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XXSketchxx
Gallente Remote Soviet Industries
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Posted - 2011.01.14 03:46:00 -
[1]
Tl;dr click here
I apologize in advance for the poor website choice. Eve-files seems to be giving me some trouble. If someone would be so bold as to repost the document to eve-files and post a link that would be great.
1. The Premise
Everyone loves a good loot drop. But they're rare right? Too often do we see posts of the nature "exploration is broken, patch broke drops, DED plexes got nerfed, etc." This is in most cases a failure to understand the RNG of eve and the fact that while you may have only got overseer effects on that 4/10 or received no escalation on your unrated plex, there are plenty of others who ran those same sites and hit the jackpot and got a full escalation + jackpot respectively.
Now for many people who explore casually, the one drop they get is pure luck. They did it once, got lucky, great. For others, they start to realize that drops come and go, escalations dead end sometimes but eventually you'll get that full escalation and gold at the end of the rainbow.
For me, I began to realize that, go figure, the more I explored, the more stuff I got. Moreover, the more sites I actually found, the more stuff I got. ItÆs simple probability. Common sense that seems to be amiss. Imagine the lottery. Are your chances of winning better with 1 ticket or 100 tickets? Common sense of course says 100 is better than 1. Thus it became my goal toàfind more sites.
2. Research
My journey began on the forums. I recalled a thread from around the beginnings of Apocrypha discussing signature sizes and things of that nature. The exact thread can be found here. In short, the author discovered that there was a certain amount of ôsignature sizesö and these correlated to ôtarget strengthsö which were modified based on the users skill/gear/implants. Unable to find anything but an image of her excel sheet, I set about to reinvent the wheel so to speak it was time to rediscover ancient works of a great scholar.
I cannot thank you enough, Miss Moonwych, for your contribution to my work.
3. Experimentation
Initially I did not have the skills for deep space probes, but I assumed that core scanners would work in this theorized ôfilteringö mechanism. A futile effort ensued and I was quickly assured that I would have to wait for the skill to finish. To my discovery, core scanner probes and deep space probes are significantly different. Yes the obvious difference is the maximum range, 32 AU v. 256 AU. But what I discovered (and perhaps is common knowledge; alas I was but a noob) was that Deep Space Probes have a significantly lower base sensor strength. In fact, they have a measly 5 base sensor strength, compared to the vastly superior core scanner probe with its 40 base sensor strength.
Based on my rudimentary understanding of the scanning mechanics, I reasoned that perhaps due to the higher sensor strength of core probes, they were more susceptible to ônoise.ö Thus the ôtarget strengthsö that would show up at a 32 AU scan would be vastly different each time, due to the noise associated with varying distances to the signature being scanned.
When Astrometrics 5 finished, I had Deep Space Probes ready to go. Based on my conclusions, I theorized that a 256 AU probe would allow me to do two things. First, I would be able to scan an entire system at once. Very nice. More importantly however, the low sensor strength of the probe would allow me to have consistent results regardless of probe position in relation to signatures in the system.
The hypothesis proved correct. I found that in each system I checked, the results I was uncovering were revealing a pattern.
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XXSketchxx
Gallente Remote Soviet Industries
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Posted - 2011.01.14 03:49:00 -
[2]
4. Practical Application
The next step was determining what strengths correlated to what sites. I embarked on a furious mission to find as many ôdifferentö sites as I could. DED complexes, watches, vigils, hideouts (I was sticking to high security space, yes). Each time I found a site that I was interested in (only combats as I have no interest in radar/ladar/grav/mag), I noted the SIG ID, reset my scanner and rescanned the system with a 256 AU Deep Space probe, annotating the results for the noted SIG ID. Furthermore, I expanded beyond Caldari Space, visiting Gallente and Amarr. Nicely enough, Sansha Watch and Gurista Watch have the same result. This consistency showed to be true throughout the various faction spaces.
A list began to form. Soon I was able to filter out much of the junk that I wanted nothing to do with and get watches, 4/10s and vigils constantly. The loot began to pour in as I found more and more sites at a much faster result than before I had been using Deep Space Probes.
5. The Sheet
A final problem arose. I was getting better gear, better skills. Thus, my initial signatures from the DSP scan were changing. I needed to formulate a way to account for this. Additionally, I wanted to share this stuff with my friends so they too could enjoy the plunder. Thus I created this sheet. I am no mathematician and nor am I exceptionally skilled in Excel. My basic premise was to find an equation that converted my known results for specific sites (signature sizes) to whatever the user input.
The sheet is a work in progress and does not account for anything outside of high security space. It also does not account for virtue implants (I got lazy). I myself have nearly completed it in terms of combat sites, but this release will only contain high security combat sites. I leave it up to the community to use it as they will.
Take note that this method of filtering is not fool proof. Yes you will still find radar/ladar/whatever when you are searching for the signature that correlates to DED 4/10. The point is that you will not find DED 4/10 at anything other than its prescribed signature.
I hope you all enjoy my story and if not, at least enjoy this spreadsheet. Much credit goes to Miss Moonwych for her previous work in this field.
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XXSketchxx
Gallente Remote Soviet Industries
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Posted - 2011.01.14 03:55:00 -
[3]
It works:
Check the Contracts of Liliana Rahl. She is my market alt and handles all of my contracts as of this past October. Her list of completed contracts is by no means "mere luck." It is the result of me running countless sites. Time after time I had faction spawns with tags and ammo, no escalation or only overseer effects. But, if you run enough sites, you'll win the prize.
Furthermore, I explore in Caldari space almost exclusively, Lonetrek in particular. I scour the region for an hour or two, literally hitting every high security system in an evening. Basically, I look forward to seeing more competition in the "busiest" regions soon
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XXSketchxx
Gallente Remote Soviet Industries
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Posted - 2011.01.14 08:22:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Missm Uppet <sarcasm>Thanks</sarcasm>
I'm not going to lie. This is probably the biggest reason I finally decided to post this. I'm sure many others will be upset as well but, someone had to do it.
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XXSketchxx
Gallente Remote Soviet Industries
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Posted - 2011.01.15 00:52:00 -
[5]
Start at the top.
Green is a new strength, everything between that (to the right) and the next green falls under the green number above.
So for the top one, Hideout and Haunted Yard both fall under it. Lookout falls under the next strength, etc.
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XXSketchxx
Gallente Remote Soviet Industries
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Posted - 2011.01.15 00:55:00 -
[6]
A quick note:
For those that just want to use my strength converter and not necessarily input their gear and skills, you could use EFT to identify the probe strength. Simply right click the launcher in EFT and "show charge info" or something like that. Then just type that number below "Calculated Deep Space Probe Strength. Until I modify it for virtue implants, this is the only way to account for it on the sheet.
You could also use the in-game "show charge info" feature, but I believe it rounds the value, thus your results may be less accurate.
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XXSketchxx
Gallente Remote Soviet Industries
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Posted - 2011.01.15 01:30:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Kaede Walker so, just to clarify: hideout and haunted yard have the same probe strength lookout and ded 3/10 the third green value has nothing underneath it watch, ded 4/10 and chemical yard have the same vigil has its own and the last green has no value underneath it?
This is correct.
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XXSketchxx
Gallente Remote Soviet Industries
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Posted - 2011.01.15 16:56:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Voith I was hoping this would be something useful.
Like the fact that Lonetrek is bugged and you get low-sec/null-sec exploration sites even in .8 systems.
Its not a bug. The final part of Watch/Vigil is always in low sec for every pirate faction. Occasionally the earlier parts will send you through low sec to get to a part (usually if you start in a high sec island like the Ossa pocket.
The final parts of the Annexes in low sec are in 0.0 I believe as well.
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XXSketchxx
Gallente Remote Soviet Industries
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Posted - 2011.01.15 17:14:00 -
[9]
Edited by: XXSketchxx on 15/01/2011 17:14:43 Edited by: XXSketchxx on 15/01/2011 17:14:33
Originally by: Voith
No I mean that in some Lonetrek systems you get Radar/mag/Exploration sites that should only spawn in low/nullsec.
Ah okay, my mistake. I do know of one radar that spawns Battleships. How do you know that is a bug?
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XXSketchxx
Gallente Remote Soviet Industries
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Posted - 2011.01.15 21:47:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Zaknussem
One question though: What about RSS probes? Do you plan to add them later?
There is no reason to add RSS probes or sisters probes.
The faction core scanner versions would suffer the same results as regular Core scanner probes (described in the op) and the sisters deep space probes do not give an increase in strength.
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XXSketchxx
Gallente Remote Soviet Industries
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Posted - 2011.01.15 23:20:00 -
[11]
Edited by: XXSketchxx on 15/01/2011 23:21:01
Originally by: trjcquee So where do you position the DSP? At the star, or as far away as possible while still covering all the planets? Does it matter?
My process is as follows
1. Jump into system 2. Align to next gate 3. Drop probe 4. Scan
If there is a signal I like
5. Deactivate DSP. 6. Swap to Core scanners and scan it down.
Use DSP to check if signal suddenly vanishes (someone completes site). Swap back to DSP on first scan
If there is no signal I wish to scan
5. Recall, warp to next gate. 6. Back to step 1.
Tl;dr Position does not matter due to the low sensor strength of DSP.
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XXSketchxx
Gallente Remote Soviet Industries
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Posted - 2011.02.07 12:06:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Sala Teng Dear OP, thanks a load for your unraveling of mysteries.
Just one question for you (and other informed people): Is it feasible to do this in one ship, say Tengu, as proposed somewhere in this thread? Or shall we use some sort of 2ship-combo (Buzzard as scanner, Tengu as muscle)?
Thx, ST
If you have an alt, 2 ship is fine. But the ideal ship is without a doubt the tengu. With the emergent locus subsystem you can probe with a DSP. Additionally, I keep a covert cloak + covert subsystem + dissolution sequencer in my cargo (ECCM mods already fitted). This is for those final escalations in low sec. Just swap back to the accelerated ejection sub when you get in low sec (use the "most unlikely" station to be being used, i.e. State Bank or something like that). If only one station be careful and even if there's no station, the covert fit tengu can still manage the final escalations for Gurista Watch/Vigil, it just may take a while (especially Vigil).
Actually I stopped running Vigils altogether. That final escalation isn't worth the time.
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XXSketchxx
Gallente Remote Soviet Industries
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Posted - 2011.02.08 11:51:00 -
[13]
Originally by: lag kills i've been in caldariland for a week or so and made some very nice money. imo the loki is just as good, if not better than the tengu because it's generally faster at killing the frigs and cruisers and you never need much range. when i warp in on the first room of the gurista scout outpost, i set approach for the next gate and by the time i reach it, everything in the room is blown up, then i just tank everything in the next room while blowing up the telescope.
Tengu with AML does the same.
As for using a pvp rapier...I don't see the problem with that. My only point is that I roam 3 regions over the course of the week. It is highly unlikely that I would have a ship like that ready to go in the near vicinity. Being able to use the tengu for the final stage is imperative to being able to "keep on moving" and getting as many sites as possible.
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XXSketchxx
Gallente Remote Soviet Industries
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Posted - 2011.02.12 14:11:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Lithargos Erm I really want to believe in this system but having tried it around a bit, some stuff stick ome stuff don't.
One system, 1 deep space probe:
three signatures all at 0.22%.... and they turn out to be: one wormhole,one grav, one complex.
How's this?
Read through how the process works again.
Each of those sites you found at that percent will only ever show at that percent (that specific wh, that specific grav, and that specific complex).
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XXSketchxx
Gallente Remote Soviet Industries
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Posted - 2011.02.19 20:51:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Dagobert D Edited by: Dagobert D on 19/02/2011 20:42:30 I did some tests this evening and Im a bit confused:
Found 2 Wh's on 0.2 and on 0.4 strenght with a 256 AU scan. Is that possible?
Yes. Different wormholes can have different strengths.
For instance, M555 shows the same as Vigils for me and X702 shows the same was Watches for me.
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XXSketchxx
Gallente Remote Soviet Industries
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Posted - 2011.02.21 12:09:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Droidster The "download" here is worthless. It points to a pay-to-download site. If you try their "Free" option, it gives a bogus message like "Sorry, all free download slots are taken. CLICK HERE TO UPGRADE TO PREMIUM."
Don't get fooled by this scam.
Please ignore this idiot. I have no affiliation to the site I have linked for download and this is not a scam. I just tried to download the link for free on my work computer and it worked fine.
I am trying to upload to eve files but it doesn't seem to want to let me
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XXSketchxx
Gallente Remote Soviet Industries
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Posted - 2011.02.21 12:28:00 -
[17]
Originally by: JonnyRandom You fly a Tengu for this you say? What's your fit?
[High Sec] Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II
ECCM - Gravimetric II Shield Boost Amplifier II Shield Boost Amplifier II Shadow Serpentis 10MN Afterburner Ballistic Deflection Field II Pithum C-Type Medium Shield Booster
Heavy Missile Launcher II,Scourge Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II,Scourge Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II,Scourge Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II,Scourge Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II,Scourge Heavy Missile Salvager II Sisters Expanded Probe Launcher,Deep Space Scanner Probe I
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I
Tengu Defensive - Adaptive Shielding Tengu Engineering - Augmented Capacitor Reservoir Tengu Electronics - Emergent Locus Analyzer Tengu Offensive - Accelerated Ejection Bay Tengu Propulsion - Fuel Catalyst
This is pretty efficient for high sec. You can swap two of the midslots for analyzer/codebreaker if you're into that. Can also swap a salvager for another launcher if you don't care to salvage.
For probing in low sec I'll switch to the covert ops offensive subsystem. If I find a site and the system seems safe, I'll swap to the accelerated ejection and run the site faster. Escalations I'll keep the cloak on.
Usually I won't go unprobable until the last part of the escalation (parts leading up usually only take a few seconds). Important to remember that if you run sites in low sec, the last part (at least for annex and minor annex) will be in null sec, so fit accordingly.
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XXSketchxx
Gallente Remote Soviet Industries
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Posted - 2011.03.08 13:06:00 -
[18]
Op updated with latest version.
Changes include some aesthetic work, a few combat sites added and a wormhole page added.
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