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Boomhowler
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Posted - 2010.12.03 17:40:00 -
[1]
Is only flying frigates a viable way to enjoy a majority of the content of EVE?
In real life I cater to the bigger is better view of things, but in EVE I currently have no desire to fly anything larger than a frigate. Though I can fly a BC, I donÆt really like the giant lumbering ships.
I know I need bigger than a frigate to complete level 3+ missions, but for now I am enjoying NPC ratting, and will eventually join a player corp (I know I should have by now).
Can I survive low/null sec and player corp ôstuffö (whatever that entails) with mainly frigate skills?
Initially I want to gear my SP towards being the best frigate pilot I can be and am wondering if this is something attractive to either player corps or usable for 0.0 pirating / rat hunting.
Thanks for reading.
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Culmen
Caldari Blood Phage Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.12.03 17:50:00 -
[2]
PVP wise, the only place frigs aren't welcomed is in Low Sec Piracy.
Even a sniper fleets usually need some poor shmuck to fly up to the enemy with a warp disruptor.
Eve being a sand box doesn't have a "majority of the content"
But for alot of the PVE content... You'll have serious issues dealing enough damage to complete higher level missions within a reasonable time frame, also stasis webifiers+warp scramblers will get you killed. You won't be able to haul large quantities of anything without Industrial Ships. Mining is also out because of it's reliance on specialized ships or specially fitted battleships.
Because you'll have cash flow problems, you might find yourself running out of isk to fit and ships.
You'll also quickly run out of skills to train...
Sometimes I think everyone goes through a "I'll fly only frigates" phase, most people grow out of it. Don't ignore cruiser/battlecruiser warfare until you've tried it. and further more why do i even need a sig? |
Merouk Baas
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.12.03 17:50:00 -
[3]
The answer lies in "whatever that entails" heh.
Low and null sec are all about PVP, and for null-sec wars there's a need for capital ships and battleships/battlecruisers in order to have the serious DPS needed to counter what the enemy will throw at you, or to take out sov. units. If lowsec corps/alliances are recruiting, that's what they'll primarily recruit for.
However, there is a need for active pilots that can tackle, scout, probe, and/or be part of smaller cov-ops operations (stealth bomber squadrons, recon ops, etc.) so you may be able to find something to do even if you limit yourself to frigates.
The problem is, T1 frigates are cheap, but cov-ops, interceptors, and stealth bombers do cost a bit, and fitting them with T2 modules and rigs so you're competitive will cost money. Ratting in 0.0 is profitable, but requires the DPS of a battleship pretty much. So the question is, how will you pay for your PVP losses if all you have is PVP frigates?
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Doravos
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Posted - 2010.12.03 17:55:00 -
[4]
A well fitted t1 frig can solo most level 3 missions quite easily. I know I do.
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Jennifer Starling
Amarr
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Posted - 2010.12.03 18:10:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Doravos A well fitted t1 frig can solo most level 3 missions quite easily. I know I do.
My Jaguar can solo all L3 missions, although some take a while (blockade)! Even a number of L4s are viable but they take very long - your DPS simply is too low.
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Ava Starfire
Minmatar Nordanverdr Modr
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Posted - 2010.12.03 18:15:00 -
[6]
I have run level 3s in a rifter, though a jag or wolf is better, and I have run level 4s in both a jag and wolf, though if you like "small and fast" a vaga makes level 4s great, without being a slow fat barge. I rat in 0.0 in a wolf on a regular basis. And i fly frigates 99% of the time for Pvp. Yep, cruisers and BCs open up a lot of doors, but frigs are just too much fun.
In short, yes you can. Gangs always need tacklers, especially good ones.
Dirty Little Slave, reporting for duty! |
Ard UnjiiGo
The Tuskers
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Posted - 2010.12.03 19:35:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Culmen PVP wise, the only place frigs aren't welcomed is in Low Sec Piracy.
This is just entirely wrong.
You can be a successful Pirate and fly only frigs. You'll just have to choose your targets carefully. Many of our pilots fly frig class ships primarily with the ability to ship up when needed.
Flying frigs as a pirate is very cost effective. That's why it's very welcome in low-sec piracy.
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hjgjgfgfgsj
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Posted - 2010.12.03 19:37:00 -
[8]
You're minmatar aren't you? Just use a stabber! float like butterfly sting like bee, right? Faster than a lot of frigates (even without a nano) and does pretty decent dps. Train for a vagabond or use a stabber fleet issue.
If you aren't minmatar then you CAN use a frigate but tbh youll be better off using a speed fit cruiser. frigates IMO are for learning to pvp and that's that. even in an assault ship, the only cruiser you can kill are fail fit ones. No point in arguing it as it is the truth.
But if you want then do it, fly with your gangs in the frig of your choosing and get on all the KMs.
Thats my idea.
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Culmen
Caldari Blood Phage Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.12.03 20:12:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Ard UnjiiGo
Originally by: Culmen PVP wise, the only place frigs aren't welcomed is in Low Sec Piracy.
This is just entirely wrong.
You can be a successful Pirate and fly only frigs. You'll just have to choose your targets carefully. Many of our pilots fly frig class ships primarily with the ability to ship up when needed.
Flying frigs as a pirate is very cost effective. That's why it's very welcome in low-sec piracy.
I'll rephrase that. The only place frigates aren't welcome is Low Sec Pirate Gate Camps. Where sentry guns insta pop frigates. and further more why do i even need a sig? |
Joe Starbreaker
M. Corp
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Posted - 2010.12.03 20:20:00 -
[10]
Long story short, it's a voluntary challenge like playing Nethack as a vegetarian. It would be difficult, but if you're clever, you'll rise to the challenge by finding alternative ways to make ISK, such as station trading, or trading/hauling small high-value objects, or running a business on courier contracts.
...
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ElJo123
Sons Of 0din Chain of Chaos
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Posted - 2010.12.03 21:31:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Ard UnjiiGo
Originally by: Culmen PVP wise, the only place frigs aren't welcomed is in Low Sec Piracy.
This is just entirely wrong.
You can be a successful Pirate and fly only frigs. You'll just have to choose your targets carefully. Many of our pilots fly frig class ships primarily with the ability to ship up when needed.
Flying frigs as a pirate is very cost effective. That's why it's very welcome in low-sec piracy.
Confirming this.
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Drakarin
Gallente Absentia Libertas Solus
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Posted - 2010.12.03 21:58:00 -
[12]
While the context does vary a lot, in general this is how it goes:
For execution of primarily Player Versus Environment endeavors, a strong shield adaptive tank with a moderate to larger ship is far superior. (BC and BS).
Performing any sort of pirate action against players, on the other hand, requires speed, agility and flexibility in medium slot modules. Thus the most effective method to PvP is in small to medium sized vessels using an armor tank. Not too thick, however, as this would reduce your mobility.
Large ships in PvP, here and there, are not denied due to their somewhat higher dps (even a small T1 Rifter can deal a mighty dent).
I tend to agree that larger ships don't feel like the floating fortresses they should. They don't look the part (if nothing more their size in relation to smaller ships should be increased) and don't really pack that much more of a punch.
I completely understand the importance of balance and in respect to this, small ships should not be useless in PvP. They aren't. As tacklers I am in total accordance. As damage dealers, that's where I draw the line. A small frigate or cruiser taking on a battleship is beyond preposterous (this isn't real life since here we have warp core reactors powering nanobot shields). A small ship in real life can take out bigger ships because they're simply made of fairly weak metal. One or two missiles // torpedo's is all it takes to do the job.
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Lost Greybeard
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Posted - 2010.12.03 22:21:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Merouk Baas
The problem is, T1 frigates are cheap, but cov-ops, interceptors, and stealth bombers do cost a bit, and fitting them with T2 modules and rigs so you're competitive will cost money. Ratting in 0.0 is profitable, but requires the DPS of a battleship pretty much. So the question is, how will you pay for your PVP losses if all you have is PVP frigates?
A "fully t2 fit" (m4 launchers, actual t2 is for noobs) Stealth Bomber costs 20m - 30m, depending on the day, and can rat in 0.0 just fine. Its dps is more like that of a DPS BC than a BS, but it works. And all you have to do to go from PvE mode to PvP mode is swap ammo.
Most interceptors run 9-10m before fittings, and don't really need t2 fittings beyond guns. That's an absolutely trivial amount of isk that you could easily make up even with piracy.
Many of the AFs are more than sufficient to run L3 missions, which come out to 4 or 5 million per and carry no real risk, so you can defray their cost very rapidly.
As for a cov-ops of the non-SB variety, it doesn't matter how much one costs, because there is no reason for you to ever die in one. Ever. You have no reason whatsoever to de-cloak in targeting range of another ship.
The cost and return on investment of the t2 frigates is very comparable to that of the t1 cruisers, i.e. it's not a big deal. ---
If you outlaw tautologies, only outlaws will have tautologies. ~Anonymous |
Magnus Orin
Minmatar United Systems Navy Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2010.12.03 23:40:00 -
[14]
I can appreciate where you are coming from. An I felt very much the same when I started Eve.
Your attitude is a good one as well. It is best to focus on frigates to start, and master them before moving on.
But in Eve, ships are like the tools in a carpenter's toolbelt.
You would never see a carpenter asking if he could build the majority of a house with a screw driver would he?
Different jobs in Eve, require the use of different ships and ship classes.
Sometimes you need frigates to tackle, or speed tank a complex/anomaly.
Sometimes you need a recon to get that cyno into hostile turf.
Sometimes you need a HAC to harass the alliance next door.
Sometimes you need a Battleship to generate reasonable amounts of isk in a short time.
Sometimes you need a Carrier to help defend your Sov
Sometimes you need a Supercarrier to help defend your carriers.
And so on.
Frigates are cool, and will always be useful for the job they do. And you can be a very successful pilot in a specialized frigate role (Stealth Bomber comes to mind from a 0.0 perspective), but there will always come a time when you need the right tool for the job. Sarcasm - Because i'm too far away to strangle you. |
Justinius Augustus
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Posted - 2010.12.04 04:07:00 -
[15]
I'm glad somebody asked this question, because I'd been wondering the same thing. Though it's really difficult for me to fathom at this point how you could really do much productive missioning in a frigate. I've taken exactly two L2 kill missions and had to beg for help each time (and in one, I think I was actually flying my destroyer--a Coercer--which does more DPS than my Punisher by a large order of magnitude). That said, I love that my Punisher does about 850 m/s and has almost no problems with running out of capacitor. I'd love to be able to fly ships this fast throughout my EVE career.
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Mara Rinn
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Posted - 2010.12.04 05:23:00 -
[16]
If "frigates" includes "T2 frigates of all varieties" there's no reason why you couldn't enjoy everything EVE has to offer! -- [Aussie players: join ANZAC channel] |
Sergei Le'Poof
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Posted - 2010.12.04 05:40:00 -
[17]
Something else not mentined is that frigs can provide better income than battleships in hi sec can. Stealth bombers are excellent 0.0 ratting ships(with salvager in the bomb launcher slot) and furthermore they can be the avenue to one of the top earners in the game, FW L4 missions.
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gfldex
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Posted - 2010.12.04 05:43:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Justinius Augustus my Punisher
Punisher can solo most lvl3 missions. The questions is if it's worth to fly a 800M frig, when a Drake with lolskills will get the job done 3x as fast and without exploding to a random disconnect.
Assault frigs work quite well against belt rats. You get even a reasonable speed if the frig fits to the NPCs. But again, a lolskill HAM Drake will get the job done twice as fast and with less tears.
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August Persona
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Posted - 2010.12.04 05:47:00 -
[19]
Originally by: gfldex
Originally by: Justinius Augustus my Punisher
Punisher can solo most lvl3 missions. The questions is if it's worth to fly a 800M frig, when a Drake with lolskills will get the job done 3x as fast and without exploding to a random disconnect.
I may be misunderstanding something. A Punisher costs about 200,000 ISK. Are you talking about one of the variants all tricked out?
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gfldex
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Posted - 2010.12.04 06:14:00 -
[20]
Originally by: August Persona I may be misunderstanding something. A Punisher costs about 200,000 ISK. Are you talking about one of the variants all tricked out?
Given that players lose ships fitted with 18BISK, 800M ain't all that much. :)
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Justinius Augustus
August Enterprises
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Posted - 2010.12.04 07:18:00 -
[21]
Originally by: gfldex
Originally by: August Persona I may be misunderstanding something. A Punisher costs about 200,000 ISK. Are you talking about one of the variants all tricked out?
Given that players lose ships fitted with 18BISK, 800M ain't all that much. :)
Granted, I'm newish, but even though it's, perhaps, not unimaginable that somebody could spend that much fitting a Punisher, I just wonder why they wouldn't use a tougher, more versatile ship instead, like the Vengeance. As long as you're spending millions upon millions of ISK, that is.
I'd actually be curious to see a fitting for a Punisher that would cost 800 million. Again, not saying it's unbelievable, but my interest is piqued as to how you would do it.
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Jennifer Starling
Amarr
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Posted - 2010.12.04 10:38:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Justinius Augustus I'd actually be curious to see a fitting for a Punisher that would cost 800 million. Again, not saying it's unbelievable, but my interest is piqued as to how you would do it.
It's not that hard, just fit useful deadspace stuff:
Corpii A-Type Small Armor Repairer Chelm's Modified Heat Sink Pith X-Type mission specific hardeners
and so on.
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Avo Daith
Public Venture Enterprises
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Posted - 2010.12.04 12:18:00 -
[23]
I would dispute that battlecruisers are lumbering. If you've tried them with low skills they might appear so, but a Hurricane, for instance, with good skills is far from being so, IMHO. It's certainly possible to stay under battleship size ships throughout Eve, for PVE and PVP alike. I wouldn't restrict yourself to frigate size all the time, though.
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gfldex
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Posted - 2010.12.04 19:41:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Justinius Augustus
Granted, I'm newish, but even though it's, perhaps, not unimaginable that somebody could spend that much fitting a Punisher, I just wonder why they wouldn't use a tougher, more versatile ship instead, like the Vengeance. As long as you're spending millions upon millions of ISK, that is.
Ofc, you will find better ships to get the job done. But if the task is to stay with frigs, no matter what the task at hand is, you left the realm of reason already.
Originally by: Justinius Augustus
Again, not saying it's unbelievable, but my interest is piqued as to how you would do it.
[Punisher, New Setup 1] Centii A-Type Small Armor Repairer True Sansha Capacitor Power Relay Centum A-Type Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane <--- 730MISK Centum A-Type Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane <--- 730MISK
Gistii A-Type 1MN Afterburner True Sansha Cap Recharger
True Sansha Medium Pulse Laser, Dark Blood Multifrequency S True Sansha Medium Pulse Laser, Dark Blood Multifrequency S True Sansha Medium Pulse Laser, Dark Blood Multifrequency S [empty high slot]
Small Capacitor Control Circuit I Small Auxiliary Nano Pump II Small Auxiliary Nano Pump II
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Joe Starbreaker
M. Corp
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Posted - 2010.12.04 20:21:00 -
[25]
All these things are possible. There's no reason why you couldn't run level 3 or even 4 missions with an Assault Frigate. The point is, though, you still wouldn't be earning ISK as well as if you just went with a cheap battleship. So why are you doing it? Fun? Not missions!
I would look for an alternative way of making ISK, for example ninja salvaging, or trading skillbooks, or sneaking blueprints into NPC 0.0 to research them and selling the upgraded-ME versions. Or some sort of frigate-piracy or frigate-mercenary work.
Running high-level missions in a T2 frigate is as somebody said, like trying to build a house with a screwdriver. Maybe fun to do it once just to prove something to yourself, but certainly not how you'd want to make a living.
...
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Stgofi
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.12.04 22:42:00 -
[26]
I fly only frigate-sized ships in pvp
I find it a lot more fun than a sluggish boomship
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Eastman Color
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Posted - 2010.12.06 11:38:00 -
[27]
Yes you can
People always love a tackler. You can rat bs's in low/0.0 in a stealth bomber
Most of the skills you'll build up while flying frigs will transfer to larger ships.
Go for it, have fun, make some people cry
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Ranzabar
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Posted - 2010.12.07 03:02:00 -
[28]
Yeah, you can. But you'll get bored over time I think. Why limit yourself at this stage?
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Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2010.12.07 03:10:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Kahega Amielden on 07/12/2010 03:12:00
Quote:
This is just entirely wrong.
You can be a successful Pirate and fly only frigs. You'll just have to choose your targets carefully. Many of our pilots fly frig class ships primarily with the ability to ship up when needed.
Flying frigs as a pirate is very cost effective. That's why it's very welcome in low-sec piracy.
Piracy and PVP are different. With frigates you are almost exclusively engaging targets that want to fight, which isn't really piracy.
OP: There are several good income options available to frigate pilots. Exploration (especially radar/magnetometric sites) in lowsec are very doable in AFs and very profitable.
Flying frigates is very viable. I fly them almost exclusively.
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Kais N'ktal
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Posted - 2010.12.07 03:43:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Eastman Color Yes you can
People always love a tackler. You can rat bs's in low/0.0 in a stealth bomber
Most of the skills you'll build up while flying frigs will transfer to larger ships.
Go for it, have fun, make some people cry
Just curious, what tactics do you use for null-sec ratting, I've been told be a few corp mates to not bother. Is it because I don't have maxxed out skills or is it just a particular tactic?
P.S I can use SBs with T1 fittings (aside from cloak) so T1 torps and bombs
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