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Patri Andari
Caldari Thukker Tribe Antiquities Importer
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Posted - 2010.12.05 20:31:00 -
[1]
Tier 1 BC mostly suck for one reason or another but imagine the following:
Increase speed and agility to near cruiser stats. Reduce total hit points to near cruiser stats. Reduce signature range to near cruiser stats. Leave all other statistics (fittings, hardpoints etc.) and bonuses as they are.
Essentially, make them into heavy cruisers with more guns and only slightly less flight performance than a cruiser. Each race could be limited in such a way as to not to be faster or more agile than any T1 cruiser in its own race. In other words, a cyclone should not be faster or ore agile than a stabber but could be close.
I think this would be an interesting change. It would make all T1 BCs have a focus on heavy tackle of larger ships and perhaps be better at skirmishes against those same ships.
Perhaps this is a bad idea, but I would love to see a Brutix that could run down a battleship and close range before it took too many hits. Or a Prophesy that could kite rather than just play bait.
Just a thought.
Patri
I'll Roshambo You For That Titan! |
fuxinos
Caldari Guys 0f Sarcasm
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Posted - 2010.12.05 21:26:00 -
[2]
Edited by: fuxinos on 05/12/2010 21:26:53 Nah, way to complicated.
Ferox: 1+ Turrethardpoint; + ~300 extra powergrid Cyclone: +1 Turrethardpoint Prophecy: 10% cap usage bonus -> 5% Heavy Assault Missile Launcher ROF bonus; -6 turret hardpoints + 5 launcher hardpoints. Brutix: Armor rep bonus -> 5% resist bonus or 7,5% tracking bonus
Thats about it.
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Omara Otawan
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Posted - 2010.12.05 21:32:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Omara Otawan on 05/12/2010 21:35:21
Interesting idea, not sure about going to the extremes described in the OP, but certainly a lot better than the usual demand of 'make them be like tier2 BCs'.
Shouldnt obsolete cruiser hulls more than they already are by BCs though, i.e. a Cyclone as fast as a Rupture would make that hull completely useless, same goes for Thorax vs Brutix.
There needs to be a distinction between fast 'light' battlecruisers and cruisers.
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Zilberfrid
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Posted - 2010.12.05 22:25:00 -
[4]
Interesting thought, but would be horrible for cruisers.
I could see a bit more speed and agility, with equal tank, be a good solution to make them worthwhile, but I mean a bit more, like 10m/s.
Anything more would obsolete the complete cruiser class, which suffers even worse from the tier system. ------------------------------------- I like to fly around and shoot stuff.
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Larton Dretta
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Posted - 2010.12.06 02:21:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Patri Andari Tier 1 BC mostly suck for one reason or another
Excuse me, but why make a long post if you're going to start it with a really stupid statement like this. People fly both tiers of BCs and they use them with great success. Why would you remove ships from the game, that people really like to fly.
Also there's already a lineup of ships you're talking about, they're called Heavy Assault Cruisers.
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Liang Nuren
Parsec Flux War.Pigs.
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Posted - 2010.12.06 02:57:00 -
[6]
Originally by: fuxinos Edited by: fuxinos on 05/12/2010 21:26:53 Nah, way to complicated.
Ferox: 1+ Turrethardpoint; + ~300 extra powergrid Cyclone: +1 Turrethardpoint Prophecy: 10% cap usage bonus -> 5% Heavy Assault Missile Launcher ROF bonus; -6 turret hardpoints + 5 launcher hardpoints. Brutix: Armor rep bonus -> 5% resist bonus or 7,5% tracking bonus
Thats about it.
Maybe if you also give them their extra slots. Also, don't be so damn stingy with the launcher points on the Prophecy.
-Liang -- Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire On Twitter - Blog got deleted when Evepress died - |
Kai Yuen
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Posted - 2010.12.06 03:26:00 -
[7]
Originally by: fuxinos Edited by: fuxinos on 05/12/2010 21:26:53 Nah, way to complicated.
Ferox: 1+ Turrethardpoint; + ~300 extra powergrid Cyclone: +1 Turrethardpoint Prophecy: 10% cap usage bonus -> 5% Heavy Assault Missile Launcher ROF bonus; -6 turret hardpoints + 5 launcher hardpoints. Brutix: Armor rep bonus -> 5% resist bonus or 7,5% tracking bonus
Thats about it.
Way too simple. You'd have to at least add additional fitting stats to compensate for the additional hard points, and the Ferox could benefit so much more from an additional mid than a gun.
Originally by: Larton Dretta
Excuse me, but why make a long post if you're going to start it with a really stupid statement like this. People fly both tiers of BCs and they use them with great success. Why would you remove ships from the game, that people really like to fly.
Also there's already a lineup of ships you're talking about, they're called Heavy Assault Cruisers.
That's only true for the Brutix and the Cyclone, but the Prophecy is a joke a the Ferox is just... lawlz. The mediocrity of hybrids not withstanding, the Ferox can't even fit a full set of ion blasters without a fitting mod and/or rig. That's just pathetic. Combine that with hybrid gimpness and you get a ship with no fitting power and no weapons to fit with said absence of fitting power.
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Templar Dane
Amarrian Retribution
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Posted - 2010.12.06 04:26:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Templar Dane on 06/12/2010 04:32:46 Prophecy wants 6 launchers and another mid.
Ferox wants another turret, more fitting, and another mid.
Brutix wants a shield hp bonus(ahahahahahaha)
Cyclone is already pretty decent, plus one low/mid and it should be fine. Giving it another turret if the others got buffed enough to keep everything level.
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Maybe if you also give them their extra slots. Also, don't be so damn stingy with the launcher points on the Prophecy.
-Liang
Prophecy already has one launcher, ye olde random launcher hardpoint for the overpowered defender missiles, his suggestion would give it 6 launchers + utility high which I think is fair.
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Alara IonStorm
Agent-Orange Nabaal Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.12.06 05:03:00 -
[9]
I would like the Brutix to recieve a Low Slot and Grid for Ions and second Repper.
7x Ions
1x Med Cap Booster 1x Scram/Disrutor 1x Web 1x MWD
2x MAR 1x EANM 1x DCU 2x Mag Stabs
Make it a true Duel Rep Boat.
Cyclone an Extra Mid and +1 turret
Ferox, +1 Rails, Fitting for Rails, Fix Rails.
Prophecy, +1 Low and Dmg Bonus. Though Missile Proph would be awsome. The armor Drake.
-- I can not decide on a sig yet.
Under Construction.
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Mavnas
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Posted - 2010.12.06 05:33:00 -
[10]
Fixing them is very simple, buff them to be like the T2 BCs, give one offensive bonuses, and the other one defensive bonuses. (Some races already have this tank vs. gank differentiation.)
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Zhim'Fufu
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Posted - 2010.12.06 05:36:00 -
[11]
Originally by: fuxinos Edited by: fuxinos on 05/12/2010 21:26:53 Nah, way to complicated.
Ferox: 1+ Turrethardpoint; + ~300 extra powergrid Cyclone: +1 Turrethardpoint Prophecy: 10% cap usage bonus -> 5% Heavy Assault Missile Launcher ROF bonus; -6 turret hardpoints + 5 launcher hardpoints. Brutix: Armor rep bonus -> 5% resist bonus or 7,5% tracking bonus
Thats about it.
I like this in addition to whatever fitting changes need to be done. Make it so CCP.
Oh wait. I forgot that any new major changes to the game have to wait till after Incarna is fully deployed.
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The Djego
Minmatar Hellequin Inc.
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Posted - 2010.12.06 08:41:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Alara IonStorm I would like the Brutix to recieve a Low Slot and Grid for Ions and second Repper.
7x Ions
1x Med Cap Booster 1x Scram/Disrutor 1x Web 1x MWD
2x MAR 1x EANM 1x DCU 2x Mag Stabs
Make it a true Duel Rep Boat.
Yeah, there is a serious need for another dual repping gallente BC.
---- Nerf Tank - Boost Gank!
Originally by: Amantus Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
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Alara IonStorm
Agent-Orange Nabaal Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.12.06 08:50:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Alara IonStorm on 06/12/2010 08:51:19
Originally by: The Djego Yeah, there is a serious need for another dual repping gallente BC.
Yes because the Mrymidon is on the top 20 list because duel reps suck in small gangs and solo.
But hey my suggestion was keeping the same bounuses as they currently have. If you have a better one please share with the class.
-- I can not decide on a sig yet.
Under Construction.
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The Djego
Minmatar Hellequin Inc.
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Posted - 2010.12.06 09:01:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Alara IonStorm
Originally by: The Djego Yeah, there is a serious need for another dual repping gallente BC.
Yes because the Mrymidon is on the top 20 list because duel reps suck in small gangs and solo.
Yes and since this works so good with blasters, most myrmidons are blaster fitted and got 2 damage mods. ---- Nerf Tank - Boost Gank!
Originally by: Amantus Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
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Alara IonStorm
Agent-Orange Nabaal Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.12.06 09:02:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Alara IonStorm on 06/12/2010 09:02:25
Originally by: The Djego Yes and since this works so good with blasters, most myrmidons are blaster fitted and got 2 damage mods.
Most Myrms don't have a Hybrid Dmg Bonus.
-- I can not decide on a sig yet.
Under Construction.
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The Djego
Minmatar Hellequin Inc.
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Posted - 2010.12.06 09:04:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Alara IonStorm
Originally by: The Djego Yes and since this works so good with blasters, most myrmidons are blaster fitted and got 2 damage mods.
Most Myrms don't have a Hybrid Dmg Bonus.
Brutix, commonly seen armor tanking in a system near you... ---- Nerf Tank - Boost Gank!
Originally by: Amantus Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
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Alara IonStorm
Agent-Orange Nabaal Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.12.06 09:08:00 -
[17]
Originally by: The Djego Brutix, commonly seen armor tanking in a system near you...
Not yet, but thats a problem with the way Armor Rigs and plates work in combination with Short Range Weapons. Hyperion Pilots don't mind but they have six lows.
But if you could get a 400+ DPS Tank out of it a lot more people would do it. But as I said, if you want to base a change around changing the bonus suggest one.
-- I can not decide on a sig yet.
Under Construction.
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Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2010.12.06 09:12:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Gypsio III on 06/12/2010 09:13:50
Originally by: Kai Yuen The mediocrity of hybrids not withstanding, the Ferox can't even fit a full set of ion blasters without a fitting mod and/or rig. That's just pathetic.
Of course it can. Try training Engineering, or be less terrible at fitting ships. It fits a full rack of neutrons with an ACR.
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The Djego
Minmatar Hellequin Inc.
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Posted - 2010.12.06 09:24:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Alara IonStorm
Originally by: The Djego Brutix, commonly seen armor tanking in a system near you...
Not yet, but thats a problem with the way Armor Rigs and plates work in combination with Short Range Weapons. Hyperion Pilots don't mind but they have six lows.
But if you could get a 400+ DPS Tank out of it a lot more people would do it. But as I said, if you want to base a change around changing the bonus suggest one.
If you want to do active tanking you use a myrm. It got the 6 lows, a utility med, free weapon choice(cap less preferred) and the flexibility with drones.
The brutix however needs be be geared more around the only role that the myrm leaves out, what is close range gank(even if st myrms can gank quite well).
This would require a extra med, a bit more powergrid, a bit more speed and a web strenght bonus(instead of the rep bonus). Also a general blaster buff. ---- Nerf Tank - Boost Gank!
Originally by: Amantus Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
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Korg Leaf
Time Bandits.
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Posted - 2010.12.06 09:27:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Gypsio III Edited by: Gypsio III on 06/12/2010 09:13:50
Originally by: Kai Yuen The mediocrity of hybrids not withstanding, the Ferox can't even fit a full set of ion blasters without a fitting mod and/or rig. That's just pathetic.
Of course it can. Try training Engineering, or be less terrible at fitting ships. It fits a full rack of neutrons with an ACR.
You can fit three neutrons and three ions without fitting mods and that includes 3 slot tank and mwd just unfortunately only one tackle mod :)
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1600 RT
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Posted - 2010.12.06 10:20:00 -
[21]
Originally by: fuxinos Edited by: fuxinos on 05/12/2010 21:26:53 Nah, way to complicated.
Ferox: 1+ Turrethardpoint; + ~300 extra powergrid Cyclone: +1 Turrethardpoint Prophecy: 10% cap usage bonus -> 5% Heavy Assault Missile Launcher ROF bonus; -6 turret hardpoints + 5 launcher hardpoints. Brutix: Armor rep bonus -> 5% resist bonus or 7,5% tracking bonus
Thats about it.
cyclone definitely need more cpu prophecy yeah i like that but 5 missile hardpoint are too low, it need at least 6 brutix i would take the tracking bonus at least its useful with both armor and shield tank, the resist bonus could be useful if it had its fitting stats adjusted so the ship will be able to fit a decent armor tank and guns
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Alara IonStorm
Agent-Orange Nabaal Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.12.06 10:23:00 -
[22]
Originally by: 1600 RT
prophecy yeah i like that but 5 missile hardpoint are too low, it need at least 6
Actually it would have 6 if you added 5.
Thats right it has a Missile Point
Anyway, meet the new Armor Drake, I love it.
-- I can not decide on a sig yet.
Under Construction.
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fuxinos
Caldari Guys 0f Sarcasm
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Posted - 2010.12.06 12:56:00 -
[23]
Edited by: fuxinos on 06/12/2010 12:58:29 Edited by: fuxinos on 06/12/2010 12:56:57
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: fuxinos Edited by: fuxinos on 05/12/2010 21:26:53 Nah, way to complicated.
Ferox: 1+ Turrethardpoint; + ~300 extra powergrid Cyclone: +1 Turrethardpoint Prophecy: 10% cap usage bonus -> 5% Heavy Assault Missile Launcher ROF bonus; -6 turret hardpoints + 5 launcher hardpoints. Brutix: Armor rep bonus -> 5% resist bonus or 7,5% tracking bonus
Thats about it.
Maybe if you also give them their extra slots. Also, don't be so damn stingy with the launcher points on the Prophecy.
-Liang
I thought 6 and ROF bonus are ok.
Should yield sligthly less dps then Drake.
And for compensation, it would still have some advantages over Drake, like enough grid for Medium Neut or so.
Hm, extra slot would be good idea too, but for start, this should help alot already.
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Jacob Holland
Gallente Weyland-Vulcan Industries
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Posted - 2010.12.06 18:08:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Alara IonStorm <Snip>Make it a true Duel Rep Boat.
Who armour tanks the Brutix and doesn't fit Dual Rep?
Dual Rep, EANM & DCU, Magstab and 2 Hybrid Rigs.
Of course the Neutron/Shield Brutix still grabs the headlines but that's partly the heavy cap use of Blasters and partly the current obsession with Buffer over repair. --
Originally by: cordy
Respect to IAC .Your one of the few people who truly deserve to own and live in the space you are in.
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James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2010.12.06 18:15:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Jacob Holland
Originally by: Alara IonStorm <Snip>Make it a true Duel Rep Boat.
Who armour tanks the Brutix and doesn't fit Dual Rep?
Dual Rep, EANM & DCU, Magstab and 2 Hybrid Rigs.
Of course the Neutron/Shield Brutix still grabs the headlines but that's partly the heavy cap use of Blasters and partly the current obsession with Buffer over repair.
Actually I think it's more because the incredibly short range of blasters, means you really really want to fit the longest range ones. Which are also the highest fitting ones. Which means no room for reps.
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James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2010.12.06 18:19:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Alara IonStorm
Originally by: 1600 RT
prophecy yeah i like that but 5 missile hardpoint are too low, it need at least 6
Actually it would have 6 if you added 5.
Thats right it has a Missile Point
Anyway, meet the new Armor Drake, I love it.
Nice idea. I'd also like to see a torpedo-abaddon. with a Khanid paint job. But perhaps this is just optimism on my part.
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Alara IonStorm
Agent-Orange Nabaal Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.12.06 18:22:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Alara IonStorm on 06/12/2010 18:22:30
Originally by: James Lyrus . I'd also like to see a torpedo-abaddon. with a Khanid paint job. But perhaps this is just optimism on my part.
No it is the dream of anyone who loves the Abbadon, Black Paint and Torpedoes.
By the way, a lot of people love the Abbadon, Black Paint and Torpedoes.
-- I can not decide on a sig yet.
Under Construction.
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Ulstan
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Posted - 2010.12.06 18:23:00 -
[28]
I'd love to see the 'tier' system go away and all frigs/cruisers/bc's be on the same footing.
I'm a bit wary of making BC's even faster/more agile, as I think that would only further obsolete cruisers.
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Rastigan
Caldari Ars ex Discordia Test Alliance Please Ignore
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Posted - 2010.12.06 18:41:00 -
[29]
They already have a better version of cruisers with the same agility, its called faction/pirate/or T2 ...
If they ever fixed rails(lol) the Ferox would be an awesome ship, there is absolutely nothing wrong with the Brutix either, despite it having a useless bonus to fool people into using it, and a solo Cyclone/Prophecy in lowsec/0.0 space always makes people think twice before engaging.
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The Djego
Minmatar Hellequin Inc.
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Posted - 2010.12.06 18:42:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Jacob Holland Dual Rep, EANM & DCU, Magstab and 2 Hybrid Rigs.
Yeah the time before everybody fitted trimarks and extender rigs in her BCs, I remember it to. However this fit will hit the fan against nearly any BC this days. ---- Nerf Tank - Boost Gank!
Originally by: Amantus Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
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