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Lin-Young Borovskova
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
630
|
Posted - 2012.08.10 21:21:00 -
[31] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:Command ships on the field is not that bad as people might think with fake arguments "we'll shoot it first" yadayada, that's a fake argument TBH !!! Why in hell would you spend alpha volleys on a fast uber tanked brick providing boosts when you can use 1/3 of that energy and stuff to kill other important ships mike tackle and dps ships??? -if some FC's are dumb then let them be. Actually flying a bait "command ship" would be hilarious.
Well all you need actually it's a bait Keres it seems but this only proves how some FC's are plain awful, even I can't be that bad. And trust me I'm awful at pvp. brb |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1260
|
Posted - 2012.08.10 21:29:00 -
[32] - Quote
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:If you can't bring an off grid boost so doesn't someone else witch brings everyone at the same level if you have to bring them on grid. Just make more friends. B-blobbing ?! Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd Click for old school EVE Portraits: http://jadeconstantine.web44.net/Maison.htm |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1260
|
Posted - 2012.08.10 21:29:00 -
[33] - Quote
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:Alavaria Fera wrote:Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:Command ships on the field is not that bad as people might think with fake arguments "we'll shoot it first" yadayada, that's a fake argument TBH !!! Why in hell would you spend alpha volleys on a fast uber tanked brick providing boosts when you can use 1/3 of that energy and stuff to kill other important ships mike tackle and dps ships??? -if some FC's are dumb then let them be. Actually flying a bait "command ship" would be hilarious. Well all you need actually it's a bait Keres it seems but this only proves how some FC's are plain awful, even I can't be that bad. And trust me I'm awful at pvp. Oh my. I actually remember Boat or someone else being primaried in their bricked out command ship.
Makalu <3, enemy FC of our hearts. Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd Click for old school EVE Portraits: http://jadeconstantine.web44.net/Maison.htm |
Klown Walk
Knysna Grim Reapers Absolute Darkness
133
|
Posted - 2012.08.10 21:30:00 -
[34] - Quote
Just nerf the amount they give you, it-¦s to much. On grid will not help, there is already ways around it. |
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
442
|
Posted - 2012.08.10 21:30:00 -
[35] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:Command ships on the field is not that bad as people might think with fake arguments "we'll shoot it first" yadayada, that's a fake argument TBH !!! Why in hell would you spend alpha volleys on a fast uber tanked brick providing boosts when you can use 1/3 of that energy and stuff to kill other important ships mike tackle and dps ships??? -if some FC's are dumb then let them be. Actually flying a bait "command ship" would be hilarious.
I'm really, really confused....
Bait & Fleet Command Ship are pretty much synonymous.... Every single one of them can field 3x Links, a MWD, and 135k + Tank.... And that's t2 fit without pimp.... They do poor dps, but typically have 80-90% resists across the board, making them a very tough nuts to crack... Sure, they might be called primary in a large fleet batttle, but in small to medium sized gangs, shooting them first is typically ********... That's like primarying a moa over a rupture... |
FloppieTheBanjoClown
The Skunkworks The Marmite Collective
2200
|
Posted - 2012.08.10 21:32:00 -
[36] - Quote
Boosting from inside a POS shield should be impossible. Invulnerable boosters are a bad thing.
Yes yes, I know you want to be able to deploy your rorq AND run your gang links AND have zero risk. Maybe it's time you had to make a choice. The Skunkworks is recruiting. -áhttps://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1540711#post1540711 |
Lin-Young Borovskova
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
630
|
Posted - 2012.08.10 21:33:00 -
[37] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:If you can't bring an off grid boost so doesn't someone else witch brings everyone at the same level if you have to bring them on grid. Just make more friends. B-blobbing ?!
Blobbing is a players behaviour, not the game's fault. In whatever pvp game numbers matter and you know it as well or better than I do. Off grid boosting is bad for the game, is bad for everyone starting by CCP. Fake accounts were not, are not and will never be good for them neither on the long run. brb |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1260
|
Posted - 2012.08.10 22:11:00 -
[38] - Quote
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:Alavaria Fera wrote:Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:If you can't bring an off grid boost so doesn't someone else witch brings everyone at the same level if you have to bring them on grid. Just make more friends. B-blobbing ?! Blobbing is a players behaviour, not the game's fault. In whatever pvp game numbers matter and you know it as well or better than I do. Off grid boosting is bad for the game, is bad for everyone starting by CCP. Fake accounts were not, are not and will never be good for them neither on the long run. Meh, the fake accounts pay for sub too. But if fleets needed more boosting characters because of (Command ship made better than T3) and (on grid boosting only) there's be a bunch of accounts that would also need months-long training and so on, so it might help. Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd Click for old school EVE Portraits: http://jadeconstantine.web44.net/Maison.htm |
Muad 'dib
The Imperial Fedaykin
374
|
Posted - 2012.08.10 22:16:00 -
[39] - Quote
A link ship is less fun to fly on the battle field than a mining barge in a belt doing its thing.
Give it something fun, not just insanely horrible dps and range, mids for tackle or tank are pwned by co-pros links and if you want an extra link a command module too.
Why not combine some roles for the CS/T3 like logistic rep bonuses, other remote module bonuses tracking links, sensor boosters etc
A logi ship makes a difference by actively repping everyone and its chain and stuff, a link ships job is done if your side wins. not exactly much inspiration for pilots to aim for. http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/4375/mynewsig2.jpg |
BearJews
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
50
|
Posted - 2012.08.10 22:20:00 -
[40] - Quote
Why not just change it to be on grid boost only. |
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Cadfael Maelgwyn
Immortals of New Eden Rebel Alliance of New Eden
80
|
Posted - 2012.08.10 22:30:00 -
[41] - Quote
Gizznitt Malikite wrote: Boosting characters are often highly trained alts, in feeble ships. This change would eliminate much of the time and training that went into making the alt.
Because this game just needs more alts, right? There's no reason to promote this behavior, except from a business standpoint, which oftentimes does not equate good game design policy.
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:Offgrid boosters are often still engageable. You can scan them down and kill them. And if they are in a POS, you can destroy the POS. And how many hours are you planning to spend destroying the POS to get rid of the booster(s)?
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:Offgrid boosters are often in capital ships... It's not pragmatic to risk a carrier, rorqual, or titan for the benefit of a home defense fleet. Too many capitals in-game anyway. The more of them get blown up, the better.
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:Offgrid boosters are widely used in group PvE, Home defense, and fleet warfare. Removing them will be a huge blow to leadership oriented characters, which are under-appreciated enough as is!
I thought you said these were all alts anyway?
Honestly, off-grid boosting simply promotes risk aversion, the proliferation of alts, and allows people to do "solo" PvP without being really solo.
If a fleet wants the bonuses of fleet boosting, then they'd better be willing to risk the termination of those assets. Just like if you want logistics ships, you have to risk losing them.
And yes, most of the command ships are a little too easily destroyed. Just make it so that the command ships can tank very well and be able to do a decent amount of damage, but not so much that they overwhelm other ships. |
Rroff
The Xenodus Initiative. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
26
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Posted - 2012.08.10 22:47:00 -
[42] - Quote
Cadfael Maelgwyn wrote: Honestly, off-grid boosting simply promotes risk aversion, the proliferation of alts, and allows people to do "solo" PvP without being really solo.
Very few people actually do "solo" PVP booster + single combat ship V single combat ship, not to say that no one does it but most people who run links in solo or very small gang configuration do it so they can take on bigger numbers and stand a chance i.e. the popular active tanked gate camping maelstrom which will typically be looking to engage hideously outnumbered, kiting setups like garmon runs, etc. |
Cadfael Maelgwyn
Immortals of New Eden Rebel Alliance of New Eden
80
|
Posted - 2012.08.10 22:58:00 -
[43] - Quote
Rroff wrote:Cadfael Maelgwyn wrote: Honestly, off-grid boosting simply promotes risk aversion, the proliferation of alts, and allows people to do "solo" PvP without being really solo.
Very few people actually do "solo" PVP booster + single combat ship V single combat ship, not to say that no one does it but most people who run links in solo or very small gang configuration do it so they can take on bigger numbers and stand a chance i.e. the popular active tanked gate camping maelstrom which will typically be looking to engage hideously outnumbered, kiting setups like garmon runs, etc. It's still stupid, no matter how many or how few people do it. |
Lin-Young Borovskova
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
632
|
Posted - 2012.08.10 23:06:00 -
[44] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:Alavaria Fera wrote:Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:If you can't bring an off grid boost so doesn't someone else witch brings everyone at the same level if you have to bring them on grid. Just make more friends. B-blobbing ?! Blobbing is a players behaviour, not the game's fault. In whatever pvp game numbers matter and you know it as well or better than I do. Off grid boosting is bad for the game, is bad for everyone starting by CCP. Fake accounts were not, are not and will never be good for them neither on the long run. Meh, the fake accounts pay for sub too.
Indeed, this was a bad statement from meh, but at the same time I can't think about this without asking why the hell shouldn't people play with other people instead of alts in a fecking MULTIPLAYER game? The fac old and bad mechanics aloud this doesn't prove it's healthy for the game by any means specially in such important roles like Command ships/logisitcs/dictors or even caps/supers/titans. You should be able to do those with your main character without being so heavily penalised (pods cost/docking with supers/titans) and having alts for this should just be a little plus but not a requirement as it is now witch brings metagaming that is no good for the game in the end.
Quote:But if fleets needed more boosting characters because of (Command ship made better than T3) and (on grid boosting only) there's be a bunch of accounts that would also need months-long training and so on, so it might help.
Completely agree with your statement, for a while it can be a problem for some teams the time they get enough characters with command skills however, it's not like if CCP didn't announced for a while now the tiericide chances so people could train ASAP at least primary required kills for at least lvl1 command ships. (new players it's another thread)
I do not liek the feeling I have to buy an alt account because if I don't have one I'm 50% efficient for most activities in game, this is not a free choice but a penalising consequence "must have because" the neighbour does etc. I think it's much better to strongly promote first the team play with real people behind their computer and then multiboxing or alts but with heavy consequences meaning if you have to choose in between looking for friends or just pick an alt, you'd rather take some time to find new friends because this should be at first of everything else a social experience. brb |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1261
|
Posted - 2012.08.10 23:57:00 -
[45] - Quote
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:Completely agree with your statement, for a while it can be a problem for some teams the time they get enough characters with command skills however, it's not like if CCP didn't announced for a while now the tiericide chances so people could train ASAP at least primary required kills for at least lvl1 command ships. (new players it's another thread) New players I don't really think would be looking at fleet boosting *just yet*.
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:I do not liek the feeling I have to buy an alt account because if I don't have one I'm 50% efficient for most activities in game, this is not a free choice but a penalising consequence "must have because" the neighbour does etc. I think it's much better to strongly promote first the team play with real people behind their computer and then multiboxing or alts but with heavy consequences meaning if you have to choose in between looking for friends or just pick an alt, you'd rather take some time to find new friends because this should be at first of everything else a social experience. Yes, but also no. Sometimes small scale coordination (boosting alt, your cynos) is better done by yourself.
Now if you're thinking of the famous and totally true "CFC bot fleets" ... yeah that's just silly. Even if PVP is just "blobbing and F1" I don't think people go out and multibox 3 Drakes for a fleet, it's just not worth it. Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd Click for old school EVE Portraits: http://jadeconstantine.web44.net/Maison.htm |
Kalla Vera Quiroga
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
2
|
Posted - 2012.08.11 00:12:00 -
[46] - Quote
Isn't it ironic that miners are demanded to fit tanks for ganks but if you demand a fleet booster Tech3 to fit tank then they would collapse to tears because their cookie cutter boosting fit crumbles and would no be longer viable? Like, you could fit two different T3s with different links and get their full bonus, why is considered having one ship exclusively for boosting every link balanced? |
Kattshiro
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
99
|
Posted - 2012.08.11 00:26:00 -
[47] - Quote
Weren't T3's meant to boost one link really well? Not rainbow it?
Really boosting as a whole needs to be looked at. Not just the proximity. Allow the fleet to have multiple boosters so long as they're not the same link. Furthermore general hud info should only display the class and race of ship not the specific ship its self without a specialized mod. Command ships with this could broadcast this info to the rest of their fleet/squad, and provide other useful info. Adds another layer of gameplay/fitting. |
Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc
24
|
Posted - 2012.08.11 00:44:00 -
[48] - Quote
I agree with OP pros and cons especially the "not fun" part.
Fleet boosting in itself is designed to be something you don't like to play as there is nothing to do. Something for alts obviously.
By forcing boosters to show up on grid, you will simply force someone to play an extremely boring role.
Remove boosting from POS, and keep the fact that a booster can be scanned. Eventually, do something like disabling warp ability for X minuts after activating links, so that an ennemy scan ship has a chance to find the booster.
If the booster is well prepaired (aka sig radius / sensor strength thing + implants, fittings and months to skill properly), a well prepaired ennemy scanship will be required (skill and scan implants to get a 100%). Here is your balance.
And anyway, this is a situation where the two sides can have same bonuses in same conditions, I see no point at changing it.
That's not because a ship is receiving heals and damages that the game becomes fun. Death to trees !!! *Axe* *Chop, chop, chop...* You may understand what I'm talking about ;) |
MadMuppet
Universal Freelance CONSORTIUM UNIVERSALIS
516
|
Posted - 2012.08.11 01:22:00 -
[49] - Quote
I've said it in the other weakly threads on the issue. On-grid boosting is like asking the pilots of an AWACS aircraft to engage in a dogfight with other fighter aircraft. http://www.opinion-maker.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/Nato_AWACS_and_USAF_F16_fighter_aircraft.jpg They should only need to be in the system. If a booster pilot is just sitting AFK and throwing bonuses then he is not doing his job (counter scanning, directional scan checks, alternate safe spot positioning, etc...).
The off-grid ship can be scanned down and hunted, but after a lot of thought I think that being able to hide inside a POS shield and still throw a bonus is a bit unfair. It would be like saying an AWACS aircraft can hide in an reinforced aircraft shelter and still be able to do its job. Sure it could sit 'just outside' of the shield and work, but if trouble shows up and it runs inside and hides.... no more bonus.
The one part of the 'kill the off-grid bonus' crowd that always seems to get ignored by the haters.... they could always bring their own, but that would require training time or recruiting talent. If I tried to make a type of coffee that made all of you happy, and you rated it, the group score for it would be about 60 out of 100. Break into 3 or 4 coffee clusters, and made coffee just for each cluster, the scores would go from 60 to 78. The difference between coffee at 60 and coffee at 78 is a difference between coffee that makes you wince or makes you happy. |
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
446
|
Posted - 2012.08.11 16:46:00 -
[50] - Quote
MadMuppet wrote:I've said it in the other weakly threads on the issue. On-grid boosting is like asking the pilots of an AWACS aircraft to engage in a dogfight with other fighter aircraft. http://www.opinion-maker.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/Nato_AWACS_and_USAF_F16_fighter_aircraft.jpg They should only need to be in the system. If a booster pilot is just sitting AFK and throwing bonuses then he is not doing his job (counter scanning, directional scan checks, alternate safe spot positioning, etc...). The off-grid ship can be scanned down and hunted, but after a lot of thought I think that being able to hide inside a POS shield and still throw a bonus is a bit unfair. It would be like saying an AWACS aircraft can hide in an reinforced aircraft shelter and still be able to do its job. Sure it could sit 'just outside' of the shield and work, but if trouble shows up and it runs inside and hides.... no more bonus. The one part of the 'kill the off-grid bonus' crowd that always seems to get ignored by the haters.... they could always bring their own, but that would require training time or recruiting talent.
When you fit a 6 link t3 ship with no tank... I can accept this... But I don't rarely are people actually playing a role with these ships... they are far more often just moving them into system and parking them in a safe-ish place... |
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Syphon Lodian
Fabled Enterprises
89
|
Posted - 2012.08.11 16:51:00 -
[51] - Quote
Whats with the group-think on the forums.
Someone makes a topic, then everyone else has to make a thread on the same topic.
It's like you're all robots getting your robot directives at the start of a week.
"This week you'll complain about miners."
"This week you'll complain about boosting"
You could at least consolidate into a single thread on the same subject. |
Rroff
The Xenodus Initiative. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
27
|
Posted - 2012.08.11 17:10:00 -
[52] - Quote
MadMuppet wrote: The one part of the 'kill the off-grid bonus' crowd that always seems to get ignored by the haters.... they could always bring their own, but that would require training time or recruiting talent.
There are other ways to deal with it to i.e. if they bother you that badly and your regularly fighting a corp/alliance that makes good use of gang boosters you could do things like infiltrate that corp and give intel on things like which pilots are in squad leader positions (kill them, break bonuses) or less subtly give a warp in on the gang booster. Or move the fight to another system where they don't have their POS'd booster alt, etc. etc. while difficult its also possible to catch a nullified, hard to scan link ship at gates, etc. with a bit of luck, effort and skill.
If you want a fair fight, or wanting to fight without having to be creative, think outside the box, etc. your definitely playing the wrong game. |
Lin-Young Borovskova
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
636
|
Posted - 2012.08.11 17:19:00 -
[53] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:Completely agree with your statement, for a while it can be a problem for some teams the time they get enough characters with command skills however, it's not like if CCP didn't announced for a while now the tiericide chances so people could train ASAP at least primary required kills for at least lvl1 command ships. (new players it's another thread) New players I don't really think would be looking at fleet boosting *just yet*. Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:I do not liek the feeling I have to buy an alt account because if I don't have one I'm 50% efficient for most activities in game, this is not a free choice but a penalising consequence "must have because" the neighbour does etc. I think it's much better to strongly promote first the team play with real people behind their computer and then multiboxing or alts but with heavy consequences meaning if you have to choose in between looking for friends or just pick an alt, you'd rather take some time to find new friends because this should be at first of everything else a social experience. Yes, but also no. Sometimes small scale coordination (boosting alt, your cynos) is better done by yourself. Now if you're thinking of the famous and totally true "CFC bot fleets" ... yeah that's just silly. Even if PVP is just "blobbing and F1" I don't think people go out and multibox 3 Drakes for a fleet, it's just not worth it.
I know a guy doing it frequently with 5 Drakes not meh of course. brb |
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
446
|
Posted - 2012.08.11 21:15:00 -
[54] - Quote
Kattshiro wrote:Weren't T3's meant to boost one link really well? Not rainbow it?
Really boosting as a whole needs to be looked at. Not just the proximity. Allow the fleet to have multiple boosters so long as they're not the same link. Furthermore general hud info should only display the class and race of ship not the specific ship its self without a specialized mod. Command ships with this could broadcast this info to the rest of their fleet/squad, and provide other useful info. Adds another layer of gameplay/fitting.
This is a good idea... |
Sheynan
Lighting the blight
32
|
Posted - 2012.08.11 22:01:00 -
[55] - Quote
Altrue wrote:
Fleet boosting in itself is designed to be something you don't like to play as there is nothing to do. Something for alts obviously.
By forcing boosters to show up on grid, you will simply force someone to play an extremely boring role.
I don't understand how you can consider a ship that does what every other ship in the fleet does but with just less dps extremely more boring than a standard ship in that fleet ? |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1263
|
Posted - 2012.08.11 22:13:00 -
[56] - Quote
Sheynan wrote:Altrue wrote:Fleet boosting in itself is designed to be something you don't like to play as there is nothing to do. Something for alts obviously.
By forcing boosters to show up on grid, you will simply force someone to play an extremely boring role. I don't understand how you can consider a ship that does what every other ship in the fleet does but with just less dps extremely more boring than a standard ship in that fleet ? Plus, the chances you'll be primary are very high!
It's exciting ! Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd Click for old school EVE Portraits: http://jadeconstantine.web44.net/Maison.htm |
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
446
|
Posted - 2012.08.11 23:04:00 -
[57] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:Sheynan wrote:Altrue wrote:Fleet boosting in itself is designed to be something you don't like to play as there is nothing to do. Something for alts obviously.
By forcing boosters to show up on grid, you will simply force someone to play an extremely boring role. I don't understand how you can consider a ship that does what every other ship in the fleet does but with just less dps extremely more boring than a standard ship in that fleet ? Plus, the chances you'll be primary are very high! It's exciting !
I think this depends on the size of the fleet battle.... In small to medium gangs (<20), CS's are rarely called primary.... |
Roll Sizzle Beef
Space Mutiny
852
|
Posted - 2012.08.11 23:26:00 -
[58] - Quote
1. Keep off-grid boosting 2. Change each racial command ship to have two bonuses, their main racial at 5% and a secondary at 3% 3. Change t3 to allow only a 3% bonus to any booster type. 4. Using links balloons sig radius, making it easier to scan down. 5. Cant boost in POS shields. (shields could possibly vanish in POS update anyway from CSM minutes)
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Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4295
|
Posted - 2012.08.11 23:49:00 -
[59] - Quote
Kalla Vera Quiroga wrote:Isn't it ironic that miners are demanded to fit tanks for ganks but if you demand a fleet booster Tech3 to fit tank then they would collapse to tears because their cookie cutter boosting fit crumbles and would no be longer viable? Like, you could fit two different T3s with different links and get their full bonus, why is considered having one ship exclusively for boosting every link balanced?
the difference is that boosting in a paper-thin T3 isn't really an income activity "WeGÇÖre a professional Merc Alliance, like PL" ~ snot shot, 2012 |
Nicholas Tong
University of Caille Gallente Federation
2
|
Posted - 2012.08.11 23:51:00 -
[60] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:Sheynan wrote:Altrue wrote:Fleet boosting in itself is designed to be something you don't like to play as there is nothing to do. Something for alts obviously.
By forcing boosters to show up on grid, you will simply force someone to play an extremely boring role. I don't understand how you can consider a ship that does what every other ship in the fleet does but with just less dps extremely more boring than a standard ship in that fleet ? Plus, the chances you'll be primary are very high! It's exciting !
Then you'd want to bring a lot of **** that gets primary, arazus, falcons, vagabonds, tornados, logis, SBs right? But nobody is going to hit any of these but the 100k+ EHP sitting away from the fight. And here I though goondrones knew any better. |
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