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Moleculor
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2010.12.04 20:59:00 -
[1]
Ok, so I'm experimenting with manufacturing of P2 products, and all these factories require two inputs rather than one.
I just ran my first test batch, and I've discovered something rather irritating...
When everything finished, I ended up with two factories filled (to 100%) with one kind of input and two factories filled with the other kind of input. Meaning that if both inputs had ended up in the same factory, I would have had two more cycles of those factories completed, and instead all the goods are "useless" until I resupply both.
So I'm guessing there's some sort of internal logic to how routes are sorted, and how goods are routed. Is there something that I could be doing to make it so that all goods are funneled in one direction, rather than split two ways?
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Brock Nelson
Caldari T2 Technologies Unlimited SRS.
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Posted - 2010.12.04 21:45:00 -
[2]
So...cut down the oversupply of one type of material? Remove that extractor and put in another extractor for the material that you're lacking.
Originally by: Brock Nelson OP's question is translated as: Help, I'm a female stuck in a man's body, can Incarna help?
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Yarrow Naritus
Caldari Capsuleer Science and Supply
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Posted - 2010.12.04 21:54:00 -
[3]
I just started P2 about a week ago. On one of my planets I have two P1 and two P2 factories, the extractors, storage, and spaceport. Everything links to the storage tank, so Extractor->tank->P1->tank->P2->Spaceport.
Make sure you create a route from item 1 to each factory, and from item 2 to each factory.
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Moleculor
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2010.12.04 22:09:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Brock Nelson So...cut down the oversupply of one type of material? Remove that extractor and put in another extractor for the material that you're lacking.
I don't have oversupply. I don't even have extractors. Read?
Originally by: Yarrow Naritus I just started P2 about a week ago. On one of my planets I have two P1 and two P2 factories, the extractors, storage, and spaceport. Everything links to the storage tank, so Extractor->tank->P1->tank->P2->Spaceport.
Make sure you create a route from item 1 to each factory, and from item 2 to each factory.
Yeah, I already know that storage needs to be the beginning and end. Storage has nothing to do with what I was asking about.
===
Ok, apparently people are confused, so I'm going to break this down further:
I have 20,000,000,000 factories. They need milk and magic to make cheese. Ok?
I supplied massive amounts of milk and magic, and left for the day. When I came back, all the factories were done making cheese from milk and magic except for four: Two had exactly enough milk to make cheese, but no magic, and two had exactly enough magic to make cheese but no milk.
I can't move the milk from one factory, and I can't move the magic from the other. Obviously I'll need to supply more of both to fix my CURRENT problem, but how do I prevent the goods (in this case milk and magic) from getting split up like this in the future? If the routes had been sane, the milk and magic would have all gone to the same two factories, instead of being split amongst four.
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Brock Nelson
Caldari T2 Technologies Unlimited SRS.
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Posted - 2010.12.04 22:19:00 -
[5]
What happens is that when all of the factory's queue is filled up with both input material, it begins production. However, whatever's left over from wherever the material came from will be routed to a random factory.
Let say you have 5 factory, each require 1 milk, 1 cheese. You put 7 cheese and 6 milk in the storage to be routed to each of those 5 factory. So when the cycle begins, 5 cheese and 5 milk gets consumed by 5 factory. The leftover 2 cheese and 1 milk will be routed to a random factory.
What you could do is instead, put enough milk and cheese in the storage or launchpad to fill up all of the factory when a new cycle begins. In this case, 10 cheese, 10 milk.
Originally by: Brock Nelson OP's question is translated as: Help, I'm a female stuck in a man's body, can Incarna help?
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Tau Cabalander
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.12.04 22:27:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Brock Nelson What you could do is instead, put enough milk and cheese in the storage or launchpad to fill up all of the factory when a new cycle begins. In this case, 10 cheese, 10 milk.
This works for me. I have a planet with 21 processors and 2 spaceports, so I fill it with multiples of 21 * 40, typically 21 * 40 * 30 = 25,200 (for 30 cycles worth).
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Dharh
Gallente Ace Adventure Corp
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Posted - 2010.12.04 23:53:00 -
[7]
To solve this, and it's complicated enough you probably should just deal with it, is to stagger factory starts so that all your factories are not grabbing for resources at the same time. Thus only one factory will be grabbing for resources at a time. However this cane get tedious setting up cause of the submit lockout timer.
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Moleculor
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2010.12.05 02:58:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Tau Cabalander
Originally by: Brock Nelson What you could do is instead, put enough milk and cheese in the storage or launchpad to fill up all of the factory when a new cycle begins. In this case, 10 cheese, 10 milk.
This works for me. I have a planet with 21 processors and 2 spaceports, so I fill it with multiples of 21 * 40, typically 21 * 40 * 30 = 25,200 (for 30 cycles worth).
This is exactly what I did do, all the factories filled up with 100% of the material they needed. The problem is that ALL of one material went one way, and ALL of the other material went the other way. (I say for the third time.)
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Clown Pron
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Posted - 2010.12.05 03:17:00 -
[9]
Perhaps you should draw a diagram because you're not making any sense
Go back to WoW or something
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Sturmwolke
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Posted - 2010.12.05 03:26:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Clown Pron Perhaps you should draw a diagram because you're not making any sense
Go back to WoW or something
OP doesn't like a half-completed cycle which hangs waiting for an empty buffer for one of the input P1 product for a P2 chain. He's probably batching them exactly to fit. Inane micro imo, but hey, some folks like doing it. |
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Greg Huff
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Posted - 2010.12.05 03:55:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Greg Huff on 05/12/2010 03:55:53 The same thing happens on my planets. I have no idea what determines which factory grabs resources first when they are all cycling at the same time. You could play around with the order you define the links and routes to see if that has anything to do with it.
btw... Your original post made perfect sense.
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Moleculor
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2010.12.05 03:57:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Moleculor on 05/12/2010 04:01:39 Edited by: Moleculor on 05/12/2010 03:59:45
Originally by: Clown Pron Perhaps you should draw a diagram because you're not making any sense
Go back to WoW or something
I can't see how this is difficult to understand. I've explained it in three different ways.
But fine. If you really need *pictures*...
To belabor the obvious, in case people can't tell, do you see how the left hand bars on the bottom factories are full, and the right hand bars are empty, whereas the upper factories are reversed? That means if the bottom factories' raw materials were in the top factories (or vice versa), I'd have output from two more factories than I currently have.
This is after *carefully measured* amounts of raw materials. This is after several hours of all the factories (not just these four) running. What's left is enough material to run two factories again/still, but it's been split badly between the four factories. I would like this to not happen in the future.
None of my routes' transport values were altered from the default maxiumum values, in case someone brilliant is going to suggest I did that next.
Originally by: Greg Huff Edited by: Greg Huff on 05/12/2010 03:55:53 The same thing happens on my planets. I have no idea what determines which factory grabs resources first when they are all cycling at the same time. You could play around with the order you define the links and routes to see if that has anything to do with it.
btw... Your original post made perfect sense.
Thank you. Glad to see someone 'round here has brains. I'm beginning to suspect that the folks who haven't figured it out yet probably don't even do PI or something like that. Or they don't know the answer to what they realize I'm asking, so they're hoping it's a different question and trying random answers, hoping to look smart or something.
I'm thinking I'll just have to try my original idea. I just didn't want to have to spend even more time resetting all my routes *again* for a "this <i>might</i> work". *sighs*
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Brock Nelson
Caldari T2 Technologies Unlimited SRS.
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Posted - 2010.12.05 04:01:00 -
[13]
Did I not say it was random?
Originally by: Brock Nelson OP's question is translated as: Help, I'm a female stuck in a man's body, can Incarna help?
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Moleculor
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2010.12.05 04:07:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Brock Nelson Did I not say it was random?
Yes, apparently you did understand my question. However the layout of the factories receiving goods suggests there are rules to how the goods are distributed, as this is how the goods keep distributing. Your answer was to have surplus materials and time to feed them in at all times, and I'm neither rich in time nor money, which is one of the only reasons I'm bothering with PI in the first place.
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Daddy's Princess
The Player Haters Corp
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Posted - 2010.12.05 04:49:00 -
[15]
I've had this happen at times with my factories, not frequently but annoying nevertheless. Seems to be random and stubborn.
I've minimized my issue by making sure to use multiple launch pads and make sure if the same material is needed in two different spots down the chain, I split it and route them from different launch pads to their locations BUT occasionally it still all goes to one or does something stupid on the very last cycle. Tricky bit here is to always deliver your materials to same launchpads otherwise, well you know...
My solution is to stop stressing and just carry spare materials as you got to pick up the ****zz. I know, not really a solution but I can't be arsed worrying about it.
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Sturmwolke
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Posted - 2010.12.05 05:10:00 -
[16]
Purely an academic interest, how are you controlling each batch start?
The buffer pull from the factories are almost immediate (or at least it does not exceed the cycle time). Therefore, theoretically, as long as the time difference between your first & last factory start < cycle time, all the buffers should be evenly distributed right down when it fully empties. The scenario you've described should be impossible.
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Brock Nelson
Caldari T2 Technologies Unlimited SRS.
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Posted - 2010.12.05 05:45:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Brock Nelson on 05/12/2010 05:45:37 Try it this way
Put enough material to fill 2 cycles for a single factory (assume the factory is empty, no queue and is not running) Route the material, submit and then the factory starts along with its queue full. Once that first factory starts, do the same for the second factory...Keep doing this until the last factory has been started and its queue full.
As long as your queue is full and you put in enough material, you can ensure that route splitting won't occur. But based on my previous experience with that kind of setup, it doesn't always work out. Couldn't hurt to try
Originally by: Brock Nelson OP's question is translated as: Help, I'm a female stuck in a man's body, can Incarna help?
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Nicky's Tomb
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Posted - 2010.12.05 20:43:00 -
[18]
Man, it's "Spilt milk"....
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Kaanchana
Caldari Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2010.12.06 04:50:00 -
[19]
hijacking the thread.. is it possible to resurvey and restart new extraction cycle when the current cycle is not finished?
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Greg Huff
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Posted - 2010.12.06 11:02:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Kaanchana hijacking the thread.. is it possible to resurvey and restart new extraction cycle when the current cycle is not finished?
The only way to do this is to destroy the extractor and place a new one.
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Mia Restolo
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Posted - 2010.12.06 19:35:00 -
[21]
So, refill the setup or use less factories? Bring out the exact amount to fill everything if you're OCD...
Making P2, 4 factories missing a cycle when you're obviously not running them full out costs you less than 100-200k worth of finished product. You seem to be buying your P1 mats, so even less than that! On top of that, everything will finish the next time you fill it all up so you only DELAYED the isk!
Now that I feel like ranting I think we've been trolled... |
Berikath
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Posted - 2010.12.06 19:47:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Moleculor Is there something that I could be doing to make it so that all goods are funneled in one direction, rather than split two ways?
No, not really.
The answer to the problem you want to solve is really much simpler than you would think. Let's say you refill your ports every day. The first time, put 28 hours of raw materials on planet. Then, 24 hours later put another 24 hours worth of material on planet. If you keep a buffer going, you'll never run into the problem of factories stopping because of this because your factories will never stop.
If you happen to be in a situation where you need to stop production or switch goods or w/e and you can't/don't want to just eat the materials, just "flush" the factories. Import an excess of each material consumed, make sure all factories are running and have their stockpiles full, then export ALL raw materials back off planet. 2 hours later, you should have empty factories. *** Wish list for PI:
*One-click input routing *Copy product, inputs & outputs in factories *Launchpad upgrades: twice the space, twice the cost, half the hassle! |
O'Nizzle
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Posted - 2010.12.06 19:50:00 -
[23]
Found this thread yesterday because I have the same issue. What I tried yesterday was setting up the routes for each material in the same order. Example: Organic Mortar Applicators
Starting from the top, and working left to right, I created routes for each material to the processors. Today, when I imported enough materials for 4 1/3 processors (I have 19 processors total), I noticed that the materials routed in the order I created the routes, specifically, the processors on the top row. The first 4 were loaded fully, and the 5th got the remaining 1/3.
Hope this helps.
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Anzui
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Posted - 2010.12.07 18:05:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Moleculor
Originally by: Brock Nelson So...cut down the oversupply of one type of material? Remove that extractor and put in another extractor for the material that you're lacking.
I don't have oversupply. I don't even have extractors. Read?
Hello fellow CAS member! You just explained your problem, if you are doing highsec PI you need to have an overstock of items as extractors will never keep up a higher demand from the processors, there just isn't enough resources pulled from hisec planets to feed processors continiously. Trust me, it took me 2 weeks to relize it myself. It sounds like you need at least one more extractor or turn off your processors for a day to build up material from the extractors, which I found if I missed an extractor cycle after it ended (just restart as soon as possible) it was okay so long as the processors continued uninterrupted because they always had resources to pull from a launchpad.
Overstock (planetary resouces being pulled, P0) --> Overstock (first process, (P1)) --> Overstock (second process, P2) --> Overstock (third process, P3) -- Overstock (P4, the final product that needs to be exported and sold)
Basicly keep that first overstock from running out as it processes from right to left or it will cascade failure from left to right as their overstock inputs run out, as each input moves the total quanity of m3 resources gets smaller until you get to P4 which will just stock up until you need to move it. I never got processed passed p2, but the idea requires that there always be just enough overstock that it doesn't run out along the chain for at least half a day and you replace the used overstock by restarting the extractors everyday. If you are using longer cycles, you will need to move to lowsec/nullsec which has more inputs from denser resources, highsec requires more extractors to keep up (there just ins't enough, requiring more extracting) with processers but low/null have have more resources requring more processors to keep up (you just can't keep up, so you need more processing which is what you want to do with less maintence)
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Percy Highlander
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Posted - 2010.12.10 04:09:00 -
[25]
this one is a easy one , most people line up thier factory's all at the same time ....and then hit submit...me included ,then i learned that what u need to do is line up your first factory and hit submit , then the second , etc ...this way the factorys arn't calling for material all at the same time ,,,first come , first serve
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