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Aphrodite Skripalle
Galactic Defence Consortium
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Posted - 2010.12.13 10:55:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Aphrodite Skripalle on 13/12/2010 10:56:45 http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=replyquote&threadID=1428495&line=124
Taking this very good idea and made a proposal out of it. "And btw, we have a "report isk seller" button, why don't we have a "report bot user"?"
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Black Dranzer
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Posted - 2010.12.13 11:26:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Black Dranzer on 13/12/2010 11:26:32 I have seen one isk spammer since that button was implemented.
|24 Hour Plex|Mining Makeover| |
Aphrodite Skripalle
Galactic Defence Consortium
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Posted - 2010.12.13 12:55:00 -
[3]
You are absolutly right, once ccp shows (like with this button), they really care about this, lots of people will think twice, if they use makros. At the moment everyone can see, that using macros will give no punishment at all. Maybe you risk a temporarily ban. Maybe. But this doesnt happen often. So why not using macros.
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Horizonist
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Posted - 2010.12.13 13:28:00 -
[4]
The link was broken, so I will post the content here:
Originally by: Aineko Macx Edited by: Aineko Macx on 12/12/2010 11:48:19
Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow Crippling botting would reduce RMT, and crippling RMT would reduce botting. They are significantly correlated, and thus not orthogonal variables.
Correlation does not imply non-orthogonality.
Quote: From a technical standpoint, bot detection and countermeasures are likely to be the most cost-effective way of going after the whole issue; it's a well-understood problem akin to spam-filtering.
Yes, but handling it with spam-like filters requires the building of behavior data for each player over time first so you can run your statistics on it. Because of the extra server and DB load I don't think this will happen. Unless you find a really small/readily available set of variables which strongly correlate with someone using bots and which could be stored with little overhead. Probably they'll go ahead with aggregating data from different detection methods which alone wouldn't be very effective, but at least easy to implement, and that combined yield a decent result.
And btw, we have a "report isk seller" button, why don't we have a "report bot user"?
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Reed Tiburon
Eve University Ivy League
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Posted - 2010.12.13 17:46:00 -
[5]
Why not.
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Lykouleon
Trust Doesn't Rust
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Posted - 2010.12.14 01:35:00 -
[6]
Considering ISK sellers are very vocal and bots are usually...not really vocal, the idea of a "report bot" button is not that great. The poor GM's would probably be wading their ways through piles and piles of reports for people that turn out to just be cases of them cloaking up in a system while AFK or not wanting to talk in local.
Its a great idea on paper, but the chance that they system would be abused out the wazoo and be filled with reports with little actual substance is far greater than reports for isk-seller spammers.
Quote: ImRedYoureDead > carebearing is when you make the other person's ship explode, right? ImRedYoureDead > I think they're officers or something ImRedYoureDead > they got names, they got to die |
Glyken Touchon
Independent Alchemists
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Posted - 2010.12.14 02:27:00 -
[7]
isk spammer is easy to check against logs.
an extra consideration for a bot button to work, is that it would have to generate a text box for you to enter the reason why you suspect the character to be botting.
Not unworkable, but something to think about
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Suitonia
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2010.12.14 03:06:00 -
[8]
Having a one-click button to report botters would be good. ---
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Alias 6322A
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Posted - 2010.12.15 04:06:00 -
[9]
This is a risky option because bot-reporting is much more difficult.
What if the player is afk mining? Or just went to the bathroom? Would you wait 3 minutes for a response from them? If someone bugged you if you were there, would you respond to some stranger?
I'd love to see bots taken down, but before such an option could be implemented CCP would have to instruct the player base on how to properly identify bots or potential bots and likely limit how often it could be used to prevent GM's being flooded with a time-consuming process - determining from the logs if a player was in fact a bot.
Somewhere there is a thread about a Dev-blog on botting, go to it and support it - perhaps CCP will implement a similar solution or at least inform players how it is going about dealing with bots.
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Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
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Posted - 2010.12.15 06:46:00 -
[10]
This proposal isn't ready to be voted up on yet.. at least some more details/options/ideas should be thrown around beforehand.
My opinion/idea:
the button would work in a way that you get a window with a specific questionnaire why you think that the char in question is boting.
WHAT kind of questions do we need to be asked here?
Next thing this player started process should do is NOT to get on the pile of petitions to be looked at by a GM, but instead goes into a pool/pile of workload to programs that start to collect this kind of information. Only after a set of key elements for this process meets certain criteria set by CCP the whole case for that char should be looked at by a human.
/supported to show interest
As always, the AH forums isn't capable of delivering the needed infrastructure for this kind of process.. see my sig
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Meridian Siri
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Posted - 2010.12.18 21:37:00 -
[11]
Yup. Does need a "reason for report" form. Data would then be auto compiled until a threshold is reached (combo of number of similar complaints for same reasons) prior to being flagged to a GM. Provides an intel tool to CCP so they can see what we all see regularly.
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The Paperwork
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Posted - 2010.12.18 22:02:00 -
[12]
Great idea. At least having the option to begin collecting bot suspicion data via crowdsourcing could lead to interesting outcomes.
Seems like a simple and easy to implement tool.
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Crazy KSK
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Posted - 2010.12.19 04:24:00 -
[13]
all a GM would have to do to prove if reported person is a botter is look at the logs login time rat kills in the last time how many jumps have been made etc and if said account has been on for 20 hours killing 100k rats an never leaving the system and maybe doing that for days already then we can be pretty sure that its a bot and if that is not enough have the GM go into the system and look at what hes doing bots tend to save up and log a split second after you enter the system faster than a normal person can do that etc etc
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Cyprus Black
Perkone
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Posted - 2010.12.19 04:56:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Cyprus Black on 19/12/2010 05:02:35
I think after enough "Report Botter" reports come in against an individual, the ship they're piloting should suffer a capacitor leak and effectively have zero capacitor with zero capacitor regeneration.
They can fly around but cannot warp nor activate modules as they have no capacitor to do so. Effectively dead in the water so to speak. Thus shutting down all botting activity that individual may be conducting until a GM can do a proper investigation.
Sure, they could cloak and slowboat to a safe area, but their activities are halted anyways so they can sit there cloaked and botting it up all they want. _______________________________________
When you say "plz" because it's shorter than "please", I say "no" because it's shorter than "yes".
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Aineko Macx
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Posted - 2010.12.19 07:53:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Alias 6322A This is a risky option because bot-reporting is much more difficult.
What if the player is afk mining? Or just went to the bathroom? Would you wait 3 minutes for a response from them? If someone bugged you if you were there, would you respond to some stranger?
I'd love to see bots taken down, but before such an option could be implemented CCP would have to instruct the player base on how to properly identify bots or potential bots and likely limit how often it could be used to prevent GM's being flooded with a time-consuming process - determining from the logs if a player was in fact a bot.
Try not to think of the button as a form of petition, but as one of multiple data inputs into a detection system which would filter down the list of most likely bot candidates for the GMs to check out. Bot banning will never happen because of a single red flag raised, nor will it happen without human approval. ________________________ CCP: Where fixing bugs is a luxury, not an obligation. |
Carniflex
StarHunt R.A.G.E
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Posted - 2010.12.19 10:38:00 -
[16]
I think this would be good idea, although it should be a bit more complex solution than just reporting an isk seller. Perhaps also a small text box (sort of mini petition) where you can add with few sentences why do you think the player you reported is a bot.
What this button should do is to make EVE preserve a bit more detailed logs for the suspected 'bot' for the next 2 weeks for example. So when the few guys whose main job is to hunt and ban bots get around to taking a look at the suspected bots they would have a bit more data to look at than just the default logs, as for performance reasons I doubt that it's feasible to log detailed logs for every single player in EVE. It would especially preserve logs about items / contracts / isk transfers between characters and detailed logs about in game actions so it's easier to find unnatural regularities there.
In addition this would create sort of 'ranking' system between suspected bots and it would make sense to take a look at highest ranking bots first as for some reason most people suspect of them being a bot. Another positive thing possible would be a 'ranking' system for those that report - i.e., how high is probability that if this particular player thinks that the person is bot it can be found out that it actually is a bot. So those who just run around and 'report' every single ice miner they can find would be dropped into 'just a noise' category fast enough.
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