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iluvtogank
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Posted - 2010.11.29 14:02:00 -
[1]
this is the beginning of the end. by removing them you have dumbed down the game. people say they are stupid because of their complexity which what makes this game unique. learning skills = what you do now will affect your future. sad event for this game. you people know that this will turn into WOW like game. new players just do not understand
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Brian Ballsack
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Posted - 2010.11.29 14:12:00 -
[2]
So you are saying that learning skills were the only thing that made the game complicated ?
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.11.29 14:14:00 -
[3]
It's complexity mainly for the sake of complexity, not fun or anything else seriously positive, a forced "faster small fun now vs more fun a bit faster later on" choice which doesn't really add much to gameplay or anything else that's really relevant. It was basically a "train them up as soon as possible as high as you can stand to at the time" situation with very little actual reward either way. I don't mind them going away (and the sooner they're gone the better), I am only ever so slightly and mildly miffed on a personal level about the most minute detail of the implementation (amounts of attributes added as compensation). _
Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting _
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Mashie Saldana
Minmatar Veto Corp
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Posted - 2010.11.29 14:17:00 -
[4]
EVE is still dying C/D?
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Kaahles
Fulcrum Weapon Systems Inc.
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Posted - 2010.11.29 14:20:00 -
[5]
People said the exact same thing about the changes in the probing system (both times), the display of a modules cycle status, the coloring of ECM modules, the skill queue, neural remapping, the sov changes in dominion, jump bridges, cyno jammer etc. etc. etc.
I could go all day with this. Anyhow the point is people were always crying "omg eve is dying". Hrm... guess that didn't happen after all so stop whining and use the crystal ball a little less to predict the future. It's getting old. ----------------------------- OMG THE SKY IS FALLING! Contract me all your stuff so I can save it! |
heheheh
Phoenix Club
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Posted - 2010.11.29 14:22:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Kaahles People said the exact same thing about the changes in the probing system (both times), the display of a modules cycle status, the coloring of ECM modules, the skill queue, neural remapping, the sov changes in dominion, jump bridges, cyno jammer etc. etc. etc.
I could go all day with this. Anyhow the point is people were always crying "omg eve is dying". Hrm... guess that didn't happen after all so stop whining and use the crystal ball a little less to predict the future. It's getting old.
I must admit i agreed with whining about the probing system change, it used to be complicated, now it caters for ******s, not good.
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2010.11.29 14:26:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Mashie Saldana EVE is still dying C/D?
always
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Zantris
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Posted - 2010.11.29 14:28:00 -
[8]
Learning skills were not complicated, they were ******ed. Everytime I brought a new player into the game and I had to explain learning skills to them I felt like an idiot for recommending the game to them, because they all gave me that same WTF look.
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Jennifer Starling
Amarr
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Posted - 2010.11.29 14:30:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Jennifer Starling on 29/11/2010 14:30:58
Originally by: iluvtogank this is the beginning of the end. by removing them you have dumbed down the game. people say they are stupid because of their complexity which what makes this game unique. learning skills = what you do now will affect your future. sad event for this game. you people know that this will turn into WOW like game. new players just do not understand
So because I made a 4 year skill plan and EVEmon told me to train int and per to 5/5 and mem and wil to 5/4 makes such a difference in the game's complexity, without which EVE wouldn't even be recognizable anymore??
It's not dumbing down to remove them, it prevents people from either not undocking for 2,5 months or people training at a slug's pace, both of which aren't neccessary to make it a complex game.
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Furb Killer
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.11.29 14:33:00 -
[10]
Originally by: heheheh
Originally by: Kaahles People said the exact same thing about the changes in the probing system (both times), the display of a modules cycle status, the coloring of ECM modules, the skill queue, neural remapping, the sov changes in dominion, jump bridges, cyno jammer etc. etc. etc.
I could go all day with this. Anyhow the point is people were always crying "omg eve is dying". Hrm... guess that didn't happen after all so stop whining and use the crystal ball a little less to predict the future. It's getting old.
I must admit i agreed with whining about the probing system change, it used to be complicated, now it caters for ******s, not good.
The old probing system was ******ed on pretty much every level, the new one is in basicly every way superior, including in that more player skill results in faster hits.
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heheheh
Phoenix Club
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Posted - 2010.11.29 14:37:00 -
[11]
Edited by: heheheh on 29/11/2010 14:38:16
Originally by: Furb Killer
Originally by: heheheh
Originally by: Kaahles People said the exact same thing about the changes in the probing system (both times), the display of a modules cycle status, the coloring of ECM modules, the skill queue, neural remapping, the sov changes in dominion, jump bridges, cyno jammer etc. etc. etc.
I could go all day with this. Anyhow the point is people were always crying "omg eve is dying". Hrm... guess that didn't happen after all so stop whining and use the crystal ball a little less to predict the future. It's getting old.
I must admit i agreed with whining about the probing system change, it used to be complicated, now it caters for ******s, not good.
The old probing system was ******ed on pretty much every level, the new one is in basicly every way superior, including in that more player skill results in faster hits.
Im guessing you couldnt do it before, i think it was better and took alot more player skill then simply drop all probes and move them to where you want them like it is now.
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RaTTuS
BIG Majesta Empire
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Posted - 2010.11.29 14:42:00 -
[12]
Eve is Dying --
Join BIG
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TheBlueMonkey
Gallente Di-Tron Heavy Industries Initiative Mercenaries
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Posted - 2010.11.29 14:44:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Furb Killer
Originally by: heheheh
Originally by: Kaahles People said the exact same thing about the changes in the probing system (both times), the display of a modules cycle status, the coloring of ECM modules, the skill queue, neural remapping, the sov changes in dominion, jump bridges, cyno jammer etc. etc. etc.
I could go all day with this. Anyhow the point is people were always crying "omg eve is dying". Hrm... guess that didn't happen after all so stop whining and use the crystal ball a little less to predict the future. It's getting old.
I must admit i agreed with whining about the probing system change, it used to be complicated, now it caters for ******s, not good.
The old probing system was ******ed on pretty much every level, the new one is in basicly every way superior, including in that more player skill results in faster hits.
The old system, for me, was a challenge, you had to have an idea of what you were doing, because of that less people did it and the rewards were higher... for a time.
The new system basically spoon feeds you results which, to me, is very dull. --
Nothing is worthless, you may have gotten it for free but it still has an inherent value
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Meisje
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.11.29 14:59:00 -
[14]
Learning skills are (were) a barrier of entry that pandered to the elitist attitudes of some eve players. They added nothing else to the game. Some people seem to feel that by taking them out, the floodgates are open for the stereotypical mmo'er and the overall level of the game will be dumbed down.
The reality is that these same people will try the game and will get eaten alive by gankers, griefers and scammers just like usual before quitting. The only difference is that they will probably have better stuff when it happens.
Seriously, enough of these learning skill whine threads please. Just enjoy the sp redistribution and htfu. There are enough broken things to focus on without concerning ourselves with stuff that isn't.
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Joe Skellington
Minmatar JOKAS Industries Independent Faction
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Posted - 2010.11.29 15:02:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Meisje
Seriously, enough of these learning skill whine threads please. Just enjoy the sp redistribution and htfu. There are enough broken things to focus on without concerning ourselves with stuff that isn't.
Yeah, I look forward to the 5.3 million SP I will get on two characters to re-allocate.
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Black Dranzer
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.11.29 15:12:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Me, in an earlier thread I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.
The key to understanding the removal of learning skills is to realize that they truly are a unique case.
Firstly, they're the only skills which have no tangible gameplay effect. By this, I mean they don't change how well your ships operate or your standings or your ability to build things or anything along those realms. They are the only skills like this.
Secondly, they're required for optimum performance regardless of what you intend your character to do. It doesn't matter if you're a miner or a hauler or a mission runner or a PvPer, you can benefit from learning skills. Again, no other skills fall under this category.
Thirdly, they have a very clearly defined optimum strategy; The sooner you get them, the better off you are. Some people will tell you that it's more "fun" to get other skills first, and those people are right, but "fun" isn't a strategy.
When you combine these three, you end up with a group of skills which have no tangible gameplay benefit but which must never the less be trained as soon as possible in order to gain the most benefit from them. This means there's a strong motivation for newbies to learn them. But learning them is boring, so often, a newbie will quit halfway through the learning skill process. There are some people who will tell you that those newbies who quit are newbies that we don't want playing Eve. Those people are elitist idiots who wouldn't know their head from their ass. I have nothing else to say about them.
If you consider these issues in depth, you can come to realize that learning skills are unique in that they deter newbies while not offering any interesting gameplay decisions. The choice of learning skills becomes a matter of willpower, not intelligence. This is not good game design.
Simplification is not inherently evil. Sometimes things really are needlessly obtuse or vestigial.
|24 Hour Plex|Mining Makeover| |
Flynn Fetladral
Brutal Deliverance
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Posted - 2010.11.29 15:36:00 -
[17]
If you like to log on, buy skillbooks, inject them, and watch them train while spinning in station with your ibis, then yeah I can understand how you might feel EVE Online is getting dumbed down. I seriously fail to understand though how anyone can think that by not having people need to spend an age training skills to make training skills faster is a bad thing. Taking away 11 skillbooks from 100's and years of training time hardly sets EVE Online into WOW territory...
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Herping yourDerp
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Posted - 2010.11.29 15:55:00 -
[18]
the 21 day trial is used to train learning skills, didnt you guys know that?
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hjgjgfgfgsj
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Posted - 2010.11.29 16:24:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Black Dranzer
Originally by: Me, in an earlier thread I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.
The key to understanding the removal of learning skills is to realize that they truly are a unique case.
Firstly, they're the only skills which have no tangible gameplay effect. By this, I mean they don't change how well your ships operate or your standings or your ability to build things or anything along those realms. They are the only skills like this.
Secondly, they're required for optimum performance regardless of what you intend your character to do. It doesn't matter if you're a miner or a hauler or a mission runner or a PvPer, you can benefit from learning skills. Again, no other skills fall under this category.
Thirdly, they have a very clearly defined optimum strategy; The sooner you get them, the better off you are. Some people will tell you that it's more "fun" to get other skills first, and those people are right, but "fun" isn't a strategy.
When you combine these three, you end up with a group of skills which have no tangible gameplay benefit but which must never the less be trained as soon as possible in order to gain the most benefit from them. This means there's a strong motivation for newbies to learn them. But learning them is boring, so often, a newbie will quit halfway through the learning skill process. There are some people who will tell you that those newbies who quit are newbies that we don't want playing Eve. Those people are elitist idiots who wouldn't know their head from their ass. I have nothing else to say about them.
If you consider these issues in depth, you can come to realize that learning skills are unique in that they deter newbies while not offering any interesting gameplay decisions. The choice of learning skills becomes a matter of willpower, not intelligence. This is not good game design.
Simplification is not inherently evil. Sometimes things really are needlessly obtuse or vestigial.
Nuff said.
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SurrenderMonkey
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Posted - 2010.11.29 16:32:00 -
[20]
...complexity?
Linear algebra is complex. The group of people who find learning skills to be complex is almost certainly a subset of the group of people who wear velcro shoes.
Learning skills are a time sink, but there is certainly nothing "complex" about them. --------------- Faction-Militia:Player-Alliance::Newbie-corp:Player-corp |
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Lord Rapture
Amarr Appetite 4 Destruction
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Posted - 2010.11.29 16:37:00 -
[21]
people who think learning skills are complicated are ******s, there is no need to speak sense to them. Just tape their mouth and tape their pants. they don't need to breed.
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Niccolado Starwalker
Gallente Shadow Templars
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Posted - 2010.11.29 17:00:00 -
[22]
Originally by: RaTTuS Eve is Dying
Maybe the forums are not filled with players at all? EVE is dead after all! Instead the forums are filled with eve devs without anything better to do then trolling their own Mods, and as such giving them something to do? C/D??
Originally by: Dianabolic Your tears are absolutely divine, like a fine fine wine, rolling down your cheeks until they flow down the river of LOL. |
Ganagati
Caldari Zebra Corp
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Posted - 2010.11.29 18:00:00 -
[23]
There is nothing complex about learning skills. Learn learning- gain SP faster. Learn empathy, charisma based skills gain SP faster. Undocking your ship from the station is more complex than that.
People complain because you are learning skills that have no visible difference to your character except to make you learn more quickly. That's fine if you already have some fun skills to play with, but for a new player that is boring as crap. Of course, you could ignore them and lose as much as 8 mil SP (at 5/4) per year compared to those that do. That sounds like a winner of a plan.
Nothing about the game is getting dumbed down. What is being done is that worthless filler skills are being removed because they have enough useful skills to take their place. I greatly support this decision.
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Captain Alcatraz
Muppet Ninja's
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Posted - 2010.11.29 18:09:00 -
[24]
From now on, consequences will never be the same |
Portmanteau
CTRL-Q
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Posted - 2010.11.29 18:12:00 -
[25]
Originally by: iluvtogank this is the beginning of the end. by removing them you have dumbed down the game. people say they are stupid because of their complexity which what makes this game unique. learning skills = what you do now will affect your future. sad event for this game. you people know that this will turn into WOW like game. new players just do not understand
Sorry, there was nothing complex about learning skills, irritating, yes, complex... only if you are ******ed
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Willmahh
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Posted - 2010.11.29 18:15:00 -
[26]
Originally by: iluvtogank this is the beginning of the end. by removing them you have dumbed down the game. people say they are stupid because of their complexity which what makes this game unique. learning skills = what you do now will affect your future. sad event for this game. you people know that this will turn into WOW like game. new players just do not understand
So the Op saying that being forced to sit on your hands for 2 weeks while you "learned" how to learn, just so you could actually start skilling was what made this game unique and challenging...
Learning skills were and are a annoying time sink that drove off many people from getting past the free trials.
The fact that they had to waste their 14 days 'learning' how to learn was silly and bad business.
Now people will be able to get into the game right away, and not have to waste the first few weeks "setting themselves up" to play.
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northwesten
Amarr Sigillum Militum Xpisti R.A.G.E
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Posted - 2010.11.29 19:19:00 -
[27]
mm Learning skills are bad for CCP business. I mean I have recruited 7 people 2 of them stuck to it because they paid for it. Other left thinking all the training for learning skill was a wast of their time/money.
I agree Learning skills are pain period. I mean you wasting $15 just to get the learning done?? That's bad and I am so pleased they removing this crap and now I can keep bringing friends in to get some real skills done and have game play.
The Skill training system what makes eve not learning skills.
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Shaalira D'arc
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Posted - 2010.11.29 19:20:00 -
[28]
Originally by: RaTTuS Eve is Dying
The more things change, the more they stay the same.
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baltec1
Antares Shipyards Angry Dogs
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Posted - 2010.11.29 19:24:00 -
[29]
There is nothing complicated about learning skills. All they do is take up more time for no reason.
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Khorian
Gallente Versatech Co. Blade.
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Posted - 2010.11.29 19:30:00 -
[30]
No no you got that all wrong, I think implementing warp to 0 was the beginning of the end. Or was it the added stacking penalties? I don't remember
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