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Lys Freeman
FREE GATES HUN Reloaded
1
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Posted - 2012.08.09 14:51:00 -
[1] - Quote
I'm pretty sure most of the players involved in factional warfare has met the random not-very-mature dude, who thinks it is very funny to shoot down members of their own militia. 'Well, whatever, his standing is reduced, and he will drop out of fw soon' might be a valid reaction, but actually there is a pretty convienent method to not do that. If you make a 3 man corporation, having 2 characters at at least 6 standing towards the militia (concrete number needs confirmation, but i remember that from our calculations), then you can have a third character having -10 standing, and still being in positive on corporate level. Now this character can do whatever he wants, with no real way to defend against it. You specifically need to check for his name on local, and you either run away (what is nonsense), or shoot him down (what costs you serious standing points, possibly dropping you out of fw). Even if he agressed first, you are penalized for shooting back, while he has nothing to worry about, and will shoot you down.
I petitionned the issue, stating a concrete character who does this, and the first answer from the GM-s was that 'he is penalized with standing loss and this is not against the rules'. Well, that's sweet, but he is not penalized, since -10 is the lowest standing. To the message stating this, I've got the answer, to write this in this section of the forums. So here I am. This is an exploit of the standing system, and I want to have players exploiting this dropped out of factional warfare for good. This game is supposed to be played by somewhat-mature-players, and not some teenagers playing on their mom's credit card. And having one player exploiting a limitation like this, ruining the day of many other players is absolutely ridiculous.
I have no real proposal to the solving of the issue, maybe a collective penalty for the corporation of the player for shooting on fellow militia members, but that would still cause problems (like stealing lp from finishing sites would become more tempting.) So yeah. Now i posted the issue here, I hope there will be some resolution. |
Fleet Warpsujarento
Caldari's Pride - Factional Warfare Cadet School
144
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Posted - 2012.08.09 15:09:00 -
[2] - Quote
-To do his standings trick he's got to be part of a player corporation.
-You don't get a standings loss for shooting someone you're at war with, even if they're in your own militia.
-Therefore: War dec him |
Meditril
T.R.I.A.D Ushra'Khan
96
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Posted - 2012.08.09 15:20:00 -
[3] - Quote
Fleet Warpsujarento wrote:-Therefore: War dec him
This is not really a solution because you a) have costs and b) he can just create a new corp to avoid the war dec.
I think the real solution for this would be that a corp which has a player with standing less than -5 to the own faction automatically gets kicked from FW after a a warning to the corp leader and a grace period of 48 hours. This should happend regardless of what standings the other players have. With this mechanics the corp leader gets a chance to kick him in time.
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Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
433
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Posted - 2012.08.09 15:21:00 -
[4] - Quote
Doesn't he receive a sec status hit for attacking you??? If he does, he'll become an outlaw and then you can attack at will...
Do you take a FW standings hit when shooting an outlaw that's a member of your militia??
Is this a common coinsurance, or just one guy that you know of??
While you have options, I think it's probably not right that you take a FW standings hit when defending yourself. |
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
433
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Posted - 2012.08.09 15:24:00 -
[5] - Quote
Meditril wrote:Fleet Warpsujarento wrote:-Therefore: War dec him This is not really a solution because you a) have costs and b) he can just create a new corp to avoid the war dec. I think the real solution for this would be that a corp which has a player with standing less than -5 to the own faction automatically gets kicked from FW after a a warning to the corp leader and a grace period of 48 hours. This should happend regardless of what standings the other players have. With this mechanics the corp leader gets a chance to kick him in time.
I do not like this solution at all.... Many people I know have very low faction standings from carebear days. If their alliance wanted to join FW, they would essentially be kicked out of the alliance...
I think there should be some middle ground.... |
Lucas Quaan
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
37
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Posted - 2012.08.09 15:32:00 -
[6] - Quote
It sounds really backwards that you can't shoot him without penalty if he aggros first, though. That should probably be looked at. |
Lys Freeman
FREE GATES HUN Reloaded
2
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Posted - 2012.08.09 15:46:00 -
[7] - Quote
Lets see:
Quote:-Therefore: War dec him Yeah sure, and pay for the wardec cost.
Quote: think the real solution for this would be that a corp which has a player with standing less than -5 to the own faction automatically gets kicked from FW after a a warning to the corp leader and a grace period of 48 hours. This should happend regardless of what standings the other players have. With this mechanics the corp leader gets a chance to kick him in time.
Nope, it would kill fw for basically all nullsec alliances (What we are for example). And at the time some of us dropped below -5 standing to amarr, there was no way to join to fw as an alliance.
Quote:Doesn't he receive a sec status hit for attacking you??? If he does, he'll become an outlaw and then you can attack at will...
Do you take a FW standings hit when shooting an outlaw that's a member of your militia??
Is this a common coinsurance, or just one guy that you know of??
While you have options, I think it's probably not right that you take a FW standings hit when defending yourself.
He does get secstatus hit. I still take FW standing hit for shooting at outlaws in my militia.
I know of one guy doing this, but there may be more. We are not in the normal region of our militia.
Being able to shoot back would be a nice start, altough he still could just alpha out some frigates. And it is still nonsense to have a corporation like this not kicked out of militia.
An idea popped in my mind: Negative standing character, with dropping standing might trigger a drop out of the militia without causing serious trouble. |
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
434
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Posted - 2012.08.09 19:04:00 -
[8] - Quote
Lys Freeman wrote:Quote:Doesn't he receive a sec status hit for attacking you??? If he does, he'll become an outlaw and then you can attack at will...
Do you take a FW standings hit when shooting an outlaw that's a member of your militia??
Is this a common occurrence, or just one guy that you know of??
While you have options, I think it's probably not right that you take a FW standings hit when defending yourself. He does get secstatus hit. I still take FW standing hit for shooting at outlaws in my militia. I know of one guy doing this, but there may be more. We are not in the normal region of our militia. Being able to shoot back would be a nice start, altough he still could just alpha out some frigates. And it is still nonsense to have a corporation like this not kicked out of militia. An idea popped in my mind: Negative standing character, with dropping standing might trigger a drop out of the militia without causing serious trouble.
I think one potential solution is to minimizing the FW standings penalty for shooting outlaws in your own militia, and it will become a non-issue.... I'm sure the militias will then create a blacklist of players that tend to shoot their neighbor, and natural selection will take care of them...
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Lys Freeman
FREE GATES HUN Reloaded
2
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Posted - 2012.08.10 22:24:00 -
[9] - Quote
Well, since I was redirected here by the most respected GMs, I would really like to get some official input on the topic. It is really fustrating to have someone exploit the standing system with no real defense against it, because we are on the edge of dropping out of FW. |
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
444
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Posted - 2012.08.10 23:32:00 -
[10] - Quote
Lys Freeman wrote:Well, since I was redirected here by the most respected GMs, I would really like to get some official input on the topic. It is really fustrating to have someone exploit the standing system with no real defense against it, because we are on the edge of dropping out of FW.
If you're looking for a GM or Dev response.... you're not going to get it here... Typically F&I is for flushing out an idea... from there, when you have a firm grasp on the ins & outs, you make an assembly hall post.
When you post in the Assembly Hall, outline what the situation is, what the issue at hand is, how you recommend to solve it, and the pros & cons of your solution... Then you should probably send a message to a CSM member that's known to represent FW, and they can champion your idea to CCP.
You might just want to poke the appropriate CSM member before putting it in the assembly hall...
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Rengerel en Distel
Amarr Science and Industry
305
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Posted - 2012.08.11 03:22:00 -
[11] - Quote
You can contact Hans about it, but I don't know that he would have pushed the idea much with CCP. It's a fairly edge case situation. Each militia has it's own group of players that like to take advantage of the militia tag to gank people. I don't think they'll put the resources into trying to fix it though, since it is an edge case.
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Feligast
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1282
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Posted - 2012.08.11 07:08:00 -
[12] - Quote
We call it "awox"ing, when a member of a blue alliance, or your own alliance, shoots or tackles you for hostiles.
Best way to deal with it is pass the information through your militia, and have all corps/alliance set him personally red until he and/or his corp can be dealt with. |
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
243
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Posted - 2012.08.11 07:55:00 -
[13] - Quote
Meditril wrote:...I think the real solution for this would be that a corp which has a player with standing less than -5 to the own faction automatically gets kicked from FW after a a warning to the corp leader and a grace period of 48 hours. This should happend regardless of what standings the other players have. With this mechanics the corp leader gets a chance to kick him in time. Yup. This is the only way for the loss of standings to have the intended effect (ie. act as a penalty/discouragement). Technically the GM's are correct, but FW is just a mess when it comes to standings as its a bunch of systems forced to function together creating all sorts of funky behaviour ..
Feligast wrote:We call it "awox"ing, when a member of a blue alliance, or your own alliance, shoots or tackles you for hostiles.
Best way to deal with it is pass the information through your militia, and have all corps/alliance set him personally red until he and/or his corp can be dealt with. Problem is that there is no way to deal with it apart from everyone and their mother (+plus extended family and farm animals) to declare war .. which will probably be boon to the person as he can then 'expand' into high-sec as well. Problem is that the designed penalty (standings hit) is being superseded by the FW specific 'joining requirement' and thus ceases to be a penalty .. |
Minnaroth
Powered by Yoda
3
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Posted - 2012.08.11 12:31:00 -
[14] - Quote
War Dec is the correct solution. The problem is war decs for small corps are too expensive and that decs don't follow players and pocos if they transfer corp. This is what needs to be fixed. I've proposed a solution to this on this forum but not had much interest. I'd link the thread if I wasn't on my phone.
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