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Zelda Wei
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Posted - 2011.01.07 23:44:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Ticker Troon
Originally by: Greg Huff The market of EVE is actually very stable, especially when left alone. When CCP makes a change - PI, production material requirements, (re)spawn rates, loot drops, etc - the market has to rebalance itself.
QFT. Free-market economies are fairly stable until mucked about with.
Why is it that reasoned, rational posts like these get ignored while the emo posts get all the attention? :)
obvious sock puppet is obvious
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Gimboid
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.01.08 13:00:00 -
[32]
I think the main unmentioned issue here is simply that PI Isn't fun. Sure, some people get enjoyment out of [making isk from] PI, but the actual process isn't fun, they tried to copy the core features of Farmville and similar games, without realising that if people wanted to play those, they would.
If they actually did the revision they said they had planned on day one (which, was implied wouldn't be a long-way off since they were going to 'follow up on PI immediately') and make it less of an annoying clickfest grind.
They need to spend more time sitting down with new features, mechanic changes, playing with them and going "is this fun?" "Am I enjoying this?" "Will I enjoy doing this for the 100th time?" Sig removed for being unrelated to EVE. Zymurgist |
Maxx Overseer
Gallente Decrypt Enterprise
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Posted - 2011.01.08 16:06:00 -
[33]
I know it's off the wall, but does anyone here deliver pos fuel?
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Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
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Posted - 2011.01.08 17:01:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Maxx Overseer I know it's off the wall, but does anyone here deliver pos fuel?
Try the trades forums at the bottom of the forums.. WTS should have some fuel services listed in a sticky afaik. support Public Idea Tracker | 24hr PLEX |
notajitapricealt
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Posted - 2011.01.08 19:16:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Brock Nelson OP must be the only POS owner who doesn't do PI to offset the cost of fuel...
Jesus, your post makes my eyes bleed
Well I can't resist this one. You are obviously a high sec goer. If only you knew what it was like to manage my corps 400+ tower network. The monthly fuel bill costs more isk than you'll seen in years.
Back on track: Plenty of great discussion going on in this thread which is surprising to me. If the changes come through on sisi that make PI less of a click fist and it can run longer than a day without attention, I feel it will help lower the pos fuel costs a bit. It will never go back to the good old days but I'm hoping that more people will start doing it again. I have never done PI since I have towers to take care of 24/7 but at this point I get the impression even from my alliance mates that do it is it just got boring or they had their fill of it. So now with less people doing PI vs when it first came out I wonder how bad it can get in several more months.
Also if someone could educate me on this question...ALL materials like mechanical parts and coolant etc are produced on PI is it foreseeable that demand gets so great that there is no more commodities on the market?
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Lady Oxycontin
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Posted - 2011.01.08 19:46:00 -
[36]
Despite my very profitable network, I'm cutting back as the time involvement is too great and I basically have bought most of the stuff I want. The clicking just gets to you in a way that completely drains all the happiness from the game. It's like it was made for botting or ISK selling sites who use 3rd world labor.
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Greg Huff
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Posted - 2011.01.08 20:51:00 -
[37]
Originally by: notajitapricealt Also if someone could educate me on this question...ALL materials like mechanical parts and coolant etc are produced on PI is it foreseeable that demand gets so great that there is no more commodities on the market?
No, absolutely not. Because as supplies get lower and lower prices will continue to climb. Players will see the profitability to be had and fill the market gaps.
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roastduck
Gallente MerTeK
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Posted - 2011.01.08 21:08:00 -
[38]
PI in itself might be fun, and the click-fest is a bit of a soul-suck, but I'm making an extra 230 million a month. Having money is fun.
And I actually DID like Farmville. It's highly convenient now that I don't have to alt+tab out to Facebook to play it .
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Girtab Ra
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Posted - 2011.01.08 22:23:00 -
[39]
Comments please, but the way I see it on SISI right now, the proposed changes will further separate people that do/ want to do PI into either extractors or assemblers due to the power changes with the extractor control unit.
Those that just extract and use basic processors get a big jump in output say 30%. Yes extraction rates do increase (great for getting stuff out of the ground without as much clicking)ā
ābut I believe that it is making it harder to produce Refined Commodities (Coolant) and even harder to make Specialized Commodities (Robotics) on a single planet with one setup.
Is it just me, or does anyone else see it the same where it will be harder to work in this middle ground?
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Worgen Fratmon
Minmatar Instapop Industries
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Posted - 2011.01.08 22:41:00 -
[40]
Edited by: Worgen Fratmon on 08/01/2011 22:41:22
Originally by: Girtab Ra Comments please, but the way I see it on SISI right now, the proposed changes will further separate people that do/ want to do PI into either extractors or assemblers due to the power changes with the extractor control unit.
Those that just extract and use basic processors get a big jump in output say 30%. Yes extraction rates do increase (great for getting stuff out of the ground without as much clicking)ā
ābut I believe that it is making it harder to produce Refined Commodities (Coolant) and even harder to make Specialized Commodities (Robotics) on a single planet with one setup.
Is it just me, or does anyone else see it the same where it will be harder to work in this middle ground?
I see it too. I think that anything P2 and up will see anywhere between a 3-10% price increase once markets stabalize post-patch.
We may be in for a wild ride before stabilization. I can see the posibility of Robotics, alone, doubling in price (temporarily).
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Nikolai Kondratiev
Sphere Design Inc.
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Posted - 2011.01.09 01:51:00 -
[41]
Fuel prices are fine. Currently is costs 257-263m to keep a large tower running. And it was around 250m 2 months ago, not really any high enough difference to whine about it. _ Ore Table | PI Profits |
Taedrin
Gallente The Green Cross Sev3rance
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Posted - 2011.01.09 02:05:00 -
[42]
All you need to do is make more than 400k ISK per hour, and you have your costs covered. And that's on the SAFE side. ----------
Originally by: Dr Fighter "how do you know when youve had a repro accident"
Theres modules missing and morphite in your mineral pile.
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Steve Thomas
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.01.09 05:56:00 -
[43]
Edited by: Steve Thomas on 09/01/2011 05:58:36
Originally by: Girtab Ra Comments please, but the way I see it on SISI right now, the proposed changes will further separate people that do/ want to do PI into either extractors or assemblers due to the power changes with the extractor control unit.
Those that just extract and use basic processors get a big jump in output say 30%. Yes extraction rates do increase (great for getting stuff out of the ground without as much clicking)ā
ābut I believe that it is making it harder to produce Refined Commodities (Coolant) and even harder to make Specialized Commodities (Robotics) on a single planet with one setup.
Is it just me, or does anyone else see it the same where it will be harder to work in this middle ground?
Someone actualy sat down and worked out what the developers seem to have originaly planed with PI, the short version was they bascialy expected us to Extact with the low end comand centers, and process to higher levels with the top end processors. (its also obvious from some of the screenshots they showed that they did not expect us to "ICS spam" and pin stack the way we did)
To put it bluntly there minds were more or less frozen in the mode that you have people who mine and people who produce finished goods and thoes will never EVER be the same account , let alone the same individual pilot! literaly the LAST thing they expected us to try to do was to try and work the process from start to finish using as few alts as possible. Part of this was because what they had originaly planed was for each pin to be turned on individualy and create "polution" around it, depressing the output of nearby pins in order to force you to spread out to avoid polution overkill.(longer "roads" = Fewer pins in the first place) the workaround for that was to simply turn all of the pins on at once, they would instantly pop out "polution"/"deplete the local resouce" but by the time that had kickedin you were already sucking out at the max level, thus efectivly bypassing that bit.
they also ran into a problem in that trying to get the modle to do that was eating up more processing cycles than they had planed (in part due to us insisting on pinstacking in order to squeeeez out that last posible extractor) that led them to oversimplify the original modle to what we have now.
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notajitapricealt
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Posted - 2011.01.09 06:27:00 -
[44]
We'll I'm very pro market. I hope that its not interfered with other than by player actions. I know it sucks that my POS bill has doubled but I enjoy the market as is. I just hope that players don't keep the spiral of undercutting going on that the T2 market plummets so bad it makes a mini depression in these areas of the market. If that is even possible I guess.
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boiess
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Posted - 2011.01.09 07:46:00 -
[45]
I still stand by my original post. Its not working and needs to be looked at.
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Karn Velora
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Posted - 2011.01.09 13:26:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Steve Thomas Someone actualy sat down and worked out what the developers seem to have originaly planed with PI, the short version was they bascialy expected us to Extact with the low end comand centers, and process to higher levels with the top end processors. (its also obvious from some of the screenshots they showed that they did not expect us to "ICS spam" and pin stack the way we did)
To put it bluntly there minds were more or less frozen in the mode that you have people who mine and people who produce finished goods and thoes will never EVER be the same account , let alone the same individual pilot! literaly the LAST thing they expected us to try to do was to try and work the process from start to finish using as few alts as possible. Part of this was because what they had originaly planed was for each pin to be turned on individualy and create "polution" around it, depressing the output of nearby pins in order to force you to spread out to avoid polution overkill.(longer "roads" = Fewer pins in the first place) the workaround for that was to simply turn all of the pins on at once, they would instantly pop out "polution"/"deplete the local resouce" but by the time that had kickedin you were already sucking out at the max level, thus efectivly bypassing that bit.
they also ran into a problem in that trying to get the modle to do that was eating up more processing cycles than they had planed (in part due to us insisting on pinstacking in order to squeeeez out that last posible extractor) that led them to oversimplify the original modle to what we have now.
I can't test Singularity's new PI, becuase CCP botched the Mac build... but still, I think the correct comment is "surprise" or possibly "duh". Of course we do as much as possible on one single alt - **** on one single planet even!
Only thing about robotics that rubs me the wrong way right now, is how I in the end need to haul the T2 commodities around before I can assemble it into T3 robotics. Sooner or later, the processing has to be done SOMEWHERE, and planned right, it's no more wasteful to do it on each individual planet than it is to do it on a seperate factory planet.
I'm doing my PI in low sec for the higher yield, and bottom line is: the higher tier I refine my products to... - the less **** I have to haul around in a stupid industrial with pirates taking pot shots at me - the longer the colonies can run without filling up the storage space
How did they not see that coming? If you haul around T0 or T1 materials without being absolutely forced to - you are in need of brain surgery.
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Cergorach
Amarr The Helix Foundation
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Posted - 2011.01.09 18:06:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Karn Velora If you haul around T0 or T1 materials without being absolutely forced to - you are in need of brain surgery.
Actually, I find it far more efficient to haul around P1 products to dedicated factory planets then to try to make them P2 on the same planet. Tried that for a while with Enriched Uranium, it wasn't as profitable as dedicating the whole of the planet's resources to Precious metals and buy the Toxic metals from the market. Toxic metals is hauled into the system, I mine precious metals on a couple of planets, have a few dedicated factory planets and out Enriched Uranium comes, which is hauled out of the system and I pick up a fresh (cheap) batch of Toxic Metals.
I'm haven't touched the P3 materials because they were just not as profitable as some of the P2 materials. Also, in low-sec, cloaked transports are your friend. And if you've got a big haul, use an Orca (with cloak).
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Veliria
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Posted - 2011.01.10 08:54:00 -
[48]
18 days worth of POS fuel for my True Sansha Medium tower cost almost 100mil or so, le sigh, but it still brings in more ISK than it costs to keep running so I'll keep it. Still, fuel is lot more expensive than before...oh well...
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Darcon Kylote
Setenta Corp -Mostly Harmless-
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Posted - 2011.01.10 13:23:00 -
[49]
Originally by: boiess eventually everything on the market is going to go up as well hurting us all.
Try really hard... think about it... prices go up, everyone pays more, and the money goes to....? -- Terminal Impact is recruiting PVPers for fun ops in lowsec/0.0/wormhole space. Visit our website or join ingame channel "the tict pub". |
Cergorach
Amarr The Helix Foundation
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Posted - 2011.01.10 14:35:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Darcon Kylote
Originally by: boiess eventually everything on the market is going to go up as well hurting us all.
Try really hard... think about it... prices go up, everyone pays more, and the money goes to....?
The folks that are doing a lot of PI ;-)
I have three main income sources: - Datacores - Trading - PI
Trading isn't really affected, a percentage stays a percentage. DCs are affected (prices keep going down), but to be honest, it's currently less and less of my overall profit margin. So more expensive PI is good for my wallet, as more isk flows to me (and others like me) instead of going to folks who aren't doing PI. And while we'll see a rise in prices of certain items, they won't be as great an increase as the direct price rise of PI. You also have a different distribution of wealth.
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Transfer point
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Posted - 2011.01.16 00:47:00 -
[51]
Originally by: boiess Edited by: boiess on 07/01/2011 05:45:17 Edited by: boiess on 07/01/2011 05:44:46 By the time you factor in the other fuel its not profitable to mine any of the low to mid low end raw moon mineral. Ive also noticed that the low end mineral prices have actually dropped in price. Dont you think before the PI was introduced robotics seeded market price was just about 7,000 per unit. today its 9times higher. Is there anything you all can do to help lower the costs especially robotics and enriched uranium ? Maybe not make it so difficult to produce so more will acutally do it?
You need to look at doing other things with your POS then. Selling researched BPO's or selling BPC's will give you some more income. Also as stated by others, do your own PI. We have 2 large POS's to feed. 8 characters do PI, they make all the POS fuel and extra as well as doing right up to P4 production which gets rolled into Starbase Structure production which is easily an additional 120 Mil a month on slow months. Personally I don't want them to touch fuels and the upcoming changes look interesting.
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