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Don't trust anyone?

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Phroneo Caldari Southern Cross Empire Flying Dangerous	Posted - 2010.12.21 16:15:00 - [1] Hi, I was reading some forums and I got think about whether having such a huge "Don't trust anyone" mentality is a good thing. On the one hand, you get closer to your corp mates as you can't trust anyone else, and it gives you a MMO world that doesn't exist elsewhere. On the other hand, it limits interaction with outsiders (and hence fun?) due to the mistrust while making EVE a colder place. I see merits in both views. However, while it makes EVE a harsh place and that's cool, does EVE make things harsh for the harsh people? Wouldn't it be good if we had some kind of long term consequences so that trustworthy people outside your past associations could still be trusted? Meanwhile, people with a history of scamming or other deceitful behavior would have to deal with that or hope people don't check up on their history? To me this would only serve to enrich the game diplomatically. I'm sure there would be issues with griefing someone's history but I'm sure CCP or we could come up with something workable. Perhaps a simple score based on standings? More weight would be given to older players and multiple negative/positive standings from one corp/alliance, would be reweighted / aggregated to prevent that sort of griefing. Any thoughts? -- It may be that the old astrologers had the truth exactly reversed, when they believed that the stars controlled the destinies of men. The time may come when men control the destinies of stars. ACC
Sombike Caldari Enterprise Estonia Cult of War	Posted - 2010.12.21 16:35:00 - [2] You cant even trust your own corp members, yet alone some random pixel that floats on your screen ... I have never had a signature before, is it any good?
Roosterton Eternal Frontier Saints Amongst Sinners	Posted - 2010.12.21 16:36:00 - [3] Edited by: Roosterton on 21/12/2010 16:36:48 Look at Chribba. He's the most trustworthy guy in EVE, and he's loved by everyone. The consequence of being untrustworthy is that you aren't Chribba! -------- Enemy corps raided into disbandment: Three. Originally by: Tarminic OH MY GOD WHAT HAVE YOU DONE?!
K'uata Sayus	Posted - 2010.12.21 16:40:00 - [4] I barely trust my own alts. EVERYONE SEEMS NORMAL UNTIL YOU GET TO KNOW THEM.
Wacktopia Dark Side Of The Womb	Posted - 2010.12.21 16:44:00 - [5] Don't trust anyone with anything you cannot afford to lose. Don't trust anyone with anything you cannot afford to lose. Don't trust anyone with anything you cannot afford to lose.
Stegas Tyrano GREY COUNCIL	Posted - 2010.12.21 16:50:00 - [6] Originally by: K'uata Sayus I barely trust my own alts.
Stu Pendisdick Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2010.12.21 16:53:00 - [7] Originally by: K'uata Sayus I barely trust my own alts. I was beginning to think I was alone in that particular paranoia. They look at me at the login screen with those piercing, accusing eyes.............
Inigo Firebird The Dirty Rotten Scoundrels	Posted - 2010.12.21 17:04:00 - [8] Joining or forming a corp and spending long periods of time with these people a trust is bound to form in one sense or another. Its upto you to decide how much you trust them and treat them accordling. In space licking your frozen corpse !
Sergeant Spot Galactic Geographic BookMark Surveying Inc.	Posted - 2010.12.21 17:19:00 - [9] Originally by: Stu Pendis** Originally by:** K'uata Sayus I barely trust my own alts. I was beginning to think I was alone in that particular paranoia. They look at me at the login screen with those piercing, accusing eyes............. Well,.... ....if you would stop demanding that they commit suicide by self-destructing their pods, just so you can get them across the galaxy faster, only to have them hop into a shuttle and suicide scout ahead of you in hostile space, they might not hate you so much..... Oh, wait.... am I projecting?? Play nice while you butcher each other.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.12.21 17:29:00 - [10] Originally by: Stu Pendis** Originally by:** K'uata Sayus I barely trust my own alts. I was beginning to think I was alone in that particular paranoia. They look at me at the login screen with those piercing, accusing eyes............. Don't worry. You still sit with your finger on that skull button ù they will bow to this unyielding power. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Cyaxares II	Posted - 2010.12.21 17:43:00 - [11] Edited by: Cyaxares II on 21/12/2010 17:43:28 "Don't trust anyone" is almost never to be taken literally. A more realistic formulation would be "Don't trust people you don't know well blindly with huge amounts of assets" (people as in other human persons as opposed to EVE characters). Usually it just means "Don't come here whining after another player has betrayed you" (basically the more serious version of "Who would recruit someone named <x>?"). Technically you don't have to trust anyone in order to play this game but if you want to play it in a group you have at least to act as if you trusted other people (i.e. you have to give them access to valuable stuff, have to rely on them doing their job, ... and while you might expect them to betray you at any moment this cannot really reflect in your actual actions & decisions). If you think about this meme it becomes clear that "Don't trust anyone." is more of a mental protection scheme ("I don't have to feel hurt after he backstabbed me because I didn't trust him anyways") than an actual directive for action. I can give you access to all corp assets and the wallet without trusting you. Similarly you can betray my trust without causing any tangible/direct damage to me. Same thing as "Don't fly what you cannot afford to lose" which is not equal to "Don't fly what you cannot afford to replace".
Pheusia Gallente The Initiative.	Posted - 2010.12.21 18:12:00 - [12] EVE is built on trust. You have to trust people to do most of the things in this game. Most of the rich veterans routinely trust people with hundreds of millions of billions of ISK. Joining a fleet whilst in a supercapital is a massive exercise in trust, for instance. What you shouldn't do in EVE (or in RL come to that) is trust people without good reason, neither should you trust them more than you need to. If someone asks to borrow a book from me, I will happily lend them a book with no security. I don't give them my house key and tell them to help themselves. Signed, Pheusia
Grimpak Gallente The Whitehound Corporation Hounds of Anarchy	Posted - 2010.12.21 18:15:00 - [13] the five basic rules of EVE: 1 - Trust noone 2 - Trust noone 3 - It's not paranoia if they are out to get you 4 - They are out to get you 5 - Don't fly what you cannot afford to lose --- Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals. ain't that right.
Captain Merkin Minmatar Debitum Naturae Drop the Hammer	Posted - 2010.12.21 18:16:00 - [14] There are a few people I trust implicitly the rest can go to hell, but after nearly 8 years playing with some of the same people you tend to know if you can trust them or not ;) "Ninjaprints" Affordable photographic artwork, products and services.
Professor Tarantula Hedion University	Posted - 2010.12.21 18:22:00 - [15] Edited by: Professor Tarantula on 21/12/2010 18:23:15 Originally by: Grimpak the five basic rules of EVE: 1 - Trust noone 2 - Trust noone Confirming Peter Noone is the only trustworthy EVE player. I really wish the game didn't celebrate deception so much. Sure, it exists in RL, and some claim that makes the game more realistic, but in RL people aren't so proud of it, and because it's not something to be ashamed of in EVE it's more rampant. My Warmest Regards. Prof. Tarantula, Esq.
Serpents smile	Posted - 2010.12.21 18:25:00 - [16] Anyone (corp member) asking access to corp hangars should be spaced immediately. Just to be on the safe side.
De'Veldrin Minmatar Green-Core The Obsidian Legion	Posted - 2010.12.21 18:30:00 - [17] Having made some astonishingly stupid moves in my Eve career I don't even trust myself. --Vel I'm more of a care-badger.
gfldex	Posted - 2010.12.21 18:30:00 - [18] Originally by: Phroneo I was reading some forums and I got think about whether having such a huge "Don't trust anyone" mentality is a good thing. On the one hand, you get closer to your corp mates as you can't trust anyone else, and it gives you a MMO world that doesn't exist elsewhere. On the other hand, it limits interaction with outsiders (and hence fun?) due to the mistrust while making EVE a colder place. I see merits in both views. Trust is a feeling. If you don't trust you wont have hard feelings if somebody does something that is not in your interest. As a result such an act wont make you sad and emo-rage-quit. That you can't trust somebody does not mean that you can't work together with them. It only means that you have to keep in mind that internet gaming relationships don't equal friendship. Originally by: Phroneo However, while it makes EVE a harsh place and that's cool, does EVE make things harsh for the harsh people? Wouldn't it be good if we had some kind of long term consequences so that trustworthy people outside your past associations could still be trusted? Meanwhile, people with a history of scamming or other deceitful behavior would have to deal with that or hope people don't check up on their history? Would you like to travel to Iceland and show them your passport before you are allowed to play the game?
Barakkus	Posted - 2010.12.21 19:44:00 - [19] Originally by: K'uata Sayus I barely trust my own alts. I threaten mine with biomass every time they clean out the corp wallet...never seems to work... - - [SERVICE] Corp Standings For POS anchoring
Ephemeron Solitairian Society	Posted - 2010.12.21 19:51:00 - [20] And especially don't trust CCP they say they care about the game and try to make it better. But patch after patch things just get worse. They are out to kill EVE!
Skyler Snow	Posted - 2010.12.21 20:32:00 - [21] Originally by: K'uata Sayus I barely trust my own alts. I don't.
Grimpak Gallente The Whitehound Corporation Hounds of Anarchy	Posted - 2010.12.21 20:46:00 - [22] Originally by: Professor Tarantula Edited by: Professor Tarantula on 21/12/2010 18:23:15 Originally by: Grimpak the five basic rules of EVE: 1 - Trust noone 2 - Trust noone Confirming Peter Noone is the only trustworthy EVE player. oh you... let me rephrase it: Originally by: Grimpak the five basic rules of EVE: 1 - Trust nobody 2 - Trust nobody Originally by: Professor Tarantula I really wish the game didn't celebrate deception so much. Sure, it exists in RL, and some claim that makes the game more realistic, but in RL people aren't so proud of it, and because it's not something to be ashamed of in EVE it's more rampant. it's not really like that. people are less scrupulous, and/or hide behind disposable alts. --- Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals. ain't that right.
Brian Ballsack	Posted - 2010.12.21 20:48:00 - [23] Edited by: Brian Ballsack on 21/12/2010 20:48:43 Originally by: Sombike I cant even trust my own corp members, yet alone some random pixel that floats on your screen ... Fixed that for you, speak for yourself :P, i trust my corpmates just fine.
Grimpak Gallente The Whitehound Corporation Hounds of Anarchy	Posted - 2010.12.21 21:21:00 - [24] Originally by: Brian Ballsack Edited by: Brian Ballsack on 21/12/2010 20:48:43 Originally by: Sombike I cant even trust my own corp members, yet alone some random pixel that floats on your screen ... Fixed that for you, speak for yourself :P, i trust my corpmates just fine. no, he's right. you can trust unknowns to most likely wanting your head. now the ones that you know and are friendly, who knows what goes on their heads! --- Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals. ain't that right.
Blane Xero Amarr The Firestorm Cartel	Posted - 2010.12.21 21:25:00 - [25] I remember right-click > trade on your own icon. "That's probably not the best Idea. You'd probably end up stealing from yourself" _____________________________________ Haruhiist since December 2008 Originally by: CCP Fallout Been there. Done that. Need antibiotics.
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2010.12.21 21:44:00 - [26] Originally by: Barakkus Originally by: K'uata Sayus I barely trust my own alts. I threaten mine with biomass every time they clean out the corp wallet...never seems to work... have some balls and actually do it next time! see if that doesn't deter them
Chuc Morris	Posted - 2010.12.21 22:34:00 - [27] You can trust me, take me in your corp and give me acces to your assets. Also for each 100M you send me i'll double your profit. Thanks, you're nice guys.
Zora'e Amarr Royal Black Watch Highlanders Warped Aggression	Posted - 2010.12.22 00:30:00 - [28] Trust is earned, much like respect. I trust members of my corp will deal straight with me, and I trust members of my alliance will do the same (until shown otherwise). However, I won't trust any of them with ALL of my stuff at one time. Doing so is just asking to eventually lose it all. In EVE you have to assume that eventually you will fall victim to untrustworthy individual(s). So your trust needs to be tempered with a little basic intelligence. The following guidelines are always good to follow. I am sure there are more but I have not had my coffee yet so my brain is not functioning fully. 1) Never give all your stuff to one person at any time to move for you (this is more for corp/alliance mates shifting things from low/null sec). 2) Never loan anything expecting to get it back (you will likely get it back, but you are also just as likely to never see it again [especially in low/null sec]). 3) Never loan isk expecting to get it back (You might, but then again you might not). 4) Never War-Dec Chribba (he has to many friends who will do very bad things to you shortly after). 5) Don't believe anything CCP Spitfire says... He smells like cookies.. someone who smells like cookies is untrustworthy. - Ceiling Cat may be watching you, but Basement Cat is shooting at you!
F'elch Wall Street Trading	Posted - 2010.12.22 00:30:00 - [29] I trust exactly two people in this game.
De'Veldrin Minmatar Green-Core The Obsidian Legion	Posted - 2010.12.22 00:59:00 - [30] Originally by: Grimpak Originally by: Brian Ballsack Edited by: Brian Ballsack on 21/12/2010 20:48:43 Originally by: Sombike I cant even trust my own corp members, yet alone some random pixel that floats on your screen ... Fixed that for you, speak for yourself :P, i trust my corpmates just fine. no, he's right. you can trust unknowns to most likely wanting your head. now the ones that you know and are friendly, who knows what goes on their heads! I trust you Grim. Well, not with anything I plan to keep, but you know.... --Vel I'm more of a care-badger.

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