Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5 6 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Damien Khan
|
Posted - 2010.12.30 16:25:00 -
[1]
One of the biggest problems with eve's PVP sytem right now is that there are just too many tools players have at their disposal to dictate engagements. Everything from local as an intel tool, to session timers/station games, and more, only serve to make PVP not happen. This is supposed to be the most hardcore PVP MMO on the market right now, but you can go DAYS without getting a single kill no matter how hard you look because people will always avoid fights unless they're guaranteed to win with no losses.
I've gone out looking for fights in smallish 3-5 man gangs every night for the past week and the only engagements we got were when we were blobbed by groups of 30 or more, or covert ops ganked. EVERYTHING else docked up/cloaked up the second we appeared in local or tried to play station games with us. We were even willing to fight while outnumbered 2:1 as long as we had a chance of taking a few of them out before we died, but even with even odds or odds that were only slightly in their favor they would not engage.
So, my question is. Where is the PvP? Where are the fights that aren't horribly one-sided and over before they began?
|
Anubis Xian
Word Bearers of Chaos
|
Posted - 2010.12.30 16:28:00 -
[2]
Eve is 99% bots and carebears today. The rest of us just feed them kills because we don't run away.
Originally by: CCP Oveur The client handles no logic, it is simply a dumb terminal.
|
Shizuken
Caldari
|
Posted - 2010.12.30 16:47:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Damien Khan Where are the fights that aren't horribly one-sided and over before they began?
So you were just going to pass on a fight where it was 5 of you one 1 dude just because it was too lopsided? Fights like the one you mention above only happen in real life inside a ring and are heavily promoted. That is the difference between sport and real life. In unregulated events one side is always looking for as big an advantage as it can get over the other side. They will strike when the terms are favorable to them, and often without warning. If you had your way all you would do is commit those wishing to avoid PvP (us carebears I mean) to an endless playtime of getting our **** blown up so you can satisfy some immature desire to demonstrate you are "better" than someone else. Not everyone plays this game for that reason and to transform it into a platform for only those type of players would be unfair to others.
|
CF ProctoR
Utopian Research I.E.L. Hedonistic Imperative
|
Posted - 2010.12.30 16:51:00 -
[4]
It's not an arcade game so yeah, many people avoid fights. Just like IRL. There are those who'd be willing to pick a fight while many people would just disappear if they could.
Perfectly normal.
|
Damien Khan
|
Posted - 2010.12.30 16:52:00 -
[5]
Originally by: ****uken
Originally by: Damien Khan Where are the fights that aren't horribly one-sided and over before they began?
So you were just going to pass on a fight where it was 5 of you one 1 dude just because it was too lopsided? Fights like the one you mention above only happen in real life inside a ring and are heavily promoted. That is the difference between sport and real life. In unregulated events one side is always looking for as big an advantage as it can get over the other side. They will strike when the terms are favorable to them, and often without warning. If you had your way all you would do is commit those wishing to avoid PvP (us carebears I mean) to an endless playtime of getting our **** blown up so you can satisfy some immature desire to demonstrate you are "better" than someone else. Not everyone plays this game for that reason and to transform it into a platform for only those type of players would be unfair to others.
Honestly I don't give a crap about you carebears. I want to mix it up with the other combat pilots. And if killboards were somehow altered/modified in a way so that kills involving non-combat ships weren't counted, I'd be all that much happier because I believe it would promote more _active_ combat and not as much one-sided ganking. I want fights, not ganks.
|
Jovan Geldon
Gallente Lead Farmers Kill It With Fire
|
Posted - 2010.12.30 16:53:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Damien Khan people will always avoid fights unless they're guaranteed to win
Well, duh. Would you willingly go into a fight you know you going to lose?
|
Dante Marcellus
Minmatar Belligerent Underpayed Tactical Team
|
Posted - 2010.12.30 16:55:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Jovan Geldon
Originally by: Damien Khan people will always avoid fights unless they're guaranteed to win
Well, duh. Would you willingly go into a fight you know you going to lose?
Did that yesterday :D And if you're reading this, you've fallen into a signature trap. You owe me 1m ISK. |
Damien Khan
|
Posted - 2010.12.30 17:04:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Jovan Geldon
Originally by: Damien Khan people will always avoid fights unless they're guaranteed to win
Well, duh. Would you willingly go into a fight you know you going to lose?
Because honestly, this is a game. You get no monetary reward from it IRL, you get no improved quality of life, no concrete reward, so why not fight for fun? You get no REAL reward from winning and you get no REAL loss for losing. So where is the benefit to anyone for avoiding fights completely? What is the difference from the gamer's perspective in farming missions in a Raven and only engaging fights you couldn't possibly lose? I can't tell.
|
Vmir Gallahasen
Gallente United Mining And Distribution
|
Posted - 2010.12.30 17:05:00 -
[9]
Had the same problem as you, OP. Moved into WH space. Fun returned. There are some ganks of course, a lot of what's out there is PvE'ers, but you can turn it into a good fight with some strategy and a good scout
|
Borun Tal
Minmatar Space Pods Inc
|
Posted - 2010.12.30 17:07:00 -
[10]
If you don't like the game, the door is that way. ----->
0/10
|
|
Joe Skellington
Minmatar JOKAS Industries Apocalypse Now.
|
Posted - 2010.12.30 17:09:00 -
[11]
What a bunch of crap, of course you get benefit. I believe there are real life market analysts looking at how the EVE economy works. You have relationships in game. Just because it's a "game" doesn't mean you don't learn lessons from it.
Originally by: Damien Khan
Originally by: Jovan Geldon
Originally by: Damien Khan people will always avoid fights unless they're guaranteed to win
Well, duh. Would you willingly go into a fight you know you going to lose?
Because honestly, this is a game. You get no monetary reward from it IRL, you get no improved quality of life, no concrete reward, so why not fight for fun? You get no REAL reward from winning and you get no REAL loss for losing. So where is the benefit to anyone for avoiding fights completely? What is the difference from the gamer's perspective in farming missions in a Raven and only engaging fights you couldn't possibly lose? I can't tell.
|
Borun Tal
Minmatar Space Pods Inc
|
Posted - 2010.12.30 17:10:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Vmir Gallahasen ...but you can turn it into a good fight with some strategy and a good scout
OP doesn't want strategy, he wants Duke Nukem in space (ie, fps from start to finish).
|
Damien Khan
|
Posted - 2010.12.30 17:12:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Damien Khan on 30/12/2010 17:16:48
Originally by: Borun Tal
Originally by: Vmir Gallahasen ...but you can turn it into a good fight with some strategy and a good scout
OP doesn't want strategy, he wants Duke Nukem in space (ie, fps from start to finish).
No, I do want strategy. Strategy is how you win when outnumbered. This even takes the strategy out, though. That's my problem. There are no fights. When the only strategy involved is keeping a guy who's a free kill anyway from running away and getting him to take your bait and committing suicide, that's not strategy or tactics.
EDIT: Let me rephrase. When was the last time you were involved in a PVP engagement where you actually mattered? When was the last time you were on a killmail where the fight would have gone a completely different way if you weren't there to contribute what you did to the gang? I'll bet those situations are few and far between. Now let me ask you. As a PVPer, how are you honestly supposed to feel knowing that all you really ever do is killmail *****? When you don't contribute enough to really affect the outcome, that's really all you're doing. I want to look at the kills I'm on and know that it was _me_ who made it happen. If I'm not, why am I even there? What is my purpose for being involved?
|
Joe Skellington
Minmatar JOKAS Industries Apocalypse Now.
|
Posted - 2010.12.30 17:12:00 -
[14]
Yep, we have the WoW generation here folks. Let's get a Super Mario cart game mechanic going? **** that noise.
Originally by: Borun Tal
Originally by: Vmir Gallahasen ...but you can turn it into a good fight with some strategy and a good scout
OP doesn't want strategy, he wants Duke Nukem in space (ie, fps from start to finish).
|
Babel
Utopian Research I.E.L. Hedonistic Imperative
|
Posted - 2010.12.30 17:13:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Damien Khan Honestly I don't give a crap about you carebears. I want to mix it up with the other combat pilots.
To coin a well used phrase; 'Post with your Main' .... then we can peruse your Killboard history and discover whether you ever go after 'carebears' or just look for engagements with combat pilots ;) . All generalisations are false - Discuss.
|
Spurty
Caldari D00M. Northern Coalition.
|
Posted - 2010.12.30 17:14:00 -
[16]
Having too many 'other' venues to occupy your time in this game means not much time is left for pvp.
- Markets (You can get lost in there) - Politics (EMO ALERT!) - PVE (Yawn) - Exploration (Yawn) - There's hostiles 5 jumps away? Too far, one of my 999999 blues will probably get them. - Sooner play with EFT - Warp core stabs (I found pvp, however they just warp away)
HUGE NAPS, laziness, distractions and nullification all add up to be big killers of PVP.
Hoppit!
|
Alexandra Delarge
Gallente The Korova
|
Posted - 2010.12.30 17:15:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Borun Tal
Originally by: Vmir Gallahasen ...but you can turn it into a good fight with some strategy and a good scout
OP doesn't want strategy, he wants Duke Nukem in space (ie, fps from start to finish).
You have missed the point the OP is making. Also, your losses on BC suggest you are in no way qualified to talk about PvP. |
Sean Faust
Gallente Point of No Return Waterboard
|
Posted - 2010.12.30 17:20:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Babel
Originally by: Damien Khan Honestly I don't give a crap about you carebears. I want to mix it up with the other combat pilots.
To coin a well used phrase; 'Post with your Main' .... then we can peruse your Killboard history and discover whether you ever go after 'carebears' or just look for engagements with combat pilots ;)
Ask and ye shall receive. =)
You will see I have been mostly inactive lately as I am taking some time off to attempt to write a book. You will also see that a great deal of my kills were solo kills in Taranises. One of my favorite things to do in the game is attempt to solo entire gate camps in a Taranis just to see how many of their light tacklers I can take on before I go down. That's really the only thrill I get from PVP anymore, committing suicide and seeing how many I can take down with me.
|
Syn Callibri
Minmatar 21st Eridani Lighthorse Broken Chains Alliance
|
Posted - 2010.12.30 17:22:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Damien Khan One of the biggest problems with eve's PVP sytem right now is that there are just too many tools players have at their disposal to dictate engagements. Everything from local as an intel tool, to session timers/station games, and more, only serve to make PVP not happen. This is supposed to be the most hardcore PVP MMO on the market right now, but you can go DAYS without getting a single kill no matter how hard you look because people will always avoid fights unless they're guaranteed to win with no losses.
I've gone out looking for fights in smallish 3-5 man gangs every night for the past week and the only engagements we got were when we were blobbed by groups of 30 or more, or covert ops ganked. EVERYTHING else docked up/cloaked up the second we appeared in local or tried to play station games with us. We were even willing to fight while outnumbered 2:1 as long as we had a chance of taking a few of them out before we died, but even with even odds or odds that were only slightly in their favor they would not engage.
So, my question is. Where is the PvP? Where are the fights that aren't horribly one-sided and over before they began?
W.O.W. is that way.
Commander Tac-Ops |
WarlockX
Amarr Free Trade Corp
|
Posted - 2010.12.30 17:30:00 -
[20]
Wow ppl like the OP annoy me for being so ignorant. People do that because it's human nature. You cannot invent a game that goes against human nature because it's not something you can program. Yes ofcourse they run away from fights they won't win that's what humans do! It has nothing to do with EVE at all, you are infact complaining about humans as a race. The only time humans will fight when they know they will lose is if there is no penalty for dying. Also if you go over to wow you'll actually see that even when there is no penalty people STILL RUN away unless they know they are going to win.
So in fact what you are whining about is beyond pointless because noone can ever change it. ----------------------------------------------- Free Trade Corp - Flash page
|
|
Borun Tal
Minmatar Space Pods Inc
|
Posted - 2010.12.30 17:31:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Alexandra Delarge You have missed the point the OP is making.
No, there wasn't much point to be had in OP's post. He clearly wants even fights, but guess what? Hasn't been like that in years. It's EASY to find a fight; not so easy to find an equal fight. As someone else said, go to null. Plenty of fights out there, but despite OP's willingness to take on gatecamps (his words), he doesn't want to risk getting blobbed. Tough cookies.
I saw kills (and got killed) regularly on my FW and RVB toons. But you're quite right: this toon has virtually ZERO pvp experience (ie, the much beloved kill mails). But then, this is the ONLY toon on my ONLY account, so it MUST be my own personal experience, right? Fool.
|
1ee7W4rr10z
|
Posted - 2010.12.30 17:36:00 -
[22]
Stop crying and give me your stuff already...
There is no point in replied to you with a real answer as you won't accepted it.
but in short, alot of 'pvpers' are more conserned about their killboard effciency that large ganks are the only way.
deal with it and move on..
|
Damien Khan
|
Posted - 2010.12.30 17:36:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Borun Tal
Originally by: Alexandra Delarge You have missed the point the OP is making.
No, there wasn't much point to be had in OP's post. He clearly wants even fights, but guess what? Hasn't been like that in years. It's EASY to find a fight; not so easy to find an equal fight. As someone else said, go to null.
1. I live in null
2. I never said I wanted even fights, just that I wanted fights, which implies that there is some, however small, chance for victory. Doesn't have to be even or tipped in my favor. I'll gladly fight under a handicap as long as the odds aren't so overwhelming in either favor that the outcome is not a foregone conclusion. Foregone outcome of fight = booooooring, waste of time.
|
Anubis Xian
Word Bearers of Chaos
|
Posted - 2010.12.30 17:44:00 -
[24]
Eve pvp was more fun before T2 and caps.
Originally by: CCP Oveur The client handles no logic, it is simply a dumb terminal.
|
Damien Khan
|
Posted - 2010.12.30 17:52:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Anubis Xian Eve pvp was more fun before T2 and caps.
I wasn't there then but I've heard stories. Saw a pvp video called deathforge1 bout a guy in a rifter taking on cruisers and the occasional BC. his ship was entirely t1 fitted. the video was well-done, but the most amazing thing about ti was that at one point they killed a cyclone in 3 rifters and actually made a big deal out of it. i would have loved to have been there for that. way more than the way it is now.
|
Opertone
Caldari World - of - Empire
|
Posted - 2010.12.30 17:52:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Damien Khan One of the biggest problems with eve's PVP sytem right now is that there are just too many tools players have at their disposal to dictate engagements. Everything from local as an intel tool, to session timers/station games, and more, only serve to make PVP not happen. This is supposed to be the most hardcore PVP MMO on the market right now, but you can go DAYS without getting a single kill no matter how hard you look because people will always avoid fights unless they're guaranteed to win with no losses.
I've gone out looking for fights in smallish 3-5 man gangs every night for the past week and the only engagements we got were when we were blobbed by groups of 30 or more, or covert ops ganked. EVERYTHING else docked up/cloaked up the second we appeared in local or tried to play station games with us. We were even willing to fight while outnumbered 2:1 as long as we had a chance of taking a few of them out before we died, but even with even odds or odds that were only slightly in their favor they would not engage.
So, my question is. Where is the PvP? Where are the fights that aren't horribly one-sided and over before they began?
quoted for truth
Interaction in space which is almost infinite is very difficult. So... it's easy to hide away, difficult to find someone.
The concept of star travel is totally wrong. The warp drive kills it, first you can run away at anytime. Second you never meet anyone while in warp. It becomes a game of Hundred thousand doors (cells, grid) and only 2-4 in out doors. Warp drive allows you to be anywhere, but you can only be spotted at the entrance doors, such as gates and stations. And the worst thing is that warp drive can only be shut down by 20-30 km warp jammer. So all fights naturally happen in that range or not happen at all, because either side would run away.
|
Professor Tarantula
Hedion University
|
Posted - 2010.12.30 17:53:00 -
[27]
All the 'hardcore PvP' players went a little overboard with shaming people over killmails, and now everyone is more afraid of a loss killmail than actually being blown up.
It's a combination of that and gate bottlenecks keeping people out of PvP areas, removing them would mean more targets wandering in from hisec, and more people just out to have fun. Having to account for gatecamps with every PvP fit and ship is extremely limiting for the solo player. Course the removal of gates would mean no more being spoonfed victims by parking on a gate for hours. Many people have grown fat on that and would fight it being removed like a fat kid trying to keep his lollipop from being taken away. But it would ultimately mean many, many, more targets in PvP areas. Solo and otherwise.
My Warmest Regards. Prof. Tarantula, Esq. |
Dass Gus
|
Posted - 2010.12.30 17:54:00 -
[28]
that why i vote for retourn to 15 km warp to minimal distance
|
Professor Tarantula
Hedion University
|
Posted - 2010.12.30 17:57:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Dass Gus that why i vote for retourn to 15 km warp to minimal distance
Making it easier to kill people means less people to kill. They aren't going to keep getting blown up just so you can have fun. They'll quit the game.
My Warmest Regards. Prof. Tarantula, Esq. |
Kalle Demos
Amarr Hysteria Nexus
|
Posted - 2010.12.30 17:59:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Spurty Having too many 'other' venues to occupy your time in this game means not much time is left for pvp.
- Markets (You can get lost in there) - Politics (EMO ALERT!) - PVE (Yawn) - Exploration (Yawn) - There's hostiles 5 jumps away? Too far, one of my 999999 blues will probably get them. - Sooner play with EFT - Warp core stabs (I found pvp, however they just warp away)
HUGE NAPS, laziness, distractions and nullification all add up to be big killers of PVP.
This tbh
Originally by: Kool StoryBro <---
Originally by: CCP Spitfire Spam post removed.
Random forum moments <0> |
|
|
|
|
Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5 6 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |