Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
ImmutableDark
|
Posted - 2010.12.01 09:08:00 -
[1]
Wow they fixed rockets... hooray... but not for the kestrel... waah? They redesigned them to be used for -60% webs. The kestrel can't fit prop, tank, scram and a web it needs another mid slot. If you armor tank with it it's too slow and will still lose. On the fleet fit for kestrels the 4th slot will probably be used for a cap recharger. Is this overpowered? Possibly if you want to hit with the pvp weapons your ship was designed to use.
Knew this would happen.... CCP losers...
|
Fastbikkel
T.H.U.G L.I.F.E
|
Posted - 2010.12.01 09:42:00 -
[2]
I can understand the frustration, but calling CCP losers without hearing their view on this is unfair. I would love to see the maller getting a damage bonus, but that doesnt make me hate CCP. Overall they do a great job i think, looking at how complex it all is. -If the enemy is in range, so are you- |
Korg Leaf
Time Bandits.
|
Posted - 2010.12.01 09:47:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Korg Leaf on 01/12/2010 09:47:18 Another one of these threads really.
On a side note though, i would love it if the kestrel had a 4th mid as well would mean my alt could pilot a decent frigate that isnt a hookbill (love the hookbill). Unfortunately the kestrel being a tier 2 frigate suffers from that fact, once ccp get rid of the tier system a whole load of ships will (hopefully) become really nice.
To be honest though there are several more ships that are in a much worse state than the kestrel. Caracal, Omen, Maller, Retribution to name just a few.
edit. added a bit of spacing
|
ImmutableDark
|
Posted - 2010.12.01 10:02:00 -
[4]
Tier 2 ships are secretly good at pvp. Don't tell me the breacher aint because that's a damn lie and you know it son.
|
Korg Leaf
Time Bandits.
|
Posted - 2010.12.01 10:14:00 -
[5]
Originally by: ImmutableDark Tier 2 ships are secretly good at pvp. Don't tell me the breacher aint because that's a damn lie and you know it son.
I didnt mean they werent good at pvp, just meant that fitting and slot wise as its a tier 2 frigate it will only get given so much. Also I prefer the kestrel over the breacher, got my first ransom in a kestrel.
|
Damar Rocarion
|
Posted - 2010.12.01 10:50:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Korg Leaf Caracal
Caracal is actually pretty awesome ship, I feel the need to say it (1000+ kills with it). Hookbill is also my favourite frigate but i'm sort of looking forward seeing how well good ol' kessie will fare, especially in FW if newer characters start to fly it as it offers pretty nice bang for buck regarding isk/sp requirements.
Also, CCP should fix t2 missiles and rockets. Why should javelin rockets give velocity penalty when javelin ammo does not give it?
D.R
|
Korg Leaf
Time Bandits.
|
Posted - 2010.12.01 11:02:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Korg Leaf on 01/12/2010 11:04:35
Originally by: Damar Rocarion
Originally by: Korg Leaf Caracal
Caracal is actually pretty awesome ship, I feel the need to say it (1000+ kills with it). Hookbill is also my favourite frigate but i'm sort of looking forward seeing how well good ol' kessie will fare, especially in FW if newer characters start to fly it as it offers pretty nice bang for buck regarding isk/sp requirements.
Also, CCP should fix t2 missiles and rockets. Why should javelin rockets give velocity penalty when javelin ammo does not give it?
D.R
The Caracal is a good ship but by fixing it I mean so it can fit HAMS or Heavies with a tank and mwd without needing several fitting mods
edit. also all javelin ammo gives velocity penalties, annoys the crap out of me when I load it and my mwd drake starts puttering along at 700m/s
|
ImmutableDark
|
Posted - 2010.12.01 11:48:00 -
[8]
Sorry the kestrel is in fact a tier 3 frigate sorry everyone. Where is it's web?
|
ImmutableDark
|
Posted - 2010.12.01 11:51:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Fastbikkel I can understand the frustration, but calling CCP losers without hearing their view on this is unfair. I would love to see the maller getting a damage bonus, but that doesnt make me hate CCP. Overall they do a great job i think, looking at how complex it all is.
They wont give their view because it would be so explosive. Try creating a petition about how underpowered caldari ships are they'll have a hard time closing it.
|
Korg Leaf
Time Bandits.
|
Posted - 2010.12.01 12:07:00 -
[10]
Originally by: ImmutableDark Sorry the kestrel is in fact a tier 3 frigate sorry everyone. Where is it's web?
So it is I stand corrected, been a while since I trained the caldari frigate skill
|
|
vorneus
|
Posted - 2010.12.01 12:10:00 -
[11]
Edited by: vorneus on 01/12/2010 12:10:11
Originally by: Korg Leaf Edited by: Korg Leaf on 01/12/2010 11:23:58 The Caracal is a good ship but by fixing it I mean so it can fit HAMS or Heavies with a tank and mwd without needing several fitting mods
The Caracal is perfectly fine.
IMO There's no reason it should be able to fit a full rack of hams or heavies with a tank and mwd without fitting mods. That's what a battlecruiser is for.
Just like a Thorax or Vexor can't fit Neutrons, Rupture can't fit 425mm's, etc etc, without sacrificing plate size tank or introducing fitting mods.
Amarr is a little different because of the arb being a drone boat (which still can't fit a full rack of med. neuts without aforementioned problems, which is pretty much the equivalent), and the Maller well, yeah. You won't be getting much damage outta that anyway.
Just my 2c.
-Ed
|
Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
|
Posted - 2010.12.01 12:22:00 -
[12]
For rocket ships a web is akin to a damage mod.
Tank or gank, same goes for all ships out there (except Angels, 'cause they are *lisp*special*lisp*).
The improved rocket performance is quite noticeable against anything but AB frigs. Then again, the AB frig can be a right nuisance to most ships, so I fail to see the issue.
|
Korg Leaf
Time Bandits.
|
Posted - 2010.12.01 12:25:00 -
[13]
Originally by: vorneus Edited by: vorneus on 01/12/2010 12:10:11
Originally by: Korg Leaf Edited by: Korg Leaf on 01/12/2010 11:23:58 The Caracal is a good ship but by fixing it I mean so it can fit HAMS or Heavies with a tank and mwd without needing several fitting mods
The Caracal is perfectly fine.
IMO There's no reason it should be able to fit a full rack of hams or heavies with a tank and mwd without fitting mods. That's what a battlecruiser is for.
Just like a Thorax or Vexor can't fit Neutrons, Rupture can't fit 425mm's, etc etc, without sacrificing plate size tank or introducing fitting mods.
Amarr is a little different because of the arb being a drone boat (which still can't fit a full rack of med. neuts without aforementioned problems, which is pretty much the equivalent), and the Maller well, yeah. You won't be getting much damage outta that anyway.
Just my 2c.
-Ed
Thing is at the moment the caracal cant fit cruiser weapons without several fitting mods, it isnt just one fitting mod. The thorax,vexor and rupture have no real trouble fitting there weapons (thorax and vexor might not fit neutrons but they can at least fit ions or electrons).
|
Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
|
Posted - 2010.12.01 12:36:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Korg Leaf Thing is at the moment the caracal cant fit cruiser weapons without several fitting mods....
Sure it can. Full rack of heavies goes perfectly together with a MWD. What you seem to want is tank, drive AND weapons all at once which no ship can pull off without serious sacrifices (Ruppie excluded for being FoTM platform). That "at least fit.." line does not seem to appreciate the rather large range/damage hit taken by the Rax/Vex when doing that, nor that they still have to use fitting mods or content themselves with 800 plate buffers.
The only hulls that can fill all checkboxes are faction hulls, which is as it should be in my opinion.
|
Korg Leaf
Time Bandits.
|
Posted - 2010.12.01 12:50:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Korg Leaf on 01/12/2010 12:51:07
Originally by: Hirana Yoshida
Originally by: Korg Leaf Thing is at the moment the caracal cant fit cruiser weapons without several fitting mods....
Sure it can. Full rack of heavies goes perfectly together with a MWD. What you seem to want is tank, drive AND weapons all at once which no ship can pull off without serious sacrifices (Ruppie excluded for being FoTM platform). That "at least fit.." line does not seem to appreciate the rather large range/damage hit taken by the Rax/Vex when doing that, nor that they still have to use fitting mods or content themselves with 800 plate buffers.
The only hulls that can fill all checkboxes are faction hulls, which is as it should be in my opinion.
Sorry I did mean with tank and mwd, but a rack of heavy missile launchers and a microwarpdrive will leave you with a huge 30 or so powergrid to work with to make sure you dont insta pop to the first bs that sniff at you.
Im not sure the vexor really does have huge problems with range due to drones being its main dps and guns really being support dps imo. Thorax on the other hand does have range problems, im not going to deny that but you can fit a decentish tank and medium guns on a thorax without any fitting mods at all.
|
Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
|
Posted - 2010.12.01 14:40:00 -
[16]
Well, the PG on a HM Caracal is a bit of a pain, but it still works okay. At the range that it's supposed to operate it's mainly range-tanking anyway. As it is, you can get a MWD and LSE on with a RCU II, it's not intolerable, especially considering the limitations of its tier counterparts. Something like this is a well-rounded gang DPS- & ewar-support and ECM-suppression platform:
[Caracal, HML] Reactor Control Unit II Ballistic Control System II
Y-T8 MicroWarpdrive I Jobby Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range Balmer Series Tracking Disruptor I, Optimal Range Disruption Balmer Series Tracking Disruptor I, Optimal Range Disruption
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Medium Bay Loading Accelerator I Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I Medium Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I
Warrior II x2
273 DPS (301 DPS with Fury) to 110 km on an agile and reasonably fast ship. The LSE is odd though, you get almost as much EHP using a DC, which then frees up the other lowslot for a BCS:
[Caracal, HML] Damage Control II Ballistic Control System II
Y-T8 MicroWarpdrive I Jobby Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range Balmer Series Tracking Disruptor I, Optimal Range Disruption Balmer Series Tracking Disruptor I, Optimal Range Disruption
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Medium Bay Loading Accelerator I Medium Warhead Rigor Catalyst I Medium Core Defence Field Extender I
Warrior II x2
As for the rocket Kestrel, yeah, you either have to choose between a full-tackle hull/armour-tanked MAX GANK ship, or a webless MSE buffer fit with Flare rigs. The 218 DPS overloaded at 8 km of the max gank version is kinda impressive though, although that's with Rage and obviously you won't get that against an ABing target.
|
NoLimit Soldier
|
Posted - 2010.12.01 14:51:00 -
[17]
The caracal is broken by a LONG shot.
To the person who claims 1000+ kills in one I am assuming these were either fleet kills or frigate kills.
A single caracal, on a gate, can not catch a single thing and kill it besides industrials. It goes toe to toe with other ships in its class (vexor/rupture) it gets face stomped. It ISN'T the best anti-frigate platform. A neut vexor is insanely more anti-frigate. It is given this title because it is the only use anyone has ever found for it.
What is needed to compete: Agility. Make it like the caracal navy. Don't need tank if you can keep your distance. or More Midslots or A utility slot so it can fit a neut.
Shame as the caracal is one of the coolest looking ships in eve. And I kinda understand what CCP wanted with most caldari ships. A fleet of guerrilla HML caracals would be cheap and damn scary but it is just to easy to make money in eve and people would rather fly more expensive things that are more effective.
|
Zyress
|
Posted - 2010.12.01 15:29:00 -
[18]
I can fit a decent tank 5700+ EHP a full rack of Rocket II's and a best name afterburner, with one e-war mod, but yeah got to pick your mod, WD, probably not, Rockets need to be within 10 Km so Scram if you want a point, which you need, maybe he's even got a mwd and you can get a speed advantage but thats not likely, a fleet of 2 or three with different e-war mods on each would of course be ideal, one with the scram, two with a web, or maybe one with a TD.
|
Larton Dretta
|
Posted - 2010.12.01 17:05:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Larton Dretta on 01/12/2010 17:07:13 Rockets don't track and have 10km of range, don't expect miracles in EFT, it's not what CCP lives by. Kestrel has a really good slot layout for a secondary Frigate, if you need the SW, use a 200mm plate, with a MSE you'd need an APC so it's not like you're losing a low slot, you gain a middle slot and you lose a rig slot. And no matter if you're Caldari or Amarr you're going to have Hull Upgrades at level 5 if you're serious about PvP.
Also Caracal is not a brawling ship, with HAMs it'd still have too low DPS and defense, it's what you'd come to expect from the secondary Cruiser in the lineup, that's why CCP gives you a 5 mil and a 3 mil Cruiser.
|
NoLimit Soldier
|
Posted - 2010.12.01 18:26:00 -
[20]
Quote: And no matter if you're Caldari or Amarr you're going to have Hull Upgrades at level 5 if you're serious about PvP
Well that sucks, I thought I was a serious caldari PVPer :(
|
|
X Gallentius
Quantum Cats Syndicate
|
Posted - 2010.12.01 18:44:00 -
[21]
Edited by: X Gallentius on 01/12/2010 18:53:54 /me hates assault missile, massively tanked 30k EHP Caracals. Eats drones and frigates for breakfast.
|
NoLimit Soldier
|
Posted - 2010.12.01 18:53:00 -
[22]
Quote: IMO There's no reason it should be able to fit a full rack of hams or heavies with a tank and mwd without fitting mods. That's what a battlecruiser is for.
Ironically the cookie cutter drake setup uses a fitting mod (PDS)
And to the guy above me saying he fears the AML caracals, fly something bigger than a frigate? Or hell just tell me where you find these ships at because I NEVER see them outside of red vs blue or newbie systems.
|
Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
|
Posted - 2010.12.01 19:05:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Hirana Yoshida on 01/12/2010 19:06:51
Originally by: NoLimit Soldier To the person who claims 1000+ kills in one I am assuming these were either fleet kills or frigate kills....
It may come as a surprise to you, but there are other PvP venues than on a gate or station.
Damar's claim is probably correct as I have seen what he can do with the Assault Caracal in FW. It has damage comparable to a rupture at web range (sans drones) but can apply that damage from 60km out .. and it utterly demolishes anything smaller.
HML Caracal is a stand-off dps machine. Provides a constant stream of damage .. crap for solo in most cases due to fitting constraints but its doable against slower targets (ie. everything with a 1600 plate (minus the Rupture)). Dies too fast when caught which is fairly easy so rarely used. HAM Caracal doesn't exist, never really has. HAM's were made into Khanid weapons in the great missile revision which is the reason for the maddening grid requirement. Demanding that they fit on the Caracal is like demanding that the Omen can fit Heavy Pulse, the Rax fit Neutrons and the Rupture fit .. oh wai...
Caldari, like their gold plated allies, are pack animals. Neither do particularly well when alone but will mess you up like nobodies business in gangs. Accept that simple truth and you will keep your hair for much, much longer.
It is still way too early to say anything about the Kestrel itself. Rockets just got the change, give people a few days/a week to experiment and then start the OMGBUFF-mobile if it is still necessary.
|
X Gallentius
Quantum Cats Syndicate
|
Posted - 2010.12.01 19:14:00 -
[24]
Originally by: NoLimit Soldier And to the guy above me saying he fears the AML caracals, fly something bigger than a frigate? Or hell just tell me where you find these ships at because I NEVER see them outside of red vs blue or newbie systems.
I fear the day when the rest of Caldari militia (Damar/PERVS did a long time ago) wise up and start using Kestrels/Caracals/Drakes to their full advantage. The rest of Eve has already caught on to the Drake...
|
NoLimit Soldier
|
Posted - 2010.12.01 20:25:00 -
[25]
Quote: Caldari, like their gold plated allies, are pack animals. Neither do particularly well when alone but will mess you up like nobodies business in gangs.
But they REALLY won't.
How would 5 rifters be against 5 merlins or kestrels? How about 5 ruptures vs. 5 caracals? 5 spider tanked abbys vs 5 spider tanked ravens? You may have been caldari ganked but under even numbers of the same ship type they will lose most of the time.
How exactly is this gang thing suppose to work again? My point is that low end caldari are support ships and great at being support but all these non-caldari people saying otherwise is a joke.
Outside of the narrow circumstances of ship limited FW plexes where a caracal would be somewhat useful I just can't find a place where some one less stubborn than myself would pick it over the vexor/ruppy.
Caldari have the best T3, the best BC, and the best recon. I'm fine with that. You should be to.
|
X Gallentius
Quantum Cats Syndicate
|
Posted - 2010.12.01 20:36:00 -
[26]
Edited by: X Gallentius on 01/12/2010 20:38:39
Originally by: NoLimit Soldier ....
Spread your ships out, let the other guy run back and forth trying to kill them while you apply constant dps that is not limited by range....
The longer you stay on the field, the more of an advantage you have.
|
NoLimit Soldier
|
Posted - 2010.12.01 20:45:00 -
[27]
Quote: Spread your ships out, let the other guy run back and forth trying to kill them while you apply constant dps that is not limited by range....
And when exactly are you going to do this?
A caracal can't fit HML + tank + MWD.
So either you don't have HML and this won't work. You don't have MWD and this won't work. Or you don't have tanks and will be curb stomped while trying to spread out.
|
X Gallentius
Quantum Cats Syndicate
|
Posted - 2010.12.01 20:57:00 -
[28]
Edited by: X Gallentius on 01/12/2010 20:57:58 30k EHP, 186 dps at any range, 1387 m/s. <---- AML Caracal
Rupture 1591 m/s. So, Rupture makes up 250 m/s = 1 km /4 sec. 25 km in 100 sec.
100 sec * 180 dps = 18,000 damage, 5x Caracals = 90,000 damage. You've lost 3-4 Ruptures by now.
etc....
|
Omara Otawan
|
Posted - 2010.12.01 21:15:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Omara Otawan on 01/12/2010 21:15:30
Originally by: NoLimit Soldier
How would 5 rifters be against 5 merlins or kestrels? How about 5 ruptures vs. 5 caracals? 5 spider tanked abbys vs 5 spider tanked ravens? You may have been caldari ganked but under even numbers of the same ship type they will lose most of the time.
The thing is you arent comparing the same ship types. Not even close.
A proper comparison would be:
rifter vs merlin (merlin can beat rifter, both decent frigs imo) breacher vs kestrel (kestrel wipes floor with breacher tbh) stabber vs caracal (caracal wipes floor with stabber, stabber can run though) armageddon vs raven (spider tank goes to geddon, overall small gang damage projection clearly to raven, and you could prolly replace one of these ravens with a basi anyway)
|
Dorian Tormak
|
Posted - 2010.12.01 23:12:00 -
[30]
The kestrel was a great ship before the rocket buff and it is still great.
[Kestrel, New Setup 1] Ballistic Control System II Micro Auxiliary Power Core I
1MN Afterburner II Warp Scrambler II Medium F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Rocket Launcher II, Thorn Rage Rocket Rocket Launcher II, Thorn Rage Rocket Rocket Launcher II, Thorn Rage Rocket Rocket Launcher II, Thorn Rage Rocket
Small Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I Small Core Defence Field Extender I Small Core Defence Field Extender I
Not sure how good the stats are after the rocket buff but it had great tank and dps before, so it should be a lot better now.
Have fun.
|
|
|
|
|
Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |