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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 15 post(s) |
Xindi Kraid
The Night Wardens Viro Mors Non Est
22
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Posted - 2012.09.12 15:08:00 -
[211] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:
We wanted these ships to feel like an expedition vessel for newer players, something that can run sites independently and with enough cargo, no ammo use and extra dronespace to take long journeys away from their home base (even if they stay in highsec). If the style of ship is embraced then these could possibly serve as stepping stones into some kind of tech two "Science vessel" in the future.
So, will this make these ships a go to for WH site hackers? Whatever the case, I like the idea of science vessels, we could use some dedicated mini-profession ships. Also, I think Novafox would like to have a word with you. |
Karash Amerius
Sutoka
66
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Posted - 2012.09.12 23:07:00 -
[212] - Quote
Most of the thread is positive, but I cant help but think they are all the same now. Can't we switch up the ship bonuses just a touch? It is ok if one ship is better at hacking than salvage for instance (imo) Karash Amerius Operative, Sutoka |
Xindi Kraid
The Night Wardens Viro Mors Non Est
22
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Posted - 2012.09.13 15:10:00 -
[213] - Quote
Karash Amerius wrote:Most of the thread is positive, but I cant help but think they are all the same now. Can't we switch up the ship bonuses just a touch? It is ok if one ship is better at hacking than salvage for instance (imo) That should really apply to all of these rebalanced ships, to be honest. It would be great for the shops themselves to provide some reason to cross-train |
DJ P0N-3
Table Flippendeavors
32
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Posted - 2012.09.13 15:37:00 -
[214] - Quote
Doddy wrote:Roime wrote:No ship in this game should be meant for hisec only, what kind of idea that even is?
The cloak certainly is the module that is fitted on all probing ships used outside the starter systems.
wut? Seriously unless you are trying to probe someone down in pvp there is no need for a cloak. If you are trying to probe someone down in it then you don't need your salvager.
Because sitting uncloaked at the sun in a T1 scan frig is how the pros scan. |
Heribeck Weathers
The Executioners Capital Punishment.
4
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Posted - 2012.09.13 18:50:00 -
[215] - Quote
Im least happy with these frigs than the rest, not because i dont prob much, but because they all do the same thing. Might as well make one Science frig and get it over with |
Belsina
STAHLSTURM Test Friends Please Ignore
0
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Posted - 2012.09.15 17:30:00 -
[216] - Quote
I like the idea about the new T1 Scan Frigs :)
i support it |
Furry Commander
Furry Armada
2
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Posted - 2012.09.19 23:03:00 -
[217] - Quote
I like the concept, but if the bonuses are identicle and the fitting attributes fairly similar it leads to a lot of racial homogenization. that seems to be the unfortunate side effect of all the wonderfull buffs, retools, and improvements being made of late. The wierd, quirky bonuses that werent really all that useful frequently were what made the ships feel more unique. I understand some of them are being integrated into the hulls themselves, but it still kinda feels like many of the ships are getting "roled" into being too similar.
additionally, i don't know if you were planning on looking into tweaking rigs at all, but the hacking/archeology/scanning rigs are pretty steep on calibration costs and i feel rigs in general could use some tweaking, but i will reserve that for another thread.
why not do something like this to help keep some of the racial flavor and make the ships perform a little better. i will italicize my changes for ease of reading
Magnate: Frigate skill bonuses: 7.5% increase to scan strength of probes 5% bonus to Codebreaker, Analyzer and Salvager cycle time 10% bonus to Small Energy Turret optimal range Role Bonus: 50% reduction to Electronics Rigs calibration cost Slot layout: 3 H (+1), 3 M (+2), 4 L (+1), 2 turrets, 2 launchers (+2) Fittings: 26 PWG (+4), 230 CPU (+20) Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 250(+90) / 350(-36) / 250(+6) Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap per second): 325 (+168.75)/ 180s (+62.8s)/ 1.8056 (+0.47) Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 350 (+54) / 3.8 (-0.32) / 1072000 / 3.81s (-0.32s) Drones (bandwidth / bay): 15(+5) / 40(+30) Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 34km / 445 / 4 Sensor strength: 10 Radar Signature radius: 39 (-4) Cargo capacity: 400 (+243.75)
Heron: Frigate skill bonuses: 7.5% increase to scan strength of probes 5% bonus to Codebreaker, Analyzer and Salvager cycle time !0% Bonus to missile velocity Role Bonus: 50% Reduction to Electronics Rigs calibration cost Slot layout: 3 H (+1), 5 M (+2), 2 L (+1), 2 turrets (+1), 2 launchers Fittings: 24 PWG (+4), 260 CPU (+10) Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 400(+126) / 200(-58) / 200(-26) Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap per second): 245 (+88.75)/ 135s (+17.8s)/ 1.814 (+0.48) Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 340 (+20) / 3.57 (+0.04) / 1150000 / 3.84s (+0.04s) Drones (bandwidth / bay): 15(+10) / 35(+25) Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 37.5km / 430 / 4 Sensor strength: 12 Gravimetric Signature radius: 40 (-8) Cargo capacity: 400 (+243.75)
Imicus: Frigate skill bonuses: 7.5% increase to scan strength of probes 5% bonus to Codebreaker, Analyzer and Salvager cycle time 5% Bonus to drone tracking speed Role Bonus: 50% Reduction to Electronics Rigs calibration cost Slot layout: 3 H (+1), 4 M (+2), 3 L (+1), 1 turrets (-1) Fittings: 21 PWG (+1), 250 CPU (+20) Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 275(+50) / 325(-19) / 275(-14) Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap per second): 270 (+113.75)/ 135s (+32.8s)/ 1.8 (+0.47) Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 330 (+52) / 4.15 (-0.04) / 997000 / 3.87s (+0.04s) Drones (bandwidth / bay): 20(+5) / 40(+25) Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 35km / 450 / 4 Sensor strength: 11 Magnetometric Signature radius: 41 (-4) Cargo capacity: 400 (+80)
Probe: Frigate skill bonuses: 7.5% increase to scan strength of probes 5% bonus to Codebreaker, Analyzer and Salvager cycle time 10% Bonus to Small Projectile Turret falloff Role Bonus: 50% Reduction to Electronics Rigs calibration cost Slot layout: 3 H (+1), 4 M (+2), 3 L (+1), 2 turrets, 2 launchers (+2) Fittings: 25 PWG (+5), 240 CPU (+20) Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 300(+105) / 300(+26) / 225(-49) Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap per second): 235 (+78.75)/ 130s (+12.8s)/ 1.8 (+0.47) Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 360 (+26) / 3.58 / 1123000 / 3.76s Drones (bandwidth / bay): 15(+5) / 35(+25) Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 32.5km / 465 / 4 Sensor strength: 9 Ladar Signature radius: 38 (-3) Cargo capacity: 400 (+80) |
Aaron Greil
Royal Imperial Navy Reserves
32
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Posted - 2012.09.21 02:23:00 -
[218] - Quote
yeah, I too, am of the mind that these ships are way too homogenized. There is really no reason to pick one over the other. Let them at least follow each race's design philosophy. The magnate should be shooting lasers, etc.
To use the magnate as an example, why not give these ships a role bonus in line with their racial weapon types, something like this:
Magnate: Frigate skill bonuses: 7.5% increase to scan strength of probes 5% bonus to Codebreaker, Analyzer and Salvager cycle time Role Bonus: 50% to small energy turret damage Slot layout: 4 H (+2), 3 M (+2), 4 L (+1), 2 turrets Fittings: 36 PWG (+14), 230 CPU (+20) Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 250(+90) / 450(+64) / 250(+6) Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap per second): (unsure of proper numbers, but should be 10% under combat frig) Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 350 (+54) / 3.8 (-0.32) / 1072000 / 3.81s (-0.32s) Drones (bandwidth / bay): 0(-10) / 0(-10) Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 34km / 445 / 4 Sensor strength: 10 Radar Signature radius: 39 (-4) Cargo capacity: 400 (+243.75)
With a setup like this, the ship is combat capable just enough to take on the lowest end sites by itself, meaning a noob can do it all with one go. I think that was the point by adding massive drone bays to everything in the first place. However, a set up like this retains each race's unique flavor. The 50% damage bonus more or less makes 2 turrets perform like 3. However, its dps is certainly not powerful enough to fight like a punisher or executioner, and given its severely limited powergrid, this is entirely unable to be a front line combat ship.
It seems the intent was to allow a young player a ship just capable enough to start an exploration career, hence the increased fittings and slots. However, the drones on EVERY ship is pretty uncreative and steps on gallente's toes. It also gives a poor progression to better ships. I think the explorer frigs should still carry the distinct flavor of each race, while having the slots and resources to be able to do their intended job. Part of that job is entry-level pve. In this case, that means enough combat capability to field energy turrets with reasonable damage, and enough grid and cap left over for a small armor repper and afterburner. With this in mind, they shouldn't be able to contend with straight combat frigs, such as the punisher, and even with the slot layout and bonuses I suggest above, it would still not compare.
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PartyVaN
Draconis Coalition The Draconis Federation
0
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Posted - 2012.09.21 18:21:00 -
[219] - Quote
I am also curious if some of these T1 changes will carry over to the T2 covops ships, specifically removing the worthless offensives bonuses from the T1 frigate skills (Buzzard is probably the worst). |
Furry Commander
Furry Armada
4
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Posted - 2012.09.22 02:08:00 -
[220] - Quote
PartyVaN wrote:I am also curious if some of these T1 changes will carry over to the T2 covops ships, specifically removing the worthless offensives bonuses from the T1 frigate skills (Buzzard is probably the worst).
I hope not, this is too awesome right here
[Helios, Super Drone] Damage Control II Drone Damage Amplifier II Micro Auxiliary Power Core II
Limited 1MN MicroWarpdrive I Drone Navigation Computer I Medium F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction EM Ward Amplifier II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Covert Ops Cloaking Device II Light Electron Blaster II, Antimatter Charge S
Small Drone Durability Enhancer II Small Ancillary Current Router II
Hobgoblin II x1
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Andy Landen
Born Crazy Tribal Band
63
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Posted - 2012.09.22 16:48:00 -
[221] - Quote
good direction, but let's add a few things. Bonus to salvage, hack, analyze rewards amount.
Stronger salvage, hack, etc. amount bonus on the T2 Covert Ops side. Bonus to cyno fuel and time, will not really do much for capital projection since most of the cost is in jump fuel anyway, so the T2 Covert Ops could also get bonuses to those. |
Kadobloc
State War Academy Caldari State
4
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Posted - 2012.09.26 06:25:00 -
[222] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:We felt that they were good enough as cyno ships as is, and that capital projection isn't really an area of the game that needs a buff right now.
Since cyno lighting is such a big part of their use, the equalized cargo capacity is intended to make sure that each of them can at least keep up with the old Probe.
The avenues for these ships to become more useful to older players most likely will lie with hacking and archaeology.
Agreed;
but let me throw this one in the pond.
The best memories i have of eve was the time when their was a complete in-balance. I'm talking about nano hacks. It was awesome that you can swing in dual it out and move out before anyone could land on you.
Now rather than keep trying to "balance" things and in one respect give everyone an even playing field - to me you make the game even more structured and formulated.
Now i'm sure there are enough of you at CCP to come up with hidden "attributes" that seriously make playing the game a bit more than just sitting at the computer deciding what to do today.
Another example was the guys who got very rich running Wormholes becuase of two negative hole attributes creating a massive buff.... ie. negative minus an negative = a plus.
I think you should concentrate on creating these hidden in-balances, i mean you call them exploits, but you know thats the most interesting part of the game. It could be in null sec these Frigates get an even bigger buff to probe strength which would allow them to take the role of "anom tackler" since running cosmics in null sec is pretty much a safe activity. Usually it takes minimum of 5 probes to locate and be able to warp to; let these ships pop one probe and get an instant warp to. Sure as hell give people the ability to go "hulk hunting" since again; mining plexes in null sec is a safe activity.
Just my thoughts the game is defo lacking atm and the flavour of month (infact for the last 18 months) has been to join a blop-tastic alliance giving the smaller outfits nothing in the way of fun. |
Malice Redeemer
Redeemer Group Joint Venture Conglomerate
128
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Posted - 2012.09.26 16:56:00 -
[223] - Quote
Good job "equalizing" aka homogenizing. I'm glad to know none of the skill choices I have made so far have made any sense whatsoever. |
San Fransisco
Silver Falcon Survey
10
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Posted - 2012.09.26 20:00:00 -
[224] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:If the style of ship is embraced then these could possibly serve as stepping stones into some kind of tech two "Science vessel" in the future.
I've been thinking of this and figured I would make the suggestion of a T2 version of the Echelon hull. It is a pretty cool looking ship and would fit nicely into being developed into the role of a GÇ£science vesselGÇ¥.
Others may disagree but I would think that bigger is not better for a science ship. A smaller signature radius would make it harder to scan down and give it more survivability. If the model doesnGÇÖt facilitate many turret points then give it a good drone bay. Other than the obvious bonus to hacking/analyzing/salvaging it could have a stabilized warp core to let it get away or a bonus to smart bombs for taking out rats.
Alternatively if the ship needs to be bigger the Opux Luxury Yacht could be used. Heck make them both and let people choose.
I guess my point is that there are already existing ship models that can be coded to be GÇ£science vesselsGÇ¥ and done with relatively little effort. For that matter the destroyer models could be expanded into this role.
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Elisa Fir
Luminoctis
28
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Posted - 2012.10.04 08:45:00 -
[225] - Quote
The new AI will switch targets. One of the repeated concerns is that drones ships, having been a niche hull for some time, will now become largely obsolete.
However, at the same time, another niche is getting revamped hulls, strongly favouring drones.
Did the Exploration Frigate Rebalance team realize this when the made the chances? Are the changes being tested against the new AI? Can we be assured that the new hulls will not be obsolete upon introduction because of the AI change?
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Roime
Shiva Furnace Dead On Arrival Alliance
1302
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Posted - 2012.10.05 06:14:00 -
[226] - Quote
Drone ships don't become obsolete just because you have to pay more attention to drones. I've always deployed drones before "pulling agro" to save time, and rat aggro being deadly to drones is greatly exaggerated. (WHs, low/null exploration, L4s) Small drones take long time to lock, are hard to hit, and large ones have lots of HP. And of course, you have spares in the drone bay.
Anyway, looking forward to these new frigs - Heron, Imicus and Probe will be superb cancrackers, substituting our dessies and covopses in wh profession sites. Gallente - the choice of the interstellar gentleman |
Matthias Vilmet
Parallax Shift The Periphery
0
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Posted - 2012.10.08 15:30:00 -
[227] - Quote
Please God,
Give the Helios some more drones or else this ship will now suck even MORE compaired to its tech 1 counterpart. It currently has one little drone to defend itself with.
Amen. |
Nexus Day
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
54
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Posted - 2012.10.13 03:29:00 -
[228] - Quote
Compare the original propsed changes of the Imicus to the Probe. The Imicus got a nice boost to their shields, and with 5 mid slots they can easily be put in position to out tank the Probe. In addition their percentage increase in max speed further erodes a previous advantage held by the Probe. Again the extra mid slot allows the Imicus to press the advantage. Add in the extra drone space... side by side the Imicus seems far superior. Considering that these two ships are being put into a position where they can meet this is important.
All the scan bonuses and cargoholds were made even. If the main "offensive" change was to increase drone capacity why was this not evened out also? 4 x 10 is more effective in many situations than 5 x 5 or 2 x10 + 3 x 5. |
Jesuis Cache-Cache
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
9
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Posted - 2012.10.19 00:46:00 -
[229] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote::Let us know what you think! I think that making all of them basically the same kills the individuality and uniqueness of them being different faction ships. |
Willow LS
Midgets With Machetes F.E.R.A.L
0
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Posted - 2012.10.21 17:14:00 -
[230] - Quote
Jame Jarl Retief wrote:In general I like it, but at the same time I'm very concerned that all races are being so homogenized. All ships of this type are going to make heavy use of drones? Drones used to be a Gallente thing, with Amarr as secondary. Now everyone and their grandma is getting a drone bay of their very own. Historically Caldari had the worst drone capability, but now Heron is 1 out/1 in bay less than Gallente.
I agree with this guy here. Its not just these frigs but the rest of the classes with the ship balancing. I thought the point of the different races is to have different strengths and weaknesses to counter each other. If these kind of changes keep up, it won't matter what ship of the same class you bring to the feild, all of them will be the same with the same bonuses and no advantage to any of them. This then will make the Paper, Rock, Scissors game, redundent.
PS I apologize if someone has said something about this already. When I read the comment I just had to say something right then before reading everything else. |
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Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
325
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Posted - 2012.10.22 07:17:00 -
[231] - Quote
How the hell would you go about differentiating these ship .. we are talking exploration frigates. The only niche narrower in Eve belongs to the exhumers, it is akin to wanting alternate designs to a ball-bearing for Goddess sake
Diversity is Life.
PS: Drones are not a Gallente thing. More and/or Better drones is, since the Imicus has 33% more bandwidth than the others it is perfectly in line with paradigm. |
Opertone
Aurora Empire Fuzzy Nut Attack Squirrels
151
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Posted - 2012.10.22 08:05:00 -
[232] - Quote
please CCP, while you are at it, can you consider making gravity capacitor II a viable option.
I would greatly appreciate being able to fit 2x Gravity Capacitor Upgrade rigs on my Covert ops Cheetah.
Currently Gravity capacitor I - is the only way to go and Gravity Capcitor II - is as useless as all calibration cost 300 rigs.
Lower calibration costs and make fitting 2x Gravity Cap II possible to fit on expensive ships |
Oraac Ensor
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
68
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Posted - 2012.11.12 16:58:00 -
[233] - Quote
Will the Imicus hull redesign glimpsed at Fanfest be introduced in Retribution? |
fukier
Flatline.
127
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Posted - 2012.11.12 17:41:00 -
[234] - Quote
I really hope you bring over the mini professions to the covert ops ships... because the current bonus on the galente one: hybrid damage and thermal bonus are completely useless...
i would move the scan probe strength bonus from the covert ops bonus (you dont need three bonus for covert ops) and move it to the galente frig bonus and then remove the thermal drone bonus and replace with mini profession bonus... At the end of the game both the pawn and the Queen go in the same box. |
Sheynan
Lighting the blight
119
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Posted - 2012.11.12 21:41:00 -
[235] - Quote
Meh, I'd rather have the combat boni with buffs to make them comparable in terms of tank etc. Then remove targeting delay...and you have a wonderful ship. Exploration on top of that, why not.
Or we could have 2 CovOps specialized in combat (p.ex. Minmatar/Gallente) and the other specialized in mini professions. |
Felicia McVanders
xTESLAx
0
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Posted - 2012.11.13 05:15:00 -
[236] - Quote
Why not give these frigates a different role and make a Sisters of Eve faction exploration frigate, destroyer, or crusier instead? |
fukier
Flatline.
130
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Posted - 2012.11.13 05:19:00 -
[237] - Quote
Sheynan wrote:Meh, I'd rather have the combat boni with buffs to make them comparable in terms of tank etc. Then remove targeting delay...and you have a wonderful ship. Exploration on top of that, why not.
Or we could have 2 CovOps specialized in combat (p.ex. Minmatar/Gallente) and the other specialized in mini professions.
that would work two combat two mini profession based... At the end of the game both the pawn and the Queen go in the same box. |
Adanius Olearous
Roughneck Industries
0
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Posted - 2012.11.13 14:44:00 -
[238] - Quote
I'm just looking at the changes and it looks very promising except for one thing that I noticed. Seems that the gallante weapons options are sub par to the other three. Granted that it has bandwidth to run one more drone which i can understand being a gallante ship but shouldnt we at least have two turret mounting points still? The other ships all have the option for 2 launchers , 2 turrets. |
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CCP Ytterbium
C C P C C P Alliance
1351
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Posted - 2012.12.04 10:42:00 -
[239] - Quote
Unsticking, let's make some space for future threads. |
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Willow LS
HORSE KILLERS The Predictables
4
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Posted - 2013.01.02 18:11:00 -
[240] - Quote
What I'm talking about is even in these ship classes. Gallente is still gallente. which means drones and hybrids, Minmitar is still minmitar, which means hits hard flies fast, etc. That should reflect even in exploration vessels. mining vessels are ore products so that isn't relevant. ORE doesn't belong to any one race. |
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