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Baudolino
Gallente Royal Crimson Lancers
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Posted - 2010.12.16 11:28:00 -
[1]
Currently Battleships have a very limited ability to stave of frigate-sized vessels.
When tech III frigates arrive, if they are anything like tech III cruisers, they will have massive HP making it impossible to kill with battleships.
Tech III might be in a position to tackle BS with no fear of loss and could even have the DPS to kill a BS.
Will there be any re-balancing to Battleships in order to keep them competitive and not have them so stupidly vulnerable to frigates-sized vessels?
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Lutz Major
Austriae Est Imperare Orbi Universo
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Posted - 2010.12.16 11:36:00 -
[2]
Deploy heavy drones and bye, bye frigate.
And I wouldn't count on T3 frigs soon. Anyhow I wouldn't spent 300 mils for one just to 'tackle' battleships
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ACE81
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.12.16 11:40:00 -
[3]
Edited by: ACE81 on 16/12/2010 11:41:06 Hmm T3 frigs probably going to be about 50 mil not 300 and lay dps clost to a t1 cruiser with out dmg mods tank unkown would be my guess so probably not a threat to BS's "I want a Secure can thats as big as my Jet can for solo mining :P 27k m3"
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Arthur Frayn
Dafoen Industries
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Posted - 2010.12.16 11:44:00 -
[4]
A T3 frig won't be much better than a T2 frig, the same way the T3 cruisers aren't much better than T2 cruisers. They'll just be more customizable. -- Eventus stultorum magister. |
Carniflex
StarHunt R.A.G.E
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Posted - 2010.12.16 11:47:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Arthur Frayn A T3 frig won't be much better than a T2 frig, the same way the T3 cruisers aren't much better than T2 cruisers. They'll just be more customizable.
Khm ... so they would compare roughly as .. well lets see ... Cerberus against Tengu ? It sure is more customizable. In addition to beating the living crap out of Cerberus ofc .
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carbomb
Super Team Munkey
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Posted - 2010.12.16 11:51:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Baudolino
Tech III might be in a position to tackle BS with no fear of loss and could even have the DPS to kill a BS.
a t2 frig can kill a bs so whats the problem?
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1600 RT
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Posted - 2010.12.16 12:35:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Carniflex
Originally by: Arthur Frayn A T3 frig won't be much better than a T2 frig, the same way the T3 cruisers aren't much better than T2 cruisers. They'll just be more customizable.
Khm ... so they would compare roughly as .. well lets see ... Cerberus against Tengu ? It sure is more customizable. In addition to beating the living crap out of Cerberus ofc .
or proteus vs deimos
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Diesel47
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Posted - 2010.12.16 13:28:00 -
[8]
Battleships are already screwed up so why does it matter?
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Nian Banks
Minmatar Berserkers of Aesir
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Posted - 2010.12.16 14:08:00 -
[9]
Perhaps its time for battleships to be given bonuses that affect large, medium and small weapons from their bonus. (Sleep soon, I hope this makes sense)
Basically, if you have a bonus to large projectile weapons, then it should be a bonus to small, medium and large projectile weapons, for battleships.
Then if you want to, you can allocate one turret slow for a small AC. One single AC should be enough to make a frig reconsider a perma tackle till friends come.
The other option is to introduce a quad small turret module or a flack cannon that uses enough cpu and pg to be for battleships or above only and deals the equivalent damage of a t1 frigate.
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Recreational Abuser
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Posted - 2010.12.16 14:19:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Recreational Abuser on 16/12/2010 14:22:34
Originally by: Nian Banks Perhaps its time for battleships to be given bonuses that affect large, medium and small weapons from their bonus. (Sleep soon, I hope this makes sense)
Basically, if you have a bonus to large projectile weapons, then it should be a bonus to small, medium and large projectile weapons, for battleships.
Then if you want to, you can allocate one turret slow for a small AC. One single AC should be enough to make a frig reconsider a perma tackle till friends come.
blah
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH.....
Sorry, not done yet.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
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Baudolino
Gallente Royal Crimson Lancers
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Posted - 2010.12.16 14:33:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Diesel47 Battleships are already screwed up so why does it matter?
Indeed - it`s a problem that battleships really don`t have much of a battleship feel to them. They are currently facing a number of issues making overly difficult to field.
Originally by: Nian Banks Perhaps its time for battleships to be given bonuses that affect large, medium and small weapons from their bonus. (Sleep soon, I hope this makes sense)
Basically, if you have a bonus to large projectile weapons, then it should be a bonus to small, medium and large projectile weapons, for battleships.
Then if you want to, you can allocate one turret slow for a small AC. One single AC should be enough to make a frig reconsider a perma tackle till friends come.
The other option is to introduce a quad small turret module or a flack cannon that uses enough cpu and pg to be for battleships or above only and deals the equivalent damage of a t1 frigate.
Missile defence and gatling systems have been suggested many times. Maybe it`s time CCP revisit This.
As far as quad fire guns go CCP have already implemented the mechanics for that several years ago. Evey bay and turret has a salvo number to them so quad fire systems to easilly be implemented by manipulating this value.
The current design of ships within the game ensure that all sub capitals have very little difference between them. Alot of the time frigates, cruisers, BCs and battleships all have the same fittings- it`s just the stats that vary (i.e - armor hitpoints, speed, agility etc). Very little really set the classes apart.
capitals have siege mods, tactical reconfiguration, doomsday, clone vat etc..
Battleships should be about half the size of a full carrier and have more onboard assets than any other ship. Battleships need something that sets them apart from the rest of the pack. Like interceptors massive speed and agility are a defining characteristic of frigates there is really nothing defining about battleships in eve.
They have more guns than cruisers and bigger cap than battlecruisers, but there is really nothing unique about them. As eve progresses and lower ship classes keep getting updated, rebalanced and receive tech III alternatives, battleships risk becoming the poor-player-platform because you can quickly attain a tank and dps you need alot of skills to acquire with cruisers and battlecruisers. That shouldn`t be what battleships are about.
Battleships should be something players aspire to fly- vulnerable solo for sure, but something different from the rest. Not just bigger cap and HP.
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Nian Banks
Minmatar Berserkers of Aesir
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Posted - 2010.12.16 14:33:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Recreational Abuser Edited by: Recreational Abuser on 16/12/2010 14:22:34
Originally by: Nian Banks Perhaps its time for battleships to be given bonuses that affect large, medium and small weapons from their bonus. (Sleep soon, I hope this makes sense)
Basically, if you have a bonus to large projectile weapons, then it should be a bonus to small, medium and large projectile weapons, for battleships.
Then if you want to, you can allocate one turret slow for a small AC. One single AC should be enough to make a frig reconsider a perma tackle till friends come.
blah
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH.....
Sorry, not done yet.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
My advice, ask your mother why she did heavy illegal drugs while she was pregnant with you.
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Mr Dilkington
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Posted - 2010.12.16 14:46:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Nian Banks
Then if you want to, you can allocate one turret slow for a small AC. One single AC should be enough to make a frig reconsider a perma tackle till friends come.
PMSL One ac to deter a tackler ? haha Try fitting a web and small drones.
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heheheh
Phoenix Club
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Posted - 2010.12.16 14:48:00 -
[14]
If my dedicated tackler, was detered by a single small a/c, he would not be my dedicated tackler ever again.
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Zarnak Wulf
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Posted - 2010.12.16 15:01:00 -
[15]
They need to fix assault frigates, electronic attack frigates, destroyers, and hybrids before they even think about adding T3 frigates.
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Sigaar
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Posted - 2010.12.16 15:03:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Arthur Frayn A T3 frig won't be much better than a T2 frig, the same way the T3 cruisers aren't much better than T2 cruisers. They'll just be more customizable.
I hope this is a joke. Tengu is doing stuff that no t2 cruiser was EVER close to. Not even three t2 cruisers combined.
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Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
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Posted - 2010.12.16 15:04:00 -
[17]
Very clever to use the potential T3 frigates as leverage for the BS boost agenda
T3 frigates will be able to kill BS just as easily as T1/T2 frigates currently can. Abusing tracking and signature is not exactly rocket science.
Question is if a BS should be able to kill a frigate if alone or whether that should be the destroyer/cruiser/BC department. Personally think that the ability of lights to completely evade BS counters is a good thing as it empathizes the necessity of "mixing it up". If one ship-class was able to kill every other then why fly anything else (ex. pre web nerf BS, very few other hulls used)?
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1600 RT
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Posted - 2010.12.16 15:06:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Hirana Yoshida Very clever to use the potential T3 frigates as leverage for the BS boost agenda
T3 frigates will be able to kill BS just as easily as T1/T2 frigates currently can. Abusing tracking and signature is not exactly rocket science.
Question is if a BS should be able to kill a frigate if alone or whether that should be the destroyer/cruiser/BC department. Personally think that the ability of lights to completely evade BS counters is a good thing as it empathizes the necessity of "mixing it up". If one ship-class was able to kill every other then why fly anything else (ex. pre web nerf BS, very few other hulls used)?
if you are soloing in a BS and you cant kill a solo frig you are doing it wrong
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Mavnas
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Posted - 2010.12.16 15:15:00 -
[19]
I would imagine a couple of heavy neuts would take care of any frigate's tank. Web + drones = win?
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Galen Silas
Gallente Black Aces Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2010.12.16 15:43:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Arthur Frayn A T3 frig won't be much better than a T2 frig, the same way the T3 cruisers aren't much better than T2 cruisers. They'll just be more customizable.
No offense but are you sure your playing EVE??? Yes, i love stating my opinion... because people don't like it! |
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Herping yourDerp
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Posted - 2010.12.16 15:44:00 -
[21]
Nerf T3 add T3 frigate and battleship
i think people forget that the T2 battleships are worthless PVP boats (combat) so when a t2 frig kills a battleship, remmeber it is T2, and battleships are supposed to be vulnerable to small frigs
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Seriously Bored
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.12.16 15:55:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Baudolino Indeed - it`s a problem that battleships really don`t have much of a battleship feel to them. They are currently facing a number of issues making overly difficult to field.
Nah, they have a perfectly realistic battleship feel to them.
They're mostly useless unless pounding a large, relatively immobile object, and are vulnerable to smaller ships and ordinance. Furthermore, they're being obsoleted by carriers.
I'd say that's as realistic and battleship-like as you can get.
Art can't help but imitate life, it seems...
ששששש
Originally by: CCP Big Dumb Object When I nerf something, it takes 2-3 months for your dreams to be crushed.
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Indeterminacy
THORN Syndicate Controlled Chaos
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Posted - 2010.12.16 16:22:00 -
[23]
From what I hear, we shouldn't expect any of these changes (whatever form they come in T3, BS Buff or fix all the stuff that's borken) for at least 18 months.
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Killstealing
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Posted - 2010.12.16 17:36:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Hirana Yoshida Very clever to use the potential T3 frigates as leverage for the BS boost agenda
T3 frigates will be able to kill BS just as easily as T1/T2 frigates currently can. Abusing tracking and signature is not exactly rocket science.
Question is if a BS should be able to kill a frigate if alone or whether that should be the destroyer/cruiser/BC department. Personally think that the ability of lights to completely evade BS counters is a good thing as it empathizes the necessity of "mixing it up". If one ship-class was able to kill every other then why fly anything else (ex. pre web nerf BS, very few other hulls used)?
how do you kill a BS as a solo t1 frig I mean, you can not die but kill? Really?
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Magnus Orin
Minmatar United Systems Navy Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2010.12.16 18:04:00 -
[25]
Hi, I'm a Large Energy Neutralizer II. Sarcasm - Because i'm too far away to strangle you. |
Seriously Bored
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.12.16 18:27:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Magnus Orin Hi, I'm a Large Energy Neutralizer II.
Hi, I'm a Small Diminishing Power System Drain I. Let's gamble.
ששששש
Originally by: CCP Big Dumb Object When I nerf something, it takes 2-3 months for your dreams to be crushed.
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fkingfurious
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Posted - 2010.12.16 20:49:00 -
[27]
Edited by: fkingfurious on 16/12/2010 20:49:07 Or they could just change the way neuts cycle
A Heavy Unstable neut kills 600 cap every 24 seconds, or 25 cap/sec. Bringing the cycle times of ALL neuts and nos into line with eachother, for example 3 secs for a nos and 6 secs for a neut (what small size are already) would go a long way to giving BS legitimate defense vs. frigs. A Heavy Unstable would now neutralize 150 cap every 6 secs (still 25/sec) meaning that single small nos that frigs invariably carry will not be sufficient to indefinitley fend off the drain of a heavy neut.
All of a sudden BS are no longer defenceless.
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oldmanst4r
Minmatar oldmanst4r's Corporation
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Posted - 2010.12.16 20:52:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Arthur Frayn A T3 frig won't be much better than a T2 frig, the same way the T3 cruisers aren't much better than T2 cruisers. They'll just be more customizable.
Have you ever flown a t3 in PvP? Well, let me tell you, it feels like F**KING CHEATING. I would make the argument that certain t3s outclass their racial HACs so much, they are actually more isk efficient to fly.
Originally by: CCP Shadow
*snip* Castration successful. Shadow.
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William Cooly
Sol Enterprises
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Posted - 2010.12.16 20:54:00 -
[29]
So much derping in this thread.
Originally by: Lutz Major Deploy heavy drones and bye, bye frigate.
Even decently fitted T1 frigs laugh at heavy drones.
Originally by: ACE81
Hmm T3 frigs probably going to be about 50 mil not 300 and lay dps clost to a t1 cruiser with out dmg mods tank unkown would be my guess so probably not a threat to BS's
For spontaneous theorycrafting I find it odd that your price is reasonable but everything else makes no sense at all. Current T2 AF's and certain other frigates pose a danger to BS's already, and with the customization of T3's, I would say the tank, dps, and threat to battleships is going to be whatever the creator feels like putting on it.
Originally by: Nian Banks turret theorycrafting
Are you the guy with that stupid thread? And fitting a small weapon to any battleship is already laughable, just field drones.
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I troll stupid people. |
Salpad
Caldari Carebears with Attitude
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Posted - 2010.12.16 21:08:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Nian Banks The other option is to introduce a quad small turret module or a flack cannon that uses enough cpu and pg to be for battleships or above only and deals the equivalent damage of a t1 frigate.
More generally, there ought to be drones and gnns that are analogous to Assault Missile Launchers, and similar for battleship-fitted anti-cruiser systems.
IIRC, EVE already has 2x150mm Railgnns, as the smallest possible cruiser-fit railgnn system, so it would make perfect sense to modify that into an anti-frigate weapon, then create analogous weapons for blasters, artillery, drones and so forth.
-- Salpad |
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