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Aureus
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Posted - 2010.12.13 19:49:00 -
[1]
When the BPO lists materials required - say a bunch of minerals - is that some default amount without any skills or material research? What is the maximum discount you can get on the materials required from skills? from material research? any other way to cut ME costs? I looked up some anchorable stations but while they have bonus to speed their material modifier seems to be 1.0
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Deusquasso
Caldari Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
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Posted - 2010.12.13 21:08:00 -
[2]
When you look at the info for a BPO it should give you mineral amounts required by you (given your skills) and perfect (given max skills).
The only skill that affects how much minerals you need is Production Efficiency (4% less material waste per level). There is also Material Efficiency research you can do that will further reduce the waste during manufacturing.
Note that Production Efficiency skill is different then Production Efficiency research. The skill reduces waste, the research reduces production time.
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Bob Tendo
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Posted - 2010.12.13 22:53:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Aureus When the BPO lists materials required ... is that some default amount without any skills or material research?
The amount on the BP incudes any waste from the prints's ME level, so you need to calculate the actual base amount. For most items it's 10% waste with a new ME0 print. With max skill and enough research you can get to zero waste, though with bigger items this is not practical. (each level of ME is less efective then the previous, so dont tie-up the prints for months just to save a few tritanium)
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Master Flakattack
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Posted - 2010.12.13 23:46:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Master Flakattack on 13/12/2010 23:46:25
Originally by: Bob Tendo With max skill and enough research you can get to zero waste, though with bigger items this is not practical. (each level of ME is less efective then the previous, so dont tie-up the prints for months just to save a few tritanium)
OP, please read this 100 times before you even think about buying a BPO. Part of the reason there are no lab slots around is because there are idiots out there doing ME research in the hundreds on the dumbest things...
Look up the Perfect ME numbers for a BPO before putting it in a lab. Often the perfect number is a lot smaller than you think (and even an imperfect number will only cost you an extra few trit or one-two megacyte).
TL;DR don't be a damn noob about Material Efficiency research, do your homework.
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Aureus
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Posted - 2010.12.14 01:52:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Master Flakattack
Look up the Perfect ME numbers for a BPO before putting it in a lab. Often the perfect number is a lot smaller than you think (and even an imperfect number will only cost you an extra few trit or one-two megacyte).
TL;DR don't be a damn noob about Material Efficiency research, do your homework.
Thanks for that advice - where can I lookup optimal ME numbers for BPs?
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Who Wozit
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Posted - 2010.12.14 02:51:00 -
[6]
Look at each mineral individually and divide by 5.5 (gives a very good approximation without all the math)
Most BP's will give a good result from an ME of around 20 or less (quite often nearer to 10, and a few need no ME reasearch at all)
Simply weigh up the advantages of reduced waste (but not neccesarily perfect) against the time it would take to do more research and the value of the minerals involved.
No point trying to do another 50 levels of ME research just to get rid of those last 3 trit when you could have been manufacturing and selling during the 3 months it would take
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Imuran
The first genesis Veritas Immortalis
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Posted - 2010.12.14 12:20:00 -
[7]
Linkage Good calculator for such related calculations
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Caltharian
Gallente 0beron Construct Black Core Alliance
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Posted - 2010.12.14 14:10:00 -
[8]
The Prism plugin that comes with EveHQ is also very good for helping you work out the ideal me on a bpo as well as giving you lots of other handy little bits of info
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Nicky's Tomb
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Posted - 2010.12.14 14:31:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Master Flakattack
OP, please read this 100 times before you even think about buying a BPO. Part of the reason there are no lab slots around is because there are idiots out there doing ME research in the hundreds on the dumbest things...
Tieing up the lab slots deliberately is the kind of game play a lot of people enjoy.
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My Postman
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Posted - 2010.12.14 15:22:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Master Flakattack Edited by: Master Flakattack on 13/12/2010 23:46:25
Originally by: Bob Tendo With max skill and enough research you can get to zero waste, though with bigger items this is not practical. (each level of ME is less efective then the previous, so dont tie-up the prints for months just to save a few tritanium)
OP, please read this 100 times before you even think about buying a BPO. Part of the reason there are no lab slots around is because there are idiots out there doing ME research in the hundreds on the dumbest things...
Look up the Perfect ME numbers for a BPO before putting it in a lab. Often the perfect number is a lot smaller than you think (and even an imperfect number will only cost you an extra few trit or one-two megacyte).
TL;DR don't be a damn noob about Material Efficiency research, do your homework.
And after you read it 100 times, just read it one more time.
Onetime, in the far, far, future one of us might see a free ME slot in higsec for that reason. After that, all producers will run around like chicken without heads, shouting "Eve is dying".
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Brunaburh
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Posted - 2010.12.14 18:13:00 -
[11]
If you look on the EVE Wiki (not the ingame item itself) that is the base (ME/PE 0/0) values, and does not take into account skills or research. Don't use that to calculate - always do it in game with the character you are planning on using to see real values.
Otherwise, you might end up buying more materials than you need, sometimes at significant markup. (see Fullerides or Morphite...)
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Funesta
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Posted - 2010.12.14 18:39:00 -
[12]
15 is a good number for ME research, especially when you are just starting out.
An example: I have a frigate BPO that's got a ME of about 15. It costs about 220k isk to make one. The difference between my BPO and a perfect BPO is only about 2k isk per manufactured ship!
Compare that 2k isk per ship to the taxes to sell the ship or the fee to put it up as a buy order, or the transportation costs to move the ships to a buyer or a trade hub. It's a trivial amount compared to the profit margins I can make. It'd also take me a very long time - at least a month - and a significant amount of research money to make the blueprint noticeably better on the ME front.
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Tau Cabalander
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.12.14 21:18:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Who Wozit Look at each mineral individually and divide by 5.5 (gives a very good approximation without all the math)
Note that 5.5 is for BPO with 10% base waste at ME 0; these are the most common BPO. Use 10.5 for a 5% base waste BPO (generic formula for perfect M.E. derived).
Beware that extra materials do not have waste. You can find out the extra materials by getting a quote to build with the BPO, and you don't need any materials to do that.
Quote: Most BP's will give a good result from an ME of around 20 or less (quite often nearer to 10, and a few need no ME reasearch at all)
With a 10% waste BPO:
M.E. 1 = 5% M.E. 2 = 3.3% M.E. 3 = 2.5% M.E. 4 = 2% M.E. 5 = 1.6% M.E. 6 = 1.4% M.E. 7 = 1.25% M.E. 8 = 1.1% M.E. 9 = 1% M.E. 10 = 0.91% M.E. 20 = 0.48% (less than 1/2 of a percent)
As you can see, the higher M.E. the less advantage per level, and M.E. 20 is good enough for most things.
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Aphrodite Skripalle
Galactic Defence Consortium
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Posted - 2010.12.15 09:59:00 -
[14]
If you bring in lab costs like fuel etc. ME 5 for most bigger stuff ist more then good enough, as a rule of thumb.
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