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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 24 post(s) |
Donovans
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Posted - 2010.11.26 09:03:00 -
[1141]
Hello.
I must say I have very mixed feelings about this whole " learning skills getting axed " issue. Of course I resent losing some skill points per hour under ideal circumstances: I trained those skills for an everlasting bonus and now I am the only one having to sacrifice however little of my sp/hour for the benefit of others. Amazing.
What really irritates me is the mockery and irony that I think permeate this blog of yours. You rejoice because I lost my sp/hour advantage over folks who didn't see fit to train those same skills. You cheer because you lower my sp/hour rate on top of that. You give those same folks the chance to ridicule me and my playstyle on the forums. You even have the brazen gall to call that a " present ". And to top it off you inform me that this is only about half of what I'll be getting.
Hey, I'm really amazed for your gifts.
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Jace Velize
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Posted - 2010.11.26 09:04:00 -
[1142]
Edited by: Jace Velize on 26/11/2010 09:05:17 All I can say as a relative newbie - 2mnths - ouch !! Ive just spent the best part of 3wks training all my learning skills up, literally finishing next Monday, and suddenly feel - what a waste of time that was .
However I do see (again being a newbie), what a good idea this will be to get people into the game quicker. The more the merrier and hey I think I will get some ISK back too
So really mixed feelings about this!!
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Nyio
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Posted - 2010.11.26 09:04:00 -
[1143]
I think this is good news, and a step in the right direction. And while I'm typing.. *looks at suggestions notes*
Why not give us more than 12 points to attributes, say 15-20 atleast? Yes I am serious and think that doing so would get CCP more long time subscribers.
Maxing out all skills in Eve takes like 18 years now (I could be a few years off). Hearing that would deter alot of the trial players from subscribing.
/Nyio
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Tarasina
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Posted - 2010.11.26 09:05:00 -
[1144]
Originally by: Torothanax Edited by: Torothanax on 26/11/2010 07:49:15 I've 85 mil sp. 5.4 mil is a cup in the bucket. I'm gettin hit with the nerf bat on all my future training, after taking a significantly longer time to train that 5.4 mil sp then it will take players now. It's not cool when you change the rules mid game. That's why I'm annoyed.
And yes it's a nerf. I will train slower afterward then I do now. Do the math on the soon to be removed 10% bonus.
Maybe some of you actually SHOULD play WoW, a game where rules change once a year at least (in PVP, every now and then in PVE). Welcome to games and balancing.
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Impolite Andevil
New Dawn Corporation Circle-Of-Two
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Posted - 2010.11.26 09:09:00 -
[1145]
I think this is an excellent change, even thought it kinda sucks that I just finished the learning skills on a new alt. I'll lose a bit of isk, but overall I think this is a great upgrade to the game.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2010.11.26 09:11:00 -
[1146]
Originally by: Sabr Sheppard Can we get an official CCP announcement if remaps will be available to everyone after this change. It would seem pretty silly to be stuck with a 9-15-5-5-5 remap for the next year when I could have a 15-15-15-15-14. Also I assume that the attribute point limit will be larger so I could, for example, have 25-25-5-5-5.
Nothing changes about the remaps. We don't get anything outside of what's said in the devblog.
All that is happening is that you get 12 more unremappable points added to your attributes in the place of points added through skills.
You will still only have 14 remappable points. Your new minimum attribute will be 12pts higher than it was before: 17. Your new maximum attribute will be 12pts higher than before: 27. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Vaal Erit
Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2010.11.26 09:12:00 -
[1147]
Cheers to the 72sp/hr loss whiners. I mean you are really stretching for something to whine about here. 72sp/hr loss for you and ~5m free skillpoints sounds like a terrible idea to me too. I mean without that extra 72sp/hr your character is basically worthless. Won't be able to mine in a hulk or run missions or fly a HAC at all. Might as well self-destruct.
Everyone knows that your total sp is the only thing that matters in EVE, much more over isk/skill/connections or anything else - It's not "Play through a pre-set story, become stronger, do endgame". Gameplay is open ended, and you make your own story. Unless you're too afraid of 'pvp grief' to do anything relevant |
Ish Maril
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Posted - 2010.11.26 09:15:00 -
[1148]
ARG !
Ok im a noob, but i just bought the whole rank 3 collection, almost 20M thrown away just yesterday ! (almost all my isk)
I am crying right now.
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Ebisu Kami
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Posted - 2010.11.26 09:18:00 -
[1149]
Edited by: Ebisu Kami on 26/11/2010 09:21:47
Originally by: Jace Velize All I can say as a relative newbie - 2mnths - ouch !! Ive just spent the best part of 3wks training all my learning skills up, literally finishing next Monday, and suddenly feel - what a waste of time that was .
However I do see (again being a newbie), what a good idea this will be to get people into the game quicker. The more the merrier and hey I think I will get some ISK back too
So really mixed feelings about this!!
It really was no waste at all. The moment you gained a random Learning skill to I, you earned more SP per hour then you'd have done without them and on top of that, you get those invested SP back in full amount, allowing you to relocate your base SP + "interest rate by learnign skills" into a ****ton of other skills that will catapult you forward by quite a margin. Be happy about that, since your learning-skill speccing and this change effectively warped you to your payoff-threshold, skipping the usual time needed to achieve the payoff-threshold. Be happy about that
Originally by: Sabr Sheppard Can we get an official CCP announcement if remaps will be available to everyone after this change. It would seem pretty silly to be stuck with a 9-15-5-5-5 remap for the next year when I could have a 15-15-15-15-14. Also I assume that the attribute point limit will be larger so I could, for example, have 25-25-5-5-5.
You were not able to remap the points you earned through learning skills before, so why in hell does everyone expect and demand to realocate them now? Also, it was already publicly declared, that there will be no extra remaps. What for, after all? You couldn't reallocate those points anyways, since they'll be part of the *base attributes*.
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Piscis
Gallente The Python Cartel. The Jerk Cartel
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Posted - 2010.11.26 09:23:00 -
[1150]
This is the most awesome thing ever. learning skills are the epitomy of fail in this game. I am super super stoked they are being removed and credited. Well done CCP. I LUFF YOU YARRRRRRRRRRR |
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Odnam Moc
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Posted - 2010.11.26 09:25:00 -
[1151]
Originally by: Piscis This is the most awesome thing ever. learning skills are the epitomy of fail in this game. I am super super stoked they are being removed and credited. Well done CCP. I LUFF YOU YARRRRRRRRRRR
0/10
Next time with moar feelings.
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Sabr Sheppard
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Posted - 2010.11.26 09:26:00 -
[1152]
Originally by: Ebisu Kami
Youw ere not able to remap the points you earned through learning skills before, so why in hell does everyone expect and demand to realocate them now? That's silly.
The problems that if they just pull learning skills out of my head without letting me remap, all my attributes will be (insert amount of points each learning skill gives) less than what it currently is. That could mean that for the next year I train at 1600 SP/H instead of 2600 SP/H as all my attributes are lacking the bonus the learning skills provided. Unless it looks at each characters attributes and figures out how many relative points to hand out to each attribute, we will need a free remap.
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NereSky
Gallente RETRIBUTIONS. SOUL CARTEL
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Posted - 2010.11.26 09:32:00 -
[1153]
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: NereSky So question i have is - all 11 of my learning skills are max'd at level 5 - do i get 'all' of these pts back to redistribute? and what about some recompense for frustration i had in training them all to level 5
You get all of them back, yes, but that is all you get. Your frustration is recompensed by the knowledge that newer generations will not have to suffer through the same thing, thus making the world a better place for all.
Yep totally agree on that one, but this arguement was put to CCP before (i remember it being discussed in 2004, i was a noob in game and had the same problem vets telling us tough luck learning skills need to be done we have ours max'd u need to do the same lol
Gm's advised that it showed commitment to the game so i trained them all to level 5 , now a 'U' turn has been made by CCP after players for years have been moaning about them,
I for one say the learning skill removal was Long Long Long overdue but players dug down and trained them. I believe there should be something a little more than SP's redistribution as ive suggested before and 'still' awaiting a answer on from CCP (maybe loyalty points = to half the Sp's or something - cant be too difficult - overall though i can understand and agree with the removal of the learning skills and redistribution of the gained SP's and as advised it will make the game better for newer players who can jump straight into a ship quicker to die before my guns, But i would like something extra to be given.
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Toramii
Le Moulin Rouge
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Posted - 2010.11.26 09:32:00 -
[1154]
As a long time player with maxed out attributes I welcome the change for the better for encouraging the "newbies".
CCP, whilst this window of opportunity is open. As others have mentioned why stick at +12 to attributes, why not increase it further say +13-15
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Ebisu Kami
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Posted - 2010.11.26 09:35:00 -
[1155]
Edited by: Ebisu Kami on 26/11/2010 09:35:04
Originally by: Sabr Sheppard
Originally by: Ebisu Kami
Youw ere not able to remap the points you earned through learning skills before, so why in hell does everyone expect and demand to realocate them now? That's silly.
The problems that if they just pull learning skills out of my head without letting me remap, all my attributes will be (insert amount of points each learning skill gives) less than what it currently is. That could mean that for the next year I train at 1600 SP/H instead of 2600 SP/H as all my attributes are lacking the bonus the learning skills provided. Unless it looks at each characters attributes and figures out how many relative points to hand out to each attribute, we will need a free remap.
That's bull****. You loose whatever learnign skills and attributes through learning skills you had and will get a flat +12 to every stat. Read the blog.
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Splifina
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Posted - 2010.11.26 09:38:00 -
[1156]
I can't believe this is happening!
And I have just about finished getting steamed over the reducing of requirements to train the advanced learning skills from level V to IV!
Outrageous! I want my old Eve back! !!!!!
!!
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Tore Smith
Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2010.11.26 09:38:00 -
[1157]
well done. good your doing this, finally.
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RnDr Brain
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Posted - 2010.11.26 09:41:00 -
[1158]
Originally by: CCP Explorer
Originally by: Sed Man ccp are never gona read all this...
We are still reading.
did You find some good ideas in this madness ?
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Sabr Sheppard
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Posted - 2010.11.26 09:44:00 -
[1159]
Originally by: Sabr Sheppard
Originally by: Ebisu Kami
Youw ere not able to remap the points you earned through learning skills before, so why in hell does everyone expect and demand to realocate them now? That's silly.
The problems that if they just pull learning skills out of my head without letting me remap, all my attributes will be (insert amount of points each learning skill gives) less than what it currently is. That could mean that for the next year I train at 1600 SP/H instead of 2600 SP/H as all my attributes are lacking the bonus the learning skills provided. Unless it looks at each characters attributes and figures out how many relative points to hand out to each attribute, we will need a free remap.
Also I'll throw in some math. Here are my current attributes: Intelligence: 24.2 [(5+4 base + 9 learning + 4 implant) * 1.1 learning bonus] Perception: 19.8 [(5 base + 9 learning + 4 implant) * 1.1 learning bonus] Charisma: 18.7 [(5 base + 8 learning + 4 implant) * 1.1 learning bonus] Willpower: 19.8 [(5 base + 9 learning + 4 implant) * 1.1 learning bonus] Memory: 31.9 [(5+10 base + 10 learning + 4 imlant) * 1.1 learning bonus]
If I loose my learning skills without those points being reallocated, my attributes will be: Intelligence: 13 [(5+4 base + 4 implant)] 46.28% reduction Perception: 9 [(5 base + 4 implant)] 54.54% reduction Charisma: 9 [(5 base + 4 implant)] 51.87% reduction Willpower: 9 [(5 base + 4 implant)] 54.54% reduction Memory: 19 [(5+10 base + 4 imlant)] 40.43% reduction
NOTE: The "learning bonus" is provided by "Learning" Learning skill which gives you a 2% bonus per level. I have it at V which gives me a +10% bonus to learning speed which as an integer is (1.10).
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Alison Dagger
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Posted - 2010.11.26 09:55:00 -
[1160]
Slowpoke reporting in.
This is one of the most stupid things CCP done to cripple EVE's spirit after nano-nerf. The game gets less and less hardcore, and more attractive to brain damaged people who would otherwise play WOW or L2. Say hello to more ШКОЛОЛО in your EVE.
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My Postman
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Posted - 2010.11.26 09:57:00 -
[1161]
Tears of anger in my eyes right now.
Thank you CCP Zulu, thank you CSM. If count is correct there are 397 more skills to be removed, and i strongly suggest you thinking about a free titan for every noob.
I¦m too outraged to find any words and my fingers are shaking while typing.
Thanks that i¦m at work, if reading this at home i might have emo-rage quitted now. At least i will deside this at the weekend. If quitting i will let you know that you can have my stuff.
Usually i¦m a polite, friendly person but now i have to say:
F+++ you CCP, f+++ you all CSM, take my 5,3 million skillpoints, devide them and stick them up where the sun does¦nt shine, and after that all die in a fire (IG).
Nuff said.
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NereSky
Gallente RETRIBUTIONS. SOUL CARTEL
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Posted - 2010.11.26 10:07:00 -
[1162]
Edited by: NereSky on 26/11/2010 10:07:39
Originally by: Alison Dagger Slowpoke reporting in.
This is one of the most stupid things CCP done to cripple EVE's spirit after nano-nerf. The game gets less and less hardcore, and more attractive to brain damaged people who would otherwise play WOW or L2. Say hello to more ШКОЛОЛО in your EVE.
CCP runs a business and if it means making the game to a more user friendly enjoyable level to new players to increase retention and attraction to the game then sobeit,
But i would reccomend to CCP finish other 'work in progress' sooner rather than later, and ofc sort out your bloody petition and bug reporting system as well your at it lol
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Setsuna Ratsetsu
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.11.26 10:11:00 -
[1163]
Hi, This might be slightly off topic, but in the latest blog I read Quote: "Also, recycling alts is against the rules and will get you banned"
can someone confirm this as I can't see anywhere in eula about recycling alts.
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Sotah Osodin
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Posted - 2010.11.26 10:12:00 -
[1164]
GAAAAAAAHHHH!!!
I just maxed out memory to train learning skills! EPIC FAIL!!!
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Au' Tena
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Posted - 2010.11.26 10:12:00 -
[1165]
@ CCP:
perhaps this question is answered already , but;
just one question wich isn't completely clear to me: what about partly trained skills (points) at that point in time.
i think u revered to them as "the fidly bits". would it be right just to asume they will be also taken on board wit the already learned skillpoints?
Au'
p.s. interesting changes. found the learning skils on their own rather a drawback myself as a noob. if there is almost no difference in the learing curve result, there is no need to make it more complicated. good work.
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Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
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Posted - 2010.11.26 10:19:00 -
[1166]
Edited by: Destination SkillQueue on 26/11/2010 10:29:39
Originally by: Setsuna Ratsetsu Hi, This might be slightly off topic, but in the latest blog I read Quote: "Also, recycling alts is against the rules and will get you banned"
can someone confirm this as I can't see anywhere in eula about recycling alts.
It's been in for a long time. Basicly it applies to people that used disposable alts to suicide others in highsec until their sec rating was so low, that they couldn't stay there anymore. Instead of raising their sec status back and go suicide again, like they should have done, they recycled the alts in an effort to bypass the negative affects of the sec status mechanic entirely and keep suiciding people indefinitely. Recycling your alts for reasons other than bypassing such game mechanics has always been ok.
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Sabr Sheppard
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Posted - 2010.11.26 10:22:00 -
[1167]
Edited by: Sabr Sheppard on 26/11/2010 10:24:24
Originally by: Setsuna Ratsetsu Hi, This might be slightly off topic, but in the latest blog I read Quote: "Also, recycling alts is against the rules and will get you banned"
can someone confirm this as I can't see anywhere in eula about recycling alts.
I skimmed it and could only find: EULA: 7-A-1: You may not take any action that imposes an unreasonable or disproportionately large load on the System.
Don't know if deleting characters creates a large load.
Rules & Terms: 26: We reserve the right to ban any user from the game without refund or compensation.
The blanket ban rule.
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Carniflex
StarHunt R.A.G.E
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Posted - 2010.11.26 10:24:00 -
[1168]
Originally by: Setsuna Ratsetsu Hi, This might be slightly off topic, but in the latest blog I read Quote: "Also, recycling alts is against the rules and will get you banned"
can someone confirm this as I can't see anywhere in eula about recycling alts.
Dont have link saved but EVE-Search should help you with that. CCP has stated on several occasions that recykling alts to escape consequences of your actions (for example security hits for suicide ganking or from rifter-pirating) is against the rules and you will get banned for it. All it takes is one character adding your alt to watch list and when it disappears with negative security rating petition it and you will get banned for it. First time I think it was reasonably short break, if you do it several times permaban will follow. BTW CCP does not ban accounts, they ban people, i.e., all accounts that can be tracked down to you as a person will get banned.
If you have question if some action is exploit or not safest way is to file petition under 'exploit' category with question about it including clear description of planned action. I can tell you from experience that they are very quick to answer under that category. I myself found ... a trick ... few days ago that could enable you (in theory), if you have a lot of patience and free time get more than 10 AU away from celestial objects in system. About 10 minutes later I knew that getting there and abusing my location there will most likely result in forced vacation from EVE for a little while. Plus as a bonus I did not have to go there actually (with good luck would have taken me few days to get that far) to find out that I should not be able to bookmark that location and if I can it's bug.
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Ranka Mei
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.11.26 10:38:00 -
[1169]
Edited by: Ranka Mei on 26/11/2010 10:39:22
Never knew my post about opportunity cost would cause such a sh*tstorm. Why, it's really very simple, boys and girls. I'll explain it one last time.
The (max) 5,378,000 sp you get reimbursed is exactly that: you get it back. Nothing more. At some point in time you spent several months training learning skills: time you could have allocated to other skills, if you didn't have to train learning skills. That's the principle of opportunity cost. CCP is rightly giving you your accumulated sp back for the soon to be dyfunct set of skills.
Now, learning skills are meta-skills, as they actually help you train the other skills thereafter faster. This 'extra' benefit is, however, nullified, as the newbie, with virtually no learning skills, gets insta-warped to the equivalent of having all learning skills at lv 5 (like everyone else). So, CCP effectively 'owes' you precisely 5,378,000 sp, to compensate for your loss, and nothing more. So far so good.
I know, in this day and age of instant gratification, when people see 5,378,000 sp, they immediately go on the blink and think they got 'extra' sp. And it's a lot to distribute; and it's sure good to have. But it's not 'extra' (and it's not even enough to break even; but I'll get to that later). You are merely being compensated for having had to learn the learning skills earlier, whereas as the newbie gets to skip that time.
The reimbursement is to compensate for past losses, not future ones as well. So, applying the restituted sp towards the future loss of 72 sp/h as well, I dunno, that kinda makes you like the guy who spends the budget twice. So, the 8 years argument is completely bogus.
Either way you slice it, come December 14th, you'll be training at 72 sp/h slower than before. Yes, you're getting all your other learning stats bumped to lv 5 as well. And you could call that a perk, but... only if they weren't already at lv 5. So, a toon who is 'all 5' on the current learning skills now, effectively just loses time. And continually so, as whatever remap he'll do afterwards, the best speed he can ever train at, at any given time, is still only 2700 sp/h.
Those are the simple facts. And no amount of grandstanding, yelling or namecalling is gonna change those. Show me how I can go back to training at 2772 sp/h in the new scenario, and I'll recant everything I said.
P.S. Losing 72 sp/h is not the end of the world, far as I'm concerned. But don't try and sell me an 8-year profit when, in fact, I'm losing a bit on the deal. --
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Alveolus
Core Synthesis Unlimited
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Posted - 2010.11.26 10:38:00 -
[1170]
I entirely approve of this product and / or service.
These skills have needed to go for a long time. This strikes me as an entirely reasonable method of achieving this.
Bravo, CCP. I'm impressed. |
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