Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 .. 11 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 46 post(s) |
|
CCP FoxFour
C C P C C P Alliance
336
|
Posted - 2012.08.14 14:26:00 -
[1] - Quote
Before I go into the details of what I am thinking I want to make a few things clear:
1) There is a reason for what I am doing. I am not doing this just to annoy people who run killboards. 2) At this point no changes have been made, I am looking for some feedback. 3) Doing it right and setting the bar for all turrets. 4) Feedback please!
Before going into what I would like to change I want to talk quickly about what goes into the name of a weapon.
Let's look at small blasters for an example of things working well:
There are three basic types of small blasters: Light Electron Light Ion Light Neutron
We then have (not looking at faction) 5 basic versions of those: Blaster I Anode Particle Cannon I Limited Blaster I Modal Particle Accelerator I Regulated Phase Cannon I Blaster II
Each of the five above versions takes the type name and slots it into the version name somewhere. For some it is at the beginning, for others it is after the first word. What you end up with though is basically this:
$versionPrefix $typeName $versionName
Knowing this we can easily and predictably create a list of small blasters: Light Electron Blaster I Anode Light Electron Particle Cannon I Limited Light Electron Blaster I Modal Light Electron Particle Accelerator I Regulated Light Electron Phase Cannon I Light Electron Blaster II
Now this is a case of the design working right. Just don't go looking many other places for it to actually work this well.
Continuing on the "what is in the name" but on a slightly different track I want to talk about sizes. This is referring to light, medium, heavy, mega, large, and whatever else we use to talk about size. The size of a weapon should match the market group it is in. Small for weapons in the small group, medium for... well you get the idea.
Next up is the meta level descriptor. Small Pulse Lasers use the following (in order): Afocal (meta level 1) Modal (meta level 2) Anode (meta level 3) Modualted (meta level 4)
Small Blasters use: Regulated (meta level 1) Limited (meta level 2) Anode (meta level 3) Modal (meta level 4)
So Modal is used across different weapon groups, but with different meanings. It hurts. Luckily though our kind writing department came up with a solution to this nonsense for all equipment. A standerdized meta level descriptor. A quick reminder of how that looks: Upgraded (meta level 1) Limited (meta level 2) Experimental (meta level 3) Prototype (meta level 4)
This common meta level was applied to lots of things such as shield hardeners, propulsion modules, and armor plating to name a few.
So that is what we think should go into a weapon's name. If you take it and apply that logic to just about any weapon group I am sure you will find it fails. We need to start somewhere though. If you ask around the EVE community most people will agree that lasers have the most confusing naming convention as it stands. So start there we shall.
So what is wrong with lasers right now and why fix them? Well hopefully you have read above and once I point out the what, the why will be obvious.
Here are the three main things wrong when looking at the small pulse laser group on the market: We have three different weapon types in there all with different sizes. Light pulse, medium pulse, and just pulse. There are lots of cases where the version of the weapon name destroys the actual name of the weapon instead of just merging with it. The meta level names don't match the rest of the inventory.
So starting with pulse lasers, what could a revamped laser section look like? Before I show this I want to reiterate something I said at the beginning and just now: This is just a design right now, this is what it could look like. Could look like. OK, so on with pretty pictures.
http://i.imgur.com/cI9tP.png
Random other notes: * Faction/Storyline/Officer mods do not include the I on the end. Keep it likes this? Or include it? I am leaning towards keeping it as is. * Galting is renamed to Spiral in this case, this is not a sure thing. Lots of people wanted it changed last time this was talked about. So I was playing around testing.
And since my last graphic was more spreadsheet than anything, and Google failed to give me anything near what I wanted, here is my terrible designer art attempting to show how lasers hate life: http://i.imgur.com/hawIF.png Content Designer | Team Five 0 @regnerBA |
|
|
CCP FoxFour
C C P C C P Alliance
336
|
Posted - 2012.08.14 14:26:00 -
[2] - Quote
*reserved for updates* Content Designer | Team Five 0 @regnerBA |
|
Professor Clio
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
130
|
Posted - 2012.08.14 14:30:00 -
[3] - Quote
Spriral sounds weird, but other than that, more logic in naming conventions is great. I always thought that whoever came up with these names did it to confuse new players :/ |
|
CCP FoxFour
C C P C C P Alliance
336
|
Posted - 2012.08.14 14:32:00 -
[4] - Quote
Professor Clio wrote:Spriral sounds weird, but other than that, more logic in naming conventions is great. I always thought that whoever came up with these names did it to confuse new players :/
Yea, I am neither for nor against it. The last thread that talked about lasers and their names had a lot of people saying that if anything changed that should be one of the things so I was testing it. Content Designer | Team Five 0 @regnerBA |
|
Siyis Rholh
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
10
|
Posted - 2012.08.14 14:34:00 -
[5] - Quote
What does spriral even mean? :D It doesn't sound bad, but yeah. |
Louis deGuerre
The Dark Tribe Against ALL Authorities
441
|
Posted - 2012.08.14 14:37:00 -
[6] - Quote
Modualted vs modulated (text) Spriral vs spiral (sheet)
those ain't real words.
Even if it was 'spiral' it would be a pretty poor choice.
Also, when can we finally include pictures on forums ?
To be honest, I never understood lasers well with their 3 categories instead of 2 like the rest. So basically anything will be an improvement for me. FIRE FRIENDSHIP TORPEDOES ! Louis's epic skill guide v1.1 |
Rees Noturana
Red Rock Mining Company
118
|
Posted - 2012.08.14 14:39:00 -
[7] - Quote
Siyis Rholh wrote:What does spriral even mean? :D It doesn't sound bad, but yeah.
I'm guessing Spiral but I don't like it either way. Needs more work.
-á |
Salpun
Paramount Commerce
370
|
Posted - 2012.08.14 14:39:00 -
[8] - Quote
Siyis Rholh wrote:What does spriral even mean? :D It doesn't sound bad, but yeah.
Its better then spinning
Can't be anything like faint becouse that would sound like they are the worst ones.
On with the name suggestions.
Foxfour do you have a list of names that content thinks would work so we can vote? |
|
CCP FoxFour
C C P C C P Alliance
336
|
Posted - 2012.08.14 14:41:00 -
[9] - Quote
Salpun wrote:Siyis Rholh wrote:What does spriral even mean? :D It doesn't sound bad, but yeah. Its better then spinning Can't be anything like faint becouse that would sound like they are the worst ones. On with the name suggestions. Foxfour do you have a list of names that content thinks would work so we can vote?
I think the other one on the list was Strobe... Content Designer | Team Five 0 @regnerBA |
|
Rees Noturana
Red Rock Mining Company
118
|
Posted - 2012.08.14 14:41:00 -
[10] - Quote
Maybe "Rapid" if "Gatling" isn't preferred since it's a dude's name. -á |
|
Syndic Thrass
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
138
|
Posted - 2012.08.14 14:43:00 -
[11] - Quote
I don't think anyone has any qualms about fixing everything to fit one naming scheme. When prop mods and shield hardeners changed, it was a slight annoyance for like 30 minutes then it was just as good as always. One thing to keep in mind is making stuff easy to search for on the market though. Like when I'm fitting up a Drake (for example) and I want 3 kinds of hardeners, its nice to be able to type "field ii" and they all pop up. making it (prefix) Electron Blaster II or whatever would be p cool just because that would make navigating the market in general easier.
Reguards, Iskies-mommies-toonies-corpies-goonies 0707 m8m8m8 |
|
CCP FoxFour
C C P C C P Alliance
336
|
Posted - 2012.08.14 14:43:00 -
[12] - Quote
Louis deGuerre wrote:Modualted vs modulated (text) Spriral vs spiral (sheet) those ain't real words. Even if it was 'spiral' it would be a pretty poor choice. Also, when can we finally include pictures on forums ? To be honest, I never understood lasers well with their 3 categories instead of 2 like the rest. So basically anything will be an improvement for me.
Thank you for pointing that out.
I have fixed the Modualted typo and updated the spreadsheet picture to be Gatling.
http://i.imgur.com/wQ8MK.png Content Designer | Team Five 0 @regnerBA |
|
|
CCP FoxFour
C C P C C P Alliance
337
|
Posted - 2012.08.14 14:45:00 -
[13] - Quote
Syndic Thrass wrote:I don't think anyone has any qualms about fixing everything to fit one naming scheme. When prop mods and shield hardeners changed, it was a slight annoyance for like 30 minutes then it was just as good as always. One thing to keep in mind is making stuff easy to search for on the market though. Like when I'm fitting up a Drake (for example) and I want 3 kinds of hardeners, its nice to be able to type "field ii" and they all pop up. making it (prefix) Electron Blaster II or whatever would be p cool just because that would make navigating the market in general easier.
In this case the nice thing is if you search for "pulse i" or "pulse ii" you will get all pulse lasers. They won't be filtered by size in this case, but yes.
Kinda makes me want to put "i" on the end of all the faction/officer/storyline weapons... Content Designer | Team Five 0 @regnerBA |
|
Corelin
The Fancy Hats Corporation Kraken.
10
|
Posted - 2012.08.14 14:47:00 -
[14] - Quote
Fix them for all's sake. I just rolled a new toon to try out the new tutorials and for the love of everything the names confuse the heck out of my still. Thankfully I can just use T2 anything these days so I don't have to learn stuff. For new players figuring out what is what can be ridiculous. |
Chimpy B
The Philosophy Of Two
4
|
Posted - 2012.08.14 14:48:00 -
[15] - Quote
A consistent naming convention over weapon types would be fab. I've been playing a while and I still have to look up the meta level on weapons. Tbh I like the Upgraded, Limited etc.. thing, perhaps just use that for weapons too. Less to remember.
I'd like it so if I saw the word "prototype" in the name, I'd know it was meta level 4. |
MailDeadDrop
Rage and Terror Against ALL Authorities
69
|
Posted - 2012.08.14 14:48:00 -
[16] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote: We then have (not looking at faction) 5 basic versions of those: Blaster I Anode Particle Cannon I Limited Blaster I Modal Particle Accelerator I Regulated Phase Cannon I Blaster II
Erm, you must be a real programmer. Off-by-one error detected. (6 versions, right?)
"Modualted" is an obvious typo (modulated).
"Spriral" looks like a typo, but it appears many times so perhaps it is a mis-comprehension on the part of the author and should be "spiral". I agree with others that even as "spiral" it is somewhat awkward. A modest suggestion: "polarized".
I admire your gumption FoxFour; attacking the laser naming morass takes spunk.
Edit: I see that FoxFour has fixed it already.
MDD |
Sakari Orisi
The Dark Space Initiative
42
|
Posted - 2012.08.14 14:48:00 -
[17] - Quote
As someone actually writing a fitting tool (aka, I will get issues with this in pyfa):
I like it.
However, wouldn't it be better to do everything in one big swoop ? That'd mean we (=app developpers / KB maintainers / etc.) get to deal with **** once and then get it over with instead of having to do it every expansion again and again when another set of modules gets renamed. |
Gilbaron
Free-Space-Ranger Ev0ke
308
|
Posted - 2012.08.14 14:50:00 -
[18] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:Salpun wrote:Siyis Rholh wrote:What does spriral even mean? :D It doesn't sound bad, but yeah. Its better then spinning Can't be anything like faint becouse that would sound like they are the worst ones. On with the name suggestions. Foxfour do you have a list of names that content thinks would work so we can vote? I think the other one on the list was Strobe...
obviously better than gatling or spiral
could not find a better picture, but this is what i imagine when i hear spiral laser
and fix the goddamn "limited" it sounds like "this is a bad thing, dont use it !!" |
|
CCP FoxFour
C C P C C P Alliance
337
|
Posted - 2012.08.14 14:50:00 -
[19] - Quote
MailDeadDrop wrote:CCP FoxFour wrote: We then have (not looking at faction) 5 basic versions of those: Blaster I Anode Particle Cannon I Limited Blaster I Modal Particle Accelerator I Regulated Phase Cannon I Blaster II
Erm, you must be a real programmer. Off-by-one error detected. (6 versions, right?) "Modualted" is an obvious typo (modulated). "Spriral" looks like a typo, but it appears many times so perhaps it is a mis-comprehension on the part of the author and should be "spiral". I agree with others that even as "spiral" it is somewhat awkward. A modest suggestion: "polarized". I admire your gumption FoxFour; attacking the laser naming morass takes spunk. MDD
It only appears so many times because the beauty of spreadsheets is changing one field and them all changing. Turns out it can also be a bad thing. Not sure how no one here, or from the CSM forum, noticed this. >< Whatever, no big deal. I have updated the sheet to refer to them as Gatling as people seem to prefer that, which is fine by me. :)
Content Designer | Team Five 0 @regnerBA |
|
|
CCP FoxFour
C C P C C P Alliance
337
|
Posted - 2012.08.14 14:51:00 -
[20] - Quote
Sakari Orisi wrote:As someone actually writing a fitting tool (aka, I will get issues with this in pyfa):
I like it.
However, wouldn't it be better to do everything in one big swoop ? That'd mean we (=app developpers / KB maintainers / etc.) get to deal with **** once and then get it over with instead of having to do it every expansion again and again when another set of modules gets renamed.
Depends how long this discussion takes and how much I can squeeze in. I don't want to promise more than I am sure I can deliver so for now lasers! Content Designer | Team Five 0 @regnerBA |
|
|
Jace Errata
Lawlz Brawlz
249
|
Posted - 2012.08.14 14:51:00 -
[21] - Quote
I still think "limited" is kind of a silly name if the idea is to imply that it's better. When I was picking blasters for a frigate once, I chose Limited blasters, and because of the name coupled with the decreased PG/CPU requirements, I assumed they were weaker.
...Actually, all the new names make them sound unstable/untested/less-good. I vote we use Upgraded, Overcharged (or Extended in the case of projectiles), Enhanced, and Bespoke.
Other than that all good :) Stealth OST puns and blatant lies since 2009 Jace Errata on Twitter
One day they woke me up so I could live forever It's such a shame the same will never happen to you |
Gilbaron
Free-Space-Ranger Ev0ke
308
|
Posted - 2012.08.14 14:54:00 -
[22] - Quote
oh, and on a side note (hold your breath, NDA breach incoming):
dust uses advanced and prototype as names for for higher level weapons, would be awesome if there was at least some consistency between the two games in that regard |
Syndic Thrass
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
138
|
Posted - 2012.08.14 14:54:00 -
[23] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:Syndic Thrass wrote:I don't think anyone has any qualms about fixing everything to fit one naming scheme. When prop mods and shield hardeners changed, it was a slight annoyance for like 30 minutes then it was just as good as always. One thing to keep in mind is making stuff easy to search for on the market though. Like when I'm fitting up a Drake (for example) and I want 3 kinds of hardeners, its nice to be able to type "field ii" and they all pop up. making it (prefix) Electron Blaster II or whatever would be p cool just because that would make navigating the market in general easier. In this case the nice thing is if you search for "pulse i" or "pulse ii" you will get all pulse lasers. They won't be filtered by size in this case, but yes. Kinda makes me want to put "i" on the end of all the faction/officer/storyline weapons...
Yeah, I seem to remember (perhaps in my imagination) that some of the meta small blasters had "I" after them then randomly others didn't. This affects all of absolutely nothing in the game but its just a random inconsistency. And yeah, consistent names would be p cool but I'm just trying to say keep in mind that most of us are lazy faggots who don't want to type "gatling modal pulse laser" or "experimental 10mn microwarpdrive" I love that whenever I need a prop mod now I just type "1mn m" or "1mn a" and then I have all the frig sized ABs/MWDs pop up. If you're going about fixing names, please make sure its as easy as possible for me to be as worthless and lazy as possible. While we're on the subject, this may not be your team, but for the love of God separate the Browse and Search bars again.
Reguards, Iskies-mommies-toonies-corpies-goonies 0707 m8m8m8 |
Syndic Thrass
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
138
|
Posted - 2012.08.14 14:58:00 -
[24] - Quote
Jace Errata wrote:I still think "limited" is kind of a silly name if the idea is to imply that it's better. When I was picking blasters for a frigate once, I chose Limited blasters, and because of the name coupled with the decreased PG/CPU requirements, I assumed they were weaker.
...Actually, all the new names make them sound unstable/untested/less-good. I vote we use Upgraded, Overcharged (or Extended in the case of projectiles), Enhanced, and Bespoke.
Other than that all good :)
Meta 2-4 weapons are "less good" than T2.
Reguards, Iskies-mommies-toonies-corpies-goonies 0707 m8m8m8 |
Cameron Zero
Red Federation
87
|
Posted - 2012.08.14 14:59:00 -
[25] - Quote
Quote:Keep it likes this?
TYPO: "likes"?
Aside from that, I'm all for weapons getting their names sorted. It'll also be nice to know a "modal whatever" is the same meta level small laser as it would be medium or large, instead of how it is now. "I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser Gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. GǪ" |
Bloodpetal
Mimidae Risk Solutions
786
|
Posted - 2012.08.14 15:01:00 -
[26] - Quote
I REALLY dislike the UPgraded, Limited, blah, blah. I REALLY dislike it a LOT.
The reason is because then EVERYTHING sounds the same for meta level, and it really strips the soul out of it all. As well the naming scheme is REALLY unhelpful in every way to designate anything in terms of superiority. Yes, I understand that sometimes it can get sometimes overly complicated, but for each weapon type let them stand out and be a bit unique. I do agree that some of the Modal's confuse across the various types of weapons and those things should be addressed.
SO, please, please, please do not use the Upgraded, Limited, Prototype scheme for the weapon hardpoints. I'm really tired of seeing this scheme used.
Rename all the "Medium Pulse Lasers" to "Small Pulse Lasers" so people know they're not MEDIUM sized weapons (Which was super dumb). And make those necessary adjustments. Tweak some of the weapon meta types such as 'Scout' railguns and 'Scout' autocannons being the same meta type, or so on.
If you want to add a meta descriptor to stuff, reconsider using the 'I' at the end of all the modules and put a meta number, i.e. Dual Afocal Pulse Laser M1 Dual Modal Pulse Laser M2 Dual Anode Pulse Paricle Stream M3 etc
Thanks for listening. Mimidae Risk Solutions Recruiting |
Lorl Rofeller
PonyWaffe Test Alliance Please Ignore
1
|
Posted - 2012.08.14 15:01:00 -
[27] - Quote
Personally, I would get rid of the "I"s on the end of the meta variants too. |
Syndic Thrass
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
138
|
Posted - 2012.08.14 15:01:00 -
[28] - Quote
Gilbaron wrote:oh, and on a side note (hold your breath, NDA breach incoming):
dust uses advanced and prototype as names for for higher level weapons, would be awesome if there was at least some consistency between the two games in that regard
You are literally ********, both for breaking your NDA then calling yourself on it preemptively, and because there are Advanced 'Limos" Heavy Missile Bays and Prototype 'Arbalest' Heavy Missile Bays, Eve uses those prefixes too. Way to breach your NDA for nothing m8! o7o7
Reguards, Iskies-mommies-toonies-corpies-goonies 0707 m8m8m8 |
Akrasjel Lanate
Black Thorne Corporation Black Thorne Alliance
756
|
Posted - 2012.08.14 15:02:00 -
[29] - Quote
You want to standardize everything in this game. |
Harrigan VonStudly
The Generic Pirate Corporation Fusion.
31
|
Posted - 2012.08.14 15:03:00 -
[30] - Quote
The proposed names in the list looks pretty common sensical to me. THe only thing that doesn't seem to fit, at least for me, is the proposed names for the 'focused' type. Currently they are a medium small weapon. A more powerful version of smalls, if you will. Right? But the proposed name does not indicate that. Albeit medium as it is currently can be confusing especially since there is a medium size for cruisers/bc's.
As for a suggest clarifying change to what is proposed I have no answer yet. |
|
|
|
|
Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 .. 11 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |