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Angie McFish
Gallente Caldari Industrial Capitalist Consortium
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Posted - 2010.11.29 18:46:00 -
[1]
So basically I'm training AWU lvl 5 right now and with the unallocated SP coming the 14th I'll be ready to fly either a golem (with no missile skills though) or a Kronos (Roughly 6mil gunnery SP along with T2 rails). is it worth getting a Kronos or should I maybe get a vindicator or something else? Also, would anyone be kind enough to supply me with a good fit?
Cheers
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2010.11.29 18:53:00 -
[2]
The best thing you can fit a Kronos with is a second character beside it in an Oneirosà
àthat should tell you how worth-while the Kronos is. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Angie McFish
Gallente Caldari Industrial Capitalist Consortium
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Posted - 2010.11.29 18:58:00 -
[3]
Is it because rails "fail"? How much is the Kronos and not rails?
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Aqriue
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Posted - 2010.11.29 20:22:00 -
[4]
Kronos is fine, its just not a top tier contender in its ship class vs Golem. But if you look again, the Megathron is leagues ahead of a Raven in PVP like the Golem is leagues ahead of the Kronos. My friend flys a Kronos and has Small, Medium, Large Rails to 5 plus all the gunnery support skills and I cannot convince him to train the Small/Medium/Large to 4 for Blaster/Rail spec because he finds the weapons themselves to be less then underwhelming. I had started Gallente ships towards a Kronos and found they cycle fast with high cap cost and do nearly 50/50 damage spread against the two most common damage types in game, so I trained for a vargur to fix the annoying cap drain and can do three high damage types with only the Gurista proving to be a challenge (thermal resist is high and kinetic damage ammo is low).
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Darth Felin
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Posted - 2010.11.30 10:58:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Angie McFish Is it because rails "fail"? How much is the Kronos and not rails?
Kronos is good and usable ship by itself but rails.... It just can not stand against other Marauders. It have good enough fitting, it have good enough tank but crappy weapon system make it bad.
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Baneken
Gallente School of the Unseen
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Posted - 2010.11.30 11:02:00 -
[6]
Kronos sucks because it's only benefit against Domi are long range tractor beams and a better tank which is over kill for lvl 4's in any case.
http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html |
Vherr Arkhar
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Posted - 2010.11.30 12:13:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Vherr Arkhar on 30/11/2010 12:14:02 I'm actually rather happy with my Kronos.
The only thing that makes it "suck" compared to other maraudeurs (I do have one of each ^^) is, that every single other one uses the close range weapons. Golem: Torps Varg: AC Paladin: Pulse Kronos... erm... well Rails.
If there was a way to get Blasters to ~55km range, it would probably be as good as the golem. |
Templar Dane
Amarrian Retribution
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Posted - 2010.11.30 12:18:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Templar Dane on 30/11/2010 12:20:15
Originally by: Baneken Kronos sucks because it's only benefit against Domi are long range tractor beams and a better tank which is over kill for lvl 4's in any case.
Well, a domi actually outganks a kronos by quite a bit... Sentry domi with rails, shield tank it for more mag stab lovin'.
Originally by: Vherr Arkhar
Paladin: Pulse
Tachs all the way, dude.
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Vherr Arkhar
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Posted - 2010.11.30 12:31:00 -
[9]
Ok, tachs... right. Forgot about those... been a while since I used pala or nightmare. But they are, basically, a whole different league of guns.
My point still stands: Rails just cant compete with marauders using short-range-weapons. Torps and AC just OWN the high end mission running by topping >1k dps at ~50km.
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Lugalzagezi666
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Posted - 2010.11.30 12:38:00 -
[10]
Kronos is able to put out around 1050dps kin/th at 50+50k, vindy around 1200, but with spare slot for web/sebo and "some" cpu issues.
Both values are comparable with other marauders and faction bcs, but only cali and minnie/angel ships can select their damage type.
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Rian O'Shea
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Posted - 2010.11.30 12:41:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Lugalzagezi666 Kronos is able to put out around 1050dps kin/th at 50+50k
What? Show me a Kronos fit that does 1k damage at 50k. Heck, show me one that does 800 in a viable pve fit.
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Angie McFish
Gallente Caldari Industrial Capitalist Consortium
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Posted - 2010.11.30 12:46:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Angie McFish on 30/11/2010 12:47:31 Hmm, I wont respec to anything but gallente or Caldari, and there's no way I'm training missiles lol. Should I just train sentry drones instead and stick with a domi? Also, give us T2 drone boats :P 20% per level to drone damage.
[EDIT] Why not let the Kronos have 125bw for drones? Maybe that would par it up with other marauders if it could fit a full flight of sentries + a few anti-frig drones?
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NoNah
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Posted - 2010.11.30 12:54:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Lugalzagezi666 Kronos is able to put out around 1050dps kin/th at 50+50k, vindy around 1200, but with spare slot for web/sebo and "some" cpu issues.
Both values are comparable with other marauders and faction bcs, but only cali and minnie/angel ships can select their damage type.
I'd love to hear your Kronos setup. And even more so the other marauders setups.(And if you mean faction BSs I'd love to see those aswell(Technically if you mean bcs I'd LOVE to see those =P)).
In my world, breaking 1k dps alone is a stretch in the kronos. You do get longer range, sadly that's quite useless. And that's before mentioning the tracking issues. Parrots, commence!
Postcount: 480244
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Keitaro Baka
Babylon Scientific and Industrial Enterprises Babylon Project
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Posted - 2010.11.30 12:54:00 -
[14]
People using ogre IIs for pve dps counts at range are a bit silly yes.
tbh I agree, you might aswell bring a domi or if you want a vindicator.. the kronos is not a bad ship, but the combination of low range blasters, low dps rails and you can basically do the same thing with a well skilled domi/vindi makes it less than great.
Kronos has an absurd tank, or rather a lot of spare slots for mag stabs while still being lvl4 worthy, but generally the same can be said for the vindi/domi..
The only great thing about the marauder skill is that it's not bound to race and vargurs, paladins and golems are pretty nice for pve (nicer than the kronos imho).. so you might want to consider spending your sp more on the other dps skills (guns, missiles, drones) Ignore me
Drone Guide EON 21 & 22 |
Lugalzagezi666
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Posted - 2010.11.30 12:59:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Rian O'Shea
Originally by: Lugalzagezi666 Kronos is able to put out around 1050dps kin/th at 50+50k
What? Show me a Kronos fit that does 1k damage at 50k. Heck, show me one that does 800 in a viable pve fit.
[Kronos, New Setup 1] Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer Tracking Enhancer II Tracking Enhancer II Tracking Enhancer II
Dread Guristas X-Large Shield Booster Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800 Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field
425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L 425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L 425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L 425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L Salvager II Small Tractor Beam I Small Tractor Beam I
Large Hybrid Burst Aerator II Large Core Defence Capacitor safeguard II
1050dps with wardens /75+30/, 1096 dps with gardes /30+12/, gun dps is 915 at 51+58, tracking is 0,02. Omnitank is 500+, tbh faction invuls are there just for cpu reasons, id use faction rat specific hardeners. With 5% damage implants. Dunno about 2nd rig, maybe metastasis or even salvage tackle lol.
Btw even stupid armor fit with web, without any drones or implants can do more than 800 dps at 50k.
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NoNah
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Posted - 2010.11.30 13:12:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Lugalzagezi666
[Kronos, New Setup 1] Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer Tracking Enhancer II Tracking Enhancer II Tracking Enhancer II
Dread Guristas X-Large Shield Booster Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800 Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field
425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L 425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L 425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L 425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L Salvager II Small Tractor Beam I Small Tractor Beam I
Large Hybrid Burst Aerator II Large Core Defence Capacitor safeguard II
1050dps with wardens /75+30/, 1096 dps with gardes /30+12/, gun dps is 915 at 51+58, tracking is 0,02. Omnitank is 500+, tbh faction invuls are there just for cpu reasons, id use faction rat specific hardeners. With 5% damage implants. Dunno about 2nd rig, maybe metastasis or even salvage tackle lol.
Btw even stupid armor fit with web, without any drones or implants can do more than 800 dps at 50k.
Splendid.
Except, with the same principle a paladin does 1330 dps. And a domi does the same thing, but with better applied damage... Parrots, commence!
Postcount: 568047
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Jacob Holland
Gallente Weyland-Vulcan Industries
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Posted - 2010.11.30 13:23:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Templar Dane
Originally by: Vherr Arkhar
Paladin: Pulse
Tachs all the way, dude.
Never having flown a Pali outside Sisi I don't know but why would you fit anything but Megapulse IIs on one? Loading Scorch there should be no trouble reaching orbitting NPCs except when tracking disrupted out the yin yang, the tracking is significantly better, the damage at least comparable... and you don't want to be engaging outside 40km anyway... With Amarr Navy Multifreq your range is about perfect to take full advantage of a decent web and the tasty little web bonus.
I'm sure there is a good reason, but what is it? --
Originally by: cordy
Respect to IAC .Your one of the few people who truly deserve to own and live in the space you are in.
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Bradstone
BradNett Reloaded
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Posted - 2010.11.30 13:31:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Bradstone on 30/11/2010 13:32:34 I love my Kronos!
I have had it since they were released to the public... about a year ago was it?
I can't find any issues with it myself. But I have listed the highlights
Very Cab Stable Easy to fit with T2 items You DON'T need to splash out of Faction gear right away to get it working Drone bay is good size My guns hardly ever miss Does Guristas Extra in 30 to 40 Min Mine takes out a 1.1 million battleship in 20 seconds Tanks ALL level 4 missions easy - Enermies Abound 5 of 5 doesnt even stress it Easy to change fit from Rails to Blasters, PVP and PVE
I also have a Paladin to do the EMP/Thermal missions which is great to.
These two ships have made me billions and I will never go back to missile ships.
Just remember these ships are great if they fit to your taste of playing, mine is to crash into a mission kill everything and salvage as fast as I can.
Kronos is your friend if:
You don't want to undock and be one in 18 ravens which undock You like everyone saying the kronos sucks as you know different, and know what they are missing
I have a Vindicator to, its a fun ship but its lacking something the kronos has. I have a CNR, Nighthawk (From pre-Kronos days), Tengu, Cerb and Golem and these I hardly ever use anymore.
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Lugalzagezi666
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Posted - 2010.11.30 13:46:00 -
[19]
Originally by: NoNah Splendid. Except, with the same principle a paladin does 1330 dps. And a domi does the same thing, but with better applied damage...
Yes, paladin does more dps, kronos will still have advantage vs kin/th weak rats and angels. And no, dominix does not have better damage projection and lacks bonused tractors. If you dont care about tractors you can go for vindy.
Originally by: Jacob Holland ...
You obviously know what are you talking about.
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NoNah
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Posted - 2010.11.30 13:54:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Lugalzagezi666
Originally by: NoNah Splendid. Except, with the same principle a paladin does 1330 dps. And a domi does the same thing, but with better applied damage...
Yes, paladin does more dps, kronos will still have advantage vs kin/th weak rats and angels. And no, dominix does not have better damage projection and lacks bonused tractors. If you dont care about tractors you can go for vindy.
Originally by: Jacob Holland ...
You obviously know what are you talking about.
So if you can choose your opponents your better off with a paladin. If you an't your better off with a machariel or golem?
The domi gets roughly the same dps, but almost half of it is immune to ewar. And it can swap range depending on range. How is it not better?
Parrots, commence!
Postcount: 484447
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2010.11.30 13:55:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Bradstone I have had it since they were released to the public... about a year ago was it?
Three. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Ogogov
Gallente Test Alliance Please Ignore
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Posted - 2010.11.30 14:08:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Tippia The best thing you can fit a Kronos with is a second character beside it in an Oneirosà
àthat should tell you how worth-while the Kronos is.
Quoted for truth.
As a marauder and at the last check a 565,000,000 ISK hull, of course the Kronos is a capable mission runner.
Unfortunately it's by far the worst marauder, gimped by some nonsensical bonuses (stasis web bonus for missions? REALLY? ) and the terrible state of hybrids. It's a pure-bred blaster boat, however as blasters on a battleship designed for missioning is just pants-on-head ******ed. It would be pants-on-head ******ed even if MWD was available in most deadspace or mission plexes, and that just adds a whole new level of fail to an already impressively bad idea.
In fact, I'd go as far as to say the Gallente marauder should have been based on the Domi hull, and a drone boat... and the Black Ops BS should have been based off the Mega, as their intended roles and designs are that backwards to what is needed.
TL;DR - It's a horrible ship and you can go much faster dualboxing a couple of Ishtars. That and you can get three fully fit T2 Ishtars for the price of one Kronos.
Also Disclaimer- 7.7m SP in hybrid turrets, near-perfect support and tanking skills and marauders IV here.
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Lugalzagezi666
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Posted - 2010.11.30 14:22:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Lugalzagezi666 on 30/11/2010 14:25:17
Originally by: NoNah ...
Domi can get dps numbers as high as kronos only with gardes, full rack of rails and magstabs - and gardes hit only to 30+12, maybe 40+12 if you fit omnis. Rails on kronos hit to 50+50k! If you fit more omnis and go armor tank, you will lose dps from guns. Dps immune to ewar? Yes, but drones also like to change targets, ignore focus fire and they do get targeted by rats. Generally guns are much better for missioning than drones or missiles.
You are also forgetting that not everyone can go missioning to other factions space - and even if they can, building enough standings is pita and usually not worth it.
Regarding fitting pulses to pally - its a valid alternative... for maybe 2 missions. For the rest tachys are clearly superior. Mps have only better damage to 25k ofc. But i agree it could be really fun to watch some clueless carebear in his brand new pulse pally doing blockade and abing to every wreck. Definitely does wonders for isk/h.
E: Originally by: Ogogov TL;DR - It's a horrible ship and you can go much faster dualboxing a couple of Ishtars. That and you can get three fully fit T2 Ishtars for the price of one Kronos.
Or you can go 2x faster than ishtars dualboxing 2 kronoses... are you seriously comparing dualboxing to missioning with 1 ship?
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Baneken
Gallente School of the Unseen
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Posted - 2010.11.30 14:53:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Lugalzagezi666
1050dps with wardens /75+30/, 1096 dps with gardes /30+12/, gun dps is 915 at 51+58, tracking is 0,02. Omnitank is 500+, tbh faction invuls are there just for cpu reasons, id use faction rat specific hardeners. With 5% damage implants. Dunno about 2nd rig, maybe metastasis or even salvage tackle lol.
Unfortunately you can squeeze only 3x sentries out from your kronos dropping your total dps to 950 (980 with 5% hybrid implant) with all V skills. So even with a 5% implant you aren't going over a 1000dps, if you could somehow get more then 3x sentries out it might be different or well you could fit a sentry damage augmenter for your 3x sentrys that might just barely top you over a 1000dps mark. But since your dps is still the same as with a common Dominix. No amount of pimping aside from ridiculous EFT-warrioring can alter the fact that kronos just doesn't have good enough dps to warrant it's almost 1-billion pricetag and catastrophic web bonus.
http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html |
Lugalzagezi666
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Posted - 2010.11.30 15:11:00 -
[25]
You must be doing it wrong, that fit has 1096 dps with 3 gardes. I dont think its standard dps for domi and to get such high dps domi WILL be fitting faction mods too. And 500m for hull + 500m for fit is nothing in pve, you can easily sell it after you decide you dont want to do missions anymore with almost no loss.
Not to say that domi has much worse range than kronos and lacks tractor bonus + big cargo. Also post your domi fit so we can compare them.
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Furb Killer
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.11.30 15:17:00 -
[26]
Giving kronos 150m3 drone bay with 125 bandwidth would make it a good marauder, or at least give it 100 bandwidth.
I fly a kronos, but only reason i do that is because i dont have ISK now for mach. I used to advice pure gallente pilots to go kronos simply because tractor bonus was awesome for more income in mission. But with mission loot nerf i would now just go for a domi or a vindi.
Btw if cap stability of your kronos is awesome you fitted too many cap mods.
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Elsa Nietzsche
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Posted - 2010.11.30 16:28:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Elsa Nietzsche on 30/11/2010 16:30:24 I guess IÆve flown a kronos for about a year now. I didnÆt know any better and I figured gunnery skills would transition into pvp better than drone skills. The ship runs serp/gurist missions pretty fast but it runs angel/sansha missions terribly slow. The tractor beam bonus was nice and the low ammo usage was cool too. So much so I started using fed navy ammo a month or so before I quit missioning. The kronos can fit a massive tank at or very near to cap stable. I ran a 800 dps pulse tank which is way overkill but it was my playstyle. The reality is that itÆs a good ship for gallente space missions. If I was to get back into missioning though, IÆd train for the caldari or minmatar marauder. My beef with the ship was the ability to hit small ships, even very far out. 2-3 volleys for elite cruisers and I just gave up on trying to shoot incoming elite frigs. Let my drones deal with them. I could engage them at 70km and still spend far too much time on them. Further, my setup only did about 700+ dps where as after I got t2 sentries, I could fit a domi for 1k+. My setup Lows corpus a-type LAR 2 thermic 1 kenetic 3 fed navy mag stabs Meds 2 fed navy tracking computers 2 cap rechargers Highs 4 t2 425mm 3 tractors Rigs 1 T2 CCC 1 T1 CCC (changed from t1 hybrid dmg rig) Drones 5 t2 hobgoblins 5 t2 hammerheads
implants CC8 CR8 3%/3% hybrid dmg implants
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2010.11.30 17:17:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Furb Killer Giving kronos 150m3 drone bay with 125 bandwidth would make it a good marauder, or at least give it 100 bandwidth.
I fly a kronos, but only reason i do that is because i dont have ISK now for mach. I used to advice pure gallente pilots to go kronos simply because tractor bonus was awesome for more income in mission. But with mission loot nerf i would now just go for a domi or a vindi.
Btw if cap stability of your kronos is awesome you fitted too many cap mods.
more bandwidth would be nice. and extra mids for tracking links for the garde IIs wouldn't hurt
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Baneken
Gallente School of the Unseen
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Posted - 2010.11.30 17:24:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Lugalzagezi666 You must be doing it wrong, that fit has 1096 dps with 3 gardes. I dont think its standard dps for domi and to get such high dps domi WILL be fitting faction mods too. And 500m for hull + 500m for fit is nothing in pve, you can easily sell it after you decide you dont want to do missions anymore with almost no loss.
Not to say that domi has much worse range than kronos and lacks tractor bonus + big cargo. Also post your domi fit so we can compare them.
I actually pasted your fit to EFT and since you posted your fit, I'll post mine.
892 dps with a 10x less price then a kronos with a decent tank, optimal range is less then kronos with 425's but then you would have to fit in a sebo as well to benefit from extra range so 425's would be a waste anyway.
[Dominix, L4 domi] Imperial Navy Large Armor Repairer Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer Imperial Navy Armor Thermic Hardener True Sansha Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane Imperial Navy Armor EM Hardener Damage Control II
Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link
350mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L 350mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L 350mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L 350mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L 350mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L Drone Link Augmentor I
Large Sentry Damage Augmentor I Large Sentry Damage Augmentor I [empty rig slot]
Ogre II x5 Hobgoblin II x5 Hammerhead II x5 Garde II x5
Difference between navy and regular T2 are 849 and 832 so not much of an upgrade to use faction aside from tank and that is actually t2 that I personally use (exept LAR).
http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html |
Lugalzagezi666
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Posted - 2010.11.30 17:43:00 -
[30]
So there is 150dps difference and range on your guns is 25+27k instead of 50+50k. You also dont have bonused tractors and 1k m3 cargo. How can this compete with kronos?
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