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MunnyRabbit
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
3
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Posted - 2012.08.11 21:20:00 -
[1] - Quote
High: Auto target II X2 Tach Beam Laser t2 X4
Medium Tracking computer t2 X2 Em hardener T2 Therm hardener T2 Dread Gurista Shield Boost Amp Gist C-type X-Large shield booster Heavy Cap Booster T2
Low: Heat Sink T2 X4 Tracking Enhancer T2
Rigs: Large Cap Control Unit I X3
911 dps with imp navy Multis with 43 optimal which can be changed with the scripts in the tracking computer.I dont think is horrible I am pretty sure the guns are cap stable. I am not looking for a expensive as i do not want to be a huge gank target and with this fit i dont believe i really am but i will say i am going to improve it eventually use a afterburner maybe.
This does around 300 more dps than my CNR but that is due to the fact im not willing to use the A-type medium shield booster that costs way to much.
What do you guys think for a starting nightmare? |
Reppyk
The Black Shell
146
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Posted - 2012.08.11 22:02:00 -
[2] - Quote
That's an excellent fit and you should not pimp it more than this.
I would advise you to swap a CCC rig for a Large Energy Discharge Elutriation II, it doesnt need much skills and they are cheap. It will lower your cap booster consumption. |
Daniel Plain
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
289
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Posted - 2012.08.11 22:17:00 -
[3] - Quote
Reppyk wrote:That's an excellent fit and you should not pimp it more than this.
I would advise you to swap a CCC rig for a Large Energy Discharge Elutriation II, it doesnt need much skills and they are cheap. It will lower your cap booster consumption. this. even with faction guns (which use a lot less cap than T2), CCCs are hardly better than EDEs, especially not the T2 ones. also, the tank seems a little on the weak side to me but you might get by. if not, throw in another EM hardener.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings" -MXZF |
Idicious Lightbane
Angry Mustellid Iron Oxide.
24
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Posted - 2012.08.11 22:38:00 -
[4] - Quote
I'd faction the heat sinks, it will give a noticable dps boost. |
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
605
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Posted - 2012.08.11 23:21:00 -
[5] - Quote
The second autotargeter isn't doing anything for you. If you need the fitting space just drop it and leave a slot empty. Otherwise find something else (tractor beam, faction nos, something). |
Daniel Plain
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
289
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Posted - 2012.08.11 23:44:00 -
[6] - Quote
Zhilia Mann wrote:The second autotargeter isn't doing anything for you. If you need the fitting space just drop it and leave a slot empty. Otherwise find something else (tractor beam, faction nos, something). personally, i'm a fan of drone link augmentors. a NOS is also useful if you have the PG.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings" -MXZF |
Siyis Rholh
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
7
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Posted - 2012.08.12 01:34:00 -
[7] - Quote
Disclaimer: I haven't flown this, I modified my existing rainy day EFT warrior nightmare setup to match yours closer as a suggested change.
[Nightmare, Flar] Heat Sink II Heat Sink II Heat Sink II Heat Sink II Tracking Enhancer II
Thermic Dissipation Field II EM Ward Field II Gist C-Type X-Large Shield Booster Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800 Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script Caldari Navy Shield Boost Amplifier
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L Drone Link Augmentor I Auto Targeting System II
Large Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer II Large Energy Discharge Elutriation II Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Hammerhead II x5 Hobgoblin II x5
Drop the tracking enhancer for a DCU2 or a tracking enchancer for an invulnerability field for more tank. The numbers are fairly close for what you gain and lose and I advise you to look at them yourself to figure out what you prefer if you do want more tank. The EM rig brings EM resistance slightly above thermal instead of trailing significantly. The difference in EM resistance between the T1 and T2 rig is 2%. If you use a T1 EM rig you can switch the CCC for the T2 version but the latter is fairly expensive. I'll add my fandom of drone link augmentors to Daniel Plain's - you don't always get to use the extra range but when you do you're quite grateful for it, plus the Nightmare has generous CPU so you might as well throw one on.
This fit works on just skills but if you want to throw in an AB later on you might have to use a pg hardwiring to make it work. My EFT says a 4% hardwiring is needed with all skills at V if you use T2 AB. Using a lower pg AB (Fed Navy f.e.) lowers it to 3% and using a faction Cap Booster (Imperial Navy f.e.) lowers it further to 2%.
This setup is not cap stable with guns but has a fairly okay time to deplete (>10min). With the dps this puts out I imagine you'll be fine. If you ever have to run the shield booster much you'll likely need to use a few cap boosters anyway, so. Turn off all modules while slowboating to next gate, go afk and make coffee and you'll be all ready to laser by the time you get there. |
MunnyRabbit
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
3
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Posted - 2012.08.12 02:44:00 -
[8] - Quote
Daniel Plain wrote:Reppyk wrote:That's an excellent fit and you should not pimp it more than this.
I would advise you to swap a CCC rig for a Large Energy Discharge Elutriation II, it doesnt need much skills and they are cheap. It will lower your cap booster consumption. this. even with faction guns (which use a lot less cap than T2), CCCs are hardly better than EDEs, especially not the T2 ones. also, the tank seems a little on the weak side to me but you might get by. if not, throw in another EM hardener.
The reason i use CCCs over EDEs is because if i use even one EDE im thrown over the powergrid cap and i believe i have very good almost optimal powergrid skills i will have to look at them again. |
Siyis Rholh
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
8
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Posted - 2012.08.12 03:47:00 -
[9] - Quote
MunnyRabbit wrote:The reason i use CCCs over EDEs is because if i use even one EDE im thrown over the powergrid cap and i believe i have very good almost optimal powergrid skills i will have to look at them again. I could investigate adding a PG implant
Without knowing anything about your character I'd hazard you're missing something like Advanced Weapons Upgrades IV or V and/or a few levels in Energy Weapons Rigging (this is probably what you're missing if you have the general PG skills (including AWU) at V as it reduces the drawback of the EDE which is increased power requirement for the guns). Modifying the all skills at V preset in EFT down to AWU IV and Energy Weapons Rigging IV shows a +3% PG implant is required to make the fit I posted work.
You could also look into the suggestion I made earlier for getting an AB to fit about using a faction or T1 Heavy Cap Booster - the advantage of either being a lower pg requirement. Both faction and T1 versions have lower capacity (as in, space for loaded cap boosters) which works out to 4 loaded Cap Booster 800s compared to 5 for the T2 Heavy Cap Booster. T1 has the same cycle time as T2 and faction have slightly faster cycle time but if my price info is correct the faction ones aren't too expensive (not in game at the moment, can't check). Depending on your skills it will probably not save you from using a PG hardwiring but it should allow you to use a cheaper one. If you intend to get an AB later you might wish to get both a better PG hardwiring straight away and use a lower PG cap booster - you'll have to determine that for yourself.
If for simplicity's sake we say that the resistance numbers for shield are equal between DCU2 and a invulnerability field you're left looking at losing the extra tracking a tracking enhancer gives over a tracking computer (since the numbers for optimal and falloff are the same assuming you're running optimal scripts on the tracking computers) for the lower cap use and extra resistances a DCU gives compared to the invulnerability field. Looking at it that way I'd personally go with a DCU2 considering that the Nightmare already has very generous increases to tracking from the Amarr Battleship Skill Bonus - and you can still carry a spare tracking script or two that you can switch in on the fly if you ever find that you absolutely need more tracking.
Edit: I might or might not have armor tanked with only a DCU2 to help me on my current mission ship (shield tanked SNI) because it was less hassle and time to offline all weapons and fit four cheap large armor reppers at mission station and repair the damage (goes obscenely fast) after mission was cleared than warp out before I hit armor and wait for cap/shield regen. Cough. :) |
MunnyRabbit
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
3
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Posted - 2012.08.12 04:02:00 -
[10] - Quote
Yea i have AWU 5 and am missing the rigging skill for the EDE so that would cause problems and looking at eft i would need the implant which is a possible buy for me we will see EFT is my friend currently hah |
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Lugalzagezi666
56
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Posted - 2012.08.12 09:14:00 -
[11] - Quote
You could try dual x large asb fit buddy - it certainly tanks better than gist xlsb and for less money (not that anything over t2 xlsb and hardeners is necessary for l4s if you have good skills and single xlasb would prolly be enough for 95% of missions).
Also auto targeting system is very good choice for utility high and tractor beam is worth it too. |
Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
181
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Posted - 2012.08.12 10:20:00 -
[12] - Quote
yea that fit should work just fine, I'd just swap the booster for a cheaper one and get faction heat sinks. and an auto targeter for a tractor beam. also I'd buy an afterburner, most of the time I fly mine with one tracking comp and an afterburner instead of 2 tcs. faster to gates \o/ |
Siyis Rholh
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
8
|
Posted - 2012.08.12 11:50:00 -
[13] - Quote
Lugalzagezi666 wrote:You could try dual x large asb fit buddy - it certainly tanks better than gist xlsb and for less money (not that anything over t2 xlsb and hardeners is necessary for l4s if you have good skills and single xlasb would prolly be enough for 95% of missions).
Also auto targeting system is very good choice for utility high and tractor beam is worth it too.
This guy has a very good point actually. A dual XLASB fit is much tighter on CPU because they require 200 CPU each though but there's a whole myriad ways you can solve that.
Quote:[Nightmare, Bargain Bin] Heat Sink II Heat Sink II Heat Sink II Tracking Enhancer II Damage Control II
EM Ward Field II Thermic Dissipation Field II X-Large Ancillary Shield Booster, Cap Booster 400 X-Large Ancillary Shield Booster, Cap Booster 400 'Copasetic' Particle Field Acceleration Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L [empty high slot] Auto Targeting System I
Large Energy Discharge Elutriation II Large Energy Discharge Elutriation II Large Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Absolutely requires everything related to CPU maxed (though since there's no rigs increasing CPU I can't see that this means anything else than Electronics V and vanilla Weapon Upgrades V) and a +5% CPU hardwiring even with the empty high slot but is probably one of the cheapest possible ways to fit a Nightmare well.
Quote:[Nightmare, Plus Some] Imperial Navy Heat Sink Imperial Navy Heat Sink Imperial Navy Heat Sink Tracking Enhancer II Damage Control II
EM Ward Field II Thermic Dissipation Field II X-Large Ancillary Shield Booster, Cap Booster 400 X-Large Ancillary Shield Booster, Cap Booster 400 Shield Boost Amplifier II Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L [empty high slot] Auto Targeting System I
Large Energy Discharge Elutriation II Large Energy Discharge Elutriation II Large Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Faction upgrades where they do the most good (heat sinks) and hardwiring needed is down to a +3% CPU one.
You can also drop the shield boost amplifier in the second fit for a T2 SeBo and you won't need a hardwiring at all (and you have enough spare CPU to fit a regular tractor beam if you get any use out of those). If you do that and add back a Drone Link Augmenter (instead of a tractor beam) in the high you'll need a +3% CPU hardwiring again - unless you get lower CPU faction hardeners (Cal Navy / Dread Guristas). Might not be worth the price unless you badly want something else in hardwiring slot 6 since the lower CPU faction ones have the same resistances as T2.
You can also drop the shield boost amplifier in the second fit for an AB but that requires Energy Weapons Rigging at V if you wish to keep both EDEIIs - yes you can drop one for a CCC and get away with lower rigging skill but the difference in time to deplete cap is significant (EFT says -5 min for a CCCII and -7min for regular CCC). The only way I can see to make it work with Energy Weapons Rigging IV is to use faction shield hardeners, leave an empty high slot to meet CPU reqs without a hardwiring and use a +3% PG hardwiring instead but again that's a fairly high price to pay for fitting.
In both of these cases (using faction hardeners to make fits work) the only previously unmentioned benefit is that they use very slightly less cap than T2 that makes for a few minutes difference in time to deplete (~20min vs ~18min using T2s).
If you drop one XLASB you can fit basically whatever you want and you should have no CPU issues (or PG if you get an AB).
Regardless of what you choose to do with a dual XLASB fit it'll likely end up being at least half a billion cheaper than any fit using a Gist C-Type XL booster.
@Chainsaw Plankton: The problem is that non-Gist shield boosters are several orders of magnitude behind them in efficiency. The Gist C-type base stats are +525 shield hp for 179 cap. That's nearly 3 hp per point of cap. T2 and all faction shield boosters are 1.5 hp per cap (+600 hp for 400 cap) - the faction ones just have faster cycle times. The Pith series shield boosters have same cap use as T2/faction and bigger boost amount but not nearly enough to rival the Gist series in efficiency - the Pith X-type at 840 shield hp for 400 cap comes closest at 2.1 shield hp per point of cap. |
Lugalzagezi666
56
|
Posted - 2012.08.12 12:08:00 -
[14] - Quote
You can easily solve cpu issues by fitting faction heatsinks (that are best spent isks for nightmare anyway) and maybe some cheap faction hardeners. Overall you will save maybe 500 mil and still have better tank than gist c xlarge booster.
And with 2 t2 elutriation rigs you will be able to shoot in mf nonstop for 18 minutes - thats 3-5 minutes more than this fit needs for fully clearing blockade. |
Stetson Eagle
ROC Academy The ROC
28
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Posted - 2012.08.12 12:37:00 -
[15] - Quote
Needs faction heat sinks before faction tank. I'd go as far as saying they add the same tank value. |
Grendaran
Celestial Tomb TOG - The Older Gamers Alliance
0
|
Posted - 2012.08.13 17:54:00 -
[16] - Quote
EHP - 150k Resists - 79 / 77 / 81 / 76 DPS - 913 Cap Stable with NOS running, 15 Mins without
Caution! Will Melt Level 4 Missions!
[Nightmare, Nightmare.Pulse.Shield.DPS.Faction]
4x Mega Pulse Laser II (Scorch L) Auto Targeting System II True Sansha Heavy Nosferatu
2x Tracking Computer II (Tracking Speed Script) Sensor Booster II (Scan Resolution Script) EM Ward Field II 2x Gistum C-Type Adaptive Invulnerability Field Large Shield Extender II
3x Imperial Navy Heat Sink Power Diagnostic System II Damage Control II
2x Large Core Defense Field Extender II Large Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer II
5x Warrior II 5x Warrior II |
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
606
|
Posted - 2012.08.13 18:06:00 -
[17] - Quote
Siyis Rholh wrote:Requires everything related to CPU maxed (though since there's no rigs increasing CPU I can't see that this means anything else than Electronics V and vanilla Weapon Upgrades V) and a +1% CPU hardwiring even with the empty high slot but is probably one of the cheapest possible ways to fit a Nightmare well. You can use a Shield Boost Amplifier instead of the SeBo but you'll need a better hardwiring for that - +5% for highest meta T1 and the low CPU faction ones or a 6% for T2 / higher CPU faction ones.
Bolded the part that demands comment: there are rigs that increase CPU. They're new, but the exist. Processor Overclocking Unit. 7.1% for T1 and 9.6% for T2. |
Siyis Rholh
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
9
|
Posted - 2012.08.14 02:32:00 -
[18] - Quote
Zhilia Mann wrote:Siyis Rholh wrote:Requires everything related to CPU maxed (though since there's no rigs increasing CPU I can't see that this means anything else than Electronics V and vanilla Weapon Upgrades V) and a +1% CPU hardwiring even with the empty high slot but is probably one of the cheapest possible ways to fit a Nightmare well. You can use a Shield Boost Amplifier instead of the SeBo but you'll need a better hardwiring for that - +5% for highest meta T1 and the low CPU faction ones or a 6% for T2 / higher CPU faction ones. Bolded the part that demands comment: there are rigs that increase CPU. They're new, but the exist. Processor Overclocking Unit. 7.1% for T1 and 9.6% for T2.
Apologies for the ambiguous wording, I meant that none of the rigs increased the CPU requirements of anything on the fit. Also implied, though very vaguely, was that it doesn't have any modules that are affected by Electronics Upgrades so the mentioned skills were the only ones that the OP should have to worry about (as a followup on previous mentions of skills). I probably only thought to mention it because a usually fly a missile boat for L4s and missile rigs have increased CPU reqs as drawback. Having a specific rigging skill at IV rather than V breaking an entire fit when you have all other relevant fitting skills maxed would be rather annoying. :p |
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