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Drykor
Minmatar Aperture Harmonics K162
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Posted - 2011.01.02 14:18:00 -
[31]
Sounds like a nice challenge.
--- Drykor - AHARM |
Rayaghuma
Caldari Caldari Navy Logistic-Support Division
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Posted - 2011.01.24 19:16:00 -
[32]
Would this ship any good to survive in a supporting role for a fleet with RR drones for armor and shield and some sentries and hobs for damage?
[Rattlesnake, Passive Defense Setup] Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II
Pithum A-Type Heat Dissipation Amplifier Pithum A-Type Heat Dissipation Amplifier Pithum A-Type Magnetic Scattering Amplifier Pithum A-Type Magnetic Scattering Amplifier Pithum A-Type Kinetic Deflection Amplifier Pithum A-Type Explosion Dampening Amplifier Large Shield Extender II
Caldari Navy Cruise Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Wrath Cruise Missile Caldari Navy Cruise Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Wrath Cruise Missile Caldari Navy Cruise Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Wrath Cruise Missile Caldari Navy Cruise Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Wrath Cruise Missile Drone Link Augmentor I Drone Link Augmentor I
Large Core Defence Field Purger II Large Core Defence Field Purger II Large Core Defence Field Purger II
Heavy Shield Maintenance Bot II x5 Heavy Armor Maintenance Bot II x5 Warden II x5 Hobgoblin II x5
It can even tank the hardest lvl 4 mission (full aggro from everything in mission) w/o going down below 30% shield and its absolutely passive tanking, so sanshas neuting is useless and have no effect. Disadvantage: Its very expensive. But with all the description of sanshas damage I wouldnt risk to do anything solo, but maybe it could be a good addition for a fleet? No clue, so Im asking...
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romek mablung
Caldari Perkone
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Posted - 2011.01.24 19:33:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Rayaghuma Would this ship any good to survive in a supporting role for a fleet with RR drones for armor and shield and some sentries and hobs for damage?
[Rattlesnake, Passive Defense Setup] Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II
Pithum A-Type Heat Dissipation Amplifier Pithum A-Type Heat Dissipation Amplifier Pithum A-Type Magnetic Scattering Amplifier Pithum A-Type Magnetic Scattering Amplifier Pithum A-Type Kinetic Deflection Amplifier Pithum A-Type Explosion Dampening Amplifier Large Shield Extender II
Caldari Navy Cruise Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Wrath Cruise Missile Caldari Navy Cruise Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Wrath Cruise Missile Caldari Navy Cruise Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Wrath Cruise Missile Caldari Navy Cruise Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Wrath Cruise Missile Drone Link Augmentor I Drone Link Augmentor I
Large Core Defence Field Purger II Large Core Defence Field Purger II Large Core Defence Field Purger II
Heavy Shield Maintenance Bot II x5 Heavy Armor Maintenance Bot II x5 Warden II x5 Hobgoblin II x5
It can even tank the hardest lvl 4 mission (full aggro from everything in mission) w/o going down below 30% shield and its absolutely passive tanking, so sanshas neuting is useless and have no effect. Disadvantage: Its very expensive. But with all the description of sanshas damage I wouldnt risk to do anything solo, but maybe it could be a good addition for a fleet? No clue, so Im asking...
Sutch fits will be suicided in a mess,what PUG fleets will b.Quite similar T2 rattlesnake (mine,ALL tank skills 5)died in Headquarters level Incursion warp-in in about 45 seconds.Site was in pristine state,no spawns triggered yet.I think badly triggered HQ site will eat carriers like bisquits,if they were allowed there.
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n00n3r
Caldari Malicious Destruction
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Posted - 2011.01.24 19:34:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Rayaghuma Would this ship any good to survive in a supporting role for a fleet with RR drones for armor and shield and some sentries and hobs for damage?
[Rattlesnake, Passive Defense Setup] Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II
Pithum A-Type Heat Dissipation Amplifier Pithum A-Type Heat Dissipation Amplifier Pithum A-Type Magnetic Scattering Amplifier Pithum A-Type Magnetic Scattering Amplifier Pithum A-Type Kinetic Deflection Amplifier Pithum A-Type Explosion Dampening Amplifier Large Shield Extender II
Caldari Navy Cruise Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Wrath Cruise Missile Caldari Navy Cruise Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Wrath Cruise Missile Caldari Navy Cruise Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Wrath Cruise Missile Caldari Navy Cruise Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Wrath Cruise Missile Drone Link Augmentor I Drone Link Augmentor I
Large Core Defence Field Purger II Large Core Defence Field Purger II Large Core Defence Field Purger II
Heavy Shield Maintenance Bot II x5 Heavy Armor Maintenance Bot II x5 Warden II x5 Hobgoblin II x5
It can even tank the hardest lvl 4 mission (full aggro from everything in mission) w/o going down below 30% shield and its absolutely passive tanking, so sanshas neuting is useless and have no effect. Disadvantage: Its very expensive. But with all the description of sanshas damage I wouldnt risk to do anything solo, but maybe it could be a good addition for a fleet? No clue, so Im asking...
drop all those named passive hardners for Photon + 2 Invuls, and add 2 more extenders and you are on the right track.
passive regen isn't going to be worth much in these sites... go with as big of buffer as you can.
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romek mablung
Caldari Perkone
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Posted - 2011.01.24 19:41:00 -
[35]
In Incursions,there fully applies generic EVE wisdom:dont fly,what you cant afford to loose!(TM PVP).Drakes!!!!Alot of them,buffered and one remote rep,if inshieldgang.(extenders instead purgers in rigs).Commandship boosting shields and dmg up.Reason,why incursion sites are hard,is omnidamage,and lowered resists/dps.Imagine doing sleepers C5-C6 sites with 50 % resists and half your dps cut out.
So:no tank/no tanking via ganking/no speedtank(all Tengus).Signature tanking-maybe,to certain amount,if in cruiser class ships(commandships/hacks/recons).
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caladoor
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Posted - 2011.01.24 19:47:00 -
[36]
We have been clearing the Vanguard sites on SISI. We are using a RR Battleship fleet. 3 Typhoons 2 Domi 1 Damnation this setup works very well in these sites. We are planning on scaling up our opreations for the larger sites. The tip in the OP about killing the Sansha cruisers first is dead on. They are the logistics and seem to provide bonuses and RR to the Sansha ships. Also if you kill the cruisers and frigs at the gates the BS will warp off if it gets enough range.
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Target Painter
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.01.24 20:50:00 -
[37]
Edited by: Target Painter on 24/01/2011 20:55:14
Originally by: Rayaghuma but maybe it could be a good addition for a fleet?f No clue, so Im asking...
Each Sansha frig can put out as much DPS as an entire L4 mission... and there will be times there are six of them on you. Keeping as low sig as possible is somewhat important (low sig in this case being under 500, which is where I believe their torpedoes sit for explosion radius).
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Mara Rinn
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Posted - 2011.01.24 23:10:00 -
[38]
I did a few scout sites in my Tengu, survived them pretty well. Thinking I was pretty well set up, I headed into a vanguard system to try some belt rats. Ouch! Once you have three rats neuting and jamming you at the same time, the invincible flag disappears and the Tengu behaves something like every other ship out there. Thankfully they weren't scramming at the same time, so I was able to bail out. -- [Aussie players: join ANZAC channel] |
Widemouth Deepthroat
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Posted - 2011.01.25 00:22:00 -
[39]
do the sansha gate camp in high sec?
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Mara Rinn
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Posted - 2011.01.25 00:49:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Widemouth Deepthroat do the sansha gate camp in high sec?
Not that I have seen. At this point I don't know if this is by design, or simply because I have been lucky enough to enter systems where gate camps have been cleared. -- [Aussie players: join ANZAC channel] |
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Lady Naween
Amarr Dark Steel Industries
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Posted - 2011.01.25 02:15:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Widemouth Deepthroat do the sansha gate camp in high sec?
Not that i have seen
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kggdhrtswwar
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Posted - 2011.01.25 09:41:00 -
[42]
Did they nerf the sansha on sisi with the new patch? They seem to do a lot less damage. Haven't seen any high sec gate camps but some of the null sec ones are bad. |
Nocturrne Solace
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Posted - 2011.01.25 11:19:00 -
[43]
CCP, what where you thinking?
We have enough lag and people shooting at us already. FFS, the servers can't even handle the fleet battles we have now...
I would prefer you trash this stupid incursion idea and focus your programmers on fixing the enormous list of bugs.
Congratulations, you just ruined the game.
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Watak Hunt
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Posted - 2011.01.25 11:54:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Nocturrne Solace CCP, what where you thinking?
We have enough lag and people shooting at us already. FFS, the servers can't even handle the fleet battles we have now...
I would prefer you trash this stupid incursion idea and focus your programmers on fixing the enormous list of bugs.
Congratulations, you just ruined the game.
Dude! Chillax. Incursions will only hit a few constellations at a time. If you don't like them or have hardware issues then just avoid them.
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Jill'iam
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Posted - 2011.01.25 16:02:00 -
[45]
I smell T3 BS's around the corner. I have a feeling they'll now have a use if CCP brings them ingame...
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romek mablung
Caldari Perkone
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Posted - 2011.01.25 18:04:00 -
[46]
As i said,Incursions arent to take lightly.And dont fly expensive!....me takes ciggy and enjoys firework(unsuspectful players ships going booom).
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Mad Yojik
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Posted - 2011.01.25 18:05:00 -
[47]
Edited by: Mad Yojik on 25/01/2011 18:05:46 A question - does frig gang (3-5 fast T1 ships with T2 guns, like rifters) stands any chance on scout site, or its not worth even trying? I'm itching to look at this new Sanshas, but think travelling 22 jumps to get expensive BC/BS killed is a bit over me =).
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romek mablung
Caldari Perkone
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Posted - 2011.01.25 18:15:00 -
[48]
Edited by: romek mablung on 25/01/2011 18:16:02 Most probably not,by my testserver experiences.I managed to speedtank with full snake sets in interceptor entire HQ site though.....orbiting warp-in beacon at 75 km lowest(lower then that and dmg will come in,plus possible webs ect).But as Incursion sanshas switch focus-you cant tank real long that way,while others have easy way.AND OH MY MAN,HOW THEY HATE ECM!!!!!!!My rook got almost instapopped,asap i tryed ECM 5-6 sanshas,had no aggro before.
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Rustynail79
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Posted - 2011.01.25 19:37:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Mad Yojik Edited by: Mad Yojik on 25/01/2011 18:05:46 A question - does frig gang (3-5 fast T1 ships with T2 guns, like rifters) stands any chance on scout site, or its not worth even trying? I'm itching to look at this new Sanshas, but think travelling 22 jumps to get expensive BC/BS killed is a bit over me =).
I've found assault frigs to be the best thing to use so far in high sec incursions. What ever you do dont use anything big as the sanash frigs use torps and the bigger the ship they're shooting at the more damage it takes. Seriously i've seen all sorts of faction ships RRBS gangs and other exspensive ships get absoloutly blown away today while my Hawk lived and went on to claim the prize. Tactic wise get everyone to primary one target at a time and setup tags to list the targets in order so you can concentrate fire. Then if you get primaried yourself point yourself in the complete oppossite direction and MWD untill either its safe or if under heavy fire your out of warp disruptor range and can warp out.
Note: Only use the MWD like its says above to get away or in quick burst to move around or you will die horribly as it blows up your sig to the size of a BS and you take full damge of the torp frigs.
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Cresalle
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Posted - 2011.01.26 09:25:00 -
[50]
Edited by: Cresalle on 26/01/2011 09:30:33 So...
CCP is of the opinion that hisec bears can put together a competent 30 man pvp fleet with a spider tank.
Whoops!
Anyway, there were some folks doing the incursion in Algintal and they were spider tanking and one of them got the idea to call for reps and then start shooting everyone in the fleet. Whole fleet dies and the dude gets massive killmails. (This man, whoever he is, is my personal hero.)
And all the while I'm sitting here wondering why it is that hisec incursions give lower rewards than losec and nulsec.
So the way I see it:
* You can't do incursions in hisec because rr is required and someone will get the fleet concorded. (Groups large enough to form fleets composed of trusted members do not live in hisec.) * You can't do it in losec because nobody f***ing goes to losec except for pirates and militiamen. I know from experience that certain militias (*cough-minmatar-cough*) can't manage more than a 30 man frig gang once a week, and being at war with half the game is not really an optimal time for group pve with half your stats. The pirates are going to fail at ganking incursion runners at first but after a few weeks they'll be all over it, believe me. * You can't do it in nulsec because when your enemies see an incursion in your space you'd damn well better believe that they're going to come visit.
On top of that the rewards system is... Well... I guess the right term would be 'bull****'. It's great that CCP wants us all to get along and hold hands and etc, etc, but even though all the bears in the world will deny it the simple truth remains:
NBSI is the only viable philosophy in EVE.
So the only way I really see incusrions working in hisec is through the establishment of one or more hisec alliances with the manpower and basic competency level of a decent nulsec alliance. The only problem is that if you can get together that many people with that level of skill then you may as well go to nulsec and suck on moon goo. In the time it takes for someone to finally get a revenant bpc you'll have made enough isk to buy 5 of them.
I doubt incursions will ever work in losec because the only thing that works in losec is gate camping.
As far as nulsec I suppose that eventually someone will get the bright idea of bubbling up and camping the gates and using the cyno-jam effect as an advantage to help keep out intruders long enough that the alliance can handle incursions without getting ganked. So when that happens you'll start to end up with the giant sov blobs being able to conquer the incursions. Oh joy! More advantages for the sov blobs! Yay! Let's give even more money and power to the people ruining EVE!
Screw it. I know where I'm gonna go...
WHO'S WITH ME!?!?
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Yves Nat
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.01.26 18:19:00 -
[51]
Just a note: Active Shield Tank ships will be destroyed in a few seconds after going through a gate into an Incursion site. ----------- I travel the spaceways, from planet to planet . . . and find stuff. |
romek mablung
Caldari Perkone
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Posted - 2011.01.26 19:21:00 -
[52]
Edited by: romek mablung on 26/01/2011 19:21:26 Armor is the king (hint:slave sets).Buffer proteus with 500 000 ehp for wins...
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Mara Rinn
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Posted - 2011.01.27 01:30:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Cresalle So the only way I really see incusrions working in hisec is through the establishment of one or more hisec alliances with the manpower and basic competency level of a decent nulsec alliance.
In "that fantasy MMO" we were putting together raiding guilds of 30 people to handle the 25-player raiding instances. I don't see why you'd need any more than double the maximum number of pilots per site in your raiding guilų sorry, hisec incursion PvE corporation.
Hisec incursion PvE corporations can schedule their playtimes, they don't have to have a 24 hour presence in order to fend off attacks from their neighbours.
-- [Aussie players: join ANZAC channel] |
bladeproject
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Posted - 2011.01.27 01:48:00 -
[54]
Originally by: romek mablung As i said,Incursions arent to take lightly.And dont fly expensive!....me takes ciggy and enjoys firework(unsuspectful players ships going booom).
Haha the amount of player wrecks in some of those sites was awsome..might as well just hang tight and start salvaging. I can imagine just how much cash is in that one. Providing you dont fall victim to the sansha yourself, then someone else gets to slvage your wreck.
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Trinkets friend
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Posted - 2011.01.27 05:19:00 -
[55]
To be honest, romek mablung gave you all plenty of warning, he told you what to expect (as did CCP). All this QQ is hilarious, because all it shows is that the hisec population are nothing more than dirty stinking carebear ISK farmers who have had it too easy for too long. The only challenge left in the game in hisec before Incursion was "how do I get my setele's cap recharger from 4-4 to Amarr in a hauler without being suicided" and "how many fat toys can I afford if I farm Blockade 4 for 40 hrs?". Not to say that carriers farming Sanctums in 0.0 is any more hardcore, but EVE in hisec is a solo experience in the main and a horribly boring, self-obsessive onanistic waste of gaming potential.
It's good to see something challenging crop up. The fact that 10K ships got vaped in PVE in hisec within 8 hours of Incursion going live shows that hisec dwellers have had it too easy for too long; even the newer players aren't learning anything about how to play the game, if you can solo level 4's within a few months and just accumulate ISK for no risk (and you can).
It is good that you have to team up. It is good that the rats are challenging. It is good that you have to learn to work together, follow an FC, organise and fit your ship properly, pay attention. The fact people lose bulk ships is simply because your average new player or hisec carebear L4 runner thinks what they do is hard (it is not) that a L4 mission has lots of DPS (it does not) that it doesn't matter if you just do whatever you want in a fleet (it does) and that you can solo anything if EFT says you have an OMGWTFBBQ tank (bzzzt!).
It is also good that people are losing ships by the thousands. People need to learn that taking risks, taking on a new challenge, will bring you together, make you eve friends, and reward you for playing a game, not just a process of trying to win at EVE by collecting the biggest and flashiest toys. IMHO, people who can take a challenge, learn, adapt and then overcome will get a lot more out of the game.
But you first have to learn. This starts by your average hisec mission runner realising s/he is lazy, selfish, incompetent and ignorant. Address those issues and even low-skilled people can contribute to Incursions, get some rewards, and have fun (which is a reward in itself).
That said....the rewards for Incursions are hopelessly misapprehended and very, very poorly structured for the risk you undertake.
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Mara Rinn
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Posted - 2011.01.27 05:49:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Trinkets friend It is good that you have to team up. It is good that the rats are challenging. It is good that you have to learn to work together, follow an FC, organise and fit your ship properly, pay attention.
I agree! Incursion style PvE is something I've been hoping CCP would introduce into the game for quite some time. I want more that what they've got now, of course, but let's see how much fun we can have with what we've got.
Originally by: Trinkets friend IMHO, people who can take a challenge, learn, adapt and then overcome will get a lot more out of the game ā the rewards for Incursions are hopelessly misapprehended and very, very poorly structured for the risk you undertake.
There are more rewards from partaking in group activities than simply getting more ISK or higher metalevel pixels. For some people there's the social interaction they don't normally get but really like once they have it. For others there's the reward of seeing that blue bar growing bigger as the capsuleers fight the incursions.
Eventually people will be farming incursions even easier than level 4 missions - there will be no more dock/complete/accept/undock. The reward seems to be suitably balanced for that eventuality.
As an aside, I sincerely hope that the experience with working in fleets to fight incursions is enough to get some "carebears" to try taking their incursion fleets out to lowsec to fight some stronger, smarter enemies.
-- [Aussie players: join ANZAC channel] |
Trinkets friend
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Posted - 2011.01.27 08:32:00 -
[57]
I hope they roll out sleeper AI across level 4 missions and anoms. It won't make much of a difference to most carebears soloing level 4's but it will prevent people AFKDomi'ing or AFK Ishtar/Carrier farming Sanctums in nullsec, because your precious load of Garde IIs will start to get popped.
You'll also not I did say that teamwork and completing a goal as a team is a reward in and of itself. I still maintain that the ISK rewards on offer are insufficient, too hard to get, and too easy to lose to a ninja fleet. If I were to do Incursions it would be via lurking the gate in a covops with scanner set to 100K kms, watching the rat wrecks turn up, until the site is nearly complete, then come in, ninja the completion rat, and steal the glory. As I am sure many, many others will do.
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