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Deen Wispa
Gallente GHF Corperation Confederacy of Protean Warriors
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Posted - 2010.12.20 21:56:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Deen Wispa on 20/12/2010 22:01:07
Interesting read on alliance politics and bureacracy for those interested. The part that resonated most with me was:
Quote: Bureaucracy and itĘs consequent burn-out on CEOs kills more alliances per year than any other entity
I see alot of CEOs who constantly try to accommodate and please their corpies and slowly lose focus of their own vision for what they intentionally set out to do. How many CEOs have succumbed to bringing their Empire based corp into nullsec only to realize they weren't ready. How many have tried to implement all sorts of fancy schmancy gimmicks in their corp only to realize that they grew into a bureacracy. How many tried to seek the input of many only to realize that no decision was ever made?
How many were man enough to stick with their convictions and vision in the face of strong opposition? Not many I suspect.
It was something that I was cognizant of with my own corp. I try hard to keep the main thing the main thing.
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Starting here:
EN24: I see, and how does the much mocked Majesta Empire Constitution came into place?
Kesper North: In part it was because of the failure to properly tower our most important moons. Majesta found itself in a position where the alliance leadership could not act unilaterally without the majority approval of the Council of CEOs. This led to every single plan suggested by any member of MEĘs leadership getting bogged down in committee, and eventually rejected for one reason or another. This was tremendously demoralizing for every member of MajestaĘs leadership. And as a result, every member of MajestaĘs leadership resigned his post.
Bureaucracy and itĘs consequent burn-out on CEOs kills more alliances per year than any other entity
In the end it was a Majesta member named Sperrzone who finally discussed the emperorĘs new clothes. In an epic post, Sperrzone laid out the reasons why ME was burning out its leadership so quickly. We were failing to give our leaders the ability and discretion to act. Thus, any true leader who accepted a position within ME was burning out rapidly as he realized that he could not act without the councilĘs approval. Seeing that frustration I knew that we had to act, or Majesta would collapse. In response to SperrzoneĘs post, I called for a complete re-engineering of MajestaĘs government. I wrote every word of MajestaĘs constitution and it is the document which still governs our alliance today. In a unanimous vote, the council of CEOs handed over the majority of power to the Prime Minister, or leader of Majesta, establishing a (strictly term-limited) parliamentarian dictatorship.
Kesper North: Now, I am well aware (and agree with) the prevailing paradigm of alliance leadership in EVE ū that true dictatorship is the only viable model. However I felt that the unique mix of opinions and interests in Majesta would never accept such an arrangement, and as such I specifically engineered the new government of Majesta to give a suitable level of power to the alliance leader without alienating or compromising the power of individual member corporations, and building in provisions for what must happen should the Alliance Leader disappear, go inactive, or be shown to be hopelessly incompetent. -----------------
Don't let the trolls ruin your game. |
riverini
Gallente Reliables Inc Majesta Empire
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Posted - 2010.12.20 22:16:00 -
[2]
Originally by: Deen Wispa Edited by: Deen Wispa on 20/12/2010 22:01:07
Interesting read on alliance politics and bureacracy for those interested. The part that resonated most with me was:
Quote: Bureaucracy and itĘs consequent burn-out on CEOs kills more alliances per year than any other entity
I see alot of CEOs who constantly try to accommodate and please their corpies and slowly lose focus of their own vision for what they intentionally set out to do. How many CEOs have succumbed to bringing their Empire based corp into nullsec only to realize they weren't ready. How many have tried to implement all sorts of fancy schmancy gimmicks in their corp only to realize that they grew into a bureacracy. How many tried to seek the input of many only to realize that no decision was ever made?
How many were man enough to stick with their convictions and vision in the face of strong opposition? Not many I suspect.
It was something that I was cognizant of with my own corp. I try hard to keep the main thing the main thing.
+1
This is often overseen by CEO's, even a small renter corp in 0.0 requires some skill and dedication to be run, let alone those huge 0.0 empires.
Some CEO's even venture into Low/Null-Sec without any prior Null-Sec experience.
Glad u enjoyed the article.
0/ R
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Nostradamous
Caldari Di-Tron Heavy Industries
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Posted - 2010.12.20 23:57:00 -
[3]
People "Burnout" because they don't smoke enough weed.
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Brooks Puuntai
Minmatar Solar Nexus. Ethereal Dawn
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Posted - 2010.12.21 01:26:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Nostradamous People "Burnout" because they don't smoke enough weed.
Damn if only I would have known that sooner,
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Spurty
Caldari D00M. Northern Coalition.
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Posted - 2010.12.21 02:25:00 -
[5]
Interesting to read that CEOs didn't hold any power. This is a really awful use of that role.
First act to fix this :
1 - *Kick* the 'council' out of power. BAI now, have a safe trip. Enjoy Empire or something.
2 - Empower only one CEO. They need to have some constitution and know that although they must 'listen' to advisers (Not a council), they *do not* have to do what the these advisers say; just bear it in mind during their 'plans'.
3 - Make sure you keep the little people up to speed when decisions are made. They don't need to be asked if they want to do something. That's the most comical way to get frustrated. CEO should already have a good feel from their member base by 'logging in and listening to them' on a day to day basis.
4 - Create multiple Vice President (One per time zone) positions so the CEO can log out of the game and it not run into a wall. These VPs need to only follow the plan. After that, if they are holding the scepter, what they say goes. If they stray far from the party line, BAI, enjoy empire.
There you go. Problem solved.
Recommend you keep the post to this 'council' terse so they understand they are '****tards' and causing Atrophy at the heart of the alliance.
Also point out that if you find yourself *not* wanting to do something because old members don't want to do it, you either whip them around to your way, or remind them that its tough ******* time. Roles removed .. bai .. enjoy empire.
Nothing kills off progress quite as completely as stagnation.
Hoppit!
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Venetian Tar
Caldari United Systems Navy Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2010.12.21 02:50:00 -
[6]
I find myself agreeing with an NCDOT person.
Something's gone wrong. |
Ventro69
Caldari Manson Family Corcoran State
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Posted - 2010.12.21 07:21:00 -
[7]
CEO's burn out because their recruitment policies are about as tite as a fat chick at the end of the bar, 2 minutes before closing time.
If you're going to surround yourself with fools, you're going to have to suffer them daily.
Brings us right back to the quality vs quantity issue.
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Tobias Sjodin
Caldari Ore Mongers BAT PHONE
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Posted - 2010.12.21 07:21:00 -
[8]
Works fine until you have a bunch of people who pretend they didn't hear you/read corp or alliance mails. And if this is a collective action, you pretty much have to choose between kicking yourself or all of them.
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Kesper North
Caldari Reliables Inc Majesta Empire
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Posted - 2010.12.21 07:40:00 -
[9]
Wow, nice to see this interview got some attention. I think you've hit the take-away message from this right on the head.
-- Killed me? Read about it in my blog! Northern Lights: Solo PVP in EVE Online
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Zanielyene
Minmatar Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
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Posted - 2010.12.21 08:01:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Zanielyene on 21/12/2010 08:01:13 I reason that any CEO that does not burn out after an exceptional period of time is a psychopath.
MOLLE
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Adeptus mecanicus
Caldari The Flaming Sideburn's Waterboard
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Posted - 2010.12.21 08:31:00 -
[11]
as OP said the road to being burnt out is short if you dont takes steps and try to be a hands on person on every level of corp management...
was pretty burnt out and tired of eve 2 years ago when ppl in corp one after another when of extended leave and used to do everything from diplo to recruitment myself and trying to make everybody in corps play time as good as possible, when i returned i decided that i had to find a alternative way of running the corp to lessen the workload on me and my luitenants so i removed the industrial part (asset and bpos) from the corp and keept the fighting force.
with that gone it was one less factor to worry about security wise and no drama factor anymore from that type of player, also being a part of a alliance has its benefits of not having to care at all about diplomatic stuff, NBSI work well for us and if someone wants to chat then we just point em to our alliance diplos and that one less thing to worry about.
when it comes to corp vision ive changed from 1 goal to multible long and short term goals and keep members updated on corp bulletin board that way, only time since i reformed corp that i felt the drama factor was bad was not realy corp related but when sov was claimed by one of our previus alliance memberships and the focus from haveing fun and pvp turned to CTAs and grinding and the blue list explodeing.
so my advice to ceos out there is this: gain good crew under you that will help on day to day running of corp. dont put your goal to high but make several small ones so you dont feel your hitting a brick wall. Keep things simple and plain and keep the red tape factor low in corp to avoid frustration from yourself and your members. If you join a alliance then join one that has a laidback attitue.......the other alliances only sees you and your corp and meat for the grind dont be afraid to kick ppl from corp if they are more damage to corp harmony than benefit.
well im not saying my way is the right one but it works well in my and my corps situasion at present
Recruitment
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Cyaron wars
Gallente Cosmic Fusion Systematic-Chaos
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Posted - 2010.12.21 09:36:00 -
[12]
Slavery gets **** done. No councils, no democracy or such **** will ever make any alliance strong in this game. It's all about leader. CEO and ONLY CEO sheould decide where to go and what to do. If Corp/Alliance has good CEO that corp/alliance becomes strong and if CEO is **** then same happens with corp/alliance.
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Montolio
Caldari Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
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Posted - 2010.12.21 15:25:00 -
[13]
Councils and democracies do not work very well in EVE beyond an advisory capacity.
TEST used to vote on everything and it would take us several days to make decisions. We had infighting and we were slow to move, people got upset if you didn't give them "time" to vote.
We've done away with most of that now, I (as dictator) make decisions quickly after discussing them on jabber or collecting opinions for a short time. Things don't happen in a vacuum, but you need one person who is active and able to pull the trigger. The only issues TEST votes on are admitting new corporations and lifting probation on new corporations.
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Deen Wispa
Gallente GHF Corperation Confederacy of Protean Warriors
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Posted - 2010.12.21 22:07:00 -
[14]
How many big corps/alliances are lead by college students and under? Curious to know. -----------------
Don't let the trolls ruin your game. |
The Mittani
Caldari GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2010.12.21 23:17:00 -
[15]
space fascism is the way forward
Sins of a Solar Spymaster: my ~fair and balanced~ column TheMittani @ Twitter
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Adeptus mecanicus
Caldari The Flaming Sideburn's Waterboard
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Posted - 2010.12.21 23:52:00 -
[16]
well i guess i run it as a JUNTA (tho i hold the shares)
Recruitment
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General Windypops
Gallente The Littlest Hobos Dead Terrorists
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Posted - 2010.12.22 00:00:00 -
[17]
Originally by: The Mittani space fascism is the way forward
Yeah, Goonswarm is really flourishing and is now considered an Eve powerhouse.........
Funny how Molle has the charisma to carry it off, but when Mittani took over his alliance folded within 12 hours.
Please resize your signature to no more than 120 x 400 pixels. - Adida Twitter:@genrlwindypops
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Avernus
Gallente Imperium Technologies Sodalitas XX
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Posted - 2010.12.22 02:38:00 -
[18]
Meh...
There are plenty of successful models for corps and alliances to be based upon, dictatorship is simply the most commonly effective. Especially if your corp or alliance is full of tards.
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The Mittani
Caldari GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2010.12.22 03:49:00 -
[19]
Originally by: General Windypops
Originally by: The Mittani space fascism is the way forward
Yeah, Goonswarm is really flourishing and is now considered an Eve powerhouse.........
Funny how Molle has the charisma to carry it off, but when Mittani took over his alliance folded within 12 hours.
tee hee hee
Sins of a Solar Spymaster: my ~fair and balanced~ column TheMittani @ Twitter
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Ivana Twinkle
Amarr GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2010.12.22 08:45:00 -
[20]
Originally by: The Mittani space fascism is the way forward
Aww I thought it was space communism :( ---
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Jason Edwards
Gallente Internet Tough Guy Spreadsheets Online
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Posted - 2010.12.22 08:51:00 -
[21]
Basically alliance and big corp leaders become the centre of the personality cult. You can try your best to break that but you become one anyway. Then people just doing stuff with you is fun for them. Being in a fleet with the glorious sirmolle or viper****zle or whoever is somehow uberspecial and tons of people come along just to see what will happen. I saw this with myself. Someone would start trying to setup a fleet just to roam or do whatever. They'd get their 25 people or so. Nobody else was dropping their x. I then drop my X. Suddenly there will be so many xs coming out... then because of all those xs. Lots more notice and join up. Suddenly your fleet is 150.
You notice this quick. Then you realize that you need to be going along with everything. Make sure you always have the 150 man fleets to make **** happen. You alliance's success is rounded around it.
As a leader the only way to avoid being burnt out however. You essentially need 3 things:
1. Dont live on TQ. You will strive to have no timezone. Be there for your alliance and make sure it's successful always. Dont do that! 2. People who are very negative against authority and think you are doing a terrible job. Promote them. Give them power. 3. Give props to your FCs and similar people for doing a good job, even if they are doing a terrible job. Essentially form personality cults around them also. That way when that FC starts his fleet. Everyone joins up for that fun and success without needing you. ------------------------ To make a megathron from scratch, you must first invent the eve universe.
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Meno Theaetetus
Gallente Wildly Inappropriate Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2010.12.22 11:52:00 -
[22]
An oligarchy based on unequivocal trust, with an outer circle as an informal meritocracy, it's the only way to get things done in this game.
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Tobias Sjodin
Caldari Ore Mongers BAT PHONE
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Posted - 2010.12.22 12:32:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Meno Theaetetus An oligarchy based on unequivocal trust, with an outer circle as an informal meritocracy, it's the only way to get things done in this game.
Would you consider your alliance/corp to be a representation of this application of 'getting things done'?
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The Mittani
Caldari GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2010.12.23 00:01:00 -
[24]
Originally by: General Windypops
Originally by: The Mittani space fascism is the way forward
Yeah, Goonswarm is really flourishing and is now considered an Eve powerhouse.........
Funny how Molle has the charisma to carry it off, but when Mittani took over his alliance folded within 12 hours.
this is still a really funny post btw even a day later!
Sins of a Solar Spymaster: my ~fair and balanced~ column TheMittani @ Twitter
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Bobbeh
Minmatar Navy of Xoc Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2010.12.23 08:48:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Meno Theaetetus An oligarchy based on unequivocal trust, with an outer circle as an informal meritocracy, it's the only way to get things done in this game.
In Tomcat we trust
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Vile rat
Amarr GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2010.12.23 11:59:00 -
[26]
Originally by: The Mittani
Originally by: General Windypops
Originally by: The Mittani space fascism is the way forward
Yeah, Goonswarm is really flourishing and is now considered an Eve powerhouse.........
Funny how Molle has the charisma to carry it off, but when Mittani took over his alliance folded within 12 hours.
this is still a really funny post btw even a day later!
We're talking about the first time right?
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Shaemell Buttleson
Minmatar Euphoria Released HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2010.12.23 17:15:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Nostradamous People "Burnout" because they don't smoke enough weed.
worthy of a quote.
* Please resize your signature to the maximum file size of 24000 bytes. - CCP Ildoge
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