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Evis Caderu
Wolf Star Technocracy
0
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Posted - 2012.08.14 11:52:00 -
[1] - Quote
As the title suggests, it's a pretty simple question. I apologize if this has been discussed previously in the forums as I have searched numerous covert ops fittings to find the answer. After gathering enough information, unfortunately I cannot reach into a conclusion.
I am trying to fly an Anathema through low-secs. Which is recommended? an afterburner / MWD? I'm afraid if I use microwarpdrive, the signal resolution of my ship is going to be too easy for tacklers to lock on.
Any anathema fitting recommendations are also appreciated. Thanks. |
Sin Pew
Dakini Rising The Kali Cartel
85
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Posted - 2012.08.14 12:12:00 -
[2] - Quote
Evis Caderu wrote:As the title suggests, it's a pretty simple question. I apologize if this has been discussed previously in the forums as I have searched numerous covert ops fittings to find the answer. After gathering enough information, unfortunately I cannot reach into a conclusion.
I am trying to fly an Anathema through low-secs. Which is recommended? an afterburner / MWD? I'm afraid if I use microwarpdrive, the signal resolution of my ship is going to be too easy for tacklers to lock on. I'm planning to do the MWD/AB + Cloak trick. (covert ops cloaking )
Any anathema fitting recommendations are also appreciated. Thanks. It needs some training, but MWD/Cloak should work in a lot of situations, AB doesn't provide enough of a brutal speed boost to propel you.
The trick is mostly used for ships other than cov-ops, since it allows them to take a safe range with the MWD impulse while cloaked to reach a proper speed to drop cloak and initiate instant-warp. Cov-ops don't have that problem since they can warp cloaked. If you want to fly an anathema, fill the lows with nano structures, maybe a CPU upgrade if you want to fit an expanded probe launcher and a MWD. But the fitting is tight on this girl and prop mods suck up loads of CPU/PG. Depends on the usage of the boat though, you didn't explain. "haiku are easy, But sometimes they don't make sense, Refrigerator." |
Sin Pew
Dakini Rising The Kali Cartel
85
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Posted - 2012.08.14 12:19:00 -
[3] - Quote
Also, non half-assed gatecamps will have SeBo tornados + OffGrid boosters that can lock anything in less time it takes to say "shi-" and the MWD sig penalty won't make a significant difference. But you don't find gatecamps at *every* Hi->Lo gates. "haiku are easy, But sometimes they don't make sense, Refrigerator." |
Keith Gavner
Unpredictable Carnage SpaceMonkey's Alliance
4
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Posted - 2012.08.14 12:19:00 -
[4] - Quote
The best afterburner will provide a speed boost up to 159%. With the right skill, any mwd will boost your speed around 600%. If you find yourself in a gate camp, there are bad people around. Those guys want to get you to do things to you and you won't like it.
What do you want then ? GTFO
With it's superior speed boost, the mwd will provide you a better solution to get out than the afterburner. Thus, you will want to get a mwd for any regular ship.
If you are flying a cov ops, the situation is slightly different as you won't get any trouble, except when you enter a new system and then, it's better to be able to warp away fast and cloak rather than trying to burn away from the gate. Thus, you will want to use modules and rigs that decrease your align time such as nano structure.
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Keno Skir
Vectis Covert Solutions
167
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Posted - 2012.08.14 12:24:00 -
[5] - Quote
I'd suggest since you say lowsec and are flyng a cov-ops, you just cloak up after you jump and warp away :P
Assuming tho you may encounter the occasional organised camp with enough tacklers orbiting the gate to decloak you, really you want to be able to align, warp and generally move as fast as humanly possible and so the suggestion is still nano's and a mwd.
Remember sometimes if you really are definitely gonna get tackled, just burn back to the gate and jump back through. Anybody who tries to tackle you this side will have a GCC and be unable to jump after you.
Really tho in a stealth frigate that can warp cloaked your not going to have much trouble in most of lowsec. If you have any further thoughts on something i've posted, or want to ask an unrelated question feel free to contact me by EvE Mail or by private conversation if i'm online. BUDDY TRIALS AVAILABLE - 21days plus big ISK bonus and starting assistance |
Vilnius Zar
Ordo Ardish
125
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Posted - 2012.08.14 12:31:00 -
[6] - Quote
No, in a scouting role you ALWAYS want an MWD, there is zero reasoning to use an AB. Would you be in 0.0/WH then you want the MWD to clear a bubble, and AB can't do that. Would you jump in too close to another ship and you don't feel it's safe to align out then you want to burn back to the gate to jump out again, an AB can't do that.
The whole sig bloom is a non-issue due to your cloaking time (nearly instant). Amat victoria curam. |
Evis Caderu
Wolf Star Technocracy
0
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Posted - 2012.08.14 12:41:00 -
[7] - Quote
Thank you guys for the recommendations. The explanation regarding the sig radius aint going to make much a difference to a good fitted tackler ship really helps. Seems like MWD is a way to go then. |
Velicitia
Open Designs
1070
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Posted - 2012.08.14 12:59:00 -
[8] - Quote
step 1. Keep Calm and hold Gate Cloak
step 2. Figure out the best way out of the situation, you have ~30 seconds til gate cloak deactivates. CovOps have it pretty easy (warp, then F1 after about a 0.5 sec delay, so you don't get the "gate cloak is preventing you from activating modules" error). Non CovOps, the MWD + cloak --> instawarp trick is helpful. |
Sin Pew
Dakini Rising The Kali Cartel
85
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Posted - 2012.08.14 13:24:00 -
[9] - Quote
Evis Caderu wrote:Thank you guys for the recommendations. The explanation regarding the sig radius aint going to make much a difference to a good fitted tackler ship really helps. Seems like MWD is a way to go then. It's not as much about the tacklers that you should be worried, but the insta-lockers. Once you are locked-targetted, you can't cloak up anymore and end up caught with your pants down for a volley of 1400mm. So the idea is mostly to cloak fast enough to avoid that and also put as much distance as possible between your landing spot after the jump where an interceptor might be burning to and your real position to avoid being decloaked before you warp. "haiku are easy, But sometimes they don't make sense, Refrigerator." |
Tialano Utrigas
Running with Knives Nexus Fleet
1
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Posted - 2012.08.14 13:28:00 -
[10] - Quote
Do either Warp Scramblers or Warp Disrupters play silly buggers with an MWD? |
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highonpop
Void.Tech Fatal Ascension
209
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Posted - 2012.08.14 13:41:00 -
[11] - Quote
The only time I fit a AB instead of a mwd is for PvE or when I'm using a frigate in certain blob fleets so my sig radius isn't ridiculous, which helps defend against bombing runs.
For scouting, MWD all the way.
http://www.soundboard.com/sb/Very%20best%20of%20Makalu%20Zarya |
Louis deGuerre
The Dark Tribe Against ALL Authorities
441
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Posted - 2012.08.14 13:46:00 -
[12] - Quote
Tialano Utrigas wrote:Do either Warp Scramblers or Warp Disrupters play silly buggers with an MWD?
Warp scramblers will shut down an MWD, a warp disruptor (or warp disruption bubble) will not. FIRE FRIENDSHIP TORPEDOES ! Louis's epic skill guide v1.1 |
Major Trant
Royal Order of Security Specialists Late Night Alliance
98
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Posted - 2012.08.14 14:13:00 -
[13] - Quote
The only time you should consider an Afterburner is when you intend to duke it out in close range PvP combat.
For a Covert Ops ships the only choice is MWD (if you bother with either), but I don't think you quite understand what you are talking about (no offense).
The MWD/Cloak trick is really for a ship that fits a normal cloaking device. The only time it bears any relevance to a ship fitted with a Covert Cloaking device is in null, when you jump through a gate into a bubble. But then it is only the first half of the trick you need to pull. In low sec, you don't need any prop mod for avoiding gate camps, you just break gate cloak, cloak and warp.
The only danger is an instalocking ship, but any gate camp so organised is likely to also have a big alpha and you will be dead in the next second. If they don't kill you immediately, a MWD is still the best chance, forget the sig bloat, your only chances is either burn out of point range or burn back to the gate before the big hitters can lock you or get in range.
Warp Scramblers shut down a MWD but have a very limited range of around 9km. When you break cloak, even if they are in range, you will get the first cycle of the MWD in play before the Scramber switches it off, that is enough to get you back to jump range in a frigate. |
Nerath Naaris
Pink Winged Unicorns for Peace Love and Anarchy
128
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Posted - 2012.08.14 16:48:00 -
[14] - Quote
Ok, assuming I have no cloak, are my chances better trying to burn back to the gate or should I just wait for the right moment (if any) and try to warp off? Forum-unbanned since 2011.10.20. |
Cameron Zero
Red Federation
87
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Posted - 2012.08.14 18:01:00 -
[15] - Quote
I would also point out, you can cloak and THEN MWD if you do it immediately. You will get one cycle of MWD just like you would have if you hit the MWD, first.
I don't know if this will affect the "signature bloom" of the MWD or not, but it is possible (or was when I was last in my stealth bomber two weeks ago).
In any event, AB is more likely to get your covops boat killed than the MWD. "I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser Gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. GǪ" |
Vilnius Zar
Ordo Ardish
125
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Posted - 2012.08.14 18:17:00 -
[16] - Quote
Velicitia wrote:step 1. Keep Calm and hold Gate Cloak
step 2. Figure out the best way out of the situation, you have ~30 seconds til gate cloak deactivates. CovOps have it pretty easy (warp, then F1 after about a 0.5 sec delay, so you don't get the "gate cloak is preventing you from activating modules" error). Non CovOps, the MWD + cloak --> instawarp trick is helpful.
Advice is valid but gatecloak lasts 60 seconds, not 30.
Amat victoria curam. |
Velicitia
Open Designs
1071
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Posted - 2012.08.14 19:31:00 -
[17] - Quote
Vilnius Zar wrote:Velicitia wrote:step 1. Keep Calm and hold Gate Cloak
step 2. Figure out the best way out of the situation, you have ~30 seconds til gate cloak deactivates. CovOps have it pretty easy (warp, then F1 after about a 0.5 sec delay, so you don't get the "gate cloak is preventing you from activating modules" error). Non CovOps, the MWD + cloak --> instawarp trick is helpful. Advice is valid but gatecloak lasts 60 seconds, not 30.
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Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
921
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Posted - 2012.08.14 20:29:00 -
[18] - Quote
Whatever you choose, when you wake-up in your new clone you'll wish you had chosen the other.
In general I favour MWD, as I have a chance to get at least one cycle off before being scrammed. AB are pretty useless when webbed too. Unless there are dedicated tacklers on the gate, they are unlikely to have a scram or web, and very unlikely to have both. If they have both, you're cooked. |
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
458
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Posted - 2012.08.14 21:18:00 -
[19] - Quote
A few points: The MWD-Cloak trick is for NON-COVERT Cloak fit ships.... read up on it, you don't NEED to use that method to move around when you have a covert cloak, because the covert cloak lets you warp WHILE cloaked....
The MWD is typically better for traveling..... It allows you to move much faster.... AB fit ships are primarily used for combat range control. Unless you're PLANNING on taking your covert ops ship into combat, you almost certainly want an MWD.
Advise for using your MWD when flying through a gate camp.... If you come through a gate and there's a camp, you should find an object to warp to (like a planet) that will not direct your ship towards the gate or an enemy ship... Hit align, and then quickly hit cloak, and THEN activate your MWD (you have 2ish seconds to activate it after you cloak), and then hit warp. If you are in lowsec, you rarely need to hit activate your mwd, as no bubbles makes it very hard for a ship to power to you and decloak you before you can warp.
In Nullsec, when there is a bubbler on grid, it's important to hit align first, as if you only hit warp, and THEN they pop a bubble around your ship, your ship will come to a complete stop and just sit there, making you much easier to decloak.
Here's a basic anathema fit I just made up. You should probably swap mods and stuff based on your skills and purpose... For example, at covops V, you no longer need the coprocessor, and I tackle with my covops, which means I put a tackle mod on it along with some other changes.
[Anathema, New Setup 1] Overdrive Injector System II Nanofiber Internal Structure II Co-Processor II
Limited 1MN MicroWarpdrive I Small Shield Extender II Upgraded EM Ward Amplifier I Thermic Dissipation Amplifier I
Covert Ops Cloaking Device II Expanded Probe Launcher II, Core Scanner Probe I [empty high slot]
Small Gravity Capacitor Upgrade I Small Gravity Capacitor Upgrade I |
Vilnius Zar
Ordo Ardish
125
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Posted - 2012.08.15 06:23:00 -
[20] - Quote
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:Here's a basic anathema fit I just made up.
That fit needs some work. First of all it's zero use to fit tank on a covertops frig and small shield extenders add zilch really. Here's a few fits that make sense:
Basic scout, ECM Burst for those "oh crap" moments, the rest is all nanofibers for speed&agility. This fits with covops 4, would you have covops 5 then you can fill the remaining slots with "whatever" like a salvager or perhaps a long point.
[Anathema, Basic Scout] Nanofiber Internal Structure II Nanofiber Internal Structure II Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Limited 1MN MicroWarpdrive I ECM Burst II [empty med slot] [empty med slot]
[empty high slot] Expanded Probe Launcher II, Core Scanner Probe I Covert Ops Cloaking Device II
Small Gravity Capacitor Upgrade I Small Gravity Capacitor Upgrade I
This scout gives the option for the initial tackle, the damps help surviving the time it takes for your fleet to jump into system and warping to you. Needs Covert ops 5 obviously.
[Anathema, Forward Tackler] Nanofiber Internal Structure II Nanofiber Internal Structure II Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Limited 1MN MicroWarpdrive I Warp Disruptor II Phased Muon Sensor Disruptor I, Scan Resolution Dampening Script Phased Muon Sensor Disruptor I, Scan Resolution Dampening Script
Salvager I /OFFLINE Sisters Expanded Probe Launcher, Core Scanner Probe I Covert Ops Cloaking Device II
Small Gravity Capacitor Upgrade I Small Gravity Capacitor Upgrade I
This one shows the true strength of the Anathema, why it's the best of the bunch, as it can fit everything and have it all online including the Cyno.
[Anathema, BO Covert] 'Dyad' Co-Processor I Nanofiber Internal Structure II Micro Auxiliary Power Core I
Limited 1MN MicroWarpdrive I Faint Warp Disruptor I Phased Muon Sensor Disruptor I, Scan Resolution Dampening Script Phased Muon Sensor Disruptor I, Scan Resolution Dampening Script
Covert Cynosural Field Generator I Sisters Expanded Probe Launcher, Core Scanner Probe I Covert Ops Cloaking Device II
Small Gravity Capacitor Upgrade I Small Gravity Capacitor Upgrade I Amat victoria curam. |
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Celeste Taylor
Ruby Dynasty
106
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Posted - 2012.08.15 11:13:00 -
[21] - Quote
Covert Ops works fairly well for me in low sec but I recently have experienced null for the first time in my Viator, and those warp bubbles freak me out a bit. Even though the MWD takes up almost all of my power grid I do feel much better having one when in null.
I also like MWD over ABs on my mission boats since they make travel much faster especially when looting after combat. |
Cameron Zero
Red Federation
87
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Posted - 2012.08.15 15:04:00 -
[22] - Quote
[quote=Gizznitt Malikite]A few points: The MWD-Cloak trick is for NON-COVERT Cloak fit ships.... read up on it, you don't NEED to use that method to move around when you have a covert cloak, because the covert cloak lets you warp WHILE cloaked..../quote]
I would take issue with this, actually. In a gatecamp, MWD/Cloak will help you get out of a bubbled gate much better than simply double-clicking in space and hitting the cloak will. Even a covops boat can benefit from MWD/Cloak. "I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser Gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. GǪ" |
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
459
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Posted - 2012.08.15 16:19:00 -
[23] - Quote
Cameron Zero wrote:[quote=Gizznitt Malikite]A few points: The MWD-Cloak trick is for NON-COVERT Cloak fit ships.... read up on it, you don't NEED to use that method to move around when you have a covert cloak, because the covert cloak lets you warp WHILE cloaked..../quote]
I would take issue with this, actually. In a gatecamp, MWD/Cloak will help you get out of a bubbled gate much better than simply double-clicking in space and hitting the cloak will. Even a covops boat can benefit from MWD/Cloak.
Forgive me if I was unclear: The MWD-Cloack trick typically refers to a specific maneuver in EvE.
The standard MWD-Cloak trick is used to move non-agile ships (like battleships) through a lowsec gate camp. This method works by fitting an improved cloak to a ship, aligning to your warp destination, hitting cloak, and hitting the mwd. The MWD speed boost, even with the speed penatly of the improved cloaking device, will allow the ship to reach 75% of it's normally speed by the end of the MWD cycle. When the cycle ends, you decloak and spam warp. Since you aligned while under cloak, and since your speed when the cloak comes off is 75+% of your max speed, you INSTANTLY enter warp. When this manuever is properly timed, a gate camp will not be able to lock the ship before it cloaks, nor before it eneters warp. This "trick" is much less useful in nullsec because bubblers will prevent your warp without the need to target you. This trick is mildly risky in lowsec, as a mis-timed decloak will leave your opponents an opportunity to tackle you. This trick is completely unnecessary when using a covert cloak, as you can warp away without decloaking.
In my post I clearly explain how to use an MWD-pulse when aligning in a covert ops ships, although I did not emphasize the the two purposes it serves:
1.) It allows you to power out of a bubble (or soon to appear bubble) more quickly. 2.) It gets your ship as far away from your spawn point as quickly as possible. This is important because many gate campers will send fast ships powering to your spawn point in the hopes of decloaking and tackling you before you warp. |
Vilnius Zar
Ordo Ardish
128
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Posted - 2012.08.15 16:37:00 -
[24] - Quote
cloak/MWD trick. Amat victoria curam. |
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
923
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Posted - 2012.08.15 21:47:00 -
[25] - Quote
CCP Dropbear even linked a video of how it is done: MWD+cloak trick..how to do it
I prefer: EVE tutorial: Cloak - mwd trick (same link as quoted)
FYI I've also done it in a Rorqual, but I had to overheat the 100MN MWD to get the behemoth moving. When the capital shield booster took heat damage (rare) it took a ton of nanite paste to repair the capital-sized module. |
Sin Pew
Dakini Rising The Kali Cartel
86
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Posted - 2012.08.16 07:39:00 -
[26] - Quote
Tau Cabalander wrote:CCP Dropbear even linked a video of how it is done: MWD+cloak trick..how to do it I prefer: EVE tutorial: Cloak - mwd trick (same link as quoted) FYI I've also done it in a Rorqual, but I had to overheat the 100MN MWD to get the behemoth moving. When the capital shield booster took heat damage (rare) it took a ton of nanite paste to repair the capital-sized module. LOL I love those stories "haiku are easy, But sometimes they don't make sense, Refrigerator." |
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