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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 15 post(s) |
Joe Skellington
Sarz'na Khumatari The Unthinkables
69
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Posted - 2012.08.10 13:17:00 -
[31] - Quote
As suggested by Erlendur, I will state my thoughts:
I think the icons are a bit big, if they could be reduced in size or given the option to remove them all together (for text only), it would reduce the goddiness of the tooltip as it stands now. Thank you. Please note that ASCII art is not permitted in the forum signatures. Spitfire |
Gilbaron
Free-Space-Ranger Ev0ke
308
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Posted - 2012.08.10 13:19:00 -
[32] - Quote
i wish we could have tooltips (and other functionality) that use the "dogtag" thing i remember from pitbull unitframes in WoW
but since CCP does not want us to have a fully configurable interface we have to run with what we get. i really like the idea of tooltips giving the information they now give. this plus iterations mentioned by soundwave will make my eve life better. thats what really matters. |
Bloodpetal
Mimidae Risk Solutions
772
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Posted - 2012.08.10 13:23:00 -
[33] - Quote
I think the tactical data of modules etc can be some dedicated part of the UI as said above (and I mentioned earlier in an image linked with it).
It would keep the info in a consistent place, make it feel more like a HUD element, etc.
The major obstacle to that at the moment, imho, is just the whole EVE UI is very window pane oriented, so there is no good place to put it really.
My thinking is that the "Drones window" could become something like this. Instead of exclusively for drones (and appearing and disappearing with drones), you can make the drone window have tactical information and then the drone bin for when you want to do the drones as clickable modules. It would be 2 tabs.
Tab A would have tooltip data for modules you're hovering over and other pertinent info perhaps when you aren't tool tipping over a module. Tab B would have the drones bin.
The Pros of this is you have a UI element that doesn't come and go randomly. The Cons of this are that you add a bit of complication to a window, and explaining that cleanly so new people understand what is going on would be important.
You guys are doing a great job on this, thanks for the fast updates and I do like this a lot lot better overall, especially the tooltip distance from the module is cleaner. Mimidae Risk Solutions Recruiting |
Aprudena Gist
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2
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Posted - 2012.08.10 13:24:00 -
[34] - Quote
Why the **** can't i turn this stupid **** off yet? Nuke it from orbit if you have to it just gets in the ******* way. |
Hrett
Justified Chaos
145
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Posted - 2012.08.10 13:32:00 -
[35] - Quote
I like the tweaks here, and some of the suggested ones, but overall I LOVE the feature. With the eleventy-billion types of hybrid ammo that I sometimes carry around for pvp, this is exactly what I need to easily tweak my optimal ranges and proper engagement distances. I would like a timing option though, because I personally prefer them to be instant.
Thanks for the great UI addition and the quick tweaks. I'm probably typing on an iPad, which means the auto-correct is silly and fixing typos is a pain. I ain't fixing them. |
Daneel Trevize
Give my 11percent back
177
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Posted - 2012.08.10 13:33:00 -
[36] - Quote
Re: the OP. I don't see why you can't have delayable module tooltips without impacting the rest. You state all tooltips would become delayed if any did, but surely you can just make a new subclass of tooltip for the modules, and put the delayable code in/for them. You're willing to add configurable delayableness but not derive a 2nd type of dialog that is/isn't delayable?
Another way around would be all tooltips are made delayable, all existing ones run off of a setting of 0 delay, and module ones are a type/take a constructor parameter that runs them off of a 2nd setting which ccp/the user can configure. |
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ISD TYPE40
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
86
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Posted - 2012.08.10 13:36:00 -
[37] - Quote
Non-constructive troll posts removed, thread given a little polish, please post responsibly - ISD Type40. ISD Type40 Ensign Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
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Rek Seven
Probe Patrol Project Wildfire
375
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Posted - 2012.08.10 13:44:00 -
[38] - Quote
Instant pop ups worked fine foe me. It now quicker to right click and show info that it is to wait for the pop-up. That's kind of dump
Please allow use to set the delay to 0 asap. |
FloppieTheBanjoClown
The Skunkworks The Marmite Collective
2192
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Posted - 2012.08.10 13:46:00 -
[39] - Quote
I'd like to see a little more information (cycle time and alpha damage) as well as the tooltip being condensed. The icons are useless fluff that create too much white space, actually making the tooltip take longer to read.
I'd like to see a text-only tip that looks like this:
[Hotkey] Module Name Charge Name Range || Cycle Time Damage || DPS The Skunkworks is recruiting. -áhttps://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1540711#post1540711 |
Elijah Craig
Trask Industries Li3 Federation
42
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Posted - 2012.08.10 13:46:00 -
[40] - Quote
Hey folks - I love the tool tips. The initial 1 second delay is great.
Sure, give folks further customisability if they want to be OCD about it, but I think we are near the defauit which 98% of folks would just take as-is and get on with their lives.
However, I noticed that once I hold for a second and get that great info, I want to then see what the other module tooltips show. By hovering for that initial second, I am mentally wanting to be in 'tooltip mode' and I want to see tool tip info on all modules quickly.
Especially if in combat, seconds are critical. Having to wait for ~each individual module~ to wait out the 1 sec timer is I think an issue.
How about, once that first 1 second pause is done and the tooltip pops up, it should then open immediately over ~all the modules~ until the mouse is taken away from the module area.
Does that make sense? I'm really forgetful, especially in fast combat situations. I want to remind myself of my range and ammo, then scram range, then web range, all quickly before I land on grid, or something. I want to do all that in one swoop across all those relevant modules, as a reassuring reminder of my fit. So I'd wait out the initial 1 second delay and then the tool tip pops up immediately on each module until moved away.
Otherwise it is:
-wait 1 sec- Weapons Info -wait 1 sec- Scram info -wait 1 sec- Web info etc
so at least 3+ seconds in total, which in urgent combat situations when you are warping onto grid to someone's www's to get tackle is... nervewracking :-D
Anyway just my 0.02 ISK |
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Makari Aeron
The Shadow's Of Eve TSOE Consortium
40
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Posted - 2012.08.10 14:05:00 -
[41] - Quote
While I do like the tooltips, I find them to be quite large (height wise) even on a 1920x1200 resolution. A few pieces of information could be placed onto the same line such as the ranges for guns/missiles. I would also recommend making the images 33% smaller (down to 66% of their current size). While I don't particularly find that the images are needed, they do add a nice touch. Though my thoughts on the images could simply be biased from playing the game for a few years. CCP RedDawn: Ugly people are just playing life on HARD mode. Personally, I'm playing on an INFERNO difficulty...
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Viscount Hood
Gallivanting Travel Company Luna Sanguinem
30
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Posted - 2012.08.10 14:05:00 -
[42] - Quote
Seeing the tool-tip for guns is quite useful especially when changing to different ammo or crystals like I do with lasers, however in mid and low rank items it doesn't really give any useful info. I point over to the MWD it says it a mwd, but I know that as I fitted it and having been in the game for some time I know what all the fittings do. So it would be nice to turn some of the tool tips off e.g. like on low and mid slots - is that doable?
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Forum Harlot
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
40
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Posted - 2012.08.10 14:15:00 -
[43] - Quote
The tooltip with its current delay is virtually useless to me. The information I need takes far too long to show up. I kinda found this useful yesterday, now it just shows up when it's already too late.
One hand giveth, the other taketh away? |
Lyron-Baktos
Selective Pressure Rote Kapelle
293
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Posted - 2012.08.10 14:17:00 -
[44] - Quote
love the changes. tool tip is still a tad big though On holiday. -áIn some other world. Where the music of the radio was a labyrinth of sonorous colours. To a bright centre of absolute convicton where the dripping patchouli was more than scent, It was a sun-á |
BoBoZoBo
MGroup9 Quantum Cafe
73
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Posted - 2012.08.10 14:38:00 -
[45] - Quote
Hey Soundwave. Love the idea of the tooltips but yeah, they could use some modifications. You already mentioned a few such as delay, toggle and the need to tighten up the info a bit, as info is too spread out and we dont really need the icons repeated.
One thing I can see off the bat: CONSISTENCY DPS info is great for the weapons, but that "effect" info should be carried out to things like:
- mining/gas laser yield
- ab/mwd final total speed
- salvage/hack/arch access difficulty
- others
Just the effect of the modul's main function that has all ship/rig and implant bonuses taken into account. I think this could help improve the intended purpose of the pop-up tool-tips. Primary Test Subject GÇó SmackTalker Elite |
Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
10019
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Posted - 2012.08.10 14:38:00 -
[46] - Quote
Option to turn it off please. Thank you.
CCP Zulu..... Forcing players to dock at the captain's quarters is a form of what we actually wanted to get through, which is making Incarna a seamless part of the EVE Online experience. |
feihcsiM
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
14
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Posted - 2012.08.10 14:43:00 -
[47] - Quote
CCP Soundwave wrote:Hey everyone
We launched the new tooltips a few days ago and weGÇÖve gotten a lot of feedback. Getting quick access to useful information is pretty awesome and IGÇÖd love to extend this type of functionality to other modules down the road.
There are a few issues we need to deal with though, primarily relating to the speed at which it pops up and the positioning of the box. WeGÇÖre going to add two things today: First of all, weGÇÖre going to add a one second delay when hovering over modules, so the pop-up is less intrusive. Secondly, weGÇÖre going to move the tooltip away from the module you hover over. These two changes should make the feature more useful and hopefully less intrusive for the players that are not interested in constantly seeing the tooltip.
Other changes weGÇÖre looking at:
Global tooltip delay setting: This would be an option to set a global delay to ALL tooltips, somewhere in the 0-3 second range. It would be located in the escape menu and is in my opinion the ideal solution. The downside is that it will affect a lot of different tooltips and making sure it works correctly across the game takes a bit of time.
Disabling tooltips completely. This would basically be a button that lets you disable all tooltips in the game by selecting it. That means no more stuff popping up anywhere, giving you a cleaner UI if you feel the tips aren't helpful anymore.
Re-vamping the size and content of the window. IGÇÖm wondering if we shouldnGÇÖt condense the gun and ammo part of the tooltip into a better format, so the tooltip still contains the same information, but takes up less space.
Disabling the module tooltip only. Adding an option to disable a single type of window isn't the best solution. We already have a myriad of options regarding the HUD and adding another one isn't really ideal. This is really using a chainsaw on the problem and while it definitely remains an option, it's certainly the least attractive one. If the more graceful solutions aren't enough though, we can revert to this.
Anyway, the delay and position change is being implemented today. Feedback is appreciated while we consider the longer term options.
Awesome, thanks for the quick patch!
Also, I just can't read a Soundwave post without it being in his icelandic accent...
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Aprudena Gist
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2
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Posted - 2012.08.10 14:43:00 -
[48] - Quote
ISD TYPE40 wrote:Non-constructive troll posts removed, thread given a little polish, please post responsibly - ISD Type40. **** you my post was construction this UI **** sucks and gets in the way and the only way to improve it is to remove it. |
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ISD TYPE40
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
98
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Posted - 2012.08.10 15:23:00 -
[49] - Quote
Thread cleaned again. Please note that personal attacks and foul language are in breach of the forum rules. In future please remain on topic and post responsibly - ISD Type40. ISD Type40 Ensign Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
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Murashu
Phoibe Enterprises
54
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Posted - 2012.08.10 15:32:00 -
[50] - Quote
I love having the data that the tooltips now provide and the delay helps make them less annoying for people who donGÇÖt want to see them.
My biggest issue with the entire UI is the lack of uniformity in how the info is displayed. I know different Devs work on different areas of the UI and it is quite apparent when you look at each of the different parts of the UI.
When CCP Optimal removed the date from the Neocom he said it was GÇ£because we don't feel that the information being displayed is important enough to justify taking up valuable screen space.GÇ¥ (Screw the folks who donGÇÖt live in Iceland) When they finally got around to adding it back they made it a tooltip, an extremely compact tooltip. Hover your mouse over the time and compare the date tooltip to the new ones released this week. Although it still annoys the hell out of me that just because CCP Optimal doesnGÇÖt care what day it is in game and I now have to take extra steps when creating WH bookmarks, I do think the new date tooltip should be the standard for all in game tooltips. There are no wasted spaces before or after the text, no extra line spaces, just the info you need.
The other issue is all the hidden menus. Most people know when they press ESC they can see most of the setting options, but many people have no clue about the hidden menus in the fleet window, drone window, inventory window, chat window, the overview, IGÇÖm drawing a blank on what to call it but thereGÇÖs another hidden menu near your capacitor/shield/armor/hull readout, and I'm sure I'm missiing others since I'm at work and can't look at my screen. You have all of these different areas that you can adjust your game settings and each one looks different than the other and works in different ways.
I would love to see you guys go thru all the options/settings/tooltips and come up with a common format that works for most of the windows. We know one format wonGÇÖt work for everything, but they could be much more standardized than they are now.
Again great job on the tooltips so far.
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Rroff
The Xenodus Initiative. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
26
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Posted - 2012.08.10 15:59:00 -
[51] - Quote
Oh nice the delay means they don't distractingly popup when I'm quickly swapping between modules and which locked ship/item has focus :D customizable delay would be nice as it is they could popup just a little quicker for me when I need the data on them but still long enough delay they don't popup when I don't want them to.
Great job so far tho and nice to see such a quick response to sorting the immediate problem I was having with them. |
Mishra Ninghor
The Scarlet Storm
6
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Posted - 2012.08.10 16:31:00 -
[52] - Quote
Seeing devs communicate this directly with players is truely wonderful. xD
Though yes, adjustable tooltip delay, compacted tooltip or showing on GUI, all great. Current implementation needs some work but seeing devs working to find solutions and listening to ideas like this is really reassuring.
As a side note, missile "optimal" range is quite far off from reality because it doesn't travel in a straight line and needs some time to get going. For torps for instance 39,5km does in practice turn in to something like 32-33 km. For me I know this is just the way it is, but if the intention is to help newer players then it wouldn't hurt to communicate this mechanic in a better way. |
Jim Era
The Syndicate Inc En Garde
499
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Posted - 2012.08.10 16:54:00 -
[53] - Quote
Please, please disable it. Since I heard about the new tooltips, I haven't even logged in due to fear of seeing them and biomassing. Let me know when they are fixed, and I'll be back in action. |
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CCP karkur
C C P C C P Alliance
1235
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Posted - 2012.08.10 16:59:00 -
[54] - Quote
Jim Era wrote:Please, please disable it. Since I heard about the new tooltips, I haven't even logged in due to fear of seeing them and biomassing. Let me know when they are fixed, and I'll be back in action. Wow, you are easily scared (not sure if serious though) Don't be scared, they are not evil... log in and give them a try and at check out for yourself it they really will ruin your game CCP karkur | User Interface Programmer | Team Avatar | @CCP_karkur |
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Jim Era
The Syndicate Inc En Garde
499
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Posted - 2012.08.10 17:09:00 -
[55] - Quote
I refuse, saw screenshots of how clunky and huge they were, I just don't even want to deal with them (got a long skill in que I think) *not like I am capable of doing anything in-game anyways :P
I don't mind tooltips, they are actually helpful, especially when detailed, but these were over the top, more black space than information...which the information provided wasn't that useful :/ annnnd I hate to admit it, but I hate using my Fkeys, so I frequently mouse my modules so they would pop up and confuse the hell out of me. Couldn't the tooltip just be along the lines of the "show info' options |
Krann
Space Narwhals
0
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Posted - 2012.08.10 17:11:00 -
[56] - Quote
Krann wrote:With the new module tooltips is there a way to turn them off?
CCP Explorer wrote:We updated the new module button tooltips today, Friday, in Inferno 1.2.2, based on your feedback. Please find information on the new and updated tooltips in this post from CCP Soundwave: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=142498We'd love to hear your feedback on today's update in that thread.
Love the delay, thanks for the work. |
Ione Hawke
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
20
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Posted - 2012.08.10 17:25:00 -
[57] - Quote
CCP Soundwave wrote:Hey everyone
(snip)
Other changes weGÇÖre looking at:
[A] Global tooltip delay setting: This would be an option to set a global delay to ALL tooltips, somewhere in the 0-3 second range. It would be located in the escape menu and is in my opinion the ideal solution. The downside is that it will affect a lot of different tooltips and making sure it works correctly across the game takes a bit of time.
[.B] Disabling tooltips completely. This would basically be a button that lets you disable all tooltips in the game by selecting it. That means no more stuff popping up anywhere, giving you a cleaner UI if you feel the tips aren't helpful anymore.
[C] Re-vamping the size and content of the window. IGÇÖm wondering if we shouldnGÇÖt condense the gun and ammo part of the tooltip into a better format, so the tooltip still contains the same information, but takes up less space.
[D] Disabling the module tooltip only. Adding an option to disable a single type of window isn't the best solution. We already have a myriad of options regarding the HUD and adding another one isn't really ideal. This is really using a chainsaw on the problem and while it definitely remains an option, it's certainly the least attractive one. [b]If the more graceful solutions aren't enough though, we can revert to this.
Anyway, the delay and position change is being implemented today. Feedback is appreciated while we consider the longer term options.
(added letters to original post to be able to refer) Just my quick opinion In general I like the tooltips.
A: dont really care, 1 or 2s delay should be fine.
B: seems like shooting at mosquito with a bazooka. otoh, after quickly reviewing where tooltips are displayed. In most places the tooltip doesnt really seem to add anything and just displays redundant info for the veteran player. (stuff like "Fitting" when you hover over the fitting icon, not particular useful). Being able to see wallet balance in tooltip and the new module tooltips seem to be some of the few places with relevant info in the tooltip. Perhaps an "enable expert tooltips" option that disables all tooltips that just give the function name (+shortcut, you can look those up in shortcut configuration menu after all) would make for a cleaner overall UI. Alternatively an "enable newbie tooltips" :) option that causes all tooltips to display some more information might be useful too.
C: awesome, more condense info in smaller space is win!
D: meh, not ideal for reasons you mention. |
Angerlach Ferr
Dopehead Industries Broken Chains Alliance
0
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Posted - 2012.08.10 18:01:00 -
[58] - Quote
"Disabling the module tooltip only."
... this may seem like a "chainsaw" approach from your perspective but I sure would like to have the option to disable it
(I admit to being an old player who liked a lot of stuff the way it was... many of the new things seem to me as "fixes" of stuff that wasn't broken... for example the new inventory... where I really thin the new tree is great, but I am missing the tabs VERY MUCH - and to be able to search within cans was sometihng much more needed regarding inventory than mch of what was done in it... in fact when I heard of the "new inventory" I was actually expecting a revamp on the Assets... not what I got :-P ) |
Arec Bardwin
Perkone Caldari State
700
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Posted - 2012.08.10 18:13:00 -
[59] - Quote
A lot of constructive suggestions in this thread!
This has probably already been mentioned, but turret tracking is just as informative as optimal/falloff, especially when TDed. |
Panhead4411
Rothschild's Sewage and Septic Sucking Services The Possum Lodge
201
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Posted - 2012.08.10 18:42:00 -
[60] - Quote
CCP Soundwave wrote: Re-vamping the size and content of the window. IGÇÖm wondering if we shouldnGÇÖt condense the gun and ammo part of the tooltip into a better format, so the tooltip still contains the same information, but takes up less space.
This was the biggest complaint i saw in most of the threads...it more or less blotted out most of the module it was popping up for and then most of the rest of the modules on your hud. And again, some of the issue is it is repeating info already displayed on gun/launcher (ammo type and amount)
The current delay was not the solution. It takes sooo long trying to see crystal dmg now.
Moving the tooltip to ABOVE the module...that helped alot, it got it out of the way.
Now can you please get rid of all the fancy pictures and just give us the info...we don't tooltip to see a picture of the module icon we are mousing over...we tooltip to see INFO...not pictures. http://blog.beyondreality.se/shift-click-does-nothing -á-á < Unified Inventory is NOT ready... |
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