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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Chrono Souleater
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Posted - 2010.12.14 03:33:00 -
[1]
I keep reading its impossible to detect if its a bot ratting or whatever, but wouldn't a simple thing (i have no idea how server and code works so this could be totally unrealistic) but for a GM to spawn as what the overview would recognize as a NPC, and if the person keeps shooting the GM which would obviously have 100% resistance they would know its a bot? No person ratting is gonna lock a NPC named GM bla bla bla in some crazy ship and continue to shoot it while it takes no damage... ?
thoughts? or fail ideal?
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Clown Pron
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Posted - 2010.12.14 03:35:00 -
[2]
fail
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Sig Sour
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Posted - 2010.12.14 03:49:00 -
[3]
"Bot Detection ideal"
Idea not ideal.
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sian miller
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Posted - 2010.12.14 04:27:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Chrono Souleater I keep reading its impossible to detect if its a bot ratting or whatever, but wouldn't a simple thing (i have no idea how server and code works so this could be totally unrealistic) but for a GM to spawn as what the overview would recognize as a NPC, and if the person keeps shooting the GM which would obviously have 100% resistance they would know its a bot? No person ratting is gonna lock a NPC named GM bla bla bla in some crazy ship and continue to shoot it while it takes no damage... ?
thoughts? or fail ideal?
everyone would end up shooting the Gm -since they know he cant die.
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Noun Verber
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.12.14 04:44:00 -
[5]
Real people would shoot the GM, bot makers will be able to make their bots read the GM name.
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Infinity Ziona
Minmatar Cloakers
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Posted - 2010.12.14 05:01:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Infinity Ziona on 14/12/2010 05:02:16 One way to do it so that it works is to make killing npc's require thinking. Bots are terrible at thinking. They're like idiot savants, great at solving non-abstract puzzles and math but a lucid train of thought is far out of reach.
If ccp can figure out a way to make npc'ing, missioning, plexing require thought, reasoning and feeling then you have a solution.
Of course then they'd just go mine :) Fix that
of course then they'd change demographics and be real people in a 3rd world country farming for 2 dollars a day, still 1 dollar more then they get now.
There is no certain and complete solution.
--------------------------------------------- Hate Bots / RMT? Do something worthwhile and good for EvE and cause tears and anguish for others, while doing absolutely nothing yourself! Join up. |
Airatt
DeathRattlers
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Posted - 2010.12.14 05:27:00 -
[7]
How about an occasional spawn of an NPC BS in the high space belts? A good way to introduce newbies to the dangers that await them..
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Helen Hunts
Gallente Red Dragon Mining inc Red Dragon Industries
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Posted - 2010.12.14 05:48:00 -
[8]
Oddly enough, most (mining) bots in highsec are set to NOT fire on anything. Early bots were fun to scrag when they would fire on anything that locked them, or fired on can flippers.
In nullsec, most of the bots are set to GTFO/cloak when players enter the area. A GM-ship check wouldn't be that difficult. _______________________________
Mine da rocks, make more ships. Pop da rats, make more rigs. Sell da gear, make more money.
Any Questions? |
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CCP Spitfire
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Posted - 2010.12.14 06:56:00 -
[9]
Moved from 'EVE General Discussion'.
Spitfire Community Representative CCP Hf, EVE Online |
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Mike Voidstar
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Posted - 2010.12.14 08:23:00 -
[10]
Make Mega-Bomb rats and roids.
The name and all info on the overview stays the same, but the graphic in space is a huge, clearly identifiable bomb of some sort. Shoot it and it explodes in a Doomsday effect that wipes out the offending shooter, and flags the account as a possible bot for further investigation during the next Unholy Rage purge, which can now be partially automated by sorting who has multiple deaths by Mega-Bomb.
It won't screen out random goofy people, but it will sure hightlight bots in an easy to see fashion.
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Caldari 5
Amarr The Element Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.12.14 08:32:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Mike Voidstar Make Mega-Bomb rats and roids.
The name and all info on the overview stays the same, but the graphic in space is a huge, clearly identifiable bomb of some sort. Shoot it and it explodes in a Doomsday effect that wipes out the offending shooter, and flags the account as a possible bot for further investigation during the next Unholy Rage purge, which can now be partially automated by sorting who has multiple deaths by Mega-Bomb.
It won't screen out random goofy people, but it will sure hightlight bots in an easy to see fashion.
You would probably kill allot of Multi-boxing AFK mining types with that, I know that I mine so far zoomed out(main reason the mining sound drives me insane, other reason low computer specs) that I can hardly see the brackets, let alone the graphics of the asteroids.
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Gemberslaafje
Vivicide
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Posted - 2010.12.14 09:16:00 -
[12]
Just put sleeper AI everywhere. ---
Creator of the Eve Character Appraiser:
http://gemblog.nl/skill/
Also a spy. |
Mike Voidstar
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Posted - 2010.12.14 23:27:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Caldari 5 You would probably kill allot of Multi-boxing AFK mining types with that, I know that I mine so far zoomed out(main reason the mining sound drives me insane, other reason low computer specs) that I can hardly see the brackets, let alone the graphics of the asteroids.[/quote
As I said, it would not screen out random goofy people. If after losing a miner a couple of times to the Mega-Roid you do not start taking a moment to zoom in and look at your rock.... well... there's not much help for you.
The ratters would get it worse, since in order to fool a bot the Mega-Rat would have to agress and open fire or get ignored by the second generation bot after these were implemented, and when you are looking at 5 flashing crosses in your overview, mistakes will happen. Even though no actual damage was applied, it's still generating damage messages and such, this would wind up getting alot of active players too. I guess it might be best to not have mega rats at all, but this would just move the bots into the ratting buisness.
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Zan Altier
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Posted - 2010.12.14 23:31:00 -
[14]
one account per IP address...
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Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
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Posted - 2010.12.14 23:50:00 -
[15]
Good in theory, but fail in practise. Here is how it will go down.
T1 Player: "pewpewpew" *yawn* "pewpewpew" T10 Player: "WTF" -> alliance chat "Guys come check this **** out, I think theres a DEV RP'ing a rat. T50 Alliance: "PEWPEWPEW!" "Crap, bring more SCs!!!" T100 Batphone: "PEW!PEW!PEW!"
In short: If players even get a hint of a CCP employee dropping in unannounced in a non-concord shuttle/frigate they will line up and pay entry fees in the hopes of popping his sorry ass.
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PBR Streetgaing
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Posted - 2011.01.18 18:42:00 -
[16]
One possible solutions that EVE could implement:
Require the entry of a random number CAPTCHA upon entry into within 100KM of any asteroid field. Entering the CAPTCHA correctly provides the player with a 1 hour license to mine or rat any fields. Failure to do so would possibly result in loss of security standing, web/scramming/disabling the ship until a correct CAPTCHA is entered, and/or perhaps Concord intervention, etc.
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Nisshoku
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Posted - 2011.01.18 18:47:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Zan Altier one account per IP address...
Now this is brilliant. It's a great way to halve CCP's income over night. And also make any LAN, anti-EVE. And make alts useless! Hooray!
/Facepalm |
Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation Hounds of Anarchy
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Posted - 2011.01.18 20:25:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Whitehound on 18/01/2011 20:27:07 Anything you put into the game with the single purpose to fight bots has two immediate disadvantages:
1) It will get fought by the bot users with better software, likely while the change is on the test server and before it goes live on Tranquillity. 2) CCP needs to implement it, until the bots win over it, and then has to remove it again, because it has become pointless.
I give you a better understanding of the situation. Today's bots do not need the EVE client any longer to function. There were bots that read the screen and the client's memory, but the latest generation can directly simulate a client connection to the server. These bots can control 8 or more accounts at a time and on a single computer. They pick a ship from a POS, fly into the belts and shoot the rats. If the ship gets shot does the bot pick up a new ship and continues. It also monitors local and blacklists intruders. If faction items drop does the bot pick it up, and can send a message to a mobile phone so that the user can smile over the rare find.
This is the level of sophistication you are trying to fight. You will lose this fight. These bots can make hundreds of billions of ISKs per month with multiple accounts. Sold to Chinese ISK sellers do these bots create a huge income for some people and the money is used it to feed their families, to buy a better car, pay for its fuel, etc.. These people will not give up their live style just because of a little trick implemented by CCP.
Any change you put into the game to fight these bots becomes pointless. They are a plague. The only thing CCP can do is to make the game more complex and more fun for players, and thereby force the bots to adapt their technology. Just putting extra code into the client against the bots is a waste of CCPs resources.
The only way to fight these bots is to hand over the control of your PC to some anti-bot software. This software needs to use encryption and monitor your entire hardware and OS in order for you to be able to play. Such software then causes a lot of trouble with other software. The question will be, are you willing to install such software on your PC in order to continue playing EVE?
This is the situation with bots. I hope I could give you a better understanding. --
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Consortium Agent
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Posted - 2011.01.24 01:27:00 -
[19]
There's been a big who-ha about this whole bot thing for many years and CCP has always failed to provide a lot of things we can all agree would go a long way towards solving the problems. Their current bot detection routines are known and avoided by most newer bot programs and CCP is (notoriously) extremely slow to move on the problem.
Aside from the obvious improvements they'd need to make to their server detection routines, they also need to stop leaking source code for all the world of bot authors to reverse engineer clients that don't even load Eve. That would be something else they could do.
Some may argue that CCP hasn't done enough to solve the problem, and I would strongly agree. But they haven't done enough to solve the problem in over 6 years when the first automated programs running as macro's over the eve client first surfaced.
Some may argue that the players haven't done enough to discourage the behaviors of these bot running losers. That it is our problem to solve. Of course, the very same safety nets in place to keep players playing Eve when they get wardec'd by superior forces (NPC corps) also provides a safe haven for RMT. Ironic, isn't it?
So, I say the problem is both. Players need to do more to solve the problem and CCP needs to do more to detect these bots and wield the ban hammer of Unholy Rage more often. But CCP and players have a long, rich history of *not* working together to solve problems. Players do a whole lot of whining and complaining, and CCP does a whole lot of reassuring, but neither one takes a whole lot of action to really solve the problems. Just ask any CSM :(
Enter a forthcoming web tool, being written and hosted by yours truly, that will help players to spot and report bots, find and kill bots (and their corporations/alliances), and generally expose those members confirmed of running bots for all the world to see. There are certain checks and balances being built into the system to prevent its abuse and make it a worthwhile tool. In addition, the tool will provide members with an easy to copy & paste message to generate a petition with the GMs noting the bot activity. Used correctly and consistently, players can effect change if only by keeping the GMs busy sorting through bot reports, not to mention expose the nature of players running bots in Eve to the whole of the world - and directly to CCP.
The back-end development of my tool is pretty much done and fairly solid (for those of you who understand what that means lol) - the front end is still being worked on - I've been slammed with RL work the past couple weeks so it's probably going to be next weekend before this goes into beta, but you can feel free to alpha test the reporting anytime (note it may be broken or in a debug state at any time).
http://www.reportbots.com/report.cfm
This page isn't completed yet, we're still working on the third step which will allow you to select the activities and behaviors exhibited by the suspected toon (tho it may be functional by the time you read this). The page will not submit at any rate until the full site is ready for use next week sometime. Feedback is welcome in this thread (sorry to hijack your thread Chrono, but it was a fail idea after all ;P)
The main page (http://www.reportbots.com/) gives more details on what the site is meant to do and is also where I will announce any deadline changes if something comes up in RL this coming week (though I don't anticipate any) ;)
Anyone with an express interest in helping solve the problem can start by listing all of the bot behaviors and activities you are aware of (since CCP doesn't publish anything that would help us) by bot type so that I can better fine tune the system. I know of many activities from the forums over the years, but this is also a good opportunity to get them all in one relative spot (in this thread) for others to find. Thanks!
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NinjaSpud
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Posted - 2011.01.24 07:00:00 -
[20]
Edited by: NinjaSpud on 24/01/2011 07:02:06
Originally by: Hirana Yoshida Good in theory, but fail in practise. Here is how it will go down.
T1 Player: "pewpewpew" *yawn* "pewpewpew" T10 Player: "WTF" -> alliance chat "Guys come check this **** out, I think theres a DEV RP'ing a rat. T50 Alliance: "PEWPEWPEW!" "Crap, bring more SCs!!!" T100 Batphone: "PEW!PEW!PEW!"
In short: If players even get a hint of a CCP employee dropping in unannounced in a non-concord shuttle/frigate they will line up and pay entry fees in the hopes of popping his sorry ass.
LOL modern day nerd gladiator arena isn't it?
Originally by: Gemberslaafje Just put sleeper AI everywhere.
EPIC EPIC Fail.....wait....no that might actually work
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D'Katoza
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Posted - 2011.01.24 08:00:00 -
[21]
Easy fix would be to flag the account when it is detected as a macro miner, then whenever any character on that account tried to mine for more than 1 hour, they are criminally flagged as open to anyone to kill, and send a notification to anyone in any lowsec/nullsec system within 10 jumps of a free macro miner kill.
BTW, I'm an active miner, and hate nothing more than the macro miner screwing everything up for us active miners.
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Skex Relbore
Gallente Skexcorp
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Posted - 2011.01.24 20:23:00 -
[22]
I still maintain the best solution to Macro miners is to making mining a completely passive activity. You can't beat the bots so level the playing field.
Wouldn't do anything about ratting-bots though.
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