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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
9011
|
Posted - 2012.08.12 16:34:00 -
[61] - Quote
Tigress Tionese wrote:More yield by far? You call 9% a lot? Infact all of the barges yields are very close to each. The mackinkaws tank is also stronger , even when running a max yield fit than the max yield Hulk.
Hulk, 9% more yield than Mack Mack, over 400% more ore holding space than Hulk
Cargo space is a godsend, i don't know why they decided to make it so stupidly high. Yes, 25% more yield for a comparable fit indeed makes the king by far, and if you try to make up for that difference, you suffer by making the Mack a hell of a lot easier to kill, which, since it screams GÇ£I'm AFKGÇ¥, is a bad thing.
The reason it got the cargo space it got is because it's intended to replace jet cans. The reason the Hulk didn't get it is because it doesn't need it, since the fleet provides an infinitely deep hole to pour it into.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
CONCORD spawns: quick enough to save you?
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MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
512
|
Posted - 2012.08.12 16:35:00 -
[62] - Quote
Easthir Ravin wrote:Greetings
Eve pilots. Never a more finicky crew of panty waists and complainers. The reason the barges were buffed was because of a successful never ending b*tching campaign by the "bears" of EVE. The intend of which was to increase mining by introducing roll based ships as opposed to linear progression based ships , making minerals more available, driving manufacturing costs down, and stabilizing the market. Add the addition of Alchemy in an attempt to stabilize Tech and T2 prices, we might also see a decrease in ship prices as well.
2 cents
mmmmm roll based ships...
i am hungry now
Ok, so you've corrected my spelling,do you care to make a valid point? -áThere are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... |
MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
512
|
Posted - 2012.08.12 16:36:00 -
[63] - Quote
Tippia wrote:, since the fleet provides an infinitely deep hole to pour it into.
yeah i had the same situation with your mom last night...
i had no clue where to put my load... too much room IMO>>>
Ok, so you've corrected my spelling,do you care to make a valid point? -áThere are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4302
|
Posted - 2012.08.12 16:38:00 -
[64] - Quote
MeBiatch wrote:Andski wrote:MeBiatch wrote:I think what needs to be done now is to get rid of NPC corps... now that you cant just insta gank these things anymore you should be able to war dec these people... just force them into thier respective faction warfare corp and there you have it... Heh they can most definitely be ganked, easily i was runing the number got around a 30k ehp tank on the mack... not bad... not safe either... how many catalysts do you need now to kill one? with heat on you get what 650 dps out of each one? so 4 do 2600 dps so in 11 seconds its dead... not bad at all i guess... just takes more coordination...
650 DPS is only with all skills at V, void and heat on an all-neutron catalyst, which you can't fit a scram+web on with 3 magstabs. It's more reasonable to assume 460 dps with heat and named blasters with faction ammo or 580 dps on a 5 neutron/2 ion catalyst with CPU rigs.
You can get 47k EHP against blasters if you brick it and keep hardeners preheated FYI "WeGÇÖre a professional Merc Alliance, like PL" ~ snot shot, 2012 |
Tigress Tionese
State War Academy Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2012.08.12 16:45:00 -
[65] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Tigress Tionese wrote:More yield by far? You call 9% a lot? Infact all of the barges yields are very close to each. The mackinkaws tank is also stronger , even when running a max yield fit than the max yield Hulk.
Hulk, 9% more yield than Mack Mack, over 400% more ore holding space than Hulk
Cargo space is a godsend, i don't know why they decided to make it so stupidly high. Yes, 25% more yield for a comparable fit indeed makes the king by far, and if you try to make up for that difference, you suffer by making the Mack a hell of a lot easier to kill, which, since it screams GÇ£I'm AFKGÇ¥, is a bad thing. The reason it got the cargo space it got is because it's intended to replace jet cans. The reason the Hulk didn't get it is because it doesn't need it, since the fleet provides an infinitely deep hole to pour it into.
Now you've proved how clueless you are on the situation. Quoted so you can't try to hide the rubbish you just wrote. Mackinkaw beats hulk on tank in every comparable yield situation between the two. It has more hull, armor, shields, more spare CPU and GRID once mining lasers/harvesters are equipped.
25% more yield with comparable tank? LOL the jokes on you.
The only thing hulk has going for it over the mackinkaw is 9% more yield in a max yield setup. |
Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
10033
|
Posted - 2012.08.12 16:59:00 -
[66] - Quote
Tigress Tionese wrote:The only thing hulk has going for it over the mackinkaw is 9% more yield in a max yield setup. You're one of the reasons I liked the change, because there will always be those fitting for max yield and then crying when they diaf.
CCP Zulu..... Forcing players to dock at the captain's quarters is a form of what we actually wanted to get through, which is making Incarna a seamless part of the EVE Online experience. |
Tigress Tionese
State War Academy Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2012.08.12 17:10:00 -
[67] - Quote
Mag's wrote:Tigress Tionese wrote:The only thing hulk has going for it over the mackinkaw is 9% more yield in a max yield setup. You're one of the reasons I liked the change, because there will always be those fitting for max yield and then crying when they diaf.
You like the change? You like that a max yield Mackinkaw can now reach 20k EHP, which is as much as a fully tanked prepatch mackinkaw could get.
Also you failed to see the point, max yield or not, a Mackinkaw tanks better than a comparably tanked Hulk. Some guy posted a hulk fitting with no mining upgrades but 31k EHP, the max yield mack outmines that hulk by 9%. If the mack removed one mining upgrade and fitted extra tank, it could reach much higher levels of tank and maintain the same yield as that same hulk. |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4303
|
Posted - 2012.08.12 17:17:00 -
[68] - Quote
Tigress Tionese wrote:You like that a max yield Mackinkaw can now reach 20k EHP, which is as much as a fully tanked prepatch mackinkaw could get.
Hey we're not going to stop you from thinking that 20k EHP isn't paper-thin. "WeGÇÖre a professional Merc Alliance, like PL" ~ snot shot, 2012 |
Karl Hobb
Stellar Ore Refinery and Crematorium
492
|
Posted - 2012.08.12 17:18:00 -
[69] - Quote
ITT we get a buff, then whine. Nothing Found |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
9011
|
Posted - 2012.08.12 17:25:00 -
[70] - Quote
Tigress Tionese wrote:Mackinkaw beats hulk on tank in every comparable yield situation between the two. GǪby such a small margin that you might as well use the Hulk if you're going for max yield on the Mack. A significant part of the Mack's improved tank lies in that third lowslot GÇö if you ignore it and go for yield instead, you certainly come a bit close to the Hulk in terms of yield, but you also becomes so much weaker that you've just wasted one of its strong points. You are now flying a ship that tells everyone that you are AFK, and if you only get 20k EHP out of it, you have wasted a third of its tanking potential in at attempt to still be mine less than the Hulk.
Quote:25% more yield with comparable tank? No. 25% more yield with a comparable fit. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
CONCORD spawns: quick enough to save you?
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Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
10035
|
Posted - 2012.08.12 17:30:00 -
[71] - Quote
Andski wrote:Tigress Tionese wrote:You like that a max yield Mackinkaw can now reach 20k EHP, which is as much as a fully tanked prepatch mackinkaw could get. Hey we're not going to stop you from thinking that 20k EHP isn't paper-thin. Hey I'm good with everything the little Tigress says tbh.
CCP Zulu..... Forcing players to dock at the captain's quarters is a form of what we actually wanted to get through, which is making Incarna a seamless part of the EVE Online experience. |
Tigress Tionese
State War Academy Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2012.08.12 17:34:00 -
[72] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Tigress Tionese wrote:Mackinkaw beats hulk on tank in every comparable yield situation between the two. GǪby such a small margin that you might as well use the Hulk if you're going for max yield on the Mack. A significant part of the Mack's improved tank lies in that third lowslot GÇö if you ignore it and go for yield instead, you certainly come a bit close to the Hulk in terms of yield, but you also becomes so much weaker that you've just wasted one of its strong points. You are now flying a ship that tells everyone that you are AFK, and if you only get 20k EHP out of it, you have wasted a third of its tanking potential in at attempt to still be mine less than the Hulk, so guess what happens when they come flocking to that big GÇ£I'm AFKGÇ¥ neon sign you've erectedGǪ Quote:25% more yield with comparable tank? No. 25% more yield with a comparable fit.
Give an example of this 25% more yield with a comparable fit. Incase you don't bother, i'll do one for you.
Hulk, 2 mining laser upgrades, leaving hardly any room for tank, be lucky to get 15k EHP, but this is a must in order to achieve 25% yield over the mack. Mackinkaw, to have 25% less yield it's forced to use no more than 1 mining laser upgrade. Lots of room left to make a 30k+ EHP tank.
Is this what you mean? It's very pointless and very fail. |
Tikera Tissant
39
|
Posted - 2012.08.12 17:35:00 -
[73] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Yes, 25% more yield for a comparable fit indeed
At least ore wise, fully skilled with perfect orca boosting, its about 15% difference in m3 on ore mining. Not 9% but not 25%. |
Abel Merkabah
The Executioners Capital Punishment.
94
|
Posted - 2012.08.12 17:36:00 -
[74] - Quote
Tigress Tionese wrote:Julien Brellier wrote:Hulk just got more hitpoints, more cpu and more powergird. It has a stronger tank than before the patch and it still by far the king of pure yield. Before the patch your Hulk would fill up in perhaps 3 cycles and now it's gone down to one. Hulk pilots now have to pay a little bit more attention during mining ops. Boo hoooooooooo More yield by far? You call 9% a lot? Infact all of the barges yields are very close to each. The mackinkaws tank is also stronger , even when running a max yield fit than the max yield Hulk. Hulk, 9% more yield than Mack Mack, over 400% more ore holding space than Hulk Cargo space is a godsend, i don't know why they decided to make it so stupidly high.
+9% yeild per cycle?
If that is the case, that is significant over time.
Not a miner so I don't understand the intricacies of fitting mining ships...but 9% extra DPS for a ship would be a great bonus...just saying...
As for Mack hold space, give both orca support and which would you rather have? From what I understand, orca support makes cargo hold size irrelevent. So that 9% looks much better with an orca there...
Correct me if I'm wrong, but after all the discussion on this, I think I have this understood; not even a miner and it makes sense, how can people that do this for a "career" not get it? "The human body can be drained of blood in 8.6 seconds, given adequate vacuuming systems." |
Tigress Tionese
State War Academy Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2012.08.12 17:36:00 -
[75] - Quote
Tikera Tissant wrote:Tippia wrote:[quote=Tigress Tionese]Yes, 25% more yield for a comparable fit indeed At least ore wise, fully skilled with perfect orca boosting, its about 15% difference in m3 on ore mining. Not 9% but not 25%.
With ore 15% may be closer, but with ice it's only 9%. I'm glad someone else sees that the 25% number is ridiculous. |
Sarton Wells
Blackmoon Ltd.
14
|
Posted - 2012.08.12 17:44:00 -
[76] - Quote
Since you don't seem to understand - the mackinaw is a solo ship. As such the only reasonable fit is to go full tank since you'll be a prime target for gankers. The hulk's role is a fleet ship and as such it should go full yield since it has the protection of the fleet. When you compare the yield of the two in their respective optimal situations the difference in yield is huge. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
9011
|
Posted - 2012.08.12 17:45:00 -
[77] - Quote
Tigress Tionese wrote:Give an example of this 25% more yield with a comparable fit. Incase you don't bother, i'll do one for you. Full set of miners, same amount of upgrades, the rest tank (and filling out any remaining slots with some low-CPU stuff since you'll be very low on both ships). This means that we're only really seeing the inherent differences in the ship bonuses which, as it happens, turn out to be +15%+15% compared to +5%GǪ The difference is a bit over 25% (closer to 26% actually, and we haven't included the loss from travel time on the Mack).
In such a situation, the Hulk will sit at ~20k EHP and the Mack at ~35k.
Ripping out the suitcase on the Mack and replacing it with an MLU means you have to start losing hardeners and are edging towards low-20k EHP instead. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
CONCORD spawns: quick enough to save you?
|
Tikera Tissant
39
|
Posted - 2012.08.12 17:47:00 -
[78] - Quote
Abel Merkabah wrote: Not a miner so I don't understand the intricacies of fitting mining ships...but 9% extra DPS for a ship would be a great bonus...just saying...
TBH I think the argument is just about which ship is the "king" of afk mining. If it was a 40% less yield ship, they would still king it if it means going to the gym for 5 hours and coming back with a full cargo...
I think its a pretty silly argument. EvE is not about going AFK. |
Tigress Tionese
State War Academy Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2012.08.12 17:54:00 -
[79] - Quote
Sarton Wells wrote:Since you don't seem to understand - the mackinaw is a solo ship. As such the only reasonable fit is to go full tank since you'll be a prime target for gankers. The hulk's role is a fleet ship and as such it should go full yield since it has the protection of the fleet. When you compare the yield of the two in their respective optimal situations the difference in yield is huge.
Rubbish, a well skilled mackinkaw with max yield fitting has enough tank that even 3 max dps catalysts may sometimes fail to kill it, they'd need 4 max dps catalysts to be on the safe side.
And since when did being in a fleet protect you from suicide ganks? That's also rubbish. Gankers look for the exhumers with the lowest EHP first and being in a fleet with other miners, well, what do you expect them to do? Mine the ganker? |
Tigress Tionese
State War Academy Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2012.08.12 17:56:00 -
[80] - Quote
Tikera Tissant wrote:Abel Merkabah wrote: Not a miner so I don't understand the intricacies of fitting mining ships...but 9% extra DPS for a ship would be a great bonus...just saying...
TBH I think the argument is just about which ship is the "king" of afk mining. If it was a 40% less yield ship, they would still king it if it means going to the gym for 5 hours and coming back with a full cargo... I think its a pretty silly argument. EvE is not about going AFK.
Right, eve isn't about AFK, so then why we do now have the mackinkaw with an ore hold that let's it AFK mine for up to an hour. Even a max yield Mackinkaw with orca bonuses is going to take 30 minutes to fill up with ice.
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Alyth
The Scope Gallente Federation
2
|
Posted - 2012.08.12 17:56:00 -
[81] - Quote
MeBiatch wrote:Andski wrote:MeBiatch wrote:I think what needs to be done now is to get rid of NPC corps... now that you cant just insta gank these things anymore you should be able to war dec these people... just force them into thier respective faction warfare corp and there you have it... Heh they can most definitely be ganked, easily i was runing the number got around a 30k ehp tank on the mack... not bad... not safe either... how many catalysts do you need now to kill one? with heat on you get what 650 dps out of each one? so 4 do 2600 dps so in 11 seconds its dead... not bad at all i guess... just takes more coordination...
Yes, you could do that, The question is, why would you considering that each Cat costs like 15m each (last I checked, not been ingame for months) so based on that you'd need 60m worth of drops to just break even. |
Sarton Wells
Blackmoon Ltd.
14
|
Posted - 2012.08.12 17:57:00 -
[82] - Quote
Care to share that fit? And a mining fleet without combat ship protection is not much different than a solo miner. Although you still have more options such as using webifiers and aligning to safe spots. Which again makes the tank argument pointless. |
baltec1
Bat Country
1859
|
Posted - 2012.08.12 17:59:00 -
[83] - Quote
Alyth wrote:MeBiatch wrote:Andski wrote:MeBiatch wrote:I think what needs to be done now is to get rid of NPC corps... now that you cant just insta gank these things anymore you should be able to war dec these people... just force them into thier respective faction warfare corp and there you have it... Heh they can most definitely be ganked, easily i was runing the number got around a 30k ehp tank on the mack... not bad... not safe either... how many catalysts do you need now to kill one? with heat on you get what 650 dps out of each one? so 4 do 2600 dps so in 11 seconds its dead... not bad at all i guess... just takes more coordination... Yes, you could do that, The question is, why would you considering that each Cat costs like 15m each (last I checked, not been ingame for months) so based on that you'd need 60m worth of drops to just break even.
3-4 mil per cat is considered expensive |
Abel Merkabah
The Executioners Capital Punishment.
94
|
Posted - 2012.08.12 18:03:00 -
[84] - Quote
Tikera Tissant wrote:Abel Merkabah wrote: Not a miner so I don't understand the intricacies of fitting mining ships...but 9% extra DPS for a ship would be a great bonus...just saying...
TBH I think the argument is just about which ship is the "king" of afk mining. If it was a 40% less yield ship, they would still king it if it means going to the gym for 5 hours and coming back with a full cargo... I think its a pretty silly argument. EvE is not about going AFK.
Yeah I go that...lol...was just trying to bait the other person into stating/implying it...lol... "The human body can be drained of blood in 8.6 seconds, given adequate vacuuming systems." |
Smohq Anmirorz
State War Academy Caldari State
33
|
Posted - 2012.08.12 18:06:00 -
[85] - Quote
Tigress Tionese wrote:Tippia wrote:Suddenly Boom wrote:Unless you're using that industrial ship to haul ore from the belt, which is more its primary use. Its primary use is to haul stuff all over the place. It does that far better than the Mack can ever wish for. The one minor use-case of hauling ore from a belt to a station is still there for group mining efforts for much the same reason: because an industrial can be made to haul more and can be far more flexible in terms of what it carries (eg. all those mining crystals that Hulk users have been whinging about). All the Mack does is allow you to stay in the belt for longer before returning to station, and in that scenario, no hauler is involved to begin with so nothing has been replaced. If you intend never to leave the belt to begin with, then you still need that indy since it does the job far better. Claiming that the every-day haulers is losing its role as an every-day hauler to a ship that cannot actually haul stuff is downright silly. As a point of comparison, a Mack can bring just over 1M units of trit to the market; a mega-haul Itty V can bring nearly 4MGǪ or 86M units if you employ a bit of compression. For belt hauling, the mackinkaw beats primary haulers at their own role. Forget the rest, i'm talking about belt hauling. There's no need to use a hauler anymore, infact even if you're mining in a team, you're better of mining with all mackinkaws, a hauler is not going to increase your yield, infact it will decrease, you're better off with all mackinkaws and no hauler. It's far easier, and you get more ore. The imbalance here is plain as day, no mining ship should be able to haul ore as well as or better than an actual dedicated hauler does. If you really want a dedicated hauler anyway, just use another Mackinkaw, it can mine between hauling sessions. If you're going to do that though you may aswell just use each miner as its own hauler anyway. God, this is so dumb.
uhhh....yeah, I think that's one of the things miners wanted and got. They should probably lower the yield, AFK miners shouldn't make so much ISK. Ice is gonna' crash hard. |
Jacey Distribute
Republic University Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2012.08.12 18:12:00 -
[86] - Quote
i think everyone is missing the point
IMO:
for solo mining the mak would be better, u cant really compare a mak to a hulk in solo mining, who in their right mind solo mine in a hulk? too much back and forth action
for OPs/non-solo mining of course the orca + hulk is gonna be better than a orca + mak
and for the people saying "oh its just 9%" hell, 9% is a ton of ISK, when it adds up |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
9011
|
Posted - 2012.08.12 18:15:00 -
[87] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Alyth wrote:Yes, you could do that, The question is, why would you considering that each Cat costs like 15m each (last I checked, not been ingame for months) so based on that you'd need 60m worth of drops to just break even. 3-4 mil per cat is considered expensive To be fair, the much-feared Gǣmax DPSGǥ Cat does indeed set you back roughly 15M at Jita pricesGǪ
GǪbut if you can settle for a little less damage, the price sure drops veeery quickly. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
CONCORD spawns: quick enough to save you?
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Surge Roth
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
46
|
Posted - 2012.08.12 18:16:00 -
[88] - Quote
I'm glad the ice market is crashing. It'll make fueling my POS easier. |
Tikera Tissant
40
|
Posted - 2012.08.12 18:30:00 -
[89] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Tigress Tionese wrote:Give an example of this 25% more yield with a comparable fit. Incase you don't bother, i'll do one for you. Full set of miners, same amount of upgrades, the rest tank (and filling out any remaining slots with some low-CPU stuff since you'll be very low on both ships). This means that we're only really seeing the inherent differences in the ship bonuses which, as it happens, turn out to be +15%+15% compared to +5%GǪ The difference is a bit over 25% (closer to 26% actually, and we haven't included the loss from travel time on the Mack). In such a situation, the Hulk will sit at ~20k EHP and the Mack at ~35k. Ripping out the suitcase on the Mack and replacing it with an MLU means you have to start losing hardeners and are edging towards low-20k EHP instead.
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Smohq Anmirorz
State War Academy Caldari State
33
|
Posted - 2012.08.12 18:30:00 -
[90] - Quote
Tigress Tionese wrote: The only thing hulk has going for it over the mackinkaw is 9% more yield in a max yield setup.
Yes, that is it's role, more yield. That is it's stated purpose, more yield. What's the problem, here? You admitted yourself it has more yield, Hulk working as intended. |
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