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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 8 post(s) |
Azvix
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Posted - 2011.01.16 21:32:00 -
[181]
http://www.eveonline.com/en/incursion/article/169/ccp-soundwave-the-origin-of-incursions
Well, the fact that at least one of the devs is a griefer explains some of my doubts about game mechanics.
As for the PI - until the deployemt nothing is written in stone so I'll reserve my judgement. As of now the PI is only worthwhile if you do it on a big scale (as in: have at least three-five characters doing it) compared to missions/ratting, so if the patch breaks it any further there will be completely no reason for doing it, aside for POS fuel maybe.
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Starfall Nation
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.01.17 02:23:00 -
[182]
I think this is the general mind of the forum, but i don't know if it has been explicitly stated:
1) Use the current PI system (basically, scrap the patch) 1) Keep the ability to upgrade centers, CCP def has that right 2) Add a button that says "Do what i did last time"
amirite?
I think that would make most of the people on this thread very happy from what i read (it would make me jump for friggin joy if i woke up to this).
Plus, it wouldn't mess with "the numbers" as the dev post in this thread has stated was a concern for CCP. (On that note, I still do not understand the underlying motivation for creating this new extractor system in the first place. ?)
In fact, doing this would not give ANY additional benefit or penalty, minus saving players time (and saving left mouse buttons around the world).
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SiliconWolf
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Posted - 2011.01.17 05:19:00 -
[183]
Edited by: SiliconWolf on 17/01/2011 05:27:58 Edited by: SiliconWolf on 17/01/2011 05:25:07 Considering the problem this thread has been experiencing for the last couple weeks, I'd like to add a feature to Eve: flame-mail to devs. It would have the following features to encourage dev participation: 1. We would have to pick a forum thread (like this one) 2. Once sent, the dev would recieve a link to the selected forum and a painful jolt of electricity.
Minor apologies to any dev who reads this, but HOW HARD IS IT TO TYPE US A QUICK NOTE!?!?
Starfall, I actually like the ECUs, but definitely want them fixed before having them added. I need my P3 colonies for my POS fuel. And yes, I'd be thrilled if your #2 was used!
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Turzyx
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.01.17 16:18:00 -
[184]
Hi guys,
I haven't played on the test server yet, but I'm going to do it tonight. There seems to be equal parts of people hating it vs. people loving it; a lot of that can be people not willing to change their playstyle, I get that, or conversely people fanboi'ing up to CCP.
With that in mind, I'd like some thoughts on how my current set up would work...
I run 5 planets with Advanced CCs all with the following configuration:
8 extractors 6 BIFs 3 AIFs 2 Launchpads 1 CC (obviously!)
That's 20 installations per planet. With links that takes me pretty close to max grid on every planet.
Extraction rates I get are around 720k total P0 per day with two 5 hr cycles. I produce approximately 15 P2s per hour, per planet.
How is this going to change? Is it possible to still achieve the same level of production if I use the new system correctly?
Any tips would be appreciated.
Turzyx
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Argonaught
Minmatar Cabbage Tea
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Posted - 2011.01.17 16:54:00 -
[185]
Edited by: Argonaught on 17/01/2011 16:58:34 Edited by: Argonaught on 17/01/2011 16:57:00 To give all those unsure as to what CCP has done I give you my test setup as compared to what I have using old system.
Using same single planet as is on SISI and Main eve,
End product is Mechanical Parts a P2 product:
Old setup: 0.1 system low sec Barren planet
1 x Elite command centre
Base metals = 4 extractors Noble Metals = 4 extractors
Basic Processors x 4 turn Base metals into reactive metals Basic Processors x 4 turn noble metals into Precious metals
Advanced Processors x 4 turn base and Reactive metals into Mechanical Parts
launch Pads x 3, 2 LP's used as buffer storage units and 1 LP to hold end product
Total structures = 24
note: Links in old setup didn't need upgrading.
---------------------------------------------------
New setup: 0.1 system low sec Barren planet
1 x Elite command centre
Base metals = 1 ECU + 3 heads Noble Metals = 1 ECU + 3 heads
Basic Processors x 3 turn Base metals into reactive metals Basic Processors x 3 turn noble metals into Precious metals
Advanced Processors x 2 turn base and Reactive metals into Mechanical Parts
launch Pads x 1.
Total Structures = 12
Links in new setup need upgrading if using more than one head on an ECU
total Loss of 50% of my colony
-------------------------------------------------------
Extraction rates are a tad higher but in all honesty it is in no way anywhere near to what I was extracting before.
It's been nerfed, and the Devs fear to say it is so.
Graphically I really like the look and the less clicking is excellent but I'd rather do the clicks and have the same setup than loose half my colony.
Just my 2p on it
Argonaught
------------------------------------------------ Coming soom or never.sig |
Darod Zyree
Gallente Zyree Holding
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Posted - 2011.01.17 17:21:00 -
[186]
Edited by: Darod Zyree on 17/01/2011 17:23:07 Edited by: Darod Zyree on 17/01/2011 17:22:58 1 day before launch, nothing is going to change this close to deployment. 2.4 mil SPs in planet management i may never use again
People just wanted ONE button to restart all extractors
-Darod- |
Ruairi Maguidhir
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Posted - 2011.01.17 20:38:00 -
[187]
Originally by: BolsterBomb
Originally by: Rupicolous Edited by: Rupicolous on 30/12/2010 17:13:12
TBH, I invested lvl 5 PI skilling across the board on 9 characters and really got into the production side of it all.
Yes, it was a "clickfest" but that is what I feel seperated the casual user from the dedicated ISK generating producers.
I got used to the clicking and would spend about 1 hour between the chars, 3-4 times a day, for 5 hr cycle resets.
If I wasn't into it or needed a break, the option to set em for the 23hr cycle was always there.
I believe the original PI was thought out well enough to remain viable and see little reason to change it as a whole.
The only players seeming to want widespread change are the ones not dedicated to it's potential, the ones looking for an easy out.
Ironically, the easy out has been there all along with the option for longer cycle times.
The only changes needed are the smaller adjustments: Larger customs hangers with corporate access
As much as I'd like to see the newer PI as an improvement ......... I don't, I really don't at all.
and many of us that have already spent countless hours and ISK (destroy / rebuild) setting up our productions chains are going to be very dissapointed with the new release.
THis ^^ I do not see any changes need to the current system as it is. It works well. I wholeheartly agree with him. PI has to involve some work. The longer cycles are there for the more casual player. I do not like any of these new changes.
I couldn't agree more. In addition, I agree with a previous poster that said that pandering to the casual (i.e. lazy and uncommitted) player ruins every MMO eventually
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Dirk Smacker
United Space Marine Corp
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Posted - 2011.01.17 22:15:00 -
[188]
I have tried the new system on multiple occasions and I have one MAJOR issue with it:
It isn't nearly user-friendly enough to be getting the nonchalant treatment by CCP. We are talking about something that will impact supply chains players depend on, as well as to make the new cap parts from the CONCORD LP store.
In my opinion, this is a major deal. With no dev blog detailing the changes, we may be seeing serious shortages when there needed have been any.
It's one thing when Tyrannis came out and you had to try out PI first before you decided whether or not you would invest serious time and energy into it while learning the ins and outs. It's a whole other thing if you made the decision to do just that and not have the change instructions well in advance.
I don't like it.
Don't get me wrong, I've long accepted the fact that those of us doing 3-4 cycles a day would be getting our output cut a bit and I'm fine with it. The changes seem like a nice step forward, but it is the day before this goes live and it severely lacked the love it needed.
Am I wrong here?
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Kaori Mushuri
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Posted - 2011.01.18 00:33:00 -
[189]
I invested some PI training on 6 characters, i used to restart my extractors 3 times a day for a good production in 0.0 and in addition of this i had 1 more hour per day to transfert all the suff from planets to planets. This setup used to give me incomes that prevented me from having to farm stupid anomalies like a zombi. All my test for now gives me a minimum of 30 % loss of incomes and when i take in account the "rarity" of the ressources when 3-4 cycles have finished (more you extract, less there is ...) i'm nearly at -50% income.
I can't understand why such a change from ccp, the average income of the PI was not ( for me ) higher than what people can get with 2 characters that are farming anomalies / mining or even trading for 2 hours in a day, so why nerfing the income of the PI to make it one of the less attractive activity in the game ?
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mechtech
SRS Industries SRS.
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Posted - 2011.01.18 00:51:00 -
[190]
Originally by: Kaori Mushuri
This setup used to give me incomes that prevented me from having to farm stupid anomalies like a zombi. All my test for now gives me a minimum of 30 % loss of incomes and when i take in account the "rarity" of the ressources when 3-4 cycles have finished (more you extract, less there is ...) i'm nearly at -50% income.
CCP is not going to change extraction rates. 90% of this 7 page thread is complaining about extraction rate, it would have been changed if it was open for discussion.
POS products, and POSs themselves, have almost dropped to 1/2 of their NPC price to produce. POS fuel is the problem (particularly the fact that robotics is a hard P3 to produce), not extraction rates as a whole.
Also, realize that a 30% lower extraction rate isn't 30% lower income. Prices will compensate, and probably settle slightly higher overall because the overall demand for people doing PI will now be greater.
Between the extraction rate reduction and cap ship modules using P4, it's obvious CCP wants to boost PI prices and consumption. We should be giving feedback on particular issues, annoyances, and bugs, not just the extraction rates.
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Donn Quixote
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Posted - 2011.01.18 02:08:00 -
[191]
From what I've seen, it appears that the ECU powergrid use isn't the only major issue.
1. On TQ, I can run the extractors on a 1 day cycle constantly and not suffer any resource depletion. On Sisi with the same planet and location, I set a 1 day extraction with less extractors that are also more spread out and canceled it after about 12 hours and the resource was showing up as depleted (adv. planetology 4). Now, 2 days later and the resources are still depleted. At this rate, after 2 days of PI, I will extract all the resources within range of my ECU. Then I need to decommission my ECU and setup a new one. Unfortunately, I'm setup on some gas giants and therefore need to decommission all my structures, build new ones, build new links and setup all the routes all over again. This is way more time consuming and frustrating than the current PI.
2. Logarithmic extracting sucks. You have to figure out how many factories to build based on your total mining over the program cycle, which is then skewed if you cancel a program early. Otherwise, you're not going to have enough factories to deal with all the resources or you'll have idle factories wasting powergrid.
3. We're forced to upgrade links because of the peak production from the ECU. For the most part these links won't even be used to their maximum...more wasted powergrid.
Why isn't the ECU sophisticated enough to idle for cycles when it has mined enough resources for a cycle? These things should be able to average out the minerals they send over a link during the time a given program runs. These are the days of spaceships and here we have a control unit that doesn't even know what a sleep command is?
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Dr Moxy
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Posted - 2011.01.18 03:24:00 -
[192]
I am really not looking forward to the issues tonight. Simple questions in this thread have been IGNORED by CCP. Honestly guys I try to throw you a bone and always support the great things that you do. But ignoring the player feedback on your major change in a patch?! wtf!
/me waits to join the great PI ragequit |
Mortisha Drake
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Posted - 2011.01.18 05:03:00 -
[193]
I for one have already spent a Billion on buying up PI POS fuel products in anticipation of the prices spiking when this goes live
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Rupicolous
Higher Ground
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Posted - 2011.01.19 02:12:00 -
[194]
The patch is out and PI suks ......... no other way to describe it really.
When before you had nice looking and efficient geometric layouts - now the extractor heads overlap everything making a visual puddle of mud.
Wish I could get reimbursed for my processors and command units so I could move them without paying a second time.
Sure I can work around them but why should I have to after using them where they are for over 3 months already.
Now I scan planets with the same lvl 5 skills and see that better hot spots are over there now, oh no problem huh I just need to put the extractor comtrol units over there or somewhere inbetween ......... looks and feels like $h1t !!!
PI suks and you know it ......... should've just added a button for restart all units and made the recource scan relate to skills.
Instead you thought you'd reinvent the wheel with what ? ......... half of a square and half of a triangle - good job.
'waiting for the next PI patch, hopefully soon as your new idea suks a$$
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Mikal Bishop
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Posted - 2011.01.19 04:18:00 -
[195]
I agree this is a cluster you know what. Why make things complicated for the sake of being complicated. I most ****ed off about the lack of precision AP5 gives me. You take the time to scan down the damn gradients and what happens you end doing the stupid extractor crawl to figure out that it doesn't make one god damn difference where outside the center of the hot spot you are. I moved my extractor head from highest to lowest and watched my yields go up and down and end with a yield just as high in the lowest band. You have all sorts of number and charts and none of it makes this any easier. I would rather have the click fest back then this fiasco. And I am not sure that this isn't going to be a click fest when the cycles run out and you have to reposition your heads. If the intention was to send the price of POS fuels through the roof consider the job well done. But I guess we shouldn't expect any better since no Devs have bothered to respond for the last several pages.
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Zircalla
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Posted - 2011.01.19 19:01:00 -
[196]
I like the new PI so far...no idea if it will make me more money or not, but it is more fun to play with and I suspect prices will go up somewhat. P3 on a single planet is hell to make in volume now...so be it.
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Arosth Katsbalger
DISSPACHERS
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Posted - 2011.01.21 01:52:00 -
[197]
Is it just me or has lag increased and fps dropped after placing extractor heads?
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ArtemisAgrotera
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Posted - 2011.01.21 08:08:00 -
[198]
test
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Darod Zyree
Gallente Zyree Holding
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Posted - 2011.01.21 10:54:00 -
[199]
Originally by: Darod Zyree
Originally by: Darod Zyree
Originally by: Darod Zyree
Originally by: Darod Zyree TUX, any word(s) from the team working on PI, on the issues/concerns people have mentioned here?
Don't leave us in the dark man :(
Originally by: Venix Also, no Dev Replies since Dec 23rd.... are we just stuck with this now?
COME ON
-Darod- |
Umbriele
Gallente Etoilles Mortant Ltd. Solyaris Chtonium
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Posted - 2011.01.21 12:59:00 -
[200]
Originally by: Arosth Katsbalger Is it just me or has lag increased and fps dropped after placing extractor heads?
Yes it lags compared to the past.
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Shirow Masamune
Gallente Red is Dead Mech Alliance
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Posted - 2011.01.21 13:06:00 -
[201]
"Of course ECUs are different than extractors so some changes were inevitable and network that used to work might not have the powergrid or cpu anymore." CCP Tuxford
Will CCP be offering a refund for Skill Points spent on Planetary Interaction now that they have screwed with everyones lives?
The purpose of life is to end ... learn, prepare, accept this inevitability.
All things end. |
Mistress Agneta
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Posted - 2011.01.21 19:48:00 -
[202]
I have monitored the resource depletion and redistribution of hotspots for the past few days now. So far, to maintain a constant production flow, I will have to scrap and rebuild my ECU every 2 days - in some cases the distance will bring me into PG trouble from the link-length alone. It's also a lot more tedious adjusting work to be done.
While PI earned me quite a stack of ISK in the past, I can't really stand the annoyance of the new system. Too unpredictable, way too much micromanagement. Back to earning my ISK the old fashioned way I guess.
Rest in PIce, PI
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Beastofburden
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Posted - 2011.01.21 19:55:00 -
[203]
Originally by: Mistress Agneta
Rest in PIce, PI
Amen.
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Darod Zyree
Gallente Zyree Holding
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Posted - 2011.01.22 20:28:00 -
[204]
Anyone else having this problem?
Some times (after 6 hours) when i check my ECU i find out it hasnt been routing any extracted stuff to my launchpad. The route had disappeared... Worked fine the cycles before.
Had this problem on multiple characters and different planets :(
-Darod- |
TamiyaCowboy
Caldari KRAKEN FLEET
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Posted - 2011.01.26 18:17:00 -
[205]
Edited by: TamiyaCowboy on 26/01/2011 18:19:08 Mr Tuxford.
as devs will not answer question in the science section i will bring it to you !!.
old PI
noble metals to presious metals i used to get about 1800 units over 5-10hrs
new PI
noble metals to presious metals, i now get about 300 units in 5-10hrs
it is broken, we have been asking in science section and no dev replys.
i would rather go back to my click fest, i knew what i was getting back then, 1 new mouse a year and a PI system tat worked abit with many clicks.
yes the new gfx looks nice, the ecu are borked, infact PI is borked.
i sent a petition about problem. i cannot post logs but basicly the answer was meh who cares.
so where do we stand now, i am a lone account 1 pilot with 5 planets and you cut my mineral extraction by nearly 100% +. give me back the click fest i purchased some spare micro switches for mah mouse.
oh and it would be nice if your dev's read the science section and explain in full the changes and why and what thought went into it
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