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Taurin Herock
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Posted - 2011.01.10 21:52:00 -
[1]
There is a dirty little truth in Eve. Many of us know about its existence. A small few actually exploit it. In recent months its been an increasing topic of conversation in the eve community with articles on eve24 and forum threads in Kugutsman. This truth is the existence of players who use Bots and how potent is their effect upon the way we all play eve. I have a proposal that will first describe how the existence of Bots is a problem for all of us, and then go on to describe what I think is an elegant solution to fix the problem.
Why you should care about Bots: Bots come in three main "types". The most common are probably the Mining Bots. If you type "eve online Mining bot" into google it will produce thousands of hits. You will notice that there are several programs and a few software companies that charge $40 to buy a copy of their mining bot programs. If they can make a business selling this, they have probably sold their product more than a few hundred times. The links to free programs have been downloaded over ten thousand times... This tells me there are probably thousands or even tens of thousands of mining bots in eve right now. Messing around of EFT, you can get a single mining bot to easily generate 1500m3 per minute. At current jita prices running 23/7 mining veld that makes a billion isk/week. A solo miner in high sec can go largely unnoticed clearing the preferred belt or two daily. The sheer amount of minerals these players produce has an overwhelming effect on the mineral market. Most players who like mining find themselves discouraged that their minerals have so severely depressed value.
Perhaps more worrisome is the Ratting Bot who is positioned in a system with enough roid belts and simply claims bounties all day and night warping to belts and killing npc's. The people who sell these programs claim they generate 40mill isk/hr. That is about 900mill isk/day. This is a problem because it injects staggering amounts of isk into the eve economy, causing inflation and devaluing all the isk that everyone else (self included) works hard to get.
How to Stop Mining/Ratting Bots: The solution is very simple and stops ratting and mining bots at the same time. All you have to do is stop respawning roids in belts. When there are no roids left, the belt itself despawns. To provide the supply of minerals needed for the Eve economy, just increase the number of Grav sites by 10 times and make them easier to scan down (maybe higher sig stength). Without roid belts and an endless supply of npc's or roids that can be found using simple bookmarks, then bots will have a much harder time getting to the right places where you can mine or kill npc's.
From a storyline perspective, roid belts never made sense to me... You have these stories that suggesta mystique of mining for these roids, finding them and extracting them is a rare thing that makes you rich and drives you to take risks... but you have an endless supply of them that just re-appear every day? Also consider that every day Sansha (supposedly a genius mastermind) sends a few hundred thousand of his minions to these roid belts so that players can blast them and claim bounties? Same goes for all the other pirate factions.
The very idea that effectively limitless amounts of "rare" minerals appear every day in places around the universe and that hundreds of thousands of poorly equipped disorganized minions go to the same places to die every day in wave after wave after wave is silly.
Pro: Stops all ratting and mining bots.
Con: Requires mining characters to scan a sig or take a mission in order to mine.
Other: Encourages players to work together more, since the roids in mission spaces may be more desirable. Makes better "sense" from a story/setting perspective.
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Goose99
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Posted - 2011.01.10 22:27:00 -
[2]
It's been suggested before. Macros would just scan at the start of the day, bm, and leave macro running for 23 hours. It wouldn't actually solve anything.
The reason 90% of eve playerbase (highsec, carebear) don't care is because they were told all the grieving and tear farming is legitimate part of the game. Eve is the only mmo where this is the case. If they are forced to tolerate things that directly harm them, why would they rage about something that does so indirectly, in a intangible way? Bots in other mmos provoked far greater reactions in the user base precisely because of this.
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Aquila Draco
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Posted - 2011.01.10 22:38:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Aquila Draco on 10/01/2011 22:39:06 I support this!!!!!!!!! +1
this is something that i was thinking... :) and i think this shuld work... And i would add one more thing... maybe to make NPCs that guard belts faster, smarter, stronger and that they warp scramble... real ppl will need to put some extra defence on ships and use drones to kill them before warping out... ppl in smaller ships will warp out quicker then hulks so new players will be safe... or ppl will mine in groups with defance ship... if NPCs can warp scramble macros that will make them much less cost-effective becouse they will stuck in belts or be killed if they dont have defence at all...
P.S.
and about scaning in the morning and boting all day... well i think that it can easy be solved in the way that when there is no one left in the belt after some time the belt itself despawns and respawn on the other place and need to be scaned down again...
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Taurin Herock
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Posted - 2011.01.10 22:46:00 -
[4]
I thought about if macro's could scan, and it's a valid concern. It just seams that the scanning interface is substantially more complex than simply mining, so it would be more difficult (possibly even prohibitively difficult?) to automate the scanning process. More likely players would scan a site and set the macro to mine it while they are gone. But that is easily prevented by just not supplying a site with that much ore... If a standard high sec grav site has enough ore to keep one miner busy for 3 hrs then you won't be able to mine all day and night with one sig scanned in the morning after DT.
Not to mention that this suggestion of removing belts will completely eliminate all ratting bots, which generate enormous amounts of isk for the RMT world (according to recent interviews on evenews24).
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Ephemeron
The Dirty Dozen
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Posted - 2011.01.10 22:59:00 -
[5]
the easiest way to stop a botter in 0.0 is to put a cloaked alt in local
Can you imagine all of 0.0 bot free? make CCP put cloaked alt chars in every 0.0 system
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Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
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Posted - 2011.01.10 23:20:00 -
[6]
Dynamic Belts are a very old idea, CCP themselves have spoken about the possibility several years ago.
If you really want to mess up bots then make the sites small enough to keep a high rotation rate (exploration system for sites) so you have scan repeatedly throughout the day. Benefits of using the exploration system, besides the respawns, is that they will move around so there will no longer be a monster system with XX belts.
Adjust size of the sites to make it worthwhile for legitimate corps while at the same time acting as a wrench in the bot machinery (few hours worth for a Hulk should suffice per site).
Caveat: Bots will always be here. The best we can hope to do is make it as bothersome to program one as possible to cut down on their use.
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Mara Rinn
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Posted - 2011.01.10 23:37:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Mara Rinn on 10/01/2011 23:37:47
Originally by: Goose99 It's been suggested before. Macros would just scan at the start of the day, bm, and leave macro running for 23 hours. It wouldn't actually solve anything.
Your defeatism is showing.
If a miner bookmarks a site, who's to say that the site will still be there 10 hours later? Presumably other miners will be looking for grav sites too?
Otherwise, I agree with Hirana Yoshida. -- [Aussie players: join ANZAC channel] |
Voddick
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Posted - 2011.01.10 23:56:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Taurin Herock More likely players would scan a site and set the macro to mine it while they are gone. But that is easily prevented by just not supplying a site with that much ore... If a standard high sec grav site has enough ore to keep one miner busy for 3 hrs then you won't be able to mine all day and night with one sig scanned in the morning after DT.
Not to mention that this suggestion of removing belts will completely eliminate all ratting bots, which generate enormous amounts of isk for the RMT world (according to recent interviews on evenews24).
This is a great Idea. It solves BOTH problems and adds realism to the game. There is already a scanning tutorial and FREE skill books for it in said tutorial. There is really no excuse not to do this. 100% Supported.
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Bagehi
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises R.A.G.E
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Posted - 2011.01.10 23:59:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Bagehi on 11/01/2011 00:02:45 Having been on a few roams through neut/red 0.0 space, I don't think the scanning mechanic is beyond the capabilities of some bots. Either that or someone runs around and scans while his bots chew up the things he finds. Much of the suspected bot activity I have seen is in scanned sites.
Well, that and hauling missions. Definitely tons of bots running hauling missions. A couple friends and I harassed one hive of bots in low sec cranking on hauler missions for maybe 2-3 hours until our sec status was shot. Didn't stop the bots. Killed a couple hauler ships on one character alone and it would just keep grabbing a new bestower and continuing on.
This signature is useless, but it is red.
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m3talc0re X
Caldari SandStorm.
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Posted - 2011.01.11 00:40:00 -
[10]
My name is m3talc0re and I support this campain.
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Taurin Herock
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Posted - 2011.01.11 01:39:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Bagehi Edited by: Bagehi on 11/01/2011 00:02:45 Having been on a few roams through neut/red 0.0 space, I don't think the scanning mechanic is beyond the capabilities of some bots. Either that or someone runs around and scans while his bots chew up the things he finds. Much of the suspected bot activity I have seen is in scanned sites.
Well, that and hauling missions. Definitely tons of bots running hauling missions. A couple friends and I harassed one hive of bots in low sec cranking on hauler missions for maybe 2-3 hours until our sec status was shot. Didn't stop the bots. Killed a couple hauler ships on one character alone and it would just keep grabbing a new bestower and continuing on.
It's probably impossible to stop all conceivable types of bots or macros from being used in eve. However it's probably not necessary to stop all bots imaginable. What you need to do is modify the value equation for reward of doing x with a bot and the difficulty of doing x with the bot to such a point that it's no longer worthwhile for people to expend the effort of programing the bot or take the risk of using the bot. Then (and only then) will the masses change their behavior.
Since killing rats and mining are also legitimate player activities, any solution to the bot problem would have to effect players minimally and effect automated systems (bots or macros) severely.
My proposal does that to an extent (although not perfect in every conceivable way), and it uses already existing game mechanics(grav sites) which already exist in all areas of the game. There is even a pathway for developing an IHub for increased grav sites (ore prospecting array), and it is poorly used if I understand it correctly.
In any case my main point is that there is no way to have a "perfect" fix for all types of bots in eve. CCP and the Eve community overall would be wasting time trying to develop one, it's not possible or even necessary to attempt that. The fix will be an incremental change that makes botting less worthwhile and more difficult, therefore hopefully far less people will do it.
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Dr BattleSmith
PAX Interstellar Services
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Posted - 2011.01.11 02:03:00 -
[12]
The only solution is compelling gameplay.
When gameplay is created that revolves around repetitive actions, then bots will be made to do what they do best, repetitive actions.
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Mara Rinn
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Posted - 2011.01.11 02:04:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Bagehi Having been on a few roams through neut/red 0.0 space, I don't think the scanning mechanic is beyond the capabilities of some bots. Either that or someone runs around and scans while his bots chew up the things he finds. Much of the suspected bot activity I have seen is in scanned sites.
Forcing bot users to actually interact with the game in some capacity will reduce their impact to the level of player-run mining operations. At least they won't be able to warp to the same bookmark day in, day out, extracting the same high quality ore from the rich asteroid that respawns at exactly the same location on a predictable schedule.
Restricting the largest grav sites to those capable of keeping a squad of 10 miners busy for an hour should be enough to limit the economic impact of bots. Smaller sites should be down to the level of keeping one hulk busy for a quarter of an hour.
I would definitely move ice to the same system too, with small ice deposits only keeping a solo Mackinaw busy for a few cycles.
As for the mechanics of it, I imagine small sites would be "static" to solar systems, with larger sites being "static" to constellations and regions, with a couple of "super sites" randomly spawning anywhere. Thus miners will need to have scouts out looking for new deposits, encouraging cooperative play even for people who will spend the next four hours mining with EVE minimized on their work computer.
I know, it is a nerf to AFK mining. The means will exist to cope easily with that situation, it just requires having friends you trust. While I appreciate the low mineral prices brought around by AFK mining, the current environment makes it far too easy for bots. No aspect of a game played for entertainment should encourage repetitive, mechanical tasks.
-- [Aussie players: join ANZAC channel] |
Taurin Herock
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Posted - 2011.01.11 03:24:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Dr BattleSmith The only solution is compelling gameplay.
When gameplay is created that revolves around repetitive actions, then bots will be made to do what they do best, repetitive actions.
This criticism is kind of pointless, no?
I mean... is there anyway that PVE can avoid becoming repetitive? Given a sufficiently intelligent human, interacting with a machine will become repetitive at some point. Ask the guys who live in wormholes if it ever gets repetitive doing sites? Or ask the guys who scan and run null sec plexes, they will tell you the sites get repetitive. Those are probably the two most exciting PVE activities you can get involved in, so yea... avoiding "repetitive actions "is impossible for PVE gameplay.
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Ranka Mei
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.01.11 03:47:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Ranka Mei on 11/01/2011 03:47:21
Originally by: Mara Rinn Your defeatism is showing.
I have some more defeatism for you: trying to stop botters is pointless, as the root of the problem is not the easily identifiable botters (them that bot 23/7), but CCP itself. CCP, while not maybe loves the botter, certainly firmly looks the other way, as we're talking thousands of Russian and Chinese accounts (read = income) that they'd otherwise miss out on.
As long as CCP is unwilling to enforce the rules, or to really crack down on botting, I fear I can only sigh and resign to the knowledge that nothing will change. --
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Liang Nuren
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Posted - 2011.01.11 04:01:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Liang Nuren on 11/01/2011 04:01:58
Originally by: Dr BattleSmith The only solution is compelling gameplay.
When gameplay is created that revolves around repetitive actions, then bots will be made to do what they do best, repetitive actions.
This. I think I'd rather see something that miners thought of as making their lives easier/better than something that they would (rightly) view as a nerf.
-Liang -- Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire On Twitter - Blog got deleted when Evepress died - |
Crucis Cassiopeiae
PORSCHE AG
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Posted - 2011.01.11 11:57:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Crucis Cassiopeiae on 11/01/2011 11:58:46
Originally by: Hirana Yoshida Dynamic Belts are a very old idea, CCP themselves have spoken about the possibility several years ago.
If you really want to mess up bots then make the sites small enough to keep a high rotation rate (exploration system for sites) so you have scan repeatedly throughout the day. Benefits of using the exploration system, besides the respawns, is that they will move around so there will no longer be a monster system with XX belts.
Adjust size of the sites to make it worthwhile for legitimate corps while at the same time acting as a wrench in the bot machinery (few hours worth for a Hulk should suffice per site).
Caveat: Bots will always be here. The best we can hope to do is make it as bothersome to program one as possible to cut down on their use.
just integrate this and authors sugjestion and some better NPCs on that sites, and we have a winner :)
so non static belts that you nead to scan for and that will be again gone after some time and defended with smarter NPCs would solve this problems. Exploration system is way to go. :)
anyway PLEASE, JUST DO SOMETHING ABOUT THIS !!!!! "Everybody's at war with different things... I'm at war with my own heart sometimes" |
Maxsim Goratiev
Gallente Imperial Tau Syndicate
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Posted - 2011.01.11 13:34:00 -
[18]
Quote: Restricting the largest grav sites to those capable of keeping a squad of 10 miners busy for an hour should be enough to limit the economic impact of bots. Smaller sites should be down to the level of keeping one hulk busy for a quarter of an hour.
First of all,that is utteraly ridiculous. SO a mining company of 5 hulks and an orca will spend more time scanning and warping then doing the sites? that's silly. You want your ships to cost 4 times more?
Quote: As long as CCP is unwilling to enforce the rules, or to really crack down on botting, I fear I can only sigh and resign to the knowledge that nothing will change.
And how exactly does one crack down on botting? How will you EVER know what other programs are running on my computer and checking what is installed on my PC without i illegal by the way. Not without my permission or order anyway.
Quote: The only solution is compelling gameplay. When gameplay is created that revolves around repetitive actions, then bots will be made to do what they do best, repetitive actions.
This is not really criticism of the OP, unless you care to propose some
Overall, i thinl this is a trong idea, and need to become part of one large mining expansion. Move the sites. Get us comets. Make mining more entertaining and involving (there where some suggestions on the forum). Make mining lasers change colour when you change crystals. I suggest someone collects taht all into one proposal, under one roof. Then we will talk.
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Ranka Mei
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.01.11 14:42:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Maxsim Goratiev
Quote: As long as CCP is unwilling to enforce the rules, or to really crack down on botting, I fear I can only sigh and resign to the knowledge that nothing will change.
And how exactly does one crack down on botting? How will you EVER know what other programs are running on my computer and checking what is installed on my PC ...
Very simple, Comrade; you're either:
1) Playing 23/7, requiring no sleep, which makes you a bot; or you're
2) Sharing your account.
Both are banishable offences. See how simple that was? :)
Which brings me back to my original point: all CCP really needs to do, is compile a quick list of people who currently don't require sleep, and ban them on the spot. Count yourself lucky they're apparently not willing to do so, but it ain't right. --
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Aphrodite Skripalle
Galactic Defence Consortium
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Posted - 2011.01.11 15:08:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Ranka Mei Edited by: Ranka Mei on 11/01/2011 03:47:21
Originally by: Mara Rinn Your defeatism is showing.
I have some more defeatism for you: trying to stop botters is pointless, as the root of the problem is not the easily identifiable botters (them that bot 23/7), but CCP itself. CCP, while not maybe loves the botter, certainly firmly looks the other way, as we're talking thousands of Russian and Chinese accounts (read = income) that they'd otherwise miss out on.
As long as CCP is unwilling to enforce the rules, or to really crack down on botting, I fear I can only sigh and resign to the knowledge that nothing will change.
^This.
Go and petition a macro miner or botter. Nothing will happen.
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Niyrah
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Posted - 2011.01.13 03:22:00 -
[21]
It does make sense.
Supported
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Spirulina Laxissima
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Posted - 2011.01.13 09:58:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Spirulina Laxissima on 13/01/2011 10:06:21 Edited by: Spirulina Laxissima on 13/01/2011 10:05:46
Originally by: Ephemeron the easiest way to stop a botter in 0.0 is to put a cloaked alt in local...
^This!^ As it's a simple fix. However they'll catch on to it before long.
How about having the 'roids coming from out of system, barreling in would explain the resupply much better than the 'growing' ones do now.
(similar to comets coming from the oort-cloud, that have been disturbed by a dark companion-star)
EDIT: forgot to support SRI SYADASTI SYADAVAKTAVYA SYADASTI SYANNASTI SYADASTI CAVAKTAVYASCA SYADASTI SYANNASTI SYADAVATAVYASCA SYADASTI SYANNASTI SYADAVAKTAVYASCA Principia Discordiahttp://www.principiadiscordia.c |
Marak Mocam
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Posted - 2011.01.13 11:43:00 -
[23]
It might work but...
How about tying the amount mined in a belt to the number/toughness of the rats that spawn there.
The more/faster a belt is mined, the more rats and tougher the rats that'll show up. 2 top-end hulks could generate enough rats to kill 1 of them type gig. 3 and without coordinated attacks, 1 of them will die. 4 and even with coordinated efforts, 1 of them will die if not all 4 - 1 after the other. Something like this.
If you wanted to get a macro miners in highsec, grab some friends, and fly out and jet-can mine the area for a short time. When huge waves of rats show, warp out... Dead mining barge/exhumer by NPC's.
This can remove the effective "protections" from highsec botters. You run with a gang of 5 to 10 cruisers fitted with mining lasers and make a belt unsafe simply by mining it. The same with ice or the like too.
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Mara Rinn
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Posted - 2011.01.13 12:09:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Ranka Mei trying to stop botters is pointless, as the root of the problem is not the easily identifiable botters (them that bot 23/7), but CCP itself.
The "root of the problem" is that the most monotonic forms of gameplay are the ones that generate the highest incomes. The "root of the problem" is that there are no policy restrictions on players logging in 24x7, 30 days per PLEX. The "root of the problem" is that everyone is so focussed on making ISK, they forget about the game.
Restricting the activities of bots to those that a dedicated human player could manage for a sustained period (ie: no more than 8 hours of interaction per day), will at least put the bots on a level playing field with the humans. Either limiting the hours that an account can be logged in (or active), or selling PLEX that grant hours of logged in time rather than 30 days of unfettered play, would do the job. The bots will keep going, but at least they'll be cycling three times as much ISK through the PLEX market into more deserving hands.
Of course we are at an impasse, since some players want to be able to AFK cloak camp a suspected botting system 24x7.
-- [Aussie players: join ANZAC channel] |
Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.01.13 12:57:00 -
[25]
Please read the other hundred of threads about the same idea before posting it again. At least you will think about some of the problems of the suggestion and try to resolve them in your OP.
1) Scannable mining sites in alternative to fixed belts would be a good thing but making the scanning skills mandatory isn't a good idea. The new players already have a lot of skill to train, making another set of them mandatory is counter-productive. Learning skills have been removed and now you want to make another set skills.
Problem is that if you make the on board scanner sufficient to find the mining sites bots will use it and all return to the starting point.
2) Small mining sites would bother much more corp level mining than bots. Bots operate on the principle of minimum wage, so long as they get more than the cost of the subscription, equipment and connection they are ok.
3) Ratters need easy to warp locations to rat or a huge increase of encounter sites. Again, encounter sites can be found on the on board scanner and bots will not have trouble finding them.
4) 0.0 roaming gangs need targets, if all the targets are in locations that require probing to be found they will have problems.
The apparently "easy" solution is not so easy to apply in reality.
A "easy" solution for macro bot ratting would be to remove bounties from all the NPC and substitute them with "tokens" that can be sold to NPC (tags sold to Concord or enemies of the faction, planetary money that can be sold in any station and so on). But again probably it will not really stop the bots as apparently the drone regions are full of bots that loot and salvage the drone wrecks.
They mine 23 hour day, it is not possible without an EULA violation. Sure, but there is people that stay logged 23 hours day without doing anything active [from guys AFK cloaking to orca pilots parking at a POS and giving fleet bonuses while sleeping or working), so banning everyone logged for 23 hours don't work.
Beside that I am convinced that the advanced macros are capable to log off and log in with another character on the same account or even on a different account. When you are operating 23 hours day the cost isn't the subscription but the hardware, the connection and the loss of money when several account are banned.
So the 23 hours/day test will get mostly the guy with the home made macro or the one that has brought a macro from internet (and hasn't jet been burned by the keyloggers in the macro), not the "professional" botter.
The problem exist, Yes, the solutions are easy, No.
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.01.13 13:09:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Mara Rinn
Restricting the activities of bots to those that a dedicated human player could manage for a sustained period (ie: no more than 8 hours of interaction per day), will at least put the bots on a level playing field with the humans. Either limiting the hours that an account can be logged in (or active), or selling PLEX that grant hours of logged in time rather than 30 days of unfettered play, would do the job. The bots will keep going, but at least they'll be cycling three times as much ISK through the PLEX market into more deserving hands.
Of course we are at an impasse, since some players want to be able to AFK cloak camp a suspected botting system 24x7.
A limit of 8 hour day is highly questionable. Some day I have been logged for more than 16 hours.
Generally I wasn't at the keyboard all that time but mining or hauling stuff around while you are doing the house cores isn't a problem, with a hulk rigged for cargo you can be AFK for a decent time and if the asteroid pop you will lose a few or several mining cycles, nothing critical, same thing wile hauling around for 20, 30 jumps, the risk of a suicide gank is a bit higher but nothing critical.
Similarly I have been logged and AFK wile taking a shower, eating, speaking with a surprise guest and so on, leaving EVE open and forgotten for hours on a stretch (generally I dock when that kind of thing happen but I will not log off for a supposed 10 minutes interruption, even when it later stretch to hours).
So the 8 hours limit would be problematic. I have been in 0.0 fights that have required more than that time between assembling, reaching the destination point and returning and I am not a regular 0.0 denizen. I doubt most of them will be happy of a similar limit.
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Red Raider
Caldari Evil Dead L.L.C. DEM0N HUNTERS
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Posted - 2011.01.13 17:11:00 -
[27]
I was under the impression that the hacked client interface allows the user to know the location of everything in the solar system and warp to it without scanning it down.
The best solution to bots is find a way to make the client secure. Sc****r bots where no where near as efficient as the hacked client bots.
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Takashi X2
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Posted - 2011.01.13 20:49:00 -
[28]
Dont take this the wrong way as i dont like people who bot but its a nessesary evil. There simply arent enough high sec miners to keep up with demand of low ends like trit and pyer with out them becomeing really expensive. Dont get me wrong everyone and thier mother would be mining toons if trit ever hit 5 or 6 isk a unit but do you have any idea what that would do to pvp?
Currently a maelstrom cost about 104ish mil to make. There 10m trit at about 2.2isk per. at 6 isk per this would add almost 35m to this battle ship. Imaging what that would do to caps. That doesnt even take into account pyer and mex which will also be greatly affected.
As for ratting bots.. ya they should burn in the deepest darket caverns of an std infested 500 pound prostitute.
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Bagehi
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises R.A.G.E
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Posted - 2011.01.13 20:59:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Takashi X2 Dont take this the wrong way as i dont like people who bot but its a nessesary evil. There simply arent enough high sec miners to keep up with demand of low ends like trit and pyer with out them becomeing really expensive. Dont get me wrong everyone and thier mother would be mining toons if trit ever hit 5 or 6 isk a unit but do you have any idea what that would do to pvp?
Currently a maelstrom cost about 104ish mil to make. There 10m trit at about 2.2isk per. at 6 isk per this would add almost 35m to this battle ship. Imaging what that would do to caps. That doesnt even take into account pyer and mex which will also be greatly affected.
As for ratting bots.. ya they should burn in the deepest darket caverns of an std infested 500 pound prostitute.
Fixing mining to stabilize prices is a fairly small deal compared to fixing the game to stop bots.
This signature is useless, but it is red.
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Takashi X2
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Posted - 2011.01.13 21:03:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Bagehi
Originally by: Takashi X2 Dont take this the wrong way as i dont like people who bot but its a nessesary evil. There simply arent enough high sec miners to keep up with demand of low ends like trit and pyer with out them becomeing really expensive. Dont get me wrong everyone and thier mother would be mining toons if trit ever hit 5 or 6 isk a unit but do you have any idea what that would do to pvp?
Currently a maelstrom cost about 104ish mil to make. There 10m trit at about 2.2isk per. at 6 isk per this would add almost 35m to this battle ship. Imaging what that would do to caps. That doesnt even take into account pyer and mex which will also be greatly affected.
As for ratting bots.. ya they should burn in the deepest darket caverns of an std infested 500 pound prostitute.
Fixing mining to stabilize prices is a fairly small deal compared to fixing the game to stop bots.
The problem is if you "fix" the low end minerals then more people mine them instead of high end because its significantly safer and would have to be almost equal to some of the high end ores to make enough supply to fill a reasonable demand. The end result of this is that high ends will go up as less people are mining and thus you have the same problem with ships becoming much more expensive and pvp going down since people cant afford it. Thus turning those people towards people who sell isk in order to get thier pvp fix. Its a never ending circle of stupid promoted by stupid people who try to make money off the game. (and im not talking about CCP as they have a right to make money off the game.)
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