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thisisnotright
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Posted - 2010.12.27 17:52:00 -
[1]
Edited by: thisisnotright on 27/12/2010 17:54:18 I seem to recall that that was the actual quote, but I'm sure you will correct me if I'm wrong.
I never understood that statement, having played EVE since a time when battleships took many months to get in form of endless hours of mining and crap agent loot. Yes the game mechanics were pretty funny, and by today's standards it was broken, but it was endlessly better than it is today.
A battleship is not meant to be a solo pwnmobile? I guess that thought pattern comes from player A meeting player B and player A "pwning" player B just because hes in a battleship? Ok. This was during exodus if I remember correctly. What about player A meeting player B and pwning player B just because hes in an alliance? No no, I'm not arguing for a single player to be able to "pwn" a whole alliance. If you are not an anti-intellectual you will continue to read and reply later, if you are then you will be typing furiously right now. I can imagine it being in the lines of "l2p/whine/cry" or whatever. (The EVE community took a serious hit when Star Wars Galaxy died and thousand of Americans started to migrate from it as well as World of warcraft)
The reasons you nerfed "solo pwnmobiles" are the same reasons you should now boost soloplay. The EVE universe in quite crowded, your game made it. Congratulations. Prime time on Saturdays has more than 2000 players like it once had, its 500000 players now.
the game is great in so many ways, but it lacks options people who care little of being a petty peasant in an alliance machine. EVe online once had options for such individuals, but the development over the last years has greatly decreased these options.
Boost soloplay CCP
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Xercodo
Amarr INESTO Task Force
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Posted - 2010.12.27 17:59:00 -
[2]
1) lol @ name 2) While I don't think you picked the best way to argue your point I do see merit in what your trying to say. That being said, I fear that CCP change things too much cause i kinda like how it is now cause of familiarity and all that hehe...
-------------------------------------------------- The drake is a lie
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Lady Spank
Amarr Trillionaire High-Rollers Suicidal Bassoon Orkesta
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Posted - 2010.12.27 18:03:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Lady Spank on 27/12/2010 18:04:59 Was there a point to this verbal diarrhoea?
EDIT: Oh I see, It's a stealth anti-American troll
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Professor Tarantula
Hedion University
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Posted - 2010.12.27 18:06:00 -
[4]
It occured to me the other day that when it comes to the game CCP talks up how corporations need to have hundreds of players and be in alliances of thousands in order to succeed, and that just makes sense, but in reality their own corporation, CCP, is kept as small as possible.
My Warmest Regards. Prof. Tarantula, Esq. |
Morrn
Gallente Organized Chaos Inc
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Posted - 2010.12.27 18:07:00 -
[5]
If you arent able to get down to buisness without being in an alliance, then you broke something.
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Zhim'Fufu
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Posted - 2010.12.27 18:11:00 -
[6]
Originally by: thisisnotright (The EVE community took a serious hit when Star Wars Galaxy died and thousand of Americans started to migrate from it as well as World of warcraft)
Don't forget the russians and chinese! Oh and the french too!
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Sean Faust
Gallente Point of No Return Waterboard
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Posted - 2010.12.27 18:27:00 -
[7]
Look at real life combat. "Solo" kills are never accomplished by marching a big heavy tank or battleship alone into enemy territory. They're accomplished using snipers, stealth, or some other form of guerilla warfare. Battleships and tanks and other similar big, heavy, slow, high-damage combat vehicles are ALWAYS escorted by support troops/fleets/whatever.
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Goose99
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Posted - 2010.12.27 18:33:00 -
[8]
Right now, the "pwn mobile" would be HAC/T3, not BS. No one uses BS anymore because they overgimped it. CCP needs to roll back some, but not all of the gimp so it's actually balanced. When everyone uses something (HAC), that's a good indication it's OP, when no one use something (BS), it's gimped. Once there's a nice mix, it's a sign that you've achieved balance.
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Ian Holloway
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Posted - 2010.12.27 18:38:00 -
[9]
It's wrong, the FA shouldn't allow this to happen. It is wrong and needs to be fixed.
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Ranger 1
Amarr Dynaverse Corporation Sodalitas XX
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Posted - 2010.12.27 18:43:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Goose99 Right now, the "pwn mobile" would be HAC/T3, not BS. No one uses BS anymore because they overgimped it. CCP needs to roll back some, but not all of the gimp so it's actually balanced. When everyone uses something (HAC), that's a good indication it's OP, when no one use something (BS), it's gimped. Once there's a nice mix, it's a sign that you've achieved balance.
... because no one uses Battleships in PVP anymore.
===== If you go to Za'Ha'Dum I will gank you. |
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Professor Tarantula
Hedion University
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Posted - 2010.12.27 18:46:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Sean Faust Look at real life combat. "Solo" kills are never accomplished by marching a big heavy tank or battleship alone into enemy territory. They're accomplished using snipers, stealth, or some other form of guerilla warfare. Battleships and tanks and other similar big, heavy, slow, high-damage combat vehicles are ALWAYS escorted by support troops/fleets/whatever.
Tanks were initially designed to be solo infantry pwnmobiles, not to fight other tanks. Everything in RL military strategy develops around killing as many enemy troops as possible with the least amount of your own men and effort. As a counter to tanks, infantry weapons were deveoped which allowed one man to take out a tank and its crew.
And lets not even start with bombs. There's individual stealth craft now which can easily 'solo' entire countries with dropped munitions.
My Warmest Regards. Prof. Tarantula, Esq. |
Goose99
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Posted - 2010.12.27 18:47:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Ranger 1
Originally by: Goose99 Right now, the "pwn mobile" would be HAC/T3, not BS. No one uses BS anymore because they overgimped it. CCP needs to roll back some, but not all of the gimp so it's actually balanced. When everyone uses something (HAC), that's a good indication it's OP, when no one use something (BS), it's gimped. Once there's a nice mix, it's a sign that you've achieved balance.
... because no one uses Battleships in PVP anymore.
Yep. Not even in larger gangs post-dominion, and definitely not solo. They're still around as baits, but that's a minor role and not direct pvp.
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baltec1
Antares Shipyards Phalanx Alliance
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Posted - 2010.12.27 18:47:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Goose99 Right now, the "pwn mobile" would be HAC/T3, not BS. No one uses BS anymore because they overgimped it. CCP needs to roll back some, but not all of the gimp so it's actually balanced. When everyone uses something (HAC), that's a good indication it's OP, when no one use something (BS), it's gimped. Once there's a nice mix, it's a sign that you've achieved balance.
I still use BS in small fast gangs
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Iraherag
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Posted - 2010.12.27 19:38:00 -
[14]
Originally by: baltec1
Originally by: Goose99 Right now, the "pwn mobile" would be HAC/T3, not BS. No one uses BS anymore because they overgimped it. CCP needs to roll back some, but not all of the gimp so it's actually balanced. When everyone uses something (HAC), that's a good indication it's OP, when no one use something (BS), it's gimped. Once there's a nice mix, it's a sign that you've achieved balance.
I still use BS in small fast gangs
urdoinitrong, yes?
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Fkn Arson
0ne Percent.
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Posted - 2010.12.27 20:21:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Goose99
Originally by: Ranger 1
Originally by: Goose99 Right now, the "pwn mobile" would be HAC/T3, not BS. No one uses BS anymore because they overgimped it. CCP needs to roll back some, but not all of the gimp so it's actually balanced. When everyone uses something (HAC), that's a good indication it's OP, when no one use something (BS), it's gimped. Once there's a nice mix, it's a sign that you've achieved balance.
... because no one uses Battleships in PVP anymore.
Yep. Not even in larger gangs post-dominion, and definitely not solo. They're still around as baits, but that's a minor role and not direct pvp.
My sarcasm meter, it just blew up, damn you both!
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Zendoren
Aktaeon Industries
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Posted - 2010.12.27 20:26:00 -
[16]
LINK
THIS!!!!!
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hired goon
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Posted - 2010.12.27 20:29:00 -
[17]
Before we continue can someone please explain to me why you would subscribe to a 'Massively Multiplayer' game, then complain on said game's forums there is a lack of solo-play?
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Professor Tarantula
Hedion University
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Posted - 2010.12.27 20:31:00 -
[18]
Originally by: hired goon Before we continue can someone please explain to me why you would subscribe to a 'Massively Multiplayer' game, then complain on said game's forums there is a lack of solo-play?
Because they're more interested in kicking ass than making friends?
My Warmest Regards. Prof. Tarantula, Esq. |
Stratharn
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Posted - 2010.12.27 20:31:00 -
[19]
So what are people using for the solo pwnmobile stuff then?
I know that drakes were favoured for a while. What gives you bang for buck at the moment? Rifter 3D
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Grimpak
Gallente The Whitehound Corporation Hounds of Anarchy
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Posted - 2010.12.27 20:33:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Professor Tarantula
Originally by: hired goon Before we continue can someone please explain to me why you would subscribe to a 'Massively Multiplayer' game, then complain on said game's forums there is a lack of solo-play?
Because they're more interested in kicking ass than making friends?
can't you kick ass AND make friends?
or actually making friends that like to kick ass like you? ---
Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |
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Professor Tarantula
Hedion University
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Posted - 2010.12.27 20:58:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Grimpak Can't you kick ass AND make friends?
or actually making friends that like to kick ass like you?
A good solo PvP experience would encourage that.
I'm just saying solo PvP isn't a completely unreasonable subject in MMOs. Many people join them to compete with and destroy other players from around the world on a personal level, not to be just another forgotten name in the blob, fighting for someone elses goals.
My Warmest Regards. Prof. Tarantula, Esq. |
De'Veldrin
Minmatar Green-Core The Obsidian Legion
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Posted - 2010.12.27 21:07:00 -
[22]
Originally by: thisisnotright (The EVE community took a serious hit when Star Wars Galaxy died and thousand of Americans started to migrate from it as well as World of warcraft)
Speaking as an American who has never played either of those two games, **** you.
Also, the quote is
Quote:
The carrier was never meant to be an OMGWTF mission running PWNMobile.
If you're going to ***** about Americans, at least apply the stealth whine layer correctly, moron. --Vel
I'm more of a care-badger. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2010.12.27 21:08:00 -
[23]
Battleships aren't meant to be solo pwnmobiles for a very simple reason: because nothing is.
That is not the same as saying that stuff can't be used solo ù it's just that solo, each and every piece of "stuff" can be very easily countered. Playing solo is simply about using the right tool for the situation you want to be in, and then making sure you find yourself in that exact situation. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
TimMc
Brutal Deliverance Extreme Prejudice.
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Posted - 2010.12.27 21:23:00 -
[24]
Nothing should solopwn. Solo should be very hard because its an MMO - there will always be 2 or more people to fight you.
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AlleyKat
Gallente The Unwanted.
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Posted - 2010.12.27 21:30:00 -
[25]
When it comes to running level 4 missions, battleships are solopwnmobiles...
AK EVE-ONLINE Video-Making Tutorials Vid - New Tricks |
Rented
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Posted - 2010.12.27 21:32:00 -
[26]
Yes to increasing solo-playability. No to how ******ed you are.
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Professor Tarantula
Hedion University
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Posted - 2010.12.27 21:36:00 -
[27]
It does make sense for there to be power in numbers, but it should be within reason.
On the small and large scales things are too skewed in favor of numbers.
My Warmest Regards. Prof. Tarantula, Esq. |
Mina Hiragi
Caldari School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2010.12.27 21:38:00 -
[28]
Originally by: hired goon Before we continue can someone please explain to me why you would subscribe to a 'Massively Multiplayer' game, then complain on said game's forums there is a lack of solo-play?
Because massively multiplayer means nothing more than, "Several metric arse loads of players". It does not inherently mean, "Everyone split into two teams, guys!" |
Rented
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Posted - 2010.12.27 21:40:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Mina Hiragi
Originally by: hired goon Before we continue can someone please explain to me why you would subscribe to a 'Massively Multiplayer' game, then complain on said game's forums there is a lack of solo-play?
Because massively multiplayer means nothing more than, "Several metric arse loads of players". It does not inherently mean, "Everyone split into two teams, guys!"
Good post. I lol'd.
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thisisnotright
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Posted - 2010.12.27 21:40:00 -
[30]
Edited by: thisisnotright on 27/12/2010 21:43:01
Originally by: hired goon Before we continue can someone please explain to me why you would subscribe to a 'Massively Multiplayer' game, then complain on said game's forums there is a lack of solo-play?
For one there is the setting. You know, space.
This means that space is not like your college dorm, with the keg-meizter shouting "ok everyone get into safespot so we can log off so we can trick our single enemy cruiser into attacking our bait destroyer that will drop a cyno so we can warp our 100 man gang+cap ships and gank him".
If you are younger, then I guess the analogy would be that space is not like elementary school. Even though you might find yourself in a group of people who view themselves as the stuff, there is a whole world out there. In current mechanics that world is not there.
I'm not sure where you find this idea that 'Massively Multiplayer' means being the drone of nihilistic people with ego issues.
Originally by: De'Veldrin
Speaking as an American who has never played either of those two games, **** you.
Well you should. You appear to fit right in.
Quote:
Also, the quote is The carrier was never meant to be an OMGWTF mission running PWNMobile. If you're going to ***** about Americans, at least apply the stealth whine layer correctly, moron.
How predictable and boring. Not only are your tantrum misguided. You are also wrong. No one but you are talking about carriers.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2010.12.27 21:43:00 -
[31]
Originally by: AlleyKat When it comes to running level 4 missions, battleships are solopwnmobiles...
AK
Sure, but so are HACs, Stratcruisers, Field CSesà hell, even BCs and Combat Recons will do. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Ranger 1
Amarr Dynaverse Corporation Sodalitas XX
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Posted - 2010.12.27 21:47:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Goose99
Originally by: Ranger 1
Originally by: Goose99 Right now, the "pwn mobile" would be HAC/T3, not BS. No one uses BS anymore because they overgimped it. CCP needs to roll back some, but not all of the gimp so it's actually balanced. When everyone uses something (HAC), that's a good indication it's OP, when no one use something (BS), it's gimped. Once there's a nice mix, it's a sign that you've achieved balance.
... because no one uses Battleships in PVP anymore.
Yep. Not even in larger gangs post-dominion, and definitely not solo. They're still around as baits, but that's a minor role and not direct pvp.
I'm not saying that more options for players wanting to make a difference in PVP situations solo is "necessarily" a bad thing.
However if you think that battleships are no longer used in fleet combat or by solo specialists... you need to get out more.
===== If you go to Za'Ha'Dum I will gank you. |
Kattshiro
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.12.27 21:52:00 -
[33]
It's a game involving thousands and thousands of people... Not really viable
Play X3TC you might get your BS wtf pwn everything fix.
Realistically a BS could beat near everything in the water/sky (At a given range). But then again destroyers where first invented to guard dreadnoughts from smaller craft (initial name was torpedo destroyers) once they got under the larger turrets firing line. They and frigates were then adopted to for anti sub warfare due to their speed and agility.
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Professor Tarantula
Hedion University
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Posted - 2010.12.27 22:12:00 -
[34]
Edited by: Professor Tarantula on 27/12/2010 22:14:20
Originally by: Kattshiro It's a game involving thousands and thousands of people... Not really viable
That's exactly why it should be viable. In real life, having large numbers can be used against you. Everyone likes talking about risk vs reward, but wheres the risk in just derping around in a blob?
My Warmest Regards. Prof. Tarantula, Esq. |
Fat Willy
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Posted - 2010.12.27 22:12:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Sean Faust Look at real life combat. "Solo" kills are never accomplished by marching a big heavy tank or battleship alone into enemy territory. They're accomplished using snipers, stealth, or some other form of guerilla warfare. Battleships and tanks and other similar big, heavy, slow, high-damage combat vehicles are ALWAYS escorted by support troops/fleets/whatever.
I entirely disagree. You've not heard of Bismarck versus Hood? Bismarck was a solpwtfpwnmobile, it took a whole taskforce to subsequently take her down. I think the current EVE dynamics fit this model nicely.
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Major Sackrash
Odium Certa
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Posted - 2010.12.27 22:13:00 -
[36]
I want my god damn solopwnmobile battleship back god damnit and if I don't then god damnit!!! I've waited too long CCP, it's time, to REMOVE THE STACKING PENALTY...
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Kattshiro
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.12.27 22:22:00 -
[37]
Quote: That's exactly why it should be viable. In real life, having large numbers can be used against you. Everyone likes talking about risk vs reward, but wheres the risk in just derping around in a blob?
How does that work when the other thousand all have the same access? This either leads to dramatic uneven balance or results in null because everyone can get one.Then due to skill training time etc, how is it fair to others? Blobbing is something CCP can't really control (or measures to do so would violate the sandbox mentality)
You can't have wtfpwn mobiles for individuals in MMO's.
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Professor Tarantula
Hedion University
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Posted - 2010.12.27 22:47:00 -
[38]
Edited by: Professor Tarantula on 27/12/2010 22:53:37
Originally by: Kattshiro Blobbing is something CCP can't really control (or measures to do so would violate the sandbox mentality)
Their name is Crowd Control Productions, so if they can't that would be a shame.
And it wouldn't violate the mythical 'sandbox' to have something like better AOE bombs which could be used effectively against clusters of ships from range. It's the type of thing that exists in real life, and keeps troops from bunching up. Wouldn't have to be ridiculously devastating damage, just enough to give a disadvantage to groups. Maybe make the power multiply for however many ships it damages or something.
I tend to think if we really were this far in the future we'd have developed all kinds of crazy supernova bombs, but it seems to be one of the areas of weapon development which has been overlooked in favor of maintaining the status quo in 0.0.
My Warmest Regards. Prof. Tarantula, Esq. |
Opertone
Caldari World - of - Empire
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Posted - 2010.12.27 23:02:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Zendoren LINK
THIS!!!!!
STATE OF POST EPIC
UOU HIT IT
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Kattshiro
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.12.27 23:05:00 -
[40]
I wasn't referring to CCP creating new weapons more so inserting direct control over allowing x amount of players into a system at one time.
There was a anti blob weapon...and people got mad. Furthermore I'd be all for nukes, but whats to stop anyone from using them on a single target or nonblob?
Cost? Such as that to a cap? So would be such a waste of money using it against anything less?
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Opertone
Caldari World - of - Empire
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Posted - 2010.12.27 23:05:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Professor Tarantula Edited by: Professor Tarantula on 27/12/2010 22:53:37
Originally by: Kattshiro Blobbing is something CCP can't really control (or measures to do so would violate the sandbox mentality)
Their name is Crowd Control Productions, so if they can't that would be a shame.
And it wouldn't violate the mythical 'sandbox' to have something like better AOE bombs which could be used effectively against clusters of ships from range. It's the type of thing that exists in real life, and keeps troops from bunching up. Wouldn't have to be ridiculously devastating damage, just enough to give a disadvantage to groups. Maybe make the power multiply for however many ships it damages or something.
I tend to think if we really were this far in the future we'd have developed all kinds of crazy supernova bombs, but it seems to be one of the areas of weapon development which has been overlooked in favor of maintaining the status quo in 0.0.
you speak the truth... AOE damage controls the crowd... CCP needs to introduce AOE ECM weapons and AOE shockwave weapons... just like smart bombs, but take serious penalties to capacitor and recharge rate.
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Mista Sexamalicious
Sexa Inc
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Posted - 2010.12.27 23:14:00 -
[42]
Re-introduce Splash Damage. ________________________________________________________
Real Men don't use Local.
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Professor Tarantula
Hedion University
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Posted - 2010.12.27 23:15:00 -
[43]
They just have to provide a reason not to travel in giant groups. Make it more efficient or safer to travel light, and people will. Whatever that reason may be. Right now there is no downside to having numbers, and no benefit to being solo, and it's not realistic.
My Warmest Regards. Prof. Tarantula, Esq. |
Messoroz
The Scope
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Posted - 2010.12.27 23:33:00 -
[44]
Edited by: Messoroz on 27/12/2010 23:36:22 Edited by: Messoroz on 27/12/2010 23:33:35 If with the OP's argument that he wants BSes to be solopwnmobile, then by logic a supercap should be able to solo every single freaking thing thrown at it, including a 900 man blob.
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Kattshiro
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.12.27 23:39:00 -
[45]
Edited by: Kattshiro on 27/12/2010 23:42:22 Shouldnt the benefit to being solo be one of "Below the radar"? Other than that realistically (since we keep bringing up the subject) there aren't a whole lot of benefits to being solo.
Strictly speaking why should there be?
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Zyck
Dark-Rising
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Posted - 2010.12.28 00:00:00 -
[46]
"l2p/whine/cry" or whatever
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Sraik Doubter
PWNED THEORY
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Posted - 2010.12.28 00:00:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Kattshiro Edited by: Kattshiro on 27/12/2010 23:42:22 Shouldnt the benefit to being solo be one of "Below the radar"? Other than that realistically (since we keep bringing up the subject) there aren't a whole lot of benefits to being solo.
Strictly speaking why should there be?
Hmmm....oddly this broke something loose in my beer-clogged synapses. A solo ship should be "below the radar"; almost literally. DSCN hits all ships regardless of proximity/sig, etc. Might be more realistic to have both DSCN and probing able to locate ship that are blobbed in close proximity to each other more easily than a solo ship (especially one that is small). RL radar behaves in this manner, where individual signatures merge if objects are close together, yet small, faster targets do not resolve well (if at all). This is actually just the physics of signal-based radar/ladar/whatever...should aply in EvE too.
Feedback, extension, or flaming of concept welcome.
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Goose99
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Posted - 2010.12.28 00:02:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Ranger 1
Originally by: Goose99
Originally by: Ranger 1
Originally by: Goose99 Right now, the "pwn mobile" would be HAC/T3, not BS. No one uses BS anymore because they overgimped it. CCP needs to roll back some, but not all of the gimp so it's actually balanced. When everyone uses something (HAC), that's a good indication it's OP, when no one use something (BS), it's gimped. Once there's a nice mix, it's a sign that you've achieved balance.
... because no one uses Battleships in PVP anymore.
Yep. Not even in larger gangs post-dominion, and definitely not solo. They're still around as baits, but that's a minor role and not direct pvp.
I'm not saying that more options for players wanting to make a difference in PVP situations solo is "necessarily" a bad thing.
However if you think that battleships are no longer used in fleet combat or by solo specialists... you need to get out more.
Trust me, I'd love to meet some of "BS solo specialists." I've certainly seem BS around, unfortunately for me they always turn out to be baits the last few years.
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Ephemeron
Solitairian Society
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Posted - 2010.12.28 00:08:00 -
[49]
I used to be a solo BS specialist, at least if you count dual boxing as solo. My main char would typically be a Dominix while my 2nd char would be in something light for fast tackle.
Nowadays, I just don't consider it the optimal tactic. If I want to go cheap, I'd bring a BC. If I want to go expensive, I'll get a t3. Roaming bs just attracts too much attention, people will blob and chase you down. Being in either BC or T3 will get you more kills over time, since people would be more willing to engage and not chase you down as much.
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Borun Tal
Minmatar Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2010.12.28 00:15:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Mina Hiragi
Originally by: hired goon Before we continue can someone please explain to me why you would subscribe to a 'Massively Multiplayer' game, then complain on said game's forums there is a lack of solo-play?
Because massively multiplayer means nothing more than, "Several metric arse loads of players". It does not inherently mean, "Everyone split into two teams, guys!"
Thank you. I'm getting so f'in sick of hearing that tired old "but it's a massively multiplayer" excuse to insisting people play one way and not play their own game.
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Major Sackrash
Odium Certa
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Posted - 2010.12.28 00:16:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Ephemeron I used to be a solo BS specialist, at least if you count dual boxing as solo.
Hmmm let me think about that for 1 second........
Nope, that's not solo, I mean by definition that's not solo, unless of course you make up your own definitions. This is not a signature. Actually I lied, it is. Haha trolled. |
Kattshiro
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.12.28 00:18:00 -
[52]
Does this go the same for single player only games? "Why can't I play with more people?" People to a certain extent need to understand that other people are involved in their game or will be involved with "their" game at some point.
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Ephemeron
Solitairian Society
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Posted - 2010.12.28 00:23:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Major Sackrash
Originally by: Ephemeron I used to be a solo BS specialist, at least if you count dual boxing as solo.
Hmmm let me think about that for 1 second........
Nope, that's not solo, I mean by definition that's not solo, unless of course you make up your own definitions.
Solo can mean 1 player, not 1 character. But hey, it's not a big deal to me, I won't argue
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Major Sackrash
Odium Certa
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Posted - 2010.12.28 00:28:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Ephemeron
Originally by: Major Sackrash
Originally by: Ephemeron I used to be a solo BS specialist, at least if you count dual boxing as solo.
Hmmm let me think about that for 1 second........
Nope, that's not solo, I mean by definition that's not solo, unless of course you make up your own definitions.
Solo can mean 1 player, not 1 character. But hey, it's not a big deal to me, I won't argue
It's not solo mmmkay. There sorted. This is not a signature. Actually I lied, it is. Haha trolled. |
Birdman Ravo
Legion of The Birds
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Posted - 2010.12.28 00:34:00 -
[55]
Edited by: Birdman Ravo on 28/12/2010 00:35:20 I wholehearted support AOE weaponry as well as neut RR countermeasures to support solo PVP.
Originally by: thisisnotright (The EVE community took a serious hit when Star Wars Galaxy died and thousand of Americans started to migrate from it as well as World of warcraft)
The Eve community was also a better place before you posted, and an even better place than that before you subscribed. Coincidence?
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Space Pinata
Amarr Discount Napkin Industries
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Posted - 2010.12.28 00:48:00 -
[56]
Quote: It does make sense for there to be power in numbers, but it should be within reason. On the small and large scales things are too skewed in favor of numbers.
This, and all other posts about numbers, are inherently flawed.
Here's why.
Math. Math is why.
"But I want numbers to be less of an advantage!"... sorry, it's mathematically impossible.
You bring 5 guys, they bring 10. Unless their ships are only half as strong as yours (factoring pilot intelligence, fitting, ship hull, etc) or worse, they have an advantage.
You can't just say 'lower someones stats for being in a big corp!' or something like that.
EVERY player has access to the same ships, weapons, etc. This is a fundamental necessity to make the game fair. You may not have the skills or ISK to field them all yet, but if you're willing to invest, they're available to you.
This goes for your enemies, too. So, fundamentally...
No player can -really- be stronger than another. Therefore, the blob wins, no matter how hardcore you think you are, if you fight it directly!
Guerilla warfare exists for a reason. You never see the small band of rebels charging out across an open field to meet the big nation they're up against. They come by surprise, they use stealth, they retreat back into the shadows when countered.
It's a strategy that's existed since ancient rome. If you have less guys, you harass the enemy relentlessly and give them no rest and also deny them a pitched engagement where they can destroy you.
If you can't manage the last part, maybe you should join the blob.
Or you could just ask CCP to make you arbitrarily stronger with no thought or consideration for -how- it's possible to make 5 players as strong as ten players.
1=/=5 2=/=3 5=/=10
Understand?
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Kattshiro
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.12.28 00:51:00 -
[57]
Well there's always the Fabian strategy.
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Ephemeron
The Dirty Dozen
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Posted - 2010.12.28 00:55:00 -
[58]
Space Pinata, of course larger numbers > smaller numbers
But we can influence rate of increase of power vs number of ships. It can be linear, it can be quadratic, it can be cubic. Existence of RR makes the rate geometric.
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Goose99
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Posted - 2010.12.28 01:01:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Major Sackrash
Originally by: Ephemeron
Originally by: Major Sackrash
Originally by: Ephemeron I used to be a solo BS specialist, at least if you count dual boxing as solo.
Hmmm let me think about that for 1 second........
Nope, that's not solo, I mean by definition that's not solo, unless of course you make up your own definitions.
Solo can mean 1 player, not 1 character. But hey, it's not a big deal to me, I won't argue
It's not solo mmmkay. There sorted.
Who was the guy with multiple monitors and keyboards for 17 Ravens at once? Forgot his name...
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Space Pinata
Amarr Discount Napkin Industries
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Posted - 2010.12.28 01:15:00 -
[60]
Edited by: Space Pinata on 28/12/2010 01:16:20
Originally by: Ephemeron Space Pinata, of course larger numbers > smaller numbers
But we can influence rate of increase of power vs number of ships. It can be linear, it can be quadratic, it can be cubic. Existence of RR makes the rate geometric.
This is actually a good point.
It only really applies to battleships (since smaller fleets field logistics and not 1-2 RR on every ship), but it is an example where numbers are much stronger than their sum.
This is bad when the people using the tactic are larger. EX: 4 RRBS vs 3 RRBS is a huge advantage, whereas 4v3 would be.. at least interesting were they not throwing RR.
A good example of 'fair' numbers fights is Dreadnoughts. 10v20 the '20' will still lose at least 2 dreads because they're forced to local tank.
I'd hate to completely remote RR, but, maybe it should be moved only to specialized ships.
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Ephemeron
The Dirty Dozen
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Posted - 2010.12.28 01:24:00 -
[61]
It wouldn't be such a bad idea to put stacking penalty on RR, just like there's stacking penalty on all other buffs.
And it kinda makes sense from realistic point of view - you can't expect to repair a ship in space during combat at 10x rate just cause there are 10 mechanics. Certain things take time to move and repair no matter how many people are at it. As for shield buffs, wouldn't the target ship's shield generators overload and burst into flame if they were getting too much energy pumped into them?
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Alice Celadon
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Posted - 2010.12.28 01:34:00 -
[62]
Just in case someone is reading this thread and actually wants to solo pvp ... let me assure you it is not only possible, but rewarding and fun to learn to solo pvp in null sec.
I'm not going to tell you how to do it, but I'm going to give you the tools to figure it out.
Want to spend next to nothing soloing in BCs? Hera Darkthorn is probably the best in game right now at that. http://podla.griefwatch.net/?p=pilot&pilot=Hera%20Darkthorn
Interested in small faction/pimp ship soloing? Look at these guys. http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/combat_record.php?type=alliance&name=DarkSide. http://www.hydra.eve-kill.net/
Want to do solo dic camping? Study this. https://www.pandemic-legion.com/killboard/index.php
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Infinity Ziona
Minmatar Cloakers
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Posted - 2010.12.28 01:35:00 -
[63]
Edited by: Infinity Ziona on 28/12/2010 01:37:51
Originally by: Space Pinata
Quote: It does make sense for there to be power in numbers, but it should be within reason. On the small and large scales things are too skewed in favor of numbers.
This, and all other posts about numbers, are inherently flawed.
Here's why.
Math. Math is why.
"But I want numbers to be less of an advantage!"... sorry, it's mathematically impossible.
You bring 5 guys, they bring 10. Unless their ships are only half as strong as yours (factoring pilot intelligence, fitting, ship hull, etc) or worse, they have an advantage.
You can't just say 'lower someones stats for being in a big corp!' or something like that.
EVERY player has access to the same ships, weapons, etc. This is a fundamental necessity to make the game fair. You may not have the skills or ISK to field them all yet, but if you're willing to invest, they're available to you.
This goes for your enemies, too. So, fundamentally...
No player can -really- be stronger than another. Therefore, the blob wins, no matter how hardcore you think you are, if you fight it directly!
Guerilla warfare exists for a reason. You never see the small band of rebels charging out across an open field to meet the big nation they're up against. They come by surprise, they use stealth, they retreat back into the shadows when countered.
It's a strategy that's existed since ancient rome. If you have less guys, you harass the enemy relentlessly and give them no rest and also deny them a pitched engagement where they can destroy you.
If you can't manage the last part, maybe you should join the blob.
Or you could just ask CCP to make you arbitrarily stronger with no thought or consideration for -how- it's possible to make 5 players as strong as ten players.
1=/=5 2=/=3 5=/=10
Understand?
This post is ironic and not insulting you at all by saying that.
Numbers have a natural inherent power. If you have 1 person with 1000 HP and 100 DPS vs 5 of the same, then you are fighting 5000 HP and 500 dps and automatically lose (but might take one out first). Thats well and good and the way things ought to be.
However, the Developers changed this natural law to add an additional penalty, not to the bigger gang but to the smaller one. Now the 5 get a 30% boost while the single player gets 0% boost.
Additionally the 5 get to eliminate the solo players dps entirely by being able to utilize shared repair modules and transfer energy between themselves. Even if the player was foolish enough to attempt to fight the 5, his damage output would be unable to break any tank of the opposition due to the remote repping, even if the ship he was firing on was seriously inferior to his own. (You won't take one out before you die).
Thats the way EvE is designed now, deliberately, to eliminate any form of solo pvp and force people to join gangs.
As for solopwnmobiles, while the battleship is not one, the super carrier is. It takes around a minimum of 20 players, with at least 3 hictors, RR's and know how to have a chance to kill a single pilot in one.
EvE is not "fixable" as it relates to solo play. Its gone too far into forcing a play style that the developers like and enjoy at the expense of other forms of play and I don't think there's any turning back the clock. --------------------------------------------- Hate Bots / RMT? Do something worthwhile and good for EvE and cause tears and anguish for others, while doing absolutely nothing yourself! Join up. |
Space Pinata
Amarr Discount Napkin Industries
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Posted - 2010.12.28 02:15:00 -
[64]
Well, those are good points.
Solo is at a huge disadvantage, moreso than the stacking of DPS/EHP. It's really a double whammy.
Solo PVPers can still make a difference, though. See all the afk-cloaker whines.
A good group of skirmishers (or a few isolated soloists) can shut down a whole constellation of sov space.
They can't take sov, but they can throw a wrench in the works and severely hinder income levels and hurt morale.
It's a more subtle effect than, say, taking an outpost, but to say it's not an effect would be wrong.
An individual pilot skirmishing heavily in a system is a bigger asset than the same pilot as a rank and file blob member. Of course, if the whiners get their cloak nerf, this too will be gone... |
Ephemeron
The Dirty Dozen
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Posted - 2010.12.28 02:30:00 -
[65]
just want to point out that battleship used to be very effective at solo before The Great Nano Nerf.
Hell, there were quite a few people going solo to 0.0 with Machariels - 1.5 billion ships completely unescorted. Nowadays if you see a Mach you know he's well covered with friendly blob.
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Ephemeron
The Dirty Dozen
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Posted - 2010.12.28 02:36:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Space Pinata Solo is at a huge disadvantage, moreso than the stacking of DPS/EHP. It's really a double whammy.
Solo PVPers can still make a difference, though. See all the afk-cloaker whines.
A good group of skirmishers (or a few isolated soloists) can shut down a whole constellation of sov space.
They can't take sov, but they can throw a wrench in the works and severely hinder income levels and hurt morale.
It's a more subtle effect than, say, taking an outpost, but to say it's not an effect would be wrong.
An individual pilot skirmishing heavily in a system is a bigger asset than the same pilot as a rank and file blob member. Of course, if the whiners get their cloak nerf, this too will be gone...
One of the problems with solo PvP is that it has near 0 possibility to impact alliance dynamics. If you believe you can make a difference, you are sadly mistaken.
In the old days, alliance people used to haul important goodies in freighters and hauling using 0.0 star gates. It used to be when important things needed to be hauled, alliance to organize escort operations. It was possible for a solo PvPer to nab some unprepared alliance hauler and really hurt them.
Nowadays, all important stuff is hauled via jump bridges and cyno equipped carriers and jump freighters, that go start from POS to 0.4 station with strait warp to high sec. Only blobs can have a chance at killing one of these now.
Even without the haulers, most 0.0 alliance people use jump bridges, thus significantly reducing the potential target list for solo roamers.
Jump bridges also allow alliance blobs to easier intercept / catch up with anyone who wanders into their territory, as they usually have scouts reporting all unfriendlies thru the choke points.
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Space Pinata
Amarr Discount Napkin Industries
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Posted - 2010.12.28 02:57:00 -
[67]
You can make a difference, but you can't really cripple them.
The rare freighter kill still happens, but it's too much of an anomaly to be considered a serious chance.
I'm not sure about solo, but on 0.0 merc contracts we'd get to the point where the locals had abandoned an entire constellation. Despite having 3-4 people online we could sit outside their station. Traffic had come to a halt due to a small group of PVPers.
The damages were in excess of 40 billion that week.
Now, solo, you can't make so much of an impact, but you -can- shut down an entire ratting system (or at least make it very hard to turn a profit in.)
This won't single-handedly bring the alliance to it's knees, but it will frustrate and demoralize the members, while denying them more ships for the blob, and denying the alliance itself taxable income.
In other words..
You can't really hurt the leadership and their gigantic wallet so much as you can hurt the individual members which they rely on to fight for them. Unless alliances have started supplying free/cheap ships to their members, denying the members isk is denying the alliance fleets pvpers. The more income you deny, the more you starve them.
It can't be a sudden, devestating event, but rather a slow sort of handicap. Sabotage, rather than outright destruction. |
thisisnotright
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Posted - 2010.12.28 07:39:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Infinity Ziona
Numbers have a natural inherent power. If you have 1 person with 1000 HP and 100 DPS vs 5 of the same, then you are fighting 5000 HP and 500 dps and automatically lose (but might take one out first). Thats well and good and the way things ought to be.
However, the Developers changed this natural law to add an additional penalty, not to the bigger gang but to the smaller one. Now the 5 get a 30% boost while the single player gets 0% boost.
Yes. You nail it fairly well. When creating the OP I was not arguing for a single ship being able to defeat more HP or DPS, I was objecting to the development of EVE over the last years. Ever since the introduction of alliances this game has been focused on blobs and rewarded blob warfare. Blobs are boring as hell and it requires no skill what so ever. They even introduced the 'allign to' feature because obviously there were so many neckbeards unable to allign to objects when they were sitting in safespots with their buddies waiting to blob a single cruiser. The hitpoint buff and damage nerf was supposed to make fights last longer, an argument I'm unable to understand how they came up with.
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baltec1
Antares Shipyards Phalanx Alliance
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Posted - 2010.12.28 08:35:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Iraherag
Originally by: baltec1
I still use BS in small fast gangs
urdoinitrong, yes?
My gang also trolled me right up untill everyone died but me because I aligned faster than all the BC
The next day I managed to chase down a cruiser
Battleships are bonkers.
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mkmin
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Posted - 2010.12.28 09:18:00 -
[70]
I'm confused... what does this guy want? Remove fleets? Make BSes with titan stats? To make incendiary statements? To be elected EVE-Jebus? Please tell us! How may we serve you?!? (<--note by the amount of punctuation I used you can clearly tell I must be approaching insanity by my desire to serve make a rambling bum happy)
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cpu939
Gallente The 5th Freedom Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2010.12.28 09:23:00 -
[71]
Originally by: thisisnotright Prime time on Saturdays has more than 2000 players like it once had, its 500000 players now.
500'000 on a Saturday night did I miss the 80k 90k 100k and so on, online.
eve like all other mmo will reward teamwork and lets be honest with the rl economics of people spending less ccp need to keep the isk incoming make the most people happy as you can.
let be honest solo was given a boost since your solo battleship nerf, t3 cruisers bubbles any problem no warp cloaked yes
look at eve-kills I looked only the frist six pages and there are a few high,low and null sec solo kills Signature not EVE Related. - Adida |
Marlona Sky
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2010.12.28 09:31:00 -
[72]
Originally by: De'Veldrin
Originally by: thisisnotright (The EVE community took a serious hit when Star Wars Galaxy died and thousand of Americans started to migrate from it as well as World of warcraft)
Speaking as an American who has never played either of those two games, **** you.
Also, the quote is
Quote:
The carrier was never meant to be an OMGWTF mission running PWNMobile.
If you're going to ***** about Americans, at least apply the stealth whine layer correctly, moron.
Don't mind him. He is still bitter about that whole tea thing we did back in Boston.
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Halcyon Ingenium
Caldari Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse Sanctuary Pact
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Posted - 2010.12.28 09:48:00 -
[73]
Read whole first page. 5/10
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Aloe Cloveris
The Greater Goon
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Posted - 2010.12.28 10:48:00 -
[74]
A battleship hull costs as much as 20 cruisers, thus it should destroy everything on grid instantly oh wait that's mothership logic.
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Bollox Reader
Farkistan GED Academy
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Posted - 2010.12.28 13:19:00 -
[75]
Even back in beta the power of the group over the individual seemed to be the primary lesson. Everything I read back them from CCP stressed the importance of teamwork.
I've dabbled in Eve off and on since then and it hasn't changed. Eve's always been about the corporation, about the group. Yeah, solo play has always been possible and some people (including myself) indulge in it, but that's never been the primary focus of the game. It's the road less traveled for the oddball misfit or the guy who really wants a challenge (except for missions or solo mining in high sec), but it has always excluded one from certain aspects of the game. CCP emphasized that from the beginning.
Just as corporate drones sacrifice individualism for the benefits of corporate life, so to does the rugged individualist give up the ability to compete with the larger corporations.
And I see no reason why a solo player should be able to even make a dent in a thousand pilot alliance. They put in all the time and resources necessary to claim the space, to develop those jump bridges and to maintain the logistical network, etc. It would literally be pointless if some solo artist could come in and do a lot of damage to the organization.
Yes, as Eve's gotten more crowded and highly specialized the opportunities for soloists have shrunk. And it's going to continue to do so. Just as in the real world, where a tendency toward centralization is the main theme of human progress. And there are a lot of people who resent it in real life. But as the role of the network increases (both in Eve and in real life) the role of the individual decreases.
Let's take the example of BoB. I remember when they were the alliance created to destroy alliances and remove them from space. They quickly became the first real feudal lords in Eve, becoming the thing they started fighting against. Rather than increasing chaos, they created a stronger structure as infrastructure permitted. This lessened the ability of others to truly operate independently.
This can be seen in real life in the cycle of small start-ups--> successful corporations--> monolithic structures capable of market manipulation and anticompetitive practices. One day it's just a couple guys sitting around talking, and twenty years later you have a government lawsuit against you for being too dominant and stifling innovation.
This is something that has to do more with people being people than it does with a design flaw in the framework either in Eve or in real life. Let's face it, if we're allowed to create vast networks capable of dominating the landscape and limiting the opportunities of potential competitors, we will. Any system that permits concepts such as sovereignty will, eventually, drive out independents. And the game had the concept long before it had the game mechanic.
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Grimpak
Gallente The Whitehound Corporation Hounds of Anarchy
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Posted - 2010.12.28 13:30:00 -
[76]
Edited by: Grimpak on 28/12/2010 13:30:57
Originally by: Opertone
Originally by: Professor Tarantula Edited by: Professor Tarantula on 27/12/2010 22:53:37
Originally by: Kattshiro Blobbing is something CCP can't really control (or measures to do so would violate the sandbox mentality)
Their name is Crowd Control Productions, so if they can't that would be a shame.
And it wouldn't violate the mythical 'sandbox' to have something like better AOE bombs which could be used effectively against clusters of ships from range. It's the type of thing that exists in real life, and keeps troops from bunching up. Wouldn't have to be ridiculously devastating damage, just enough to give a disadvantage to groups. Maybe make the power multiply for however many ships it damages or something.
I tend to think if we really were this far in the future we'd have developed all kinds of crazy supernova bombs, but it seems to be one of the areas of weapon development which has been overlooked in favor of maintaining the status quo in 0.0.
you speak the truth... AOE damage controls the crowd... CCP needs to introduce AOE ECM weapons and AOE shockwave weapons... just like smart bombs, but take serious penalties to capacitor and recharge rate.
yes something like a Remote ECM burst or some sort of doomsday device that you can fi- oh wait... ---
Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |
Tekumze Wolf
Minmatar Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2010.12.28 14:28:00 -
[77]
Edited by: Tekumze Wolf on 28/12/2010 14:31:24 AOE weapons don't do squat for crowd control. AOE is an attempt to disperse a crowd. It doesn't diminish the blob it just makes for pretty pictures when they all go boom. At the same time you need a blob to kill some ships so whatever they do they are shooting themselves in the foot.
IMO What eve needs is more space. Influx of new people, game changes (jump bridges, jump freighters) and stuff players do themselves (stations in every second system in 0.0) made the EVE universe feel crowded and small.
It needs to become what space was. A vast area of nothing with some bright spots in them. There need to be areas that are hard to reach which automatically means there will be less people there and harder to reach for the blobs (due to logistics).
To put it in a few simple points
1) Increase system count by doubling the current 0.0 system count. 2) Attempts to concentrate people in smaller areas with one of the following suggestions - Use system wide or even constellation wide with anomalies that prevent building stations and/or jump bridges. - Make Stations use some sort of maintenance. If they are not maintained they fall in disrepair. You can still dock but station service don't work until maintenance is provided AND extra stuff for repairing stations service (the more you provide the faster they are repaired).
What this would achieve is - make it hard for a blob to reach all over EVE map for insta-defense making it harder to defend ones land the larger you are (no need for artificial costs being payed for sov) - An attack WILL cut into someones land before they can muster sufficient defense from father away and the larger an empire is the more spread the people will be - It makes for a more fluid space ownership since less insta defense requires less offense to actually make it count. This opens a possibility of multipronged attacks which is pointless now since the same blob can reach most places. - more empty space gives more room for smaller groups to move around without fear of blob camps every 2 systems. - smaller blobs or at least less frequent blobs (since they would be harder to achieve logistically) mean less lag for fights. - longer distances between populated areas mean less fear of hot dropping every time you attempt to use a carrier.
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Anubis Xian
Reavers
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Posted - 2010.12.28 14:46:00 -
[78]
There are solopwnmobiles... they are called Legion, Loki, Proteus, and Tengu.
Originally by: CCP Oveur The client handles no logic, it is simply a dumb terminal.
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Syn Callibri
Minmatar 21st Eridani Lighthorse Broken Chains Alliance
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Posted - 2010.12.28 15:06:00 -
[79]
Edited by: Syn Callibri on 28/12/2010 15:06:32
Originally by: thisisnotright Edited by: thisisnotright on 27/12/2010 17:54:18 (The EVE community took a serious hit when Star Wars Galaxy died and thousand of Americans started to migrate from it as well as World of warcraft)
As an american that has never played either of those games...
1) Mmmmm...salty troll tears. 2) Apply anti-american whine stealth layer more liberally. 3) *****ing about solo-play in a MMORPG/PVP/PVE/Etc...is whine-fail. 4) Poast with your main...chicken. 5) 0/10
Commander Tac-Ops |
Drakarin
Gallente Absentia Libertas Solus
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Posted - 2010.12.28 15:30:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Bollox Reader Even back in beta the power of the group over the individual seemed to be the primary lesson. Everything I read back them from CCP stressed the importance of teamwork.
I've dabbled in Eve off and on since then and it hasn't changed. Eve's always been about the corporation, about the group. Yeah, solo play has always been possible and some people (including myself) indulge in it, but that's never been the primary focus of the game. It's the road less traveled for the oddball misfit or the guy who really wants a challenge (except for missions or solo mining in high sec), but it has always excluded one from certain aspects of the game. CCP emphasized that from the beginning.
Just as corporate drones sacrifice individualism for the benefits of corporate life, so to does the rugged individualist give up the ability to compete with the larger corporations.
And I see no reason why a solo player should be able to even make a dent in a thousand pilot alliance. They put in all the time and resources necessary to claim the space, to develop those jump bridges and to maintain the logistical network, etc. It would literally be pointless if some solo artist could come in and do a lot of damage to the organization.
Yes, as Eve's gotten more crowded and highly specialized the opportunities for soloists have shrunk. And it's going to continue to do so. Just as in the real world, where a tendency toward centralization is the main theme of human progress. And there are a lot of people who resent it in real life. But as the role of the network increases (both in Eve and in real life) the role of the individual decreases.
Let's take the example of BoB. I remember when they were the alliance created to destroy alliances and remove them from space. They quickly became the first real feudal lords in Eve, becoming the thing they started fighting against. Rather than increasing chaos, they created a stronger structure as infrastructure permitted. This lessened the ability of others to truly operate independently.
This can be seen in real life in the cycle of small start-ups--> successful corporations--> monolithic structures capable of market manipulation and anticompetitive practices. One day it's just a couple guys sitting around talking, and twenty years later you have a government lawsuit against you for being too dominant and stifling innovation.
This is something that has to do more with people being people than it does with a design flaw in the framework either in Eve or in real life. Let's face it, if we're allowed to create vast networks capable of dominating the landscape and limiting the opportunities of potential competitors, we will. Any system that permits concepts such as sovereignty will, eventually, drive out independents. And the game had the concept long before it had the game mechanic.
Perhaps I'm extremely bitter and pessimistic, but that was a very depressing read. You're absolutely right, but that doesn't make me happy at all. Why on earth would anyone want to make a game based on real life corporate dynamics? Business in real life is about as dull as it can possibly get. Well, maybe staring at a wall waiting for paint to dry is a bit more mundane, but hell, probably not.
Obviously grouping up should be possible and rewarding, but there's plenty of ways to give solo players some power and at least create a few doors for them to venture into. As it stands, you can try it and if you get really lucky you may even win a few battles, but it does all of nothing against even just one individual's assets.
The first step is to add a lot more space to space. And I do mean a lot. This game is huge, lets make it gargantuan. Add in 50,000 + null sec systems, and a bunch more low sec space. As well, separate each of the four empire faction's systems by at least 10 jumps through low sec, forcing people to transport goods across it.
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Drakarin
Gallente Absentia Libertas Solus
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Posted - 2010.12.28 15:35:00 -
[81]
Continued here, ran out of space above..
I'd even go as far as to suggest that certain ores be region specific. Low sec would play host to all types, the rare ones included, high sec empire space would play host to the more common minerals, but each empire faction would only get a select few types. Meaning transport and trade would get a HUGE boost, as well as pirating. Activity in low security space between empire systems would increase because it would have no choice. You'd force the economy to adapt, the players will too. Perhaps changing the salvage loot tables too, to only reflect that of the specific empire faction. Again, creating a dynamic link between all empire factions, without any leeway room, absolutely necessitates that people cross through the dangerous space. Protection corporations emerge. Low sec mining gets a boost, etc...
Now with all of those null sec systems added, the solo player has fresh meat in low sec, and can go out and explore/expand in completely uncharted space.
While you're add this, remove insurance completely and drop the hyperinformation plate (star map), at least remove the ability to see direct activity in the system, so you can't tell if someone has been there.
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thisisnotright
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Posted - 2010.12.28 15:36:00 -
[82]
Edited by: thisisnotright on 28/12/2010 15:37:34
Originally by: Bollox Reader Even back in beta the power of the group over the individual seemed to be the primary lesson. Everything I read back them from CCP stressed the importance of teamwork.
Of course teamwork is important and should be important. But why should teamwork = 1000 people? Whatever happened to the 3 and 5 man teams? Or just 10 man teams for that matter.
Quote:
I've dabbled in Eve off and on since then and it hasn't changed. Eve's always been about the corporation, about the group. Yeah, solo play has always been possible and some people (including myself) indulge in it, but that's never been the primary focus of the game.
same here, only you are slightly wrong. EVE has changed a lot. You used to be able to get a small gang and head into hostile space, bu today thats not possible. Where are the 5 man frigate gang taking out a single battleship? PVP used to be fun as ****, today its all bait and gank.
Quote:
Just as corporate drones sacrifice individualism for the benefits of corporate life, so to does the rugged individualist give up the ability to compete with the larger corporations.
There should be a middle ground. I think there was a few years back.
Quote:
And I see no reason why a solo player should be able to even make a dent in a thousand pilot alliance.
They shouldnt. because that would just be silly.
Quote:
Let's take the example of BoB. I remember when they were the alliance created to destroy alliances and remove them from space. They quickly became the first real feudal lords in Eve, becoming the thing they started fighting against. Rather than increasing chaos, they created a stronger structure as infrastructure permitted. This lessened the ability of others to truly operate independently.
You mean the alliance with corrupted CCP employees handing out free ISK?
Originally by: Syn Callibri
As an american that has never played either of those games...
As an European, the fact that you are American really matters.... no seriously.
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De'Veldrin
Minmatar Green-Core The Obsidian Legion
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Posted - 2010.12.28 17:27:00 -
[83]
Originally by: thisisnotright
Originally by: Syn Callibri
As an american that has never played either of those games...
As an European, the fact that you are American really matters.... no seriously.
You're right, it doesn't. Which makes me ask why you felt the need to bring it up in your OP?
I mean, since it doesn't matter to you so much? hmm? --Vel
I'm more of a care-badger. |
Syn Callibri
Minmatar 21st Eridani Lighthorse Broken Chains Alliance
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Posted - 2010.12.28 17:37:00 -
[84]
Edited by: Syn Callibri on 28/12/2010 17:37:00
Originally by: thisisnotright
Originally by: Syn Callibri
As an american that has never played either of those games...
As an European, the fact that you are American really matters.... no seriously.
Really...and you're who again?
Commander Tac-Ops |
Gogela
Freeport Exploration
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Posted - 2010.12.28 17:44:00 -
[85]
Originally by: Morrn If you arent able to get down to buisness without being in an alliance, then you broke something.
Really... just this ^
------------------------------------
"A hungry man will tell you anything if you give him a cookie." |
Ranger 1
Amarr Dynaverse Corporation Sodalitas XX
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Posted - 2010.12.28 18:00:00 -
[86]
Originally by: Space Pinata You can make a difference, but you can't really cripple them.
The rare freighter kill still happens, but it's too much of an anomaly to be considered a serious chance.
I'm not sure about solo, but on 0.0 merc contracts we'd get to the point where the locals had abandoned an entire constellation. Despite having 3-4 people online we could sit outside their station. Traffic had come to a halt due to a small group of PVPers.
The damages were in excess of 40 billion that week.
Now, solo, you can't make so much of an impact, but you -can- shut down an entire ratting system (or at least make it very hard to turn a profit in.)
This won't single-handedly bring the alliance to it's knees, but it will frustrate and demoralize the members, while denying them more ships for the blob, and denying the alliance itself taxable income.
In other words..
You can't really hurt the leadership and their gigantic wallet so much as you can hurt the individual members which they rely on to fight for them. Unless alliances have started supplying free/cheap ships to their members, denying the members isk is denying the alliance fleets pvpers. The more income you deny, the more you starve them.
It can't be a sudden, devestating event, but rather a slow sort of handicap. Sabotage, rather than outright destruction.
Mostly correct, but you are overlooking one of the most damaging effects of the solo lurker.
It's not the possibility of nailing that hauler full of BPO's, it's not even directly hurting alliance members wallets because they don't want to go out and rat (although it is related to the latter).
Once you have the local population to nervous to go out and rat/mine/etc. you begin to seriously impact the alliance controlling the area because their indices start dropping rapidly. They are still shelling out the high rent, but with the indices dropping the number of spawns/belts/etc. drops off rapidly and takes some time to build back up.
Not only is the population adversely affected financially (and their morale as well) but alliance leadership starts feeling the crunch every time they shell out isk for sov upkeep and get nothing in return for it.
This has a much larger impact than the detrimental effect on a few ratter/miner wallets.
===== If you go to Za'Ha'Dum I will gank you. |
Crushall
Caldari The Nintendo Generation Snatch Victory
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Posted - 2010.12.28 18:22:00 -
[87]
Boost it you tossers!
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thisisnotright
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Posted - 2010.12.28 18:25:00 -
[88]
Originally by: Syn Callibri Edited by: Syn Callibri on 28/12/2010 17:37:00
Originally by: thisisnotright
Originally by: Syn Callibri
As an american that has never played either of those games...
As an European, the fact that you are American really matters.... no seriously.
Really...and you're who again?
I'm pretty much the gossip girl of the internet. Everyone knows me and everyone reads my blog. People admire me and worship me.
Now who are you again? Oh you must be some random alliance peasant
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Zhim'Fufu
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Posted - 2010.12.28 18:30:00 -
[89]
Brilliant move on op's part to include the wow/american comment.
Otherwise this would have died at page one.
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Kattshiro
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.12.28 18:35:00 -
[90]
I think it's natural evolution that groups became larger and larger. I mean people wanted this game to grow and have a larger player base...then become astonished that it actually has.
Furthermore I find it ironic that people want small group pvp, and then get mad at the notion of an "official" arena which would make such a thing possible. It's also quite odd that people dont want a blob, but yet want a solopwnmobile that would require a blob to take it down...
I think to enable smaller groups you need to make it much easier to find people traveling in over groups of 10, and much harder to probe down solo or groups less than 10. Perhaps also require multiple points that need to be attacked simultaneously to achieve an object or objects that take less people overall. Perhaps also putting a limit to how many people overall can be docked (Or make a station home) at one time.
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Syn Callibri
Minmatar 21st Eridani Lighthorse Broken Chains Alliance
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Posted - 2010.12.28 18:45:00 -
[91]
Originally by: thisisnotright
I'm pretty much the gossip girl of the internet. Everyone knows me and everyone reads my blog. People admire me and worship me.
Now who are you again? Oh you must be some random alliance peasant
/puts trolling euro-snob on ignore and moves on.
Commander Tac-Ops |
Misstress Iteron
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Posted - 2010.12.28 18:55:00 -
[92]
Every MMO has its blobs, its just eve has bigger ones. Rather than demand CCP find an impossible fix people need to just accept it and adapt.
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De'Veldrin
Minmatar Green-Core The Obsidian Legion
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Posted - 2010.12.28 18:55:00 -
[93]
Originally by: Syn Callibri
Originally by: thisisnotright
I'm pretty much the gossip girl of the internet. Everyone knows me and everyone reads my blog. People admire me and worship me.
Now who are you again? Oh you must be some random alliance peasant
/puts trolling euro-snob on ignore and moves on.
You missed a perfect snipe there, dear. --Vel
I'm more of a care-badger. |
Rented
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Posted - 2010.12.28 18:59:00 -
[94]
Does this post make me look fat?
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Zhim'Fufu
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Posted - 2010.12.28 19:00:00 -
[95]
Originally by: Rented Does this post make me look fat?
No, but your avatar does.
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De'Veldrin
Minmatar Green-Core The Obsidian Legion
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Posted - 2010.12.28 19:03:00 -
[96]
Originally by: Zhim'Fufu
Originally by: Rented Does this post make me look fat?
No, but your avatar does.
He's not overweight. He's undertall. --Vel
I'm more of a care-badger. |
Misstress Iteron
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Posted - 2010.12.28 19:18:00 -
[97]
Originally by: thisisnotright
Quote: euro-snob
If Euro-snob means educated, electric car driving, secular, pro gay, pro choice, then yes you are correct. I am such a snob.
I laugh at your electric car which suffers in the cold cold winter.
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Ephemeron
The Dirty Dozen
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Posted - 2010.12.28 19:21:00 -
[98]
Quote: Every MMO has its blobs, its just eve has bigger ones. Rather than demand CCP find an impossible fix people need to just accept it and adapt.
It WAS possible before The Great Nano Nerf. Make no mistake about that. We aren't talking about theory here, this is a historic fact.
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CCP Zymurgist
Gallente C C P
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Posted - 2010.12.28 19:23:00 -
[99]
Thread cleaned of trolling comments, please keep on topic.
Zymurgist Community Representative CCP Hf, EVE Online Contact Us |
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Misstress Iteron
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Posted - 2010.12.28 19:31:00 -
[100]
Originally by: Ephemeron
Quote: Every MMO has its blobs, its just eve has bigger ones. Rather than demand CCP find an impossible fix people need to just accept it and adapt.
It WAS possible before The Great Nano Nerf. Make no mistake about that. We aren't talking about theory here, this is a historic fact.
I am also not theory baking. I have been going solo for months in one of the slowest ships in the game...
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Syn Callibri
Minmatar 21st Eridani Lighthorse Broken Chains Alliance
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Posted - 2010.12.28 19:35:00 -
[101]
Would that be a "battle-itheron" by chance?
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Bollox Reader
Farkistan GED Academy
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Posted - 2010.12.28 23:45:00 -
[102]
Originally by: Drakarin
Perhaps I'm extremely bitter and pessimistic, but that was a very depressing read. You're absolutely right, but that doesn't make me happy at all. Why on earth would anyone want to make a game based on real life corporate dynamics? Business in real life is about as dull as it can possibly get. Well, maybe staring at a wall waiting for paint to dry is a bit more mundane, but hell, probably not.
That wasn't the idea behind the game. It was intended to be a wonderland where everyone who wanted freedom to grief each other, could. It is, however, a natural result of a territorial sandbox game that has an ever-increasing population. After observing this game, and other territorial control games, that is the predominant issue. Eventually, the independents get squeezed out.
Quote:
Obviously grouping up should be possible and rewarding, but there's plenty of ways to give solo players some power and at least create a few doors for them to venture into. As it stands, you can try it and if you get really lucky you may even win a few battles, but it does all of nothing against even just one individual's assets.
And yet somehow the biggest reason people tell me they quit Eve was because of ongoing pvp losses. When their wallets ran out, they stopped playing. If their wallets run out, they're doing it wrong anyway, but there IS significant loss involved in Eve for the typical player. Some can wallet tank, others can't for whatever reason.
Quote:
The first step is to add a lot more space to space. And I do mean a lot. This game is huge, lets make it gargantuan. Add in 50,000 + null sec systems, and a bunch more low sec space. As well, separate each of the four empire faction's systems by at least 10 jumps through low sec, forcing people to transport goods across it.
I definitely agree with you there. I'm sure there are significant content challenges, since everything has to be seeded. But I recall stories going around in beta that they had actually generated twice as many systems as they'd released, and were holding half back for the future. I used to think that the devs said this themselves, but it's been quite a while since the beta forums were wiped out and all I have is my increasingly distant memory of those days. It was certainly something that I picked up on.
I think that w-space would provide the perfect opportunity to find more Eve Gate-type structures. After all, it would be odd for it to be a one-off. Perhaps the Sleepers could be the CONCORD of the "other-space" with their own NPC empires surrounded by a vast sea of 0.0 territory. CONCORD and the Sleepers reach an "understanding" that capsuleers, of course, are not beholden to hold to since they are, essentially, beyond the reach of any sovereignty.
There is plenty of room for such additions. They don't even have to be aliens, any more than the Jovians. Who knows what happened to the original humans?
As far as your bitterness and cynicism, I think it is merited. The game HAS changed. There is far more structure and far less room for the intrepid independent. And that is a true loss. I look at it as many thought of Frederick Turner's talks at the 1893 Chicago World's Fair when he pointed out the closing of the frontier. We still have people who resent that notion. It's natural. That's essentially what we have had in Eve, and it changes the rules for most people. Exceptional individuals can rise above it but not, by definition, the typical player.
It's human to create these structures, and it is also human to resent their existence. I choose to find a vicarious joy in what we as a player base have wrought, but I too feel twangs of regret for what has been lost.
My way of coping with it has been a series of accounts I've opened and closed over the years. I retrain myself with the tutorials and try to integrate myself into the new social structures without baggage from prior characters. I make it a new game.
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Typhis Deterious
Firebird Squadron Terra-Incognita
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Posted - 2010.12.29 00:43:00 -
[103]
This is because Vagas are solopwnmobiles...
_______________________________ R.I.P Trinity Nova
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Misstress Iteron
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Posted - 2010.12.29 08:32:00 -
[104]
Originally by: Syn Callibri Would that be a "battle-itheron" by chance?
However did you guess?
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Pan Crastus
Anti-Metagaming League
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Posted - 2010.12.29 11:24:00 -
[105]
The correct way to boost solo play is with bots nowdays! More accounts for CCP to earn money with. :-/
How to PVP: 1. buy ISK with GTCs, 2. fit cloak, learn aggro mechanics, 3. buy second account for metagaming
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Mortania
Minmatar Mining Manufacturing Missioning
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Posted - 2011.02.20 02:22:00 -
[106]
My brain got tired about halfway through the thread...
But, did anyone point out that "...battleships are not meant to be solopwnmobiles..." doesn't mean that you could solo back then and now you can't, but it was in relation to each class of ship having a role and it not being rock paper scissors where rock punches right through paper. At the time of that quote Battleships beat cruisers and frigates. It was the answer to all situations. Which was stupid and they were right to fix it. They made it so that frigates were fast and harder to hit with larger guns. It was the birth of the 30+km/s intys and life was good. EVE now pwns EVE then. ---
Destroying asteroids one at a time, to make the universe safer. |
ITTigerClawIK
Amarr Galactic Rangers Galactic-Rangers
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Posted - 2011.02.20 02:35:00 -
[107]
Originally by: thisisnotright Edited by: thisisnotright on 27/12/2010 17:54:18 rabble rabble rabble....
Boost soloplay CCP
massively MULTIPLAYER Online Role Play Game
That is all
Sig space reclaimed in the name of me -courtesy of Tiggy ([email protected]) |
Centri Sixx
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Posted - 2011.02.20 02:45:00 -
[108]
The point of a solo player isn't pwning, it's surviving and being free to do what you like in a game where most people need a fleet of thirty ships to go to the bathroom.
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True Sight
THORN Syndicate Controlled Chaos
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Posted - 2011.02.20 02:46:00 -
[109]
You're right!
I'm going to boost solo-play, by giving you a ship that will give you an edge!
oh crap.. that alliance went out and started flying a whole fleet of that new ship I made... --------------------------------------
True Sight President Foiritan Emissary --<<!SUPPORT DRONES!>>--
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Lamparski
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Posted - 2011.02.20 05:42:00 -
[110]
There is a Warpdrive podcast that celebrated the 5 year anniversary of Eve. A must listen to for all eve players. Linkage
This is a great episode and has interviews with the devs and the very first Eve players who helped change the game. I would like to believe that people who brought this game together really loved the thought of a truely complex but difficult and dangerous universe.
Im sure CCP investors are happy with the way it turned out, and a game of blobs is the norm and brings in the cash. Lets be honest, cold hard dollars do make life a bit easier.
Just listen to the podcast for a good history of the early days of Eve and why that version is so much better then what we have today. Ill never unsub, half way to 100m SP
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Kuronaga
The Drekla Consortium
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Posted - 2011.02.20 08:19:00 -
[111]
Solo players have options.
It's called get a Loki and rule the universe.
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Ranger 1
Amarr Paragon Fury Cascade Imminent
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Posted - 2011.02.20 08:33:00 -
[112]
Quote: the game is great in so many ways, but it lacks options people who care little of being a petty peasant in an alliance machine. EVe online once had options for such individuals, but the development over the last years has greatly decreased these options.
I have no issue with solo (or small gang) PVP receiving some attention... however I will point out that if you are in an alliance and end up as merely a "petty peasant" it is due to your own mindset and poor choices. ===== The world will not end in 2012, however there will be a serious nerf to Planetary Interaction. |
Richard Aiel
Caldari GloboTech Industries
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Posted - 2011.02.20 09:10:00 -
[113]
lol @ BSes not being solo pwnmobiles but Drakes are ----------------------------------------- If you dont learn from the past you are doomed to repeat it http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1469262&page=2#51 |
Val'Dore
Word Bearers of Chaos Word of Chaos Undivided
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Posted - 2011.02.20 09:48:00 -
[114]
There is nothing wrong with the 'solopwnmobile concept' in theory. The people against such things are also the ones who blob and just want the kills to remain easy.
~No matter what happens, somebody will find a way to take it too seriously.~ |
Val'Dore
Word Bearers of Chaos Word of Chaos Undivided
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Posted - 2011.02.20 09:55:00 -
[115]
Originally by: ITTigerClawIK
Originally by: thisisnotright Edited by: thisisnotright on 27/12/2010 17:54:18 rabble rabble rabble....
Boost soloplay CCP
massively MULTIPLAYER Online Role Play Game
That is all
******ed argument.
That is all.
~No matter what happens, somebody will find a way to take it too seriously.~ |
Lex Mirus
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Posted - 2011.02.20 09:56:00 -
[116]
I kinda don't know what to think of EVE now compared to EVE then. With insurance gone, I think battleships are only good for armor/shield tanking lvl 4 missions. But the solopwnmobile in EVE is the Hulk. I mean I see these things solo in empire all the time. I would like to see CCP make space larger... There used to be something exciting about 0.0 space. I remember feeling like I was exploring low sec, and 0.0. Now I don't think about it, because I know 0.0 is camped off by the megacorps. I kind of don't feel free to enjoy the game anymore in general.
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Cellia Dacella
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Posted - 2011.02.20 10:41:00 -
[117]
the existance of a solo pwn mobile would be fotm for us team players. cause I know me and my buddies would be like oh nice, a solo pwn mobile that's awsome sauce when flown in a fleet. The problem is not the lack of solo pwn mobiles. It is the simple pvp mechanics. Ships with no critical death chance i.e. % chance of a ship doing damage to other ships near it when it dies. and line of sight fighting when it comes to asteriods, stations, and other objects. I think the addition of those two things would bring alot more depth to eve pvp, and also open alot of opportunities for solo pvp.
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Eyup Mi'duck
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Posted - 2011.02.20 11:25:00 -
[118]
Originally by: Tekumze Wolf Edited by: Tekumze Wolf on 28/12/2010 14:31:24 IMO What eve needs is more space. Influx of new people, game changes (jump bridges, jump freighters) and stuff players do themselves (stations in every second system in 0.0) made the EVE universe feel crowded and small.
It needs to become what space was. A vast area of nothing with some bright spots in them. There need to be areas that are hard to reach which automatically means there will be less people there and harder to reach for the blobs (due to logistics).
THIS. The barriers to entry in the alliance business are so high as to make it impossible for new ventures. So the big old alliances, or their descendents, rule the game now and always will unless the mechanics change. Solo players, new players, even those who can get a substantial corp together, can only ever take part in the big game by joining the established powerbases, or resigning themselves to a completely different game in npc or empire space.
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Grog Barrel
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Posted - 2011.02.20 17:10:00 -
[119]
dominix,
only viable BS class ship as solopwnmobil. c/d?
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Istvaan Shogaatsu
Caldari Guiding Hand Social Club
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Posted - 2011.02.20 17:56:00 -
[120]
Originally by: thisisnotright I seem to recall that that was the actual quote, but I'm sure you will correct me if I'm wrong.
I never understood that statement, having played EVE since a time when battleships took many months to get in form of endless hours of mining and crap agent loot. Yes the game mechanics were pretty funny, and by today's standards it was broken, but it was endlessly better than it is today.
A battleship is not meant to be a solo pwnmobile? I guess that thought pattern comes from player A meeting player B and player A "pwning" player B just because hes in a battleship? Ok. This was during exodus if I remember correctly. What about player A meeting player B and pwning player B just because hes in an alliance? No no, I'm not arguing for a single player to be able to "pwn" a whole alliance. If you are not an anti-intellectual you will continue to read and reply later, if you are then you will be typing furiously right now. I can imagine it being in the lines of "l2p/whine/cry" or whatever.
The reasons you nerfed "solo pwnmobiles" are the same reasons you should now boost soloplay. The EVE universe in quite crowded, your game made it. Congratulations. Prime time on Saturdays has more than 2000 players like it once had, its 500000 players now.
the game is great in so many ways, but it lacks options people who care little of being a petty peasant in an alliance machine. EVe online once had options for such individuals, but the development over the last years has greatly decreased these options.
Boost soloplay CCP
Despite the fact that this post is probably a troll... I'll bite.
I've been feeling the same way, for a very long time.
Let me tell you about my early days in Eve. When I started out, battleships were still a rarity, and cruisers were the workhorse. Then... something magical happened. Interceptors came out.
They were a whole class above the current ships. They were superior, undeniably so. Interceptor gangs could tear apart cruiser fleets, and bring down battleships quickly in sufficient numbers. Relatively soon after, another t2 ship class entered New Eden - the HAC.
At this point, I FELT LIKE A BURNING GOD OF SLAUGHTER. My Zealot could tear a heavily tanked Megathron limb from limb in seconds. It was agile. It was deadly. It was a knife.
At this point in Eve Online, the lethality of an individual mattered.
It no longer matters. Solo PVP has become a rarity. Even in the rare 1v1 situation, my ships feel toothless. I have 115 million SP, and about as much to show for it as a 20m SP pilot who specialized. I just have more options, but all the options suck. They're boring.
The feeling of being a burning god of slaughter? Gone.
My urge to PVP? Gone along with it. PVP no longer matters. Even the newbiest of newbies can replace their losses easily these days; this was not so when entire fleets of newbies had to attack asteroid belts in Badgers and mining frigates in order to afford one battleship. Titans and motherships die, but not as fast as more are built.
Just a rant. Many will likely disagree. But I miss that feeling, from around 2005/06... flying around in a Zealot... feeling like a god of murder.
I want it back.
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Ger Tomard
Caldari Glorious Nation of Kazakhstan
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Posted - 2011.02.20 18:02:00 -
[121]
Originally by: Lady Spank Edited by: Lady Spank on 27/12/2010 18:04:59 Was there a point to this verbal diarrhoea?
EDIT: Oh I see, It's a stealth anti-American troll
Bad troll is bad, if this had any intellectual content it would be in ships and modules instead its wasted forum flotsom. [QUOTE]I think the next time you make one of these bad threads on this character, or any alt, you will be having a nice vacation to help work on making better threads. [/QUOTE] CCP finally acknowled |
Swynet
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Posted - 2011.02.20 19:08:00 -
[122]
Well, solo battleship doesn't means solopwnmobile for sure but bc's hac's are for sure that one too.
Imbalanced the game? -nah, everyone knows it's ok, hybrids are fine blasters are OP, minie stuff are just perfect and amarr stuff one step behind, and for missiles well those ones are fun even if they're far from being pownmobiles, buff angel ships nerf serpentis
Blobs are fine, you play an mmorpg so blobs are big fleets, wy should you play alone?
Wy are you raging about? -has you see everything is fine. ________________________________________________
Originally by: Goose99 In EVE, PVE can happen anywhere, anytime. Whenever you undock, you subject yourself to involuntary PVE.
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Copine Callmeknau
Kangaroos With Frickin Lazerbeams The KWFL Republic
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Posted - 2011.02.20 22:16:00 -
[123]
Edited by: Copine Callmeknau on 20/02/2011 22:21:16 lol @ people who think BS suck cause they can't figure out how to fit a second web.
BS are awesome, more awesome than when I started playing (RMR patchday). Tracking enhancer buff was the best thing ever.
You're fitting it wrong
Stunning EVE Online Theme for PS3 |
Awesome Possum
Foxtrot Uniform Charlie Kilo
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Posted - 2011.02.20 22:30:00 -
[124]
nerf USA ♥
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Kengutsi Akira
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Posted - 2011.02.20 23:40:00 -
[125]
Battleships arent meant to be solo pwnmobiles, BCs are lol
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TurboNutter
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Posted - 2011.02.28 23:15:00 -
[126]
My Anti Blob Solution
New T3 ship - T3 Tactical Stealth Cruiser
Cruiser Size
Warp Cloaked/Fire Cloaked Only mountable weapon being a new Cloaked Nuclear Cruise Missile, give this a long range upto 200km but a slow ish speed and make it so once it comes within a certain distance it alerts all ships " Danger Incoming Tactical Cruise", as it will be the slowest missile in the game this will give them some time to GTFO, or try to :), this has AOE damage of course and should insta pop BC and below and leave remaining ships with systems failures from the EMP blast or some such, this can then say leave the ships imobile and with no shields for 30 seconds or so. I can see this being pretty fkin cool. Also these missiles have some system onboard making them untargetable by any anti missile technology and untargetable in general.
Obviously these missiles would have to be expensive say 100mill each , if not more, maybe even a T2 version where it is a cluster warhead where 4 of them will detonate equally spaced around the target.
Please comment on my crazy madness, i know i like it
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Ephemeron
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2011.02.28 23:53:00 -
[127]
The main problem in using BS for small roaming gangs is lack of speed and agility
That is much more important that ability of BS to hit smaller targets. Before The Great Nano Nerf that could be resolved by using expensive faction gear on PvP battleship.
Now dumping money into PvP BS is kind of stupid since you can easily get hotdropped or blobbed - cause you are so easy to catch and hold. It's not cost effective.
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baltec1
Antares Shipyards Phalanx Alliance
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Posted - 2011.03.01 00:07:00 -
[128]
Originally by: Ephemeron The main problem in using BS for small roaming gangs is lack of speed and agility
That is much more important that ability of BS to hit smaller targets. Before The Great Nano Nerf that could be resolved by using expensive faction gear on PvP battleship.
Now dumping money into PvP BS is kind of stupid since you can easily get hotdropped or blobbed - cause you are so easy to catch and hold. It's not cost effective.
A battleship can easily have the agility and speed to keep up with a small battle cruiser gang.
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mishkof
Caldari Dirty Denizens
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Posted - 2011.03.01 00:48:00 -
[129]
It appears CCP could ban every US IP address and there would still be plenty of douche to go around.
Also, drakes are the new battleship.
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Ephemeron
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2011.03.01 01:16:00 -
[130]
Edited by: Ephemeron on 01/03/2011 01:16:56
Originally by: baltec1
Originally by: Ephemeron The main problem in using BS for small roaming gangs is lack of speed and agility
That is much more important that ability of BS to hit smaller targets. Before The Great Nano Nerf that could be resolved by using expensive faction gear on PvP battleship.
Now dumping money into PvP BS is kind of stupid since you can easily get hotdropped or blobbed - cause you are so easy to catch and hold. It's not cost effective.
A battleship can easily have the agility and speed to keep up with a small battle cruiser gang.
Keep up, yes. But when actual fighting starts. Who do you think will be tackled and held first of all? some HAC or a battleship?
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Verlaine Glariant
Amphysvena E C L I P S E
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Posted - 2011.03.01 03:36:00 -
[131]
Originally by: Ephemeron Who do you think will be tackled and held first of all? some HAC or a battleship?
That depends on the ISK value of the target ship. But yes I'd go for the HAC because it's non insurable and usually more expensive than a BS.
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Ephemeron
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2011.03.01 05:29:00 -
[132]
Originally by: Verlaine Glariant
Originally by: Ephemeron Who do you think will be tackled and held first of all? some HAC or a battleship?
That depends on the ISK value of the target ship. But yes I'd go for the HAC because it's non insurable and usually more expensive than a BS.
Sure if people sit still you go for most valuable target. But in actual combat you'd go for whatever you can catch. And battleship will be the easiest to catch and hold - resulting in death.
I flew 100s of battleships, so I tend to speak from experience
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baltec1
Antares Shipyards Phalanx Alliance
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Posted - 2011.03.01 09:20:00 -
[133]
Originally by: Ephemeron
Originally by: Verlaine Glariant
Originally by: Ephemeron Who do you think will be tackled and held first of all? some HAC or a battleship?
That depends on the ISK value of the target ship. But yes I'd go for the HAC because it's non insurable and usually more expensive than a BS.
Sure if people sit still you go for most valuable target. But in actual combat you'd go for whatever you can catch. And battleship will be the easiest to catch and hold - resulting in death.
I flew 100s of battleships, so I tend to speak from experience
My phoon was faster than most BC and it aligned faster so my BS was one of the hardest to catch in the gang dispite being the biggest target. My hyperion and mega are not as fast but they easily out run the average drake.
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Michwich
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Posted - 2011.03.01 10:23:00 -
[134]
Originally by: Kattshiro ... there aren't a whole lot of benefits to being solo.
Strictly speaking why should there be?
You know, think creator for a minute, you are creator. You need balance. Positive - Negative, Good - Evil, Black - White, Love - Hate, Man - Woman, Group - Solo. Its just natural, any attemps by developers to impose their morals or their subjective views on how nature works just fails time and time again. Why keep failing?
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Airu Naari
The Noxious
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Posted - 2011.03.01 13:03:00 -
[135]
I do agree solo play could use a boost, but that's just me and because I like alot of solo action in EVE Online. Ah, I can dream, right?
As for battleships being solo pwnmobiles.. no ship should be a solo pwnmobile. Not even a titan, until RMT and botters in general are taken care of and supercaps are generally balanced.
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The Djego
Minmatar Hellequin Inc.
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Posted - 2011.03.01 14:08:00 -
[136]
Edited by: The Djego on 01/03/2011 14:15:02
Originally by: Copine Callmeknau lol @ people who think BS suck cause they can't figure out how to fit a second web.
BS are awesome, more awesome than when I started playing (RMR patchday). Tracking enhancer buff was the best thing ever.
You're fitting it wrong
:facepalm:
Originally by: Ephemeron The main problem in using BS for small roaming gangs is lack of speed and agility.
That is much more important that ability of BS to hit smaller targets. Before The Great Nano Nerf that could be resolved by using expensive faction gear on PvP battleship.
Depends a lot on the BS type. While it works for the pest, it doesn't work for a mega. ---- Nerf Tank - Boost Gank!
Originally by: Amantus Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
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Grog Barrel
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Posted - 2011.03.01 15:09:00 -
[137]
Originally by: Ephemeron The main problem in using BS for small roaming gangs is lack of speed and agility.
That is much more important that ability of BS to hit smaller targets. Before The Great Nano Nerf that could be resolved by using expensive faction gear on PvP battleship.
Depends a lot on the BS type. While it works for the pest, it doesn't work for a mega.
he must be thinking of the machariel
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baltec1
Antares Shipyards Phalanx Alliance
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Posted - 2011.03.01 18:36:00 -
[138]
Originally by: The Djego
Depends a lot on the BS type. While it works for the pest, it doesn't work for a mega.
Mega can get quite nippy and agile but it wont be going solo.
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The Djego
Minmatar Hellequin Inc.
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Posted - 2011.03.01 18:49:00 -
[139]
Edited by: The Djego on 01/03/2011 18:49:37
Originally by: baltec1
Originally by: The Djego
Depends a lot on the BS type. While it works for the pest, it doesn't work for a mega.
Mega can get quite nippy and agile but it wont be going solo.
It is more about the ability to hit stuff at close range, what is extreme important for any solo/small gang bs that needs to fight at close quarters without totally relaying on massive tackling support. I for myself wouldn't even label the mega as a nimble and agile ship back in 2006(where it was nearly twice as fast as it is now). ---- Nerf Tank - Boost Gank!
Originally by: Amantus Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
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baltec1
Antares Shipyards Phalanx Alliance
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Posted - 2011.03.01 18:55:00 -
[140]
Originally by: The Djego
It is more about the ability to hit stuff at close range, what is extreme important for any solo/small gang bs that needs to fight at close quarters without totally relaying on massive tackling support. I for myself wouldn't even label the mega as a nimble and agile ship back in 2006(where it was nearly twice as fast as it is now).
Better than most drakes I encouter
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The Djego
Minmatar Hellequin Inc.
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Posted - 2011.03.01 19:35:00 -
[141]
Edited by: The Djego on 01/03/2011 19:38:50
Originally by: baltec1
Originally by: The Djego
It is more about the ability to hit stuff at close range, what is extreme important for any solo/small gang bs that needs to fight at close quarters without totally relaying on massive tackling support. I for myself wouldn't even label the mega as a nimble and agile ship back in 2006(where it was nearly twice as fast as it is now).
Better than most drakes I encouter
A drake is 200 m/s faster and aligned 50% quicker than a fitted mega. Leave alone the nano drake gangs where you even get a headache in a nano pest. A nano drake goes 50% as faster and aligns twice as fast than a mega... ---- Nerf Tank - Boost Gank!
Originally by: Amantus Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
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Ephemeron
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2011.03.01 19:38:00 -
[142]
I rarely see battleships in roaming gangs of 0.0, tho battleship is still often used in low sec and empire wars.
Anyone care to speculate why there's such a difference between empire and 0.0?
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Isus Jarode
Gallente Sons of Ivaldi
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Posted - 2011.03.01 19:42:00 -
[143]
Originally by: hired goon Before we continue can someone please explain to me why you would subscribe to a 'Massively Multiplayer' game, then complain on said game's forums there is a lack of solo-play?
The guy probably just made a new character on his original account. That way his real identity remains anonymous.
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The Djego
Minmatar Hellequin Inc.
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Posted - 2011.03.01 19:45:00 -
[144]
Originally by: Ephemeron Anyone care to speculate why there's such a difference between empire and 0.0?
You also see them rarely in Low Sec in this kind of gangs. Call me old school but I still like solo BS pvp. ---- Nerf Tank - Boost Gank!
Originally by: Amantus Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
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Ephemeron
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2011.03.01 19:51:00 -
[145]
Originally by: Isus Jarode
Originally by: hired goon Before we continue can someone please explain to me why you would subscribe to a 'Massively Multiplayer' game, then complain on said game's forums there is a lack of solo-play?
The guy probably just made a new character on his original account. That way his real identity remains anonymous.
Actually, in EVE, solo PvP means "one versus everyone"
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baltec1
Antares Shipyards Phalanx Alliance
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Posted - 2011.03.01 20:21:00 -
[146]
Originally by: The Djego
A drake is 200 m/s faster and aligned 50% quicker than a fitted mega. Leave alone the nano drake gangs where you even get a headache in a nano pest. A nano drake goes 50% as faster and aligns twice as fast than a mega...
Then you are doing it wrong.
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The Djego
Minmatar Hellequin Inc.
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Posted - 2011.03.01 21:13:00 -
[147]
Originally by: baltec1
Originally by: The Djego
A drake is 200 m/s faster and aligned 50% quicker than a fitted mega. Leave alone the nano drake gangs where you even get a headache in a nano pest. A nano drake goes 50% as faster and aligns twice as fast than a mega...
Then you are doing it wrong.
I doubt this. But yeah, feel free post your fit and explain your solo BS wisdom to me. ---- Nerf Tank - Boost Gank!
Originally by: Amantus Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
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baltec1
Antares Shipyards Phalanx Alliance
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Posted - 2011.03.01 21:26:00 -
[148]
Originally by: The Djego
I doubt this. But yeah, feel free post your fit and explain your solo BS wisdom to me.
2x nano and MWD.
Everything else is up to you. Mega easily keeps up with or beats the average blob drake setup most people fly these days.
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Ephemeron
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2011.03.01 21:51:00 -
[149]
Edited by: Ephemeron on 01/03/2011 21:54:17
Originally by: baltec1
Originally by: The Djego
I doubt this. But yeah, feel free post your fit and explain your solo BS wisdom to me.
2x nano and MWD.
Everything else is up to you. Mega easily keeps up with or beats the average blob drake setup most people fly these days.
battleship MWD is really bad for true nano tactics. The cap usage is absolutely horrible.
Making 100mn MWD sustainable would allow battleships to compete with other ship classes in speed tactics.
EDIT: a shield tanked Drake would have much stronger tank than shield tanked Mega. That's another advantage of BC's. A proper blaster mega would have at least 1 1600mm plate, with reduces speed and acceleration
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The Djego
Minmatar Hellequin Inc.
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Posted - 2011.03.01 22:04:00 -
[150]
Originally by: baltec1
Originally by: The Djego
I doubt this. But yeah, feel free post your fit and explain your solo BS wisdom to me.
2x nano and MWD.
Everything else is up to you. Mega easily keeps up with or beats the average blob drake setup most people fly these days.
So the trick is still being slower than a pest with one nano, having the less effective dps, less buffer, less flexibility(one less high slot)?
I really have issues seeing your point. A nano drake is still nearly 100m/s quicker and aligned 5s faster. ---- Nerf Tank - Boost Gank!
Originally by: Amantus Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
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baltec1
Antares Shipyards Phalanx Alliance
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Posted - 2011.03.01 22:14:00 -
[151]
Originally by: The Djego
Originally by: baltec1
Originally by: The Djego
I doubt this. But yeah, feel free post your fit and explain your solo BS wisdom to me.
2x nano and MWD.
Everything else is up to you. Mega easily keeps up with or beats the average blob drake setup most people fly these days.
So the trick is still being slower than a pest with one nano, having the less effective dps, less buffer, less flexibility(one less high slot)?
I really have issues seeing your point. A nano drake is still nearly 100m/s quicker and aligned 5s faster.
9/10 drakes out there are not nano. I also question your numbers on the pest, as far as damage goes very few things are as powerfull as a rack of large neutron blasters. Yes the mega is slower than a pest and wont have the two heavy neuts but for raw power few come close. Range might be limited but seeing as most combat takes place at around 20-30k its not much of an issue.
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The Djego
Minmatar Hellequin Inc.
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Posted - 2011.03.02 00:05:00 -
[152]
Originally by: baltec1
Originally by: The Djego
Originally by: baltec1
Originally by: The Djego
I doubt this. But yeah, feel free post your fit and explain your solo BS wisdom to me.
2x nano and MWD.
Everything else is up to you. Mega easily keeps up with or beats the average blob drake setup most people fly these days.
So the trick is still being slower than a pest with one nano, having the less effective dps, less buffer, less flexibility(one less high slot)?
I really have issues seeing your point. A nano drake is still nearly 100m/s quicker and aligned 5s faster.
9/10 drakes out there are not nano.
A cane is just as fast, guess what most of the people flying down here?
Originally by: baltec1 I also question your numbers on the pest, as far as damage goes very few things are as powerful as a rack of large neutron blasters. Yes the mega is slower than a pest and wont have the two heavy neuts but for raw power few come close. Range might be limited but seeing as most combat takes place at around 20-30k its not much of an issue.
I flown both a lot in max gank fittings(1600 DPS mega, 1350 DPS pest), a pest is just as lethal today as a mega was back in the days. The difference is that the mega isn't practical as damage dealer anymore, it lacks at range, it can't hit up close. The pest is also pretty useless at point blank, however it is quite good at 25-15km ranges.
---- Nerf Tank - Boost Gank!
Originally by: Amantus Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
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Ephemeron
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2011.03.02 00:12:00 -
[153]
Quote: however it is quite good at 25-15km ranges
And how much DPS do you get at that range?
For some reason I could never get my Tempest beyond 1000 dps, and that's at point blank, sitting still.
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The Djego
Minmatar Hellequin Inc.
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Posted - 2011.03.02 00:31:00 -
[154]
Originally by: Ephemeron
Quote: however it is quite good at 25-15km ranges
And how much DPS do you get at that range?
For some reason I could never get my Tempest beyond 1000 dps, and that's at point blank, sitting still.
All 5 including drone and gun specs, both 5% damage imps, w/o heat.
15km: 927 with the nano pest(including warriors). 1098 with the gank pest(including valkyres).
25km: 776 with the nano pest. 924 with the gank pest.
---- Nerf Tank - Boost Gank!
Originally by: Amantus Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
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Ephemeron
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2011.03.02 01:47:00 -
[155]
what gun type, what ammo type, how many damage mods?
My "practical" tank+gank Tempest setups deal about 700-800 dps
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Swynet
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Posted - 2011.03.02 02:15:00 -
[156]
Edited by: Swynet on 02/03/2011 02:21:40
Originally by: Airu Naari As for battleships being solo pwnmobiles.. no ship should be a solo pwnmobile.
You've never knew someone flying Angel ships or Carriers/super-carriers did you?
Those are solo pownmobiles in most of their possible usages and whenever the guy who fitted them has the skills and the brains for them. Even if if those ones will need a less brains than other ones.
Edit: BS's are the only sub cap killmailmobile for the price of 10 to 50 of any ship than can pown them fingers in "tha nose" ________________________________________________
Originally by: Goose99 In EVE, PVE can happen anywhere, anytime. Whenever you undock, you subject yourself to involuntary PVE.
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Airu Naari
The Noxious
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Posted - 2011.03.02 08:21:00 -
[157]
Originally by: Swynet Edited by: Swynet on 02/03/2011 02:21:40
Originally by: Airu Naari As for battleships being solo pwnmobiles.. no ship should be a solo pwnmobile.
You've never knew someone flying Angel ships or Carriers/super-carriers did you?
Those are solo pownmobiles in most of their possible usages and whenever the guy who fitted them has the skills and the brains for them. Even if if those ones will need a less brains than other ones.
Edit: BS's are the only sub cap killmailmobile for the price of 10 to 50 of any ship than can pown them fingers in "tha nose"
Yea, you're right. I have seen it in videos, never done it myself though. But, as you said, the pilot has to have a great deal of insight into the game mechanics, have some more brains than usual as well as have a cold head in some situations in order to turn a good ship into a solo pwnmobile. The truth is, not everyone can do it, and it's a good thing.
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The Djego
Minmatar Hellequin Inc.
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Posted - 2011.03.02 09:01:00 -
[158]
Originally by: Ephemeron what gun type, what ammo type, how many damage mods?
My "practical" tank+gank Tempest setups deal about 700-800 dps
[Tempest, nano] Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Nanofiber Internal Structure II Damage Control II Tracking Enhancer II Tracking Enhancer II
Quad LiF Fueled I Booster Rockets Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Warp Disruptor II Invulnerability Field II
Heavy Unstable Power Fluctuator I 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet Fusion L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet Fusion L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet Fusion L Heavy Diminishing Power System Drain I 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet Fusion L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet Fusion L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet Fusion L
Large Projectile Burst Aerator II Large Core Defence Field Extender I Large Core Defence Field Extender I
Warrior II x5 Vespa EC-600 x5
[Tempest, gank] Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Damage Control II Tracking Enhancer II Tracking Enhancer II
Quad LiF Fueled I Booster Rockets Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Warp Disruptor II Invulnerability Field II
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Caldari Navy Paradise Cruise Missile 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L 'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Caldari Navy Paradise Cruise Missile 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
Large Projectile Burst Aerator II Large Core Defence Field Extender I Large Core Defence Field Extender I
Valkyrie II x5 Warrior II x5
---- Nerf Tank - Boost Gank!
Originally by: Amantus Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
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