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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 63 post(s) |
Superpossee
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Posted - 2010.12.15 10:23:00 -
[361]
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Quote:
You can start by telling your alliance bosses not to buy PLEX and ISKs of Chinese websites.
RMT only works because some morons think they can buy everything. Stop buying it. Get your PLEX and ISK the way you want everyone else to get them - by playing the game - and stop thinking you have got nothing to do with it.
Teaching people not to cheat is a very long term objective.
This stance is totally simplicistic, it's the same as standing on a high horse and saying that people should stop committing crimes. O really? No way, those committing crimes don't give a **BEEP** about you preaching them to be good boys. In RL we get police to convince them, what do we get in EvE?
In EvE what I have met is an endless stream of clueless GM that closely remind those overseas call centers. The players have to explain them the 101 of what happens and escalate the issue to GMs with a clue as soon as the problem requires an above chimpanze level knowledge.
How can anyone expect they'll even bother or know how to properly alert the higher tiers of actual employees up the CCP food chain?
The blog is a testament to this. It seems written by an alien.
WE ARE FUC*ED EVERY DAY BY BOTS in a game that unlike the others:
- is competitive
- relies on an healthy economy
- has no parachute mechanisms for RMT
- is CHOKING FULL of easily botted activities
- has dire consequences in case of loss.
I lose a SC that took me 3 RL years to grind? I am BONED (the corp will help but the hurt IS here).
A botter or - worse - a RMTer loses a SC? Yawn he'll have to log in one of his 20 other ones.
How does this look in the flaunted competitive, pure PvP MMO?
This SO MUCH
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Rasz Lin
Caldari Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2010.12.15 10:53:00 -
[362]
Edited by: Rasz Lin on 15/12/2010 10:55:02
Originally by: Aylara It's cheaper to tolerate the bots to a certain amount than to change the game mechanics.
What do you mean "cheaper"? The bots are the ones PROVIDING INCOME for CCP. Every bot generates isk that later pays for 20-50 PLEXes per month. Bots enable people to pay for plex = they create demand for PLEX = CCP sells more PLEX.
The only thing CCP doesnt like is competition from RTMers, but CCP LOVES bots.
Last time they banned bots (unholy rage) PLEX price plummeted down as people didnt have ISK to buy plex = demand for PLEX dropped = incentive to buy PLEX from CCP in order to get ISK dropped = CCP lost money on the whole operation. They wont do it again.
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Hueijin San
Gallente Estrale Frontiers
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Posted - 2010.12.15 11:11:00 -
[363]
"Remember, remember, the 5th of December, RMT traders and bots."
Ben, can you complete the doggerel?
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Tornan
Minmatar Oberon Incorporated Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2010.12.15 11:23:00 -
[364]
Originally by: Rasz Lin Edited by: Rasz Lin on 15/12/2010 10:55:02
Originally by: Aylara It's cheaper to tolerate the bots to a certain amount than to change the game mechanics.
What do you mean "cheaper"? The bots are the ones PROVIDING INCOME for CCP. Every bot generates isk that later pays for 20-50 PLEXes per month. Bots enable people to pay for plex = they create demand for PLEX = CCP sells more PLEX.
The only thing CCP doesnt like is competition from RTMers, but CCP LOVES bots.
Last time they banned bots (unholy rage) PLEX price plummeted down as people didnt have ISK to buy plex = demand for PLEX dropped = incentive to buy PLEX from CCP in order to get ISK dropped = CCP lost money on the whole operation. They wont do it again.
I dont understand your logic, if I buy plex with isk they make no money off me. If they removed plex I would have to buy the regular subscription, unless your saying that ccp generates more money by sselling isk.
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Mernek
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Posted - 2010.12.15 11:42:00 -
[365]
Originally by: Tornan
Originally by: Rasz Lin Edited by: Rasz Lin on 15/12/2010 10:55:02
Originally by: Aylara It's cheaper to tolerate the bots to a certain amount than to change the game mechanics.
What do you mean "cheaper"? The bots are the ones PROVIDING INCOME for CCP. Every bot generates isk that later pays for 20-50 PLEXes per month. Bots enable people to pay for plex = they create demand for PLEX = CCP sells more PLEX.
The only thing CCP doesnt like is competition from RTMers, but CCP LOVES bots.
Last time they banned bots (unholy rage) PLEX price plummeted down as people didnt have ISK to buy plex = demand for PLEX dropped = incentive to buy PLEX from CCP in order to get ISK dropped = CCP lost money on the whole operation. They wont do it again.
I dont understand your logic, if I buy plex with isk they make no money off me. If they removed plex I would have to buy the regular subscription, unless your saying that ccp generates more money by sselling isk.
They make no money directly from you, but that PLEX you bought is not seeded by CCP, it is bought from CCP by someone else and put on the market.
PLEX is not necessarily used up at the time of purchase, it can be stockpiled, it has been stockpiled. More gametime is in circulation as a result of PLEX than if we just had regular subscriptions. Of course this is also a liability for CCP as there is always the possibilty of that PLEX gametime being used up at the expense of subscriptions later. Although if a few players are controlling the sales of PLEX, I doubt that would happen. Essentially there will be PLEX gametime on the servers long after they have been shutdown and we are all playing something else. That is why PLEX makes CCP more money than regular subscriptions.
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Rasz Lin
Caldari Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2010.12.15 11:47:00 -
[366]
Originally by: Tornan
Originally by: Rasz Lin Edited by: Rasz Lin on 15/12/2010 10:55:02
Originally by: Aylara It's cheaper to tolerate the bots to a certain amount than to change the game mechanics.
What do you mean "cheaper"? The bots are the ones PROVIDING INCOME for CCP. Every bot generates isk that later pays for 20-50 PLEXes per month. Bots enable people to pay for plex = they create demand for PLEX = CCP sells more PLEX.
The only thing CCP doesnt like is competition from RTMers, but CCP LOVES bots.
Last time they banned bots (unholy rage) PLEX price plummeted down as people didnt have ISK to buy plex = demand for PLEX dropped = incentive to buy PLEX from CCP in order to get ISK dropped = CCP lost money on the whole operation. They wont do it again.
I dont understand your logic, if I buy plex with isk they make no money off me. If they removed plex I would have to buy the regular subscription, unless your saying that ccp generates more money by sselling isk.
CCP tapped and monetized "Free to play" market with PLEX. Removing PLEX means losing huge chunk of EVE population. Remember that "Free to play + microtransaction" is becoming the norm. CCP can either somehow let those people participate in EVE (PLEX) or lose money .... or convert to microtransaction completely.
CCP doesnt sell ISK, they sell PLEX. They will sell isk if/when they convert to microtransaction model.
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Kalle Demos
Amarr Hysteria Nexus
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Posted - 2010.12.15 11:52:00 -
[367]
Originally by: Rasz Lin
Last time they banned bots (unholy rage)
Actually they never banned bots, unholy rage was to tackle RMT
Originally by: Kool StoryBro <---
Originally by: CCP Spitfire Spam post removed.
Random forum moments ftw |
Mernek
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Posted - 2010.12.15 11:58:00 -
[368]
Best way to look at it is by using unholy rage as an example. Rasz said ccp lost money and they won't do it again. We can show how they 'lost money' but whether they do it again is dependent upon how virtuous they are.
I wrote above about the PLEX + subscription gametime being in excess of subscription gametime alone. I tried to explain how this selling of PLEX can therefore create at any one time a greater revenue for CCP than subscriptions alone. I also said that this is also somewhat of a liability as this gametime in the system could be used up at the expense of subscriptions. In a sense you can say that PLEX are an advance for CCP.
SO, recap over, on to unholy rage.
As Rasz said unholy rage banned a large number of botters, likely not those just involved in RMT. As a result the demand for PLEX fell. This is for 2 reasons. Firstly the bot accounts themselves are paid for with PLEX and secondly, the RMT isk is cheaper than PLEX isk (or there would be no RMT) so people were buying a bil for 20 dollars and buying 3 months of gametime in the form of PLEX. 3 times the gametime you can get legitimately. When the demand for plex fell, so did the price.
This did two things, legitimate PLEX sellers stopped selling and more players started to fund their game time through PLEX. This eats into that giant liability CCP have, revenue per month fell and who knows maybe they were idiots and already spent the advance from the community.
There will be people who cry at this and say that the increase in PLEX used after unholy rage should have caused a price increase. I'm sure it did, gradually, a little. But nowhere near as volatile as teh changes we saw due to removal of bots.
I think that volatility shows just how many are at work here.
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Mernek
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Posted - 2010.12.15 12:03:00 -
[369]
Originally by: Rasz Lin
Originally by: Tornan
Originally by: Rasz Lin Edited by: Rasz Lin on 15/12/2010 10:55:02
Originally by: Aylara It's cheaper to tolerate the bots to a certain amount than to change the game mechanics.
What do you mean "cheaper"? The bots are the ones PROVIDING INCOME for CCP. Every bot generates isk that later pays for 20-50 PLEXes per month. Bots enable people to pay for plex = they create demand for PLEX = CCP sells more PLEX.
The only thing CCP doesnt like is competition from RTMers, but CCP LOVES bots.
Last time they banned bots (unholy rage) PLEX price plummeted down as people didnt have ISK to buy plex = demand for PLEX dropped = incentive to buy PLEX from CCP in order to get ISK dropped = CCP lost money on the whole operation. They wont do it again.
I dont understand your logic, if I buy plex with isk they make no money off me. If they removed plex I would have to buy the regular subscription, unless your saying that ccp generates more money by sselling isk.
CCP tapped and monetized "Free to play" market with PLEX. Removing PLEX means losing huge chunk of EVE population. Remember that "Free to play + microtransaction" is becoming the norm. CCP can either somehow let those people participate in EVE (PLEX) or lose money .... or convert to microtransaction completely.
CCP doesnt sell ISK, they sell PLEX. They will sell isk if/when they convert to microtransaction model.
Bold part is a bit naive. RL cash --> GTC --> PLEX --> ISK is CCP selling isk, it's just got some extra steps so some smart arse lawyer doesnt start clamouring for us to start paying tax on our isk irl.
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Aabis Jeasu
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Posted - 2010.12.15 14:37:00 -
[370]
This game stopped being legit when they allowed people to hand over real money to become more powerful in game. What makes you think they would give a **** about bots at this point? |
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EvilFighter123
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Posted - 2010.12.15 14:40:00 -
[371]
Grammar ****: You spelt fed wrong.
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Aeronwen Carys
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Posted - 2010.12.15 14:44:00 -
[372]
For god sake edit the title of this damned thread, its FED not feed. Got it?? F E D. you people **** me off.
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EvilFighter123
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Posted - 2010.12.15 14:47:00 -
[373]
Originally by: Aeronwen Carys For god sake edit the title of this damned thread, its FED not feed. Got it?? F E D. you people **** me off.
THANK YOU FOR THE SUPPORT
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Arugas Koken
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Posted - 2010.12.15 23:14:00 -
[374]
Apparently the Eryan code has been acquired by CCP and is being looked at.
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Mernek
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Posted - 2010.12.15 23:41:00 -
[375]
I don't know what's more worrying, that they have only recently laid hands on it, or that someone in ccp told the brains behind the bots that they had.
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Wartrec
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Posted - 2010.12.16 12:04:00 -
[376]
In case one of you macro users did not read this.
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Kalle Demos
Amarr Hysteria Nexus
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Posted - 2010.12.16 13:17:00 -
[377]
Seems like the patch yesterday and today has made people focus on other stuff.
I guess if you need anything doing right, you have todo it yourself.
Next Hulageddon in mid jan yeh?
Originally by: Kool StoryBro <---
Originally by: CCP Spitfire Spam post removed.
Random forum moments ftw |
OneTimeAt BannedSpank
Amarr Trillionaire High-Rollers Suicidal Bassoon Orkesta
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Posted - 2010.12.16 14:10:00 -
[378]
~
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Tornan
Minmatar Oberon Incorporated Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2010.12.16 15:28:00 -
[379]
wasnt CCP supposed to give an official response this week
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Stratego
Ad Infernum
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Posted - 2010.12.16 15:35:00 -
[380]
Originally by: Tornan wasnt CCP supposed to give an official response this week
Still a lot of time left of the week.
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Commander Shipping
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Posted - 2010.12.16 15:45:00 -
[381]
Edited by: Commander Shipping on 16/12/2010 15:45:55
Originally by: EvilFighter123
Originally by: Aeronwen Carys For god sake edit the title of this damned thread, its FED not feed. Got it?? F E D. you people **** me off.
THANK YOU FOR THE SUPPORT
It is about understanding the contents of the post, not about spelling/grammar. 3/4 of the players are not from UK/US, so why would they care about it?.. If i post a link to a picture with a fist that has a middle finger raised up, you will understand either you speak English or not. Internet is full of idiot s like you, who are using spelling/grammar as an argument.
****
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Soma Khan
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.12.16 15:50:00 -
[382]
Originally by: Aeronwen Carys For god sake edit the title of this damned thread, its FED not feed. Got it?? F E D. you people **** me off.
apparently the owner of the thread got banned for rmt'ing, so there's no-one to fix the title. file a petition __
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trollerii
-Mostly Harmless-
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Posted - 2010.12.16 16:03:00 -
[383]
Originally by: Aeronwen Carys For god sake edit the title of this damned thread, its FED not feed. Got it?? F E D. you people **** me off.
Such an issue. The thread is incomprehensible because of an extra E in one of the words in the topic. People whining on things like this deserves to DIAF.
OT: Gonna be interesting with a statement from CCP, RMT is never fun for us that actually play the game legit.
-{Signature}-
OvO -orly? *hoot hoot* m m |
Kalle Demos
Amarr Hysteria Nexus
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Posted - 2010.12.16 16:25:00 -
[384]
The GM blog on this is out, as you can see the issue is RMT and botting is something that is difficult to detect.
DEVBLOG!!
Originally by: Kool StoryBro <---
Originally by: CCP Spitfire Spam post removed.
Random forum moments ftw |
Namira Incendie
Minmatar Valor Enterprises
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Posted - 2010.12.16 17:09:00 -
[385]
Edited by: Namira Incendie on 16/12/2010 17:09:23
Originally by: Kalle Demos The GM blog on this is out, as you can see the issue is RMT and botting is something that is difficult to detect.
DEVBLOG!!
Easy to detect, just look at the server resources usage from the Unholy Rage blog. It's hard to prove, but easy to detect. The smart ones wont have their main characters at risk at all, as all illegal activity is done remotely.
Also that devblog is a horrid excuse for a response. It'd be better off as a forum post.
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting
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Posted - 2010.12.17 11:13:00 -
[386]
Originally by: Kalle Demos The GM blog on this is out, as you can see the issue is RMT and botting is something that is difficult to detect.
DEVBLOG!!
It's not difficult. You could copy a protection scheme used by Autodesk 2 decades ago to weed off the "thin clients". You can also inspect system that have 1 zillion belt kills a day and zero PVP activity. Just with the two above they could get hundreds of bots a day. If they also implemented my suggestions posted in the previous pages this would even achieve much more.
The worst result anyway is not being unable to defeat botters (they'll evolve over time) but the ambiguous at best messages that CCP sends to the player base. No other prominent MMO company seem so deaf and even complacent with botters like they do. The blog you linked is an hurriedly up made piece of PR, with no substance, no commitment, no sense of serious and well programmed engagement. - Auditing & consulting
When looking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
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Rasz Lin
Caldari Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2010.12.17 13:28:00 -
[387]
The problem was NEVER with detecting. Problem is of economic nature. CCP crunched the numbers after Unholy Rage, came to the conclusion they lost money and decided to focus on RTMing alts instead of macro. Read that blog again, not a word about macro being a problem. Only about RTM and how its competing with legal GTC sales.
CCP is in business of making money, macros provide ISK that is used to buy PLEX, CCP likes to sell a lot of PLEX. Its that simple.
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Silen Boon
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Posted - 2010.12.17 15:27:00 -
[388]
The recent devblog, regarding this subject, suggested that CCPs focus was to stop RMTs. I think this is exceptionally unfair on the players who stick to the rules. The rules should be enforced regardless of CCPs preferences.
RMTs and bots need to be treated as different issues. Both are against CCPs rules, and are tackled in different ways.
Bots and Macros have a huge effect peoples game play. CCP needs to make it clear that using macroes is not acceptable, and people using them will be hunted down and banned. Sadly the devblog gave the impression that even if CCP suspect you were using a macro, they couldn't prove it.
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Open Orifice
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Posted - 2010.12.17 17:12:00 -
[389]
Man, I can hardly wait until I can buy Skill Points for real cash....
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Durnin Stormbrow
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Posted - 2010.12.17 17:23:00 -
[390]
Originally by: Mernek
Originally by: Rasz Lin
CCP doesn't sell ISK, they sell PLEX. They will sell isk if/when they convert to micro transaction model.
Bold part is a bit naive. RL cash --> GTC --> PLEX --> ISK is CCP selling isk, it's just got some extra steps so some smart arse lawyer doesn't start clamoring for us to start paying tax on our isk irl.
CCP isn't selling isk. They're selling something that can be exchanged for isk through a self balancing game mechanic.
The differences may be subtle but they are important, and not only for the reason you offered:
1st Isk is not created by the transaction, which would dilute the value of isk and fuel inflation. The isk exchanged for the plex already exists within the game and is owned by another player.
2nd By trading plex across a player market, there is no fixed $$$ to isk ratio. If plex for isk becomes too popular, you get fewer isk for your RL money. If grind to play becomes too popular, then it costs progressively more isk to play.
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