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Lyn Farel
Knighthood of the Merciful Crown
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Posted - 2011.01.07 19:44:00 -
[181]
Edited by: Lyn Farel on 07/01/2011 19:44:36 [edited : message adressed to Ms Calibri]
That is very wrong. Once again, you just base your assumptions on singular cases. The world is not painted in black and white. |
Syn Callibri
Minmatar 21st Eridani Lighthorse Broken Chains Alliance
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Posted - 2011.01.07 20:02:00 -
[182]
Originally by: Silas Vitalia
Originally by: Syn Callibri
In the eyes of holders and loyalists...all Matari that aren't in chains are criminals...or terrorists.
No. The Ammatar prove just how far you as a people can rise should you choose. As do the Ni-Kunni, Udorians, Khanid, etc.
All those groups demonstrate is that there are those that will give in and bend knee to Amarrian social and theological coercion. Those that will not...are called "slaves, criminals, heretics, savages, and terrorists".
[21EL] Commander Tac-Ops / [21EL] I.S.C. |
EnslaverOfMinmatar
Amarr Viziam
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Posted - 2011.01.07 20:15:00 -
[183]
That's some quality work you're doing there. But we need to send more heavily armed raiding parties to minmatur settlements to .. increase the number of orphans! uʍop ǝpısdn ǝɹnʇɐuƃıs ʎɯ ƃuıpɐǝɹ ǝɹɐ noʎ
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Jesmine Kyriel
Amarr House Kyriel Inc.
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Posted - 2011.01.07 20:27:00 -
[184]
Originally by: Syn Callibri
Originally by: Lyn Farel You kill slavers and release matari slaves, even the criminals ?
In the eyes of holders and loyalists...all Matari that aren't in chains are criminals...or terrorists.
A sweeping generalization. If you only knew how false it is.
_________________________ Exile. Reformist. Elder. |
Syn Callibri
Minmatar 21st Eridani Lighthorse Broken Chains Alliance
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Posted - 2011.01.07 22:18:00 -
[185]
Originally by: Jesmine Kyriel
Originally by: Syn Callibri
Originally by: Lyn Farel You kill slavers and release matari slaves, even the criminals ?
In the eyes of holders and loyalists...all Matari that aren't in chains are criminals...or terrorists.
A sweeping generalization. If you only knew how false it is.
Considering that it is based on first hand experience interacting with both types, I'd have to question whos generalization is the false one.
[21EL] Commander Tac-Ops / [21EL] I.S.C. |
Lyn Farel
Knighthood of the Merciful Crown
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Posted - 2011.01.07 23:33:00 -
[186]
Ms Kyriel did not generalize anything...
All this is starting to make me think you all freedom fighters seem to hate amarrian progressives even more than the conservatives because they do not fit to the vision on the Amarr Empire you want to maintain. It makes your political world easier to apprehend and your own appreciation of good and bad less problematic. It allows you to think less about the implications.
That way you can also forge your own excuses.
Maybe I am wrong, though, nothing is really helping me to think the contrary at the moment. |
Jasmine Sho
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Posted - 2011.01.08 05:36:00 -
[187]
Originally by: Lyn Farel Ms Kyriel did not generalize anything...
All this is starting to make me think you all freedom fighters seem to hate amarrian progressives even more than the conservatives because they do not fit to the vision on the Amarr Empire you want to maintain. It makes your political world easier to apprehend and your own appreciation of good and bad less problematic. It allows you to think less about the implications.
That way you can also forge your own excuses.
Maybe I am wrong, though, nothing is really helping me to think the contrary at the moment.
Oh but you're wrong...she states the general attitude that there can be peace and sining around campfires together with the Amarrian holders and loyalists, even while we have brothers and sisters still held captive against thier wills as slaves by the empire...this will not happen.
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Merdaneth
Amarr Angel Wing.
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Posted - 2011.01.10 00:43:00 -
[188]
Originally by: Lyn Farel All this is starting to make me think you all freedom fighters seem to hate amarrian progressives even more than the conservatives because they do not fit to the vision on the Amarr Empire you want to maintain. It makes your political world easier to apprehend and your own appreciation of good and bad less problematic. It allows you to think less about the implications.
Many Minmatar simply want to fight and kill. Most of them are not searching for a peaceful solution.
No Minmatar complains when I report I shoot several Republic affiliates ships and create some orphans. That is what they expect of me. But when you try to help some orphans by funding a few orphanages, then it's suddenly a problem.
Likewise, freeing slaves but still being loyal to the Empire and God doesn't fit their conveniently black-and-white view of the world.
Do you Republic supporters honestly prefer me pouring funds into the forging of machines of war designed to kill Republic loyalists, or buying clothes for Matari orphans?
____
The Illusion of Freedom | The Truth about Slavery |
Sakura Imoru
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Posted - 2011.01.10 12:21:00 -
[189]
Originally by: Merdaneth
Originally by: Lyn Farel All this is starting to make me think you all freedom fighters seem to hate amarrian progressives even more than the conservatives because they do not fit to the vision on the Amarr Empire you want to maintain. It makes your political world easier to apprehend and your own appreciation of good and bad less problematic. It allows you to think less about the implications.
Many Minmatar simply want to fight and kill. Most of them are not searching for a peaceful solution.
No Minmatar complains when I report I shoot several Republic affiliates ships and create some orphans. That is what they expect of me. But when you try to help some orphans by funding a few orphanages, then it's suddenly a problem.
Likewise, freeing slaves but still being loyal to the Empire and God doesn't fit their conveniently black-and-white view of the world.
Do you Republic supporters honestly prefer me pouring funds into the forging of machines of war designed to kill Republic loyalists, or buying clothes for Matari orphans?
No, but at least I would have preferred that you do not do this out of hiding using third-party companies, but directly, so that we can control what's going on in the orphanages in question by keeping a close eye onto them and most importantly on you, since we do have little trust in Amarrians.
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Syn Callibri
Minmatar 21st Eridani Lighthorse Broken Chains Alliance
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Posted - 2011.01.10 16:11:00 -
[190]
Originally by: Sakura Imoru
No, but at least I would have preferred that you do not do this out of hiding using third-party companies, but directly, so that we can control what's going on in the orphanages in question by keeping a close eye onto them and most importantly on you, since we do have little trust in Amarrians.
...and groups operating in Soverign Republic Territory are considered to be governed under Republic law and oversight as well, I believe.
[21EL] Commander Tac-Ops / [21EL] I.S.C. |
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Merdaneth
Amarr Angel Wing.
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Posted - 2011.01.10 18:29:00 -
[191]
Originally by: Sakura Imoru No, but at least I would have preferred that you do not do this out of hiding using third-party companies, but directly, so that we can control what's going on in the orphanages in question by keeping a close eye onto them and most importantly on you, since we do have little trust in Amarrians.
You don't need to know who is funding an orphanage to institute appropriate controls. If you check with prejudice, then of course you are going to find what you seek. Also, you should reign in that racist streak. I think it rather dumb to paint all people of Amarrian descent with the same broad stroke. And what do you mean with 'we'. I think you mean 'I'.
Also, I thought that a state controlling what goes on in an orphanage was against your freedom dogma? ____
The Illusion of Freedom | The Truth about Slavery |
Syn Callibri
Minmatar 21st Eridani Lighthorse Broken Chains Alliance
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Posted - 2011.01.10 18:51:00 -
[192]
Edited by: Syn Callibri on 10/01/2011 18:51:23
Originally by: Merdaneth
Originally by: Sakura Imoru No, but at least I would have preferred that you do not do this out of hiding using third-party companies, but directly, so that we can control what's going on in the orphanages in question by keeping a close eye onto them and most importantly on you, since we do have little trust in Amarrians.
You don't need to know who is funding an orphanage to institute appropriate controls. If you check with prejudice, then of course you are going to find what you seek. Also, you should reign in that racist streak. I think it rather dumb to paint all people of Amarrian descent with the same broad stroke. And what do you mean with 'we'. I think you mean 'I'.
Also, I thought that a state controlling what goes on in an orphanage was against your freedom dogma?
I think you're confusing freedom with irresponsibility and anarchy. Understandable, since the concept of real freedom is almost alien and of course heretical in the Empire.
[21EL] Commander Tac-Ops / [21EL] I.S.C. |
Sakura Imoru
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Posted - 2011.01.10 19:20:00 -
[193]
Besides: The price of freedom is eternal vigilance.
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Lyn Farel
Knighthood of the Merciful Crown
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Posted - 2011.01.10 20:05:00 -
[194]
Yes, I am not sure what is different with third parties. Obviously you controled them nevertheless and they faced a quick justice.
I can be mistaken though, as you claim to be experts and officials of the republican laws.
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Syn Callibri
Minmatar 21st Eridani Lighthorse Broken Chains Alliance
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Posted - 2011.01.10 20:42:00 -
[195]
Originally by: Lyn Farel Yes, I am not sure what is different with third parties. Obviously you controled them nevertheless and they faced a quick justice.
I can be mistaken though, as you claim to be experts and officials of the republican laws.
Why not? Pretty much every loyalist and holder apparently speaks for the empress...OH, and has a personal hotline to "god" too.
Being a loyal citizen of the Republic does tend to make one familiar with its laws you know.
[21EL] Commander Tac-Ops / [21EL] I.S.C. |
Lyn Farel
Knighthood of the Merciful Crown
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Posted - 2011.01.10 22:40:00 -
[196]
I am not saying the contrary. I was just wondering what was the issue with the third parties.
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Neu Bastian
Minmatar Murientor Tribe
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Posted - 2011.01.11 19:57:00 -
[197]
Originally by: Merdaneth
Do you Republic supporters honestly prefer me pouring funds into the forging of machines of war designed to kill Republic loyalists, or buying clothes for Matari orphans?
I prefer honest death and destruction over children brainwashing any day.
Quote:
Neu Bastian Murientor Tribe
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Lyn Farel
Knighthood of the Merciful Crown
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Posted - 2011.01.11 20:08:00 -
[198]
Pure rhetorics, but aren't you too brainwashing them with your propaganda ? |
Mizhara Del'thul
Minmatar Masuat'aa Matari
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Posted - 2011.01.11 20:21:00 -
[199]
Originally by: Lyn Farel Pure rhetorics, but aren't you too brainwashing them with your propaganda ?
There's propaganda... which is what the Amarr use to brainwash slaves and children... and there's seven hundred years of verifiable history.
Backstage @ Inspiracy. The new Eve RP Forums, now with 10% more fun! |
Merdaneth
Amarr Angel Wing.
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Posted - 2011.01.11 20:49:00 -
[200]
Originally by: Neu Bastian I prefer honest death and destruction over children brainwashing any day.
If we are to killing each other over cultural differences, it seems obvious that either one or both cultures will need to adapt.
The only alternative is genocide. You may be willing to pay that price, I'm not. The Matari are children of the Lord too. They deserve a chance at have a proper life and save their immortal soul from damnation. ____
The Illusion of Freedom | The Truth about Slavery |
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Syn Callibri
Minmatar 21st Eridani Lighthorse Broken Chains Alliance
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Posted - 2011.01.11 21:29:00 -
[201]
Originally by: Merdaneth
Originally by: Neu Bastian I prefer honest death and destruction over children brainwashing any day.
If we are to killing each other over cultural differences, it seems obvious that either one or both cultures will need to adapt.
The only alternative is genocide. You may be willing to pay that price, I'm not. The Matari are children of the Lord too. They deserve a chance at have a proper life and save their immortal soul from damnation.
...as long as they do it in the method approved by the Empire.
/sarcasm off
[21EL] Commander Tac-Ops / [21EL] I.S.C. |
Neu Bastian
Minmatar Murientor Tribe
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Posted - 2011.01.11 23:10:00 -
[202]
Originally by: Merdaneth
Originally by: Neu Bastian I prefer honest death and destruction over children brainwashing any day.
If we are to killing each other over cultural differences, it seems obvious that either one or both cultures will need to adapt.
The only alternative is genocide. You may be willing to pay that price, I'm not. The Matari are children of the Lord too. They deserve a chance at have a proper life and save their immortal soul from damnation.
I don't want to kill your kind Amarrian, I just want your kind to let my people go, and accept we want to live our way, not yours.
The great majority of us don't care for your salvation, nor for this war which you have brought upon the Matari people since you first set foot on Pator, one thousand years ago.
Quote:
Neu Bastian Murientor Tribe
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Lyn Farel
Knighthood of the Merciful Crown
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Posted - 2011.01.12 01:20:00 -
[203]
Edited by: Lyn Farel on 12/01/2011 01:20:38
Originally by: Mizhara Del'thul and there's seven hundred years of verifiable history.
Yes indeed. Slavery, amarrian oppression, amarrian benevolence, minmatar terrorism, amarrian and minmatar blood, minmatar emancipation, Heideran, 9th generations of slaves liberated, minmatar regaining wealth and pride, etc.
What is your conclusion over those seven hundred years of verifiable history aldready ? |
Neu Bastian
Minmatar Murientor Tribe
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Posted - 2011.01.12 01:25:00 -
[204]
Originally by: Lyn Farel Edited by: Lyn Farel on 12/01/2011 01:20:38
Originally by: Mizhara Del'thul and there's seven hundred years of verifiable history.
Yes indeed. Slavery, amarrian oppression, amarrian benevolence, minmatar terrorism, amarrian and minmatar blood, minmatar emancipation, Heideran, 9th generations of slaves liberated, minmatar regaining wealth and pride, etc.
What is your conclusion over those seven hundred years of verifiable history aldready ?
That slavery still exists.
Quote:
Neu Bastian Murientor Tribe
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Lyn Farel
Knighthood of the Merciful Crown
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Posted - 2011.01.12 01:29:00 -
[205]
And I am not denying that.
My point is that with Ms Del'thul bigoted propaganda, we skip 75% of the history she is talking about.
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Neu Bastian
Minmatar Murientor Tribe
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Posted - 2011.01.12 12:48:00 -
[206]
Edited by: Neu Bastian on 12/01/2011 12:48:17
Originally by: Lyn Farel And I am not denying that.
My point is that with Ms Del'thul bigoted propaganda, we skip 75% of the history she is talking about.
It's not bigoted propaganda. We don't want your pitty or condescendence either Amarrian. Slaves being released in some charitable act of benevolence towards "the poor misguided children of god" is not the same as recognizing that all humans are equals and that slavery is a crime against humanity that needs abolishing.
There are plenty in the empire who clamor for reclaiming still. When those voices die down, when slaves begin being released out of realization that slavery is a heinous crime, then I will have faith in Amarrian reform and the end of this war.
Until then...
Blood for Freedom
Quote:
Neu Bastian Murientor Tribe
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Lyn Farel
Knighthood of the Merciful Crown
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Posted - 2011.01.12 14:21:00 -
[207]
Edited by: Lyn Farel on 12/01/2011 14:23:08 Edited by: Lyn Farel on 12/01/2011 14:21:35 [edited for too many mistakes]
It IS bigoted propaganda, as much as biased as any amarrian conservative speech.
You still do not want to admit your faults too ?
You ask for all the pro slavery voices to die down, yet you feed them with hainous acts and war.
You claim the Empire is perpetrating crimes against humanity with slavery, yet you do exactly the same by murdering every amarrian falling into your grasp. Or maybe it is not you, but the more radical of yours ? I don't care.
You ask for the amarrian conservatives to stop, I ask for your bloodthirsty warmongers to stop behaving like bloody animals not even fighting for their brothers, but for their hatred which is consuming them.
If none of the parties involved are ready to do a step forward, then so be it, and don't be surprised to see your blood flow as much as ours. And you will have achieved nothing but this incredible amount of wasted lives that has been our fate since these last 700 years.
Blood for freedom ? No, blood for blood.
And who will suffer the most ? The slaves and the spoils of war in both sides, I am afraid. And that will be your doing. |
Syn Callibri
Minmatar 21st Eridani Lighthorse Broken Chains Alliance
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Posted - 2011.01.12 14:33:00 -
[208]
Originally by: Lyn Farel Edited by: Lyn Farel on 12/01/2011 01:20:38
Originally by: Mizhara Del'thul and there's seven hundred years of verifiable history.
Yes indeed. Slavery, amarrian oppression, amarrian benevolence, minmatar terrorism, amarrian and minmatar blood, minmatar emancipation, Heideran, 9th generations of slaves liberated, minmatar regaining wealth and pride, etc.
What is your conclusion over those seven hundred years of verifiable history aldready ?
Many in the "benevolent epmire" still call for reclamation...many in the empire stll consider our people nothing better than runaway slaves and savages...many in the empire support the use of VITOC to control slaves...many in the empire still gain large amounts of wealth in the trade of slaves to imperial citizens...the empress expects a "token" gesture to make everything better and placate the Minmatar people...many in the empire believe that by enslaving our people they are "saving" our people...
...slavery still exists in the empire, as long as it does I believe that it is safe to say that there will be no lasting peace between the Amarr and the Matari...
...many times I have put my personal feelings aside and shed blood with Amarrian warriors in the war against Nation. Time and time again they have proven to me that thier valor and courage is no less than my own. Those are the exceptions and they are few indeed. So you see I am not simply spewing hatred for the Amarr...I am disappointed in them.
[21EL] Commander Tac-Ops / [21EL] I.S.C. |
Mizhara Del'thul
Minmatar Masuat'aa Matari
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Posted - 2011.01.12 14:41:00 -
[209]
How can there be anything but war when your people hold a third of ours? How can there be anything but hatred for those who sneer at the 'dogs' and 'lesser races' while holding our kind in bondage? There is no propaganda. There is no middleground or extenuating circumstances. The truth is that the Empire you serve, support and aid allows for these vile crimes to remain. As long as this is the case, there is only one option...
Impose a price of blood and suffering for every moment our people remain in bondage.
You want the war to end? You want peace? Then turn to your Empire and say "No more!".
Oh, I have no illusions about being 'righteous' or not having grave flaws... but if I have to become even worse than the Empire to rid New Eden of your vile presence... then so be it. I will pay that price.
Backstage @ Inspiracy. The new Eve RP Forums, now with 10% more fun! |
Lyn Farel
Knighthood of the Merciful Crown
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Posted - 2011.01.12 20:45:00 -
[210]
Edited by: Lyn Farel on 12/01/2011 20:50:29
Originally by: Syn Callibri
Many in the "benevolent empire" still call for reclamation...many in the empire stll consider our people nothing better than runaway slaves and savages...many in the empire support the use of VITOC to control slaves...many in the empire still gain large amounts of wealth in the trade of slaves to imperial citizens...the empress expects a "token" gesture to make everything better and placate the Minmatar people...many in the empire believe that by enslaving our people they are "saving" our people...
...slavery still exists in the empire, as long as it does I believe that it is safe to say that there will be no lasting peace between the Amarr and the Matari...
...many times I have put my personal feelings aside and shed blood with Amarrian warriors in the war against Nation. Time and time again they have proven to me that thier valor and courage is no less than my own. Those are the exceptions and they are few indeed. So you see I am not simply spewing hatred for the Amarr...I am disappointed in them.
As far as admitting my own flaws...I am a monster, a cruel and brutal creation, but I am a monster made in your empire.
That is just what I wanted to read, at last.
Originally by: Syn Callibri ...slavery still exists in the empire, as long as it does I believe that it is safe to say that there will be no lasting peace between the Amarr and the Matari...
Oh yes, I definitly agree.
Originally by: Syn Callibri
Again, brave words, but still just words. IF you want the wars and suffering to end, the citizens of the empire must raise thier voices and say "enough, no more", until then...blood will be spilled on both sides.
That is what I am doing. As stated before, by my own means, which I believe to be no less efficient.
Maybe the little difference resides in the fact I am also saying it to the other side. You know, the kind thinking just because some conservatives and slavers are their targets that everyone born in the Empire or living in it has to be exterminated.
A bit of editing : as Ms Saikoyu has not answered to my call, I am wondering if any of you know someone willing to recieve the slaves I freed as stated here ? They are still looking to get back in the Republic, and I wouldn't want to risk wasting lives by venturing myself in the Republic territory. |
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