taking $50 from me, taking $3 and wrapping up the other $47 in a nice bow, giving it back, and saying "Merry Christmas!" (when taking into consideration the time spent debate).
While I understand that refunding us the skill book costs would introduce far too much money into the economy, I really do think that those of us who had to train those learning skills without a speed boost (like the noobs get now pre-learning skill genocide) should get some bonus SP. We wasted a lot of time training those at sub-par SP/hour rates.
Also what the hell, no neural remap? Seriously?
Originally by: MotherMoon the 4 million sp you have in learning skills is sp that was wasted. And you'r getting 3-5 MONTHS OF skills points FOR FREE in a split second, and you would rather opt for no sp, free gametime? WHAT THE HELL? WHY!?!?!
You're missing the point. Imagine spending weeks training your learning skills up slowly at what, 800sp/hour, if that? Slowly, ever so slowly, you increase your sp/hour rate. It takes a damn long time to do so. Yes, you were getting exponentially faster skill gain, but no more so than what a new player will be able to crank out. Those skill points ARE NOT FREE. They cost us money and time, and not just learning skill at 2200sp/hour time, I mean learning skill at 800sp/hour time, which is damn slow...
I love this change. I hated the learning skills and I'm glad, for everyone's sake, they are gone. But just getting the SP back really isn't enough... we lost a lot of extra time to those skills, and are due some extra SP I think.
ok I hear yah.. but... They will never catch up with us anyways :P
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
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Posted - 2010.11.26 04:13:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Ranka Mei
Originally by: Sader Rykane
Originally by: Ranka Mei See, I knew we'd get screwed. I had a PLAN too; and it involved training Perception + Willpower skills for the next two whole years; and at 2772 sp/h, thank you. And now I'm being robbed of 72 sp/h, which is 615,168 sp / year. Which means I lose a total of 1,230,336 sp on this deal in total for my current PLAN.
Once again.
EIGHT YEARS BEFORE YOU WILL FEEL THE "NERF".
Once again.
Dunno where you're getting that silly 8 years from, but I'm losing 72 sp/h immediately, so I feel the nerf instantly.
so 80 people can all tell you the same thing and you can't get it through you thick head?
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
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Posted - 2010.11.26 18:19:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Einear Lightfingers Final question then I am leaving this discussion as it is getting us no where. CCP will do what they want to do regardless of the effects it will have. SWG demonstrated the power of poor judgment and the Admins abilities to carry it out. My question: With no other avenue and being completely dissatisfied with this change. I am going to leave EVE. Pack my 5 accounts up and get out. My issue now is I have paid for all my subscriptions up to 12 months in advance. How do I get my real dollars back? A petition has been opened requesting this info, but I suspect it will be treated like any none PVP petition... It will get read some time next year.
god damn
Stop tring to compare this to SWG! this is 10th time a change in eve has been compared to it!
speed changes super cap changes new character creation
THIS IS NOTHING LIKE SWG OMG STFU
IN SWG the majority of players did not support the change. In SWG they reduced a game based on skill points to a level grind and deleted your character if you had too many skill points. In SWG they changed the combat system so that no one even knew what they were playing anymore. In SWG they had just released an expansion 2 weeks before hand that was REMOVED without notice to make way for the NGE.
Also in SWG after losing 75% of the playerbase they never reverse the changes. Which was the biggest laugh I ever had.
NOW GTFO
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
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Posted - 2010.11.26 18:22:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Inanna Zuni
Originally by: Ebisu Kami There is, literally no reason to not train learning skills, if you wanted to stay in this game. That is not a tool to sort out people, that is not a way to give the game diversity, they did not give any advantage in this game, since everybody and their mom had them anyways.
Oh so WRONG!
The sensibility of training the learning skills is seen by *most* players as something to be desired, but *when* you do them differentiates between players.
CCP, clearly, want to attract new players and their monthly payments, but the easier EVE becomes the less likely players will stay long term. There are many pilots here 5-6-7 years. What other MMORPG can say that? What MMORPG is even still around!
IZ
Hi 5 year player i support. I want my sp back!
also learnign skills are NOT a choice. I don't think most player realise what the times 2 speed thing really did.
it doesn't take 6 months anymore, to get to 5/4 it takes 2 months.
and it pays off in 3 months.
it's not a choice unless you'll be around for less than 2 months.
think about it a +5 cha implant gives you.... +10! and each point in learning gives you 2 poitns instead of 1.
you actually train at times 4.8 faster by the time you're done if you follow the right path.
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
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Posted - 2010.11.27 03:17:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Patri Andari
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: Sed Man
well you have punished people for making sensible long-term decisions. people who didnt now get a free ticket to equality.
Actually, its extending my advantage over them by 72 SP/hr since they introduced remaps. They'll never be able to get up to the speeds I've been training, and it artificially increases the age of my characters.
Noob.
-Liang
I shed a tear. All this time I held your opinion in such high regard.
I will stick to getting PVP advice from you none the less.
Or maybe you hold her opinion in high regard because she has a point, but your rage isn't let you see it.
just maybe.
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
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Posted - 2010.11.27 17:33:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Death Stab I have an idea (and hope that CCP monitors this topic):
Why don't you get rid of Rank 3 learning skills? You could leave Rank 1 skills and give them +2 attributes per level.
Nothing would change but newbies would not complain about long training time. They would be proud that they maxed their char out and happy while training BS to level 5 that they 'saved' a couple of days!
Newbies still would need to learn about attributes and learning process and there would still be a choice for people - to gain attributes or to train something else. Eve world would not be 'poorer' after the change.
I think most of old and new players would approve this idea.
to be honest, while I support the current changes fully. I would suppor this much much more. :P
to get all the rank 1 learning skills to 5 takes... I can't remember... 24 days? about?
to get them to 4 would take less than a week?
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
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Posted - 2010.11.27 17:41:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Syrr Northrope
The patient, I'll sacrifice short term enjoyment for long term gain, group are getting a nerf.
NO NO NO NO
you sacrifice short term enjoyment for a SHORT TERM GAIN.
that is why learning skills are ****ing useless and stupid! It's not a choice!
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
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Posted - 2010.11.27 20:50:00 -
[14]
Edited by: MotherMoon on 27/11/2010 20:53:59
Originally by: Mag's
Originally by: MotherMoon
Originally by: Syrr Northrope
The patient, I'll sacrifice short term enjoyment for long term gain, group are getting a nerf.
NO NO NO NO
you sacrifice short term enjoyment for a SHORT TERM GAIN.
that is why learning skills are ****ing useless and stupid! It's not a choice!
I've actually had the most gain out of the learning skills. I trained them all at the start, as the new rank 3 ones came out just after I started this char.
This change means, I've had years of higher training speeds and now get all my SP back to do with as I wish. What an awesome deal.
well yeah you get short term AND long term payoff :P
but this is talkign about the new double training time.
think about it, the payoff used to be almost a year for your real sp to catch up.
but you if trained them during the double training period, the training skills pay for themselves in 3 months.
And that's 5/4
edit:posting math again
each point in learning gave you TWO attribute points. IMPLANTS HAD DOUBLE EFFECT it took half the time to get a learning skill trained.
So ignoring the implant part.
you get 2 points instead of one in half the time, that's 4 times faster SP rate gain than before the X2 training multiplier. with the implants that cuts it again.
The final math leads to you get to the highest sp gain rate per hour 6 times faster!
but only if you do it in your 1st 1.6 million sp.
If you can't see why this changed how learning skills effected eve your blind.
learning skills were fine before that change went into effect. Getting rid of them is the lesser of two evils.
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