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![Klerissa Ming Klerissa Ming](https://images.evetech.net/characters/1715225413/portrait?size=64)
Klerissa Ming
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Posted - 2010.12.11 07:21:00 -
[1]
If CCP really wanted a popular game.... They would make a PVE model and server of EVE, then at least they would get more than 40-50k people online at any given time, right now EVE caters to the griefers so much and has such a low player base it can't afford to do any real content. They rely on people shooting at each other, having little more than a FPS because of its gross lack of any content that would keep any real MMO player interested. The rest of the people playing are on the tread mill and don't realize yet that EVE is the royal price to the throne of tread mills and will soon quit the game like sooo many new players do.
The worst part is CCP would never make a server like this though because for one CCP is afraid of any real success, their servers would die and they know it, the game would fall on its face and they would have to shard it for it to work with any type of real player base. Think about it, its taken 6 years for EVE to double its concurrent online player numbers from when I played in 2005. That's some pretty poor growth and really can't even be compared to any typical successful MMO by todays standards.
Don't get me wrong, I'm a fan of EVE, just not CCP, I feel they are failing miserably at making EVE into anything that can be successful enough to allow the game to grow and be anything more than what its been for the last 8 years. I played in beta and on and off through the years, wanting EVE to be what its capable of being, sure some mechanics have changed, but there really isn't anything REALLY new, ground breaking, game evolving ever been added to EVE. We get some new ships, we get to live out of towers, like a space fairing race couldn't come up with something better than a tower with all its ridiculous restrictions in which all the wormhole content was built around. Nothing like punishing your player base with content that's even more annoying and more logistics heavy than the game already was. Stations are nothing more than temporary places you store stuff until they are lost and then more logistics hit you in the face.
I'd love to see EVE grow but to be honest, they are so reluctant to change, the game will stagnate until it dies. The only people left will be those people that lack any social skills and can't function with other humans, which happen to also play video games. The thought of that would scare me to death if I were trying to run a successful, and profitable company.
GL CCP your going to need it.
Ohh and for those that troll, no I didn't lose all my stuff, I'm plenty wealthy, and lived in both empire and 0.0, have multiple accounts and enjoyed the tread mill for a couple of years until there was just no point anymore. But I won't rob you of your fun, feel free to flame away, my apologies though for it landing on deaf ears. This message is for CCP from someone that has spent a lot of time in the MMO business. Although it saddens me for such potential to be wasted. CCP may survive forever nipping at the crumbs it gets but its the players that lose in the end, that part saddens me most of all, and I don't say that about anyone that plays now, I say it to all those potential players that CCP could have had, but because of their narrow minded approach and unwillingness to expand the game, we lost. Its all those players that are now gone that hurt us because they were small pieces to the puzzle that could have helped us enjoy a much better EVE than we have today. So much potential, so little vision, and even less creativity.
I know many of you are thinking Incarta is exactly the change your referring to, but is it? Will it change the foundation of the game so it will be acceptable to a larger player base? No, its a new paint job on a game that has shown over the past 8 years that it completely lacks what it takes to be anything other than very small niche MMO with a player base that's the lowest in the industry.
Farewell
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![Blane Xero Blane Xero](https://images.evetech.net/characters/969767320/portrait?size=64)
Blane Xero
Amarr The Firestorm Cartel
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Posted - 2010.12.11 07:24:00 -
[2]
Originally by: Klerissa Ming If CCP really wanted a popular game.... They would make a PVE model and server of EVE
And it would be boring and people would quit, not to mention the economy would not work. Next thread please! _____________________________________ Haruhiist since December 2008
Originally by: CCP Fallout Been there. Done that. Need antibiotics.
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![Tippia Tippia](https://images.evetech.net/characters/1938874952/portrait?size=64)
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2010.12.11 07:28:00 -
[3]
Ahhà nothing like a good "no true Scotsman" fallacy to start the day. ![Laughing](/images/icon_lol.gif) ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
![Skulldilocks Skulldilocks](https://images.evetech.net/characters/90098440/portrait?size=64)
Skulldilocks
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Posted - 2010.12.11 07:29:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Skulldilocks on 11/12/2010 07:29:23
Originally by: Blane Xero
Originally by: Klerissa Ming If CCP really wanted a popular game.... They would make a PVE model and server of EVE
And it would be boring and people would quit, not to mention the economy would not work. Next thread please!
WoW's playerbase would like a word with you.
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![Blane Xero Blane Xero](https://images.evetech.net/characters/969767320/portrait?size=64)
Blane Xero
Amarr The Firestorm Cartel
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Posted - 2010.12.11 07:33:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Skulldilocks Edited by: Skulldilocks on 11/12/2010 07:29:23
Originally by: Blane Xero
Originally by: Klerissa Ming If CCP really wanted a popular game.... They would make a PVE model and server of EVE
And it would be boring and people would quit, not to mention the economy would not work. Next thread please!
WoW's playerbase would like a word with you.
WoW is built around PvE content. Eve is not. What, exactly, would you do in a PvE eve? Missions? Complexes? to what purpose? Isk? Why? Expensive, fancy ships? Why?
Also, without PvP, the industrial side of the game collapses. So few ships going boom = less demand for modules. Eve is, quite literally, built around PvP. Take it away and it's like taking the oxygen out of earth. _____________________________________ Haruhiist since December 2008
Originally by: CCP Fallout Been there. Done that. Need antibiotics.
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![Skulldilocks Skulldilocks](https://images.evetech.net/characters/90098440/portrait?size=64)
Skulldilocks
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Posted - 2010.12.11 07:36:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Blane Xero
Originally by: Skulldilocks Edited by: Skulldilocks on 11/12/2010 07:29:23
Originally by: Blane Xero
Originally by: Klerissa Ming If CCP really wanted a popular game.... They would make a PVE model and server of EVE
And it would be boring and people would quit, not to mention the economy would not work. Next thread please!
WoW's playerbase would like a word with you.
WoW is built around PvE content. Eve is not. What, exactly, would you do in a PvE eve? Missions? Complexes? to what purpose? Isk? Why? Expensive, fancy ships? Why?
Also, without PvP, the industrial side of the game collapses. So few ships going boom = less demand for modules. Eve is, quite literally, built around PvP. Take it away and it's like taking the oxygen out of earth.
Incursion would also like a word with you. No one is talking about taking PvP away, OP might have but it was a little TLDR. There needs to be more meaningful PvE though because sometimes people get sick of being blobbed by supercaps.
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![Culmen Culmen](https://images.evetech.net/characters/631663143/portrait?size=64)
Culmen
Caldari Blood Phage Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.12.11 07:38:00 -
[7]
If CCP wants a real popular game. They wouldn't make a wow clone in space.
See Star Trek: Online for what you get when that happens. and further more why do i even need a sig? |
![Blane Xero Blane Xero](https://images.evetech.net/characters/969767320/portrait?size=64)
Blane Xero
Amarr The Firestorm Cartel
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Posted - 2010.12.11 07:42:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Skulldilocks
Originally by: Blane Xero
Originally by: Skulldilocks Edited by: Skulldilocks on 11/12/2010 07:29:23
Originally by: Blane Xero And it would be boring and people would quit, not to mention the economy would not work. Next thread please!
WoW's playerbase would like a word with you.
WoW is built around PvE content. Eve is not. What, exactly, would you do in a PvE eve? Missions? Complexes? to what purpose? Isk? Why? Expensive, fancy ships? Why?
Also, without PvP, the industrial side of the game collapses. So few ships going boom = less demand for modules. Eve is, quite literally, built around PvP. Take it away and it's like taking the oxygen out of earth.
Incursion would also like a word with you. No one is talking about taking PvP away, OP might have but it was a little TLDR. There needs to be more meaningful PvE though because sometimes people get sick of being blobbed by supercaps.
The entire basis of the original post is built around the opening line that CCP should make a PVE model and server of Eve. Destroy that, and the rest of the post falls on its face.
Eve works because of how it is built. PvP is the foundation for it, and altering its significance in any way will, for all extents and purposes, destroy [Or at the very least, have a significant negative impact on] eve.
I'm all for more meaningful PvE, however you don't post suggestions for that and have your opening line ask for a PvE server. _____________________________________ Haruhiist since December 2008
Originally by: CCP Fallout Been there. Done that. Need antibiotics.
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![MotherMoon MotherMoon](https://images.evetech.net/characters/202990180/portrait?size=64)
MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
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Posted - 2010.12.11 07:44:00 -
[9]
you do realize that eve is the 3rd most popular pay to play mmo on the market right?
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![Tippia Tippia](https://images.evetech.net/characters/1938874952/portrait?size=64)
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2010.12.11 07:46:00 -
[10]
Originally by: MotherMoon you do realize that eve is the 3rd most popular pay to play mmo on the market right?
Of course he does ù it wouldn't be a true true Scotsman fallacy if he didn'tà ![Wink](/images/icon_wink.gif) ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
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![Destination SkillQueue Destination SkillQueue](https://images.evetech.net/characters/199860708/portrait?size=64)
Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
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Posted - 2010.12.11 08:05:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Destination SkillQueue on 11/12/2010 08:09:24
I'm going to have to paraphrase the OP here or there is no room left to reply.
Quote: EVE hasn't real content
You mean CCP can't offer real content like grinding helpless NPCs all day? It might not be your type of pointless NPC grinding, but EVE does have that too.
Quote: EVE needs PvE servers to succeed. Other succesful MMOs do much better.
Well except EVE can't work with a pure PvE. If you had actually bothered to learn how the game works you would know that. But I guess with your definition of content, your ignorance here is to be expected. EVE's concurrent player record in 2005 was 17k. The current record is 60k. That's about 3.5 times the number of concurrent players.
I would like to know what other full price MMOs are you talking about when comparing numbers. That growth is pretty good compared to everything except WoW. Most other mainstream MMOs have lost most of their initial players in the first year of operation up to 80-90% losses in worst cases with a few deaths and have full subscription numbers much lower than EVE.
Quote: I'm a fan of EVE.
No you're not. You don't like EVE and everything you write shows that. What you would like based on your complaints is a game, that is almost the polar opposite of EVE in everything that separates EVE from you average MMO.
Quote: EVE is dying and stagnant.
It always is, but here we are after over 7 years with more players than ever and next years we are looking forward to expanding the game in to areas that haven't previously exixted in the game. The only stagnant part has been the mission grinding and ratting, but if you just enjoy grinding NPCs and getting uber loot, you are better of playing diablo 3 or something similar.
Quote: Bitter bitter ending tears.
You seem to give loads of advice even though you lack basic knowledge of the MMO market even the average MMO player knows. What you are missing is, that those crumbs CCP collects actually provide more players and money than the average MMO will ever see. Most MMOs are far, far less succesful than EVE. Yes those that cater to your type of players can't usually even compete with a game, that is basicly in your eyes a failed MMO, like EVE. I can understand you not liking EVE, since you seem to like more fluffy and forgiving gameplay, but you're mistaking your personal preferance as some kind of objective measurement of success.
Good luck in finding a game more suited to your taste. You shouldn't have a problem though. Almost every other MMO is just like you wanted, but as a smart MMO veteran surely you already knew that and only played EVE for years enduring the pain and just waiting for CCP to see the light and alter the game for your personal taste.
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![Frug Frug](https://images.evetech.net/characters/215960015/portrait?size=64)
Frug
Omega Wing Snatch Victory
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Posted - 2010.12.11 08:17:00 -
[12]
If they made a PvE server so that morons like you could go join it, they would lose subscriptions from people like me who enjoy blowing you up and hearing you whine a lot about it.
Having scrubs like you around to shoot at adds value to the game for other people. While you don't like it, we sure do. Tough beans. That's Eve.
- - - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - If you think I'm awesome say BOOO BOOO!! - Ductoris Neat look what I found - Kreul Whisper/PrismX 4 emperor |
![Antihrist Pripravnik Antihrist Pripravnik](https://images.evetech.net/characters/1438645541/portrait?size=64)
Antihrist Pripravnik
4S Corporation Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2010.12.11 08:42:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Klerissa Ming If CCP really wanted a popular game.... They would make a PVE model and server of EVE
That is the exact reason why I play only EVE - it doesn't have PvE server.
Originally by: Klerissa Ming Farewell
Farewell... uhmm... your stuff?
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![Vaal Erit Vaal Erit](https://images.evetech.net/characters/720103982/portrait?size=64)
Vaal Erit
Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2010.12.11 09:08:00 -
[14]
This is weird because that is a very well written whine post.
I don't understand why you want EVE to be just like every other game on the MMORPG market. Why don't you just play one of them? CCP makes the game they want to play and the game they think is fun. You want CCP to create a game that they hate?
And EVE has grown much more than double in 6 years. 5 years ago the total number of active accounts was 70k and now its ~300-350k so that's easily 4x-5x growth in 5 years which any other MMORPG would die for. - It's not "Play through a pre-set story, become stronger, do endgame". Gameplay is open ended, and you make your own story. Unless you're too afraid of 'pvp grief' to do anything relevant |
![MotherMoon MotherMoon](https://images.evetech.net/characters/202990180/portrait?size=64)
MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
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Posted - 2010.12.11 09:16:00 -
[15]
Hey op would you rather eve have the success of warhammer?
lord of rings online?
age of conan?
final fantasy 11/14?
city of heros?
newsflash, eve is more popular than all of those mmos.
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![svetlana svetlana](https://images.evetech.net/characters/147511170/portrait?size=64)
svetlana
Constellation Guard
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Posted - 2010.12.11 09:19:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Klerissa Ming If CCP really wanted a popular game....
They never wanted a 'popular game', they wanted to make a good game, there's a big difference.
Originally by: Klerissa Ming
Don't get me wrong, I'm a fan of EVE...
Your post complains about every core concept of the game called EVE, ie. single server non-sharded universe non-consentual pvp. It's always been like this so NO you are not a fan of EVE no matter how you try to dress it up or trick your memory-- you're a fan of some other kind of game that this never was and for some reason continued to play it without anyone forcing you to do so.
Originally by: Klerissa Ming
I'd love to see EVE grow...
You claim to have been around since beta, that means you have witnessed with your own eyes continued growth over an incredible 7 years... so you already have seen it... which must confound your logic since according to you this should not have been possible, yet it was.
The only problem here is that you are playing the wrong game. That it took you so long to figure that out is the bigger question.
Most MMO's that chase after the pve model that wow is king of last about two years, then have to start collapsing their servers due to a lack of players, before ultimately shuttering. That PVE model is already proven a short term win, long term failure.
CCP successfuly avoids that trap by making a unique game they like to play, catering to the type of gamer who enjoys a change from something like wow- and remaining fiercely independent minded. I hope they never change that.
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![CCP StevieSG CCP StevieSG](https://images.evetech.net/characters/236638396/portrait?size=64)
CCP StevieSG
![](/images/icon_dev.gif)
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Posted - 2010.12.11 09:23:00 -
[17]
Moved to Features and Ideas from EVE General
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![Lemmy Kravitz Lemmy Kravitz](https://images.evetech.net/characters/1119642968/portrait?size=64)
Lemmy Kravitz
Minmatar Rebirth.
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Posted - 2010.12.11 09:52:00 -
[18]
Hello kitty online called. Can I have your stuff? ------------------------------------------------- "Vae Victis" -Brennus |
![Aeronwen Carys Aeronwen Carys](https://images.evetech.net/characters/948470055/portrait?size=64)
Aeronwen Carys
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Posted - 2010.12.11 09:54:00 -
[19]
Just felt like responding to some of your "points"
"If CCP really wanted a popular game"
They already have one thanks, see numerous awards etc
"Think about it, its taken 6 years for EVE to double its concurrent online player numbers from when I played in 2005"
so its 6 years since 2005? Math fail, well done.
"That's some pretty poor growth and really can't even be compared to any typical successful MMO by todays standards"
There ARE no other games like EVE out there, so comparing it to any others is pointless.
"Don't get me wrong, I'm a fan of EVE"
You clearly aren't or you wouldn't be asking for such a humungous change to its core premise.
"I played in beta and on and off through the years, wanting EVE to be what its capable of being, sure some mechanics have changed, but there really isn't anything REALLY new, ground breaking, game evolving ever been added to EVE"
Oh, because the content added to WoW has completely altered the face of the MMO industry right? And all those "AMAZING NEW MMO's" that have come out in the last 5-8 years have all done spectacularly well haven't they?
"I know many of you are thinking Incarta is exactly the change your referring to, but is it? Will it change the foundation of the game so it will be acceptable to a larger player base? No, its a new paint job on a game that has shown over the past 8 years that it completely lacks what it takes to be anything other than very small niche MMO with a player base that's the lowest in the industry"
First off its INCARNA, not Incarta. Secondly while it might not change the foundation of the game, it is ADDING to it. And yes, it will make EvE acceptable to a much larger playerbase, a lot of people are put off by EvE's lack of human/biological entity as an avatar. And lastly the fact that EvE is a niche MMO is precisely WHY it has continued to grow, and will keep on growing. If it's rate of growth isn't to your liking I suggest you go elsewhere.
Oh, and by the way, couldn't help noticing....
"We get some new ships, we get to live out of towers, like a space fairing race couldn't come up with something better than a tower with all its ridiculous restrictions in which all the wormhole content was built around. Nothing like punishing your player base with content that's even more annoying and more logistics heavy than the game already was. Stations are nothing more than temporary places you store stuff until they are lost and then more logistics hit you in the face"
You got wtfpwnd in your wormhole and this whole post was nothing but a poorly constructed stealth whine, -10 internets for you sir.
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![Ascendic Ascendic](https://images.evetech.net/characters/596394699/portrait?size=64)
Ascendic
Lyonesse. Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2010.12.11 10:05:00 -
[20]
Did it ever occur to you that maybe CCP doesnt care about making it popular and wants to create a different environment and NOT another cookie-cutter MMO you fukin idiot?
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![Dxella mkII Dxella mkII](https://images.evetech.net/characters/90054543/portrait?size=64)
Dxella mkII
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Posted - 2010.12.11 11:12:00 -
[21]
Eve is like a house,
Industrial is like the footing of the house PvE is like the walls of the house PvP is like the Roof of the house,
Remove one from it and u dont have a house anymore....
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![Cearain Cearain](https://images.evetech.net/characters/830303370/portrait?size=64)
Cearain
Caldari The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION
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Posted - 2010.12.11 12:03:00 -
[22]
Its eve's pvp that makes the game. It's really perfect. It involves planning, thinking on your feet durring a battle without being twitchy, requires some in game skills but mostly you learn from experience.
I highly recomend you try to learn it. Once you do you will see why so many people think you don't get it.
Perhaps they would get tons of 10 year olds playing if it had more pve. But dumbing eve down would mean fewer long term subscriptions. -Cearain
Make fw occupancy pvp instead of pve: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1329906 |
![Fistme Fistme](https://images.evetech.net/characters/230269468/portrait?size=64)
Fistme
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Posted - 2010.12.11 13:11:00 -
[23]
Originally by: MotherMoon Hey op would you rather eve have the success of warhammer?
lord of rings online?
age of conan?
final fantasy 11/14?
city of heros?
newsflash, eve is more popular than all of those mmos.
everything here looks good other than the 11 refrance. Up untill recent history ffxi had one of the highest pops of any game, ffxiv on the other hand is a steaming pile of pve bull ****.
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![Anatheria Anatheria](https://images.evetech.net/characters/191894544/portrait?size=64)
Anatheria
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Posted - 2010.12.11 14:22:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Blane Xero
WoW is built around PvE content. Eve is not. What, exactly, would you do in a PvE eve? Missions? Complexes? to what purpose? Isk? Why? Expensive, fancy ships? Why?
I'd just like to ask... What's WoW got that EvE doesnt? In WoW you PvE so you can get epics, so you can PvE more efficiently..So you can get more epics... Sort of like in EvE you PvE to get better ships so you can...PvE better.
You can wrap it up all you want its still the same thing. Now the thing that EvE has that WoW doesn't is fun pvp and a dynamic world.
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![William Cooly William Cooly](https://images.evetech.net/characters/1215245297/portrait?size=64)
William Cooly
Sol Enterprises
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Posted - 2010.12.11 18:08:00 -
[25]
Posting in a troll thread. -
I troll stupid people. |
![Junkie Babe Junkie Babe](https://images.evetech.net/characters/1483940582/portrait?size=64)
Junkie Babe
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Posted - 2010.12.11 19:14:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Junkie Babe on 11/12/2010 19:16:08
Originally by: Blane Xero
WoW is built around PvE content. Eve is not. What, exactly, would you do in a PvE eve? Missions? Complexes? to what purpose? Isk? Why? Expensive, fancy ships? Why?
Also, without PvP, the industrial side of the game collapses. So few ships going boom = less demand for modules. Eve is, quite literally, built around PvP. Take it away and it's like taking the oxygen out of earth.
Eve is built around the market not pvp but without pvp the market would collapse eventually, without ship and modules losses demand for ships and modules would go down and the market would be flooded with supply and their prices would tumble, with ships and modules being worth increasing less mineral prices would tumble followed by ore prices.
In a PVE servor the market would eventually collapse and ratting/missioning would be the only thing worth doing.
Thank you
Regards Junkie babe |
![Kabaal S'sylistha Kabaal S'sylistha](https://images.evetech.net/characters/1555325852/portrait?size=64)
Kabaal S'sylistha
Caldari Technomage Trilogy Comrades-Of-Two
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Posted - 2010.12.11 20:02:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Anatheria
Originally by: Blane Xero
WoW is built around PvE content. Eve is not. What, exactly, would you do in a PvE eve? Missions? Complexes? to what purpose? Isk? Why? Expensive, fancy ships? Why?
I'd just like to ask... What's WoW got that EvE doesnt? In WoW you PvE so you can get epics, so you can PvE more efficiently..So you can get more epics... Sort of like in EvE you PvE to get better ships so you can...PvE better.
You can wrap it up all you want its still the same thing. Now the thing that EvE has that WoW doesn't is fun pvp and a dynamic world.
I've never really had 'fun' PvE'ing in Eve. I have in WoW. I've also been ganked (successfully or not) in WoW doing PvE more. As for PvP itself, I've had different 'kinds' of fun in both. WoW offers up more structured and tactical PvP, Eve is really more PK than PvP and strategic.
Not saying the OP has a clue, but addressing your question specifically. WoW isn't perfect, but there is a reason it's the #1 MMO in sales that isn't solely 'noobs can't handle Eve harshness'. It does play in of course, as the OP has demonstrated. -More Pewpew, Less QQ- |
![Stig Sterling Stig Sterling](https://images.evetech.net/characters/1757826333/portrait?size=64)
Stig Sterling
Gallente Aliastra
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Posted - 2010.12.11 20:11:00 -
[28]
I wont even start on the whole PVP/PVE/Market value thing, every other reply in this thread had that.
But I will tell you a story;
A long time ago (seven years), a new game was introduced. It was a MMORPG (massively multiplayer online role-playing game). There were many MMORPG's before it, and they all had one thing in common: they operated of multiple servers. This way they were able to handle the large number of people playing the game.
Then some mighty warriors from Iceland gathered, and started making their own MMORPG. But unlike the other ones, the decided to build the whole world on One Server!
The people scoffed at them "you'll never make it work!". Theories abounded about how miserably this game would fail. But the day of truth arrived, and the single shard universe proved itself to be a success! And there was much joy!
Now seven years later, that MMORPG continues to grow, and set records as well. The single shard is something that only a few MMO's have pulled off, and EVE was the only one to truly be successful at it. In fact, they have had over 50,000 concurrent users online, on a single server. That feat has not been repeated by any other game. Hundreds of people have dedicated their time and resources to make this happen, and they continue to make breakthroughs in the gaming world by expanding this universe in a way that no one else on the industry could do...
And now you want them to open up a second server?
WTF!?!?
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![William Cooly William Cooly](https://images.evetech.net/characters/1215245297/portrait?size=64)
William Cooly
Sol Enterprises
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Posted - 2010.12.11 20:16:00 -
[29]
ITT: People tell the OP how stupid he is and why. -
I troll stupid people. |
![De'Veldrin De'Veldrin](https://images.evetech.net/characters/111238762/portrait?size=64)
De'Veldrin
Minmatar Green-Core The Obsidian Legion
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Posted - 2010.12.12 00:42:00 -
[30]
Originally by: William Cooly ITT: People tell the OP how stupid he is and why.
Also ITT: The OP fails to understand their point. --Vel
I'm more of a care-badger. |
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