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Kirsi Kirjasto
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Posted - 2010.12.25 13:24:00 -
[1]
Does anyone have any idea how Concord is supposed to work, exactly? Sec Status and faction standings were all positive. Occurred in Amarr Space, 0.5 system.
A) I stole loot from another player. (Yes, bad I know, but not a Concordable offense...)
B) Player attacked me, so I fled and returned within 5 minutes with a new ship.
C) Player who attacked me was gone so decided to blow up the yellow wrecks.
D) I targeted a wreck, was allowed to fire at it, immediately got a GCC and was Concorded. No pop up warning first, and no sec status penalty resulted.
Now, its my understanding that if a player attacks me for theft, I am perfectly entitled to destroy any wrecks he 'owns'. Second, my understanding is that if a player is about to engage in an action that will result in Concord insta-death, there is a mandatory pop-up. That did not occur.
What rules, exactly, define Concord response? Because Concord death is automatic and unavoidable (and avoiding it is a bannable exploit) - the conditions under which they appear should be crystal clear. Why did Concord pop me in this situation?
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Jovan Geldon
Gallente Lead Farmers Kill It With Fire
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Posted - 2010.12.25 14:04:00 -
[2]
Are you sure they were his wrecks? That'd probably explain it, if you shot the wrong ones by accident.
I have heard (possibly apocryphal) tales of shooting wrecks to extend aggro being declared as an exploit, so watch out. Maybe the aggro mechanics got changed to stop people doing it? I dunno.
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Meridith Akesia
Tempest Legion
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Posted - 2010.12.25 14:30:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Jovan Geldon Are you sure they were his wrecks? That'd probably explain it, if you shot the wrong ones by accident.
I think it would have to be this
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Kirsi Kirjasto
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Posted - 2010.12.25 14:58:00 -
[4]
Well, I'd thought of that (perhaps they weren't his wrecks...)
But a) all the wrecks remaining in the field seemed to belong to him (can't speak for the one I popped). b) if the one I destroyed was not flagged to the aggressor, wouldn't that prompt a mandatory Concord pop up warning before being allowed to attack and getting insta-popped?
Further, if a player attacks me for theft, don't I have the right (under game rules) to destroy all his NPC wrecks and cost him ISK/salvage? I wasn't aware that this was punishable by a Concord response, in any case.
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RiskyFrisky
Under the Table Inc.
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Posted - 2010.12.25 15:10:00 -
[5]
Edited by: RiskyFrisky on 25/12/2010 15:11:58 I lost a Jaguar doing this, trying to keep aggro on a Drake awhile back. GCCed and Concorde relieved me off my ship. No sec status loss.
(Was scramming wrecks, GCCed on the third scram?) -
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Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
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Posted - 2010.12.25 15:47:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Kirsi Kirjasto Well, I'd thought of that (perhaps they weren't his wrecks...)
But a) all the wrecks remaining in the field seemed to belong to him (can't speak for the one I popped). b) if the one I destroyed was not flagged to the aggressor, wouldn't that prompt a mandatory Concord pop up warning before being allowed to attack and getting insta-popped?
Further, if a player attacks me for theft, don't I have the right (under game rules) to destroy all his NPC wrecks and cost him ISK/salvage? I wasn't aware that this was punishable by a Concord response, in any case.
Check your settings for warnings regarding GCC either via [ESC] or test it with a station or some other property with a cheap ship.
In any case, the fault will be 99.99% with you.
I only know that you can attack other peoples property in space if you war-dec'ed them.. killright might not be enough. support Public Idea Tracker | 24hr PLEX |
Kirsi Kirjasto
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Posted - 2010.12.25 15:57:00 -
[7]
To my knowledge, there is no way to turn off the GCC warning popup. (Most of the other warnings can be turned off....but not the Concord warning, probably to protect noobs from a misclick.)
As far as this situation is concerned - my understanding is that:
IF you steal from a player, AND that player attacks you, THEN you can destroy every wreck they own, provided it is done within the 15 minute timer.
And I've frequently done it. Except this time, it got me a GCC - and further a GCC without a pop-up warning. (And a GCC, strangely, without a sec status penalty....)
Mainly I am trying to figure out what rule I fell afoul of. I would think that if an 'autodeath' mechanic exists in the game, the rules that trigger it should be crystal clear - not some Schroedinger's cat situation where "if I shoot this wreck, maybe I'm instapopped, maybe not."
Getting Concorded should be completely predictable, if CCP considers it a bannable offense to avoid it.
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Mashie Saldana
Minmatar Veto Corp
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Posted - 2010.12.25 16:01:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Kirsi Kirjasto To my knowledge, there is no way to turn off the GCC warning popup.
Yes it can be disabled.
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Kirsi Kirjasto
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Posted - 2010.12.25 16:14:00 -
[9]
Are we talking about the same warning popup?
I am talking about the "Dangerous Act in hisec - if you do this your ship gets assploded. Are you shure you want to do this? yes/NO you idiot" warning.
There is no 'checkbox' to disable this warning, like all the others. I see nothing in the ESC menus as well.
Also, even if there IS a way to turn off this warning (and I'd love to know how - as it would make suicide ganking easier...), I still see it every time I target a random player in hi-sec so I doubt that is the issue.
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Larry LowBlow
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Posted - 2010.12.25 16:35:00 -
[10]
It happened to me as well however it was just after an expansion and for some reason the concord warning was turned off. Petition it and they might reimburse your ship and make sure the setting is reset as well. I lost a ship after scramming a wreck to extend aggro as well and got blown to pieces without due process.
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Kirsi Kirjasto
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Posted - 2010.12.25 16:52:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Kirsi Kirjasto on 25/12/2010 16:52:57 I will reiterate that the setting was not turned off, as I'd gotten it later that evening. Further I do not know how to turn it off....
Though it seems that this 'random GCC' seems to occur to others in roughly similar situations - although I was not 'extending' anything - I merely wanted to destroy all of the wrecks to deny them to the mission runner - and this is not a 'Concord punishable' offense, yet I still got Concorded.
Perhaps somebody could explain how to turn off the Concord warning - I've searched the settings menus, as I WOULD like to have the information to facilitate suicide gankings. (IE accomplish a gank without the annoying popup costing you valuable seconds...)
Most warnings are turned off by checking a box in the warning itself "IE - check this box never to see this warning again..." And all of them can be 'reset' from the ESC menu.
I am just not seeing this anywhere in the "High-sec Concord death" warning. Where is it?
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Shaemell Buttleson
Euphoria Released HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2010.12.25 18:13:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Mashie Saldana
Originally by: Kirsi Kirjasto To my knowledge, there is no way to turn off the GCC warning popup.
Yes it can be disabled.
Please please please tell me how because it's ****ing annoying!
* Please resize your signature to the maximum file size of 24000 bytes. - CCP Ildoge
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Kirsi Kirjasto
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Posted - 2010.12.25 19:00:00 -
[13]
Seems to be the consensus on the other thread, that it is impossible to turn off the 'high sec concord popup'. As nobody has come forward with information on how to do this, I have to conclude that my getting Concorded had nothing to do with my game settings.
A.) Steal loot. B.) Get attacked by owner of loot, get aggro against owner of loot. C.) Shoot other wrecks of loot owner to deprive them of income.
Step C, some of the time, the wrecks just pop as expected. HOWEVER, Seems that sometimes, Concord pops you without the mandatory "If you do this Concord kicks U in the nutz." warning.
Looking for some direction on this: are you allowed to destroy wrecks/cans owned by somebody that has aggressed you - or not?
Is it a violation of Concord law - or not?
Kind of an important question - due to the way Concord, you know, blows up your ship and all.
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Fuzz McBitch
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Posted - 2010.12.25 19:33:00 -
[14]
C) Player who attacked me was gone so decided to blow up the yellow wrecks
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Kirsi Kirjasto
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Posted - 2010.12.25 19:54:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Fuzz Mc***** C) Player who attacked me was gone so decided to blow up the yellow wrecks
yellow <> illegal to shoot I've blown them up plenty of times, after being attacked by the person that owned them.
Plus, even if it was 'illegal', again - why no Concord pop-up warning before getting instapopped?
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Herr Wilkus
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Posted - 2010.12.25 21:03:00 -
[16]
Yes, this happened to me too.
Got attacked by a mission bear, shot a wreck, left the system for 4-5 minutes, returned to the system, shot another wreck, and was instantly GCC'd, no warning popup, just Concorded the minute I triggered my AC 220s.
VERY interested to hear what CCP has to say about this - getting Concorded isn't a 'maybe it happens, maybe it don't' mechanic.
Should be pretty black and white, when Concord is triggered and when it isn't. If this is happening to other players, some kind of effort should be made to explain why and under what conditions, Concord is blowing up ships without warning.
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Roosterton
Internet Submarine Raiders
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Posted - 2010.12.25 22:07:00 -
[17]
EVE should be like GTA, with a CONCORD-o-meter as you break more laws. Popping some wrecks only spawns a few frigates, a few t2 cruisers might spawn to try and kill you if you gank an indy, and attacking a freighter gets the full-on CONCORDOKKEN -------- Enemy corps raided into disbandment: Three.
Originally by: Tarminic
OH MY GOD WHAT HAVE YOU DONE?! |
IllnaIreth
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Posted - 2010.12.25 22:28:00 -
[18]
Darwin Says, don't shoot wrecks its bad m'kay. So im going to exploit his aggro timer, by innocently shooting this wreck here, Concord is exploiting you, for using a known exploit. "new feature"? If not it should be implemented, as its pure genius really.
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Mashie Saldana
Minmatar Veto Corp
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Posted - 2010.12.25 22:41:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Shaemell Buttleson
Originally by: Mashie Saldana
Originally by: Kirsi Kirjasto To my knowledge, there is no way to turn off the GCC warning popup.
Yes it can be disabled.
Please please please tell me how because it's ****ing annoying!
Correction, it could be disabled once upon a time. I see CCP in their wisdom have removed that function as I had it disabled a few years ago (and lost a few ships because of it).
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Buck Futz
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Posted - 2010.12.25 22:54:00 -
[20]
Originally by: IllnaIreth Darwin Says, don't shoot wrecks its bad m'kay. So im going to exploit his aggro timer, by innocently shooting this wreck here, Concord is exploiting you, for using a known exploit. "new feature"? If not it should be implemented, as its pure genius really.
Actually, you miss the point. This strange Concord aggression has never happened to me, but I have heard about it happening to others (indeed, more than once) in situations similar the earlier descriptions.
Concord is 'omnipotent' - but it was designed to follow a set of clearly defined rules.
A thief stealing loot from a mission runner is not a Concord offense. The mission runner attacking the thief is also not a Concord offense. The thief is (presumably) allowed to return fire on the mission runner - AND on the wrecks/cans that belong to the mission runner.
Having a situation where 'sometimes Concord responds without warning' can lead to problems. IE: Faction fit thief gets 'random/no warning' Concordokken, and 'aggroing' mission runner loots the wreck, taking faction mods. Even if the thief gets his ship 'reimbursed', the faction mods are gone due to..what? A bug? An undocumented feature?
People can have any manner of reactions to thieves and aggression mechanics - but I think most people here can honestly agree that it is important that Concord should act in a predictable manner.
"Gee I have aggression rights, but I wonder if Concord will REALLY let me destroy this wreck today," isn't really acceptable.
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Herr Wilkus
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Posted - 2010.12.25 23:07:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Herr Wilkus on 25/12/2010 23:07:43
Originally by: IllnaIreth Darwin Says, don't shoot wrecks its bad m'kay. So im going to exploit his aggro timer, by innocently shooting this wreck here, Concord is exploiting you, for using a known exploit. "new feature"? If not it should be implemented, as its pure genius really.
Hey, I wouldn't be opposed to a little more randomness in Concord's reaction - but if that be the case, it should probably swing both ways. Sure, in your little world its OK for mission thieves to get randomly smited. But I get the feeling that you would be screaming bloody murder if a 'bugged or modified for randomness' Concord decided to 'randomly' stop showing up when industrials and Hulks are ganked in hisec.
Either a behavior is punishable by Concord or it isn't. If shooting wrecks is 'verboten' is should be so 100% of the time - and accompanied by a pop up. If its legal, Concord shouldn't even enter into the equation.
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Holly Hoover
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Posted - 2010.12.26 03:38:00 -
[22]
duh, police brutality. Obviously Concord is corrupt.
"Yes I pvp fight with the market view open!" |
Buck Futz
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Posted - 2010.12.26 12:46:00 -
[23]
As a karate expert, I am quite curious to hear if others have been having problems with random Concord gankings, and whether or not shooting wrecks is Concord-sanctioned behavior.
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Zepp Nugent
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Posted - 2010.12.26 14:16:00 -
[24]
Ahhhhh, sweet pew pew tears... Cry moar plz!
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Infinitio Krystallos
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Posted - 2010.12.26 15:30:00 -
[25]
Everytime I've accidentally clicked a weapons module when meaning to hit my Salvager on a yellow wreck, I do get the "Are you sure you want to proceed with this dangerous act ?" warning. Firing any weapon at anything owned by anyone other than yourself or your Corporation WILL result in CONCORD action in High Sec space.
Plain and simple rule.
End of boring thread.....PLEASE !
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Cipher Jones
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.12.26 15:33:00 -
[26]
It would be a cooler story if you were in a faction fit proteus or something.
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Kirsi Kirjasto
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Posted - 2010.12.26 16:25:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Infinitio Krystallos Everytime I've accidentally clicked a weapons module when meaning to hit my Salvager on a yellow wreck, I do get the "Are you sure you want to proceed with this dangerous act ?" warning. Firing any weapon at anything owned by anyone other than yourself or your Corporation WILL result in CONCORD action in High Sec space.
Plain and simple rule.
Not so plain and simple, you idiot.
If the owner of the wreck attacks you, you are allowed to attack yellow wrecks. MOST of the time. But occasionally, it seems that Concord kills you without a popup window. Question is, why (bug? screwed up aggression flags?) - and how often.
Seems to be a Concord bug (CCP has recently reimbursed the 'cane I lost) - trying to figure how often it happens to others, and perhaps CCP may look into it and fix it.
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Amberlamps
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Posted - 2010.12.26 16:49:00 -
[28]
One of many complaints about Concord today, is Eve dying?
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Roosterton
Internet Submarine Raiders
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Posted - 2010.12.26 17:51:00 -
[29]
CONCORD Hacked by Nation
Today at 17:30 in Yulai, CONCORD's complex defense network was hacked into by a group of operatives claiming to be working for the notorious pirate group who has recently been attacking highsec, Sansha's Nation. The Scope has reported sightings of CONCORD drones and sentry guns opening fire on unarmed transports and innocent civilians, as well as getting into firefights with capsuleer forces. The four empires have been in contact with CONCORD officials, who claim that they have been completely locked out of their own network and no longer have command over their ships and weaponry.
Some argue that similar operations have been carried out against CONCORD in the past, causing incidents such as this one.
Read more
-------- Enemy corps raided into disbandment: Three.
Originally by: Tarminic
OH MY GOD WHAT HAVE YOU DONE?! |
Rothanaya
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Posted - 2010.12.26 18:06:00 -
[30]
OSHI-
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