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XXSketchxx Gallente Remote Soviet Industries	Posted - 2011.01.14 03:46:00 - [1] Tl;dr click here I apologize in advance for the poor website choice. Eve-files seems to be giving me some trouble. If someone would be so bold as to repost the document to eve-files and post a link that would be great. 1. The Premise Everyone loves a good loot drop. But they're rare right? Too often do we see posts of the nature "exploration is broken, patch broke drops, DED plexes got nerfed, etc." This is in most cases a failure to understand the RNG of eve and the fact that while you may have only got overseer effects on that 4/10 or received no escalation on your unrated plex, there are plenty of others who ran those same sites and hit the jackpot and got a full escalation + jackpot respectively. Now for many people who explore casually, the one drop they get is pure luck. They did it once, got lucky, great. For others, they start to realize that drops come and go, escalations dead end sometimes but eventually you'll get that full escalation and gold at the end of the rainbow. For me, I began to realize that, go figure, the more I explored, the more stuff I got. Moreover, the more sites I actually found, the more stuff I got. ItFs simple probability. Common sense that seems to be amiss. Imagine the lottery. Are your chances of winning better with 1 ticket or 100 tickets? Common sense of course says 100 is better than 1. Thus it became my goal to`find more sites. 2. Research My journey began on the forums. I recalled a thread from around the beginnings of Apocrypha discussing signature sizes and things of that nature. The exact thread can be found here. In short, the author discovered that there was a certain amount of tsignature sizesv and these correlated to ttarget strengthsv which were modified based on the users skill/gear/implants. Unable to find anything but an image of her excel sheet, I set about to reinvent the wheel so to speak it was time to rediscover ancient works of a great scholar. I cannot thank you enough, Miss Moonwych, for your contribution to my work. 3. Experimentation Initially I did not have the skills for deep space probes, but I assumed that core scanners would work in this theorized tfilteringv mechanism. A futile effort ensued and I was quickly assured that I would have to wait for the skill to finish. To my discovery, core scanner probes and deep space probes are significantly different. Yes the obvious difference is the maximum range, 32 AU v. 256 AU. But what I discovered (and perhaps is common knowledge; alas I was but a noob) was that Deep Space Probes have a significantly lower base sensor strength. In fact, they have a measly 5 base sensor strength, compared to the vastly superior core scanner probe with its 40 base sensor strength. Based on my rudimentary understanding of the scanning mechanics, I reasoned that perhaps due to the higher sensor strength of core probes, they were more susceptible to tnoise.v Thus the ttarget strengthsv that would show up at a 32 AU scan would be vastly different each time, due to the noise associated with varying distances to the signature being scanned. When Astrometrics 5 finished, I had Deep Space Probes ready to go. Based on my conclusions, I theorized that a 256 AU probe would allow me to do two things. First, I would be able to scan an entire system at once. Very nice. More importantly however, the low sensor strength of the probe would allow me to have consistent results regardless of probe position in relation to signatures in the system. The hypothesis proved correct. I found that in each system I checked, the results I was uncovering were revealing a pattern.
XXSketchxx Gallente Remote Soviet Industries	Posted - 2011.01.14 03:49:00 - [2] 4. Practical Application The next step was determining what strengths correlated to what sites. I embarked on a furious mission to find as many tdifferentv sites as I could. DED complexes, watches, vigils, hideouts (I was sticking to high security space, yes). Each time I found a site that I was interested in (only combats as I have no interest in radar/ladar/grav/mag), I noted the SIG ID, reset my scanner and rescanned the system with a 256 AU Deep Space probe, annotating the results for the noted SIG ID. Furthermore, I expanded beyond Caldari Space, visiting Gallente and Amarr. Nicely enough, Sansha Watch and Gurista Watch have the same result. This consistency showed to be true throughout the various faction spaces. A list began to form. Soon I was able to filter out much of the junk that I wanted nothing to do with and get watches, 4/10s and vigils constantly. The loot began to pour in as I found more and more sites at a much faster result than before I had been using Deep Space Probes. 5. The Sheet A final problem arose. I was getting better gear, better skills. Thus, my initial signatures from the DSP scan were changing. I needed to formulate a way to account for this. Additionally, I wanted to share this stuff with my friends so they too could enjoy the plunder. Thus I created this sheet. I am no mathematician and nor am I exceptionally skilled in Excel. My basic premise was to find an equation that converted my known results for specific sites (signature sizes) to whatever the user input. The sheet is a work in progress and does not account for anything outside of high security space. It also does not account for virtue implants (I got lazy). I myself have nearly completed it in terms of combat sites, but this release will only contain high security combat sites. I leave it up to the community to use it as they will. Take note that this method of filtering is not fool proof. Yes you will still find radar/ladar/whatever when you are searching for the signature that correlates to DED 4/10. The point is that you will not find DED 4/10 at anything other than its prescribed signature. I hope you all enjoy my story and if not, at least enjoy this spreadsheet. Much credit goes to Miss Moonwych for her previous work in this field.
XXSketchxx Gallente Remote Soviet Industries	Posted - 2011.01.14 03:55:00 - [3] It works: Check the Contracts of Liliana Rahl. She is my market alt and handles all of my contracts as of this past October. Her list of completed contracts is by no means "mere luck." It is the result of me running countless sites. Time after time I had faction spawns with tags and ammo, no escalation or only overseer effects. But, if you run enough sites, you'll win the prize. Furthermore, I explore in Caldari space almost exclusively, Lonetrek in particular. I scour the region for an hour or two, literally hitting every high security system in an evening. Basically, I look forward to seeing more competition in the "busiest" regions soon
Missm Uppet Caldari	Posted - 2011.01.14 07:32:00 - [4] <sarcasm>Thanks</sarcasm>
syphurous Gallente Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2011.01.14 08:00:00 - [5] You can do this without a sheet if you have a good memory, and is obvious to most. Out of all the explorers I know, it seems Caladri space is packed full of watches, vigils and DED's. Once while I was grinding for the Caldari epic, I stopped for a bit and did some scanning, I found a Radar with battleships, in high sec, and a decent drop ( 100 mil worth ). In Amarr space each of the constellations are huge, but they are just as full with sites, you just have to hit more systems. I never really scanned in Mini space, but Gallente I have a lot. Even in small constellations, you can go through 10 systems with maybe only one or two sigs, usually wormholes. The rewards, also are unbalanced. Guristas Watch, Shield amps, hardeners and other crusier sized parts C-type to A-type. Serpentis Watch, if you are lucky enough to get to the end, A-type frigate modules. Sansha / Blood 4/10, Corpum mods, Serpentis 4/10, Corelum mods. No one wants Corelum mods, they are all pretty crap. So not only do Gallente get crap all lvl4 Highsec agents, they get screwed on the Exploration as well. Most people will read this thinking it's part of my post, when its actually my sig :P
XXSketchxx Gallente Remote Soviet Industries	Posted - 2011.01.14 08:22:00 - [6] Originally by: Missm Uppet <sarcasm>Thanks</sarcasm> I'm not going to lie. This is probably the biggest reason I finally decided to post this. I'm sure many others will be upset as well but, someone had to do it.
Sturmwolke	Posted - 2011.01.14 08:28:00 - [7] Nice work! Though, tbh, when you look at the mechanics, it isn't hard to deduce how the DSP can be advantageous when it comes to filtering signature strength and attributing it to certain signature types. Iirc, they can already do this with the core probes and identifying WH to a certain extent. It was a secret hidden in plain view for most explorers. tl;dr train Astrometrics V naaaouw!
FlameGlow Rebellion Alliance	Posted - 2011.01.14 08:31:00 - [8] Originally by: syphurous You can do this without a sheet if you have a good memory, and is obvious to most. Out of all the explorers I know, it seems Caladri space is packed full of watches, vigils and DED's. Once while I was grinding for the Caldari epic, I stopped for a bit and did some scanning, I found a Radar with battleships, in high sec, and a decent drop ( 100 mil worth ). In Amarr space each of the constellations are huge, but they are just as full with sites, you just have to hit more systems. I never really scanned in Mini space, but Gallente I have a lot. Even in small constellations, you can go through 10 systems with maybe only one or two sigs, usually wormholes. The rewards, also are unbalanced. Guristas Watch, Shield amps, hardeners and other crusier sized parts C-type to A-type. Serpentis Watch, if you are lucky enough to get to the end, A-type frigate modules. Sansha / Blood 4/10, Corpum mods, Serpentis 4/10, Corelum mods. No one wants Corelum mods, they are all pretty crap. So not only do Gallente get crap all lvl4 Highsec agents, they get screwed on the Exploration as well. Serpentis are also the easiest to tank - just 2 damage types, unlike angels or drones no missiles and short-range, unlike guristas and drones no neuting that could kill your tank, unlike bloods
Loraine Gess	Posted - 2011.01.14 08:43:00 - [9] Originally by: syphurous The rewards, also are unbalanced. Guristas Watch, Shield amps, hardeners and other crusier sized parts C-type to A-type. Serpentis Watch, if you are lucky enough to get to the end, A-type frigate modules. Yeah when you pull A-type cruiser mods out of high-sec let me know.
syphurous Gallente Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2011.01.14 08:47:00 - [10] Originally by: FlameGlow Serpentis are also the easiest to tank - just 2 damage types, unlike angels or drones no missiles and short-range, unlike guristas and drones no neuting that could kill your tank, unlike bloods Guristas, Kin/ Therm tank ( identical to a Serp tank ) Sansha / Blood / Drones, EM / Therm Angels, Explo / Kin I've run most of them all in an Ishtar. Armor tanked. When it comes to bloods, out range the nos. Yeah, Serp damping you down to 5km doesn't affect you at all Drone DED's aren't worth doing except 5/10 and above, and then the payout can be horrifically crap. They all have their niggles, but they are all about as hard as each other, though the Bloods take longer due to having to actually move. Most people will read this thinking it's part of my post, when its actually my sig :P

Mavnas	Posted - 2011.01.14 09:38:00 - [11] Originally by: syphurous stuff Serpentis 4/10 drops an EANM worth about 150m. It's not particularly rare either. I pulled a low-grade slave epsilon out of a really wimpy site today. (I want to say it was a Lookout?) So I basically run all sigs in a system.
AstarothPrime	Posted - 2011.01.14 10:29:00 - [12] Originally by: FlameGlow Serpentis are also the easiest to tank - just 2 damage types, unlike angels or drones no missiles and short-range, unlike guristas and drones no neuting that could kill your tank, unlike bloods Anything is easy to tank actually. Specially if you are flying best PVE boats - caldari. Ewar is screwed. Id personally pick tracking disruption and neuting over sensor damp any day. And I would pick sensor damp, tracking disruption AND neuting at the same time over guristas ECM any day as well. Guristas are the worst and their ECM I.
Vabjekf Caldari	Posted - 2011.01.14 13:29:00 - [13] I thought this was already common knowledge? Well, i dont think ive ever seen it explained as completely as here, but everyone talking about deep space probes and 'know your signal strengths' kind of lets anyone who knows much about scanning figure it out. I will admit i wish i read this yesterday as i spent a few hours the other day trying to do it with 32au probes and realizing that the variation was too large. Looking at the strengths of the probes and realizing that deep space is only 5, i quickly came to the same assumption you did. Oh well. I need to train one more level of astrometrics then. Until then im just writing down what the sites i scan are, so i can ignore them as i go through those systems again. ^_^ I don't think it matters, while there are a lot of people who do various types of exploration, most people still continue mission running. I guess they like the safer consistent income. I just love moving blue spheres around and zeroing in on signals
Salliene Gallente Happy Unicorn Initiative	Posted - 2011.01.14 16:39:00 - [14] Originally by: XXSketchxx I'm not going to lie. This is probably the biggest reason I finally decided to post this. I'm sure many others will be upset as well but, someone had to do it. Probably 5 people will read this and start doing it. The general EVE populace has proven time and again to be highly averse to anything other than a "push button, receive reward" style of game play. Most EVE players would probably have 25-50% more ISK in their wallet if they would take the time to use sell orders instead of just doing "right click - sell", but that's extra work!
Aureus	Posted - 2011.01.14 17:03:00 - [15] Just wanted to say Thank You for this nice explanation! I was already interested in exploration and Im currently almost done with Astrometrics IV. Now I know to continue it to V as before I read this post I was intent at keeping it at IV. Cant wait to actually do some exploration! How hard are these sites you go after - the 4/10 plexes? Are they comparable to L4 missions? Harder?
Loraine Gess	Posted - 2011.01.14 17:30:00 - [16] Originally by: Aureus Just wanted to say Thank You for this nice explanation! I was already interested in exploration and Im currently almost done with Astrometrics IV. Now I know to continue it to V as before I read this post I was intent at keeping it at IV. Cant wait to actually do some exploration! How hard are these sites you go after - the 4/10 plexes? Are they comparable to L4 missions? Harder? You can do a 4/10 in your standard 2 BCU/2 SPR 2 drake with invulns. Add a third SPR (or specific hardeners) for bloods/sansha, otherwise you're good.
KWyz	Posted - 2011.01.14 18:59:00 - [17] There are plenty of solutions for highsec exploration. But I believe the all-in-one wonder is, of course, the Tengu. The ability to scan and immediately run the site, while scanning for more at the same time, is unparalleled(unless of course you are using another t3 cruiser, loki and proteus are both competitive for highsec, as long as you use the scan strenght subsystem). Also, I feel the need to point out to the OP that from my experience with 0.0 exploration sites, the SAME rules apply completely. All that we need now is someone with the time to investigate it all...personally i find myself in no rush whatsoever to scan sites. If I have to hurry, it ain't worth it anymore, my fun comes from doing things my way, and in 0.0 things are often quiet enough to let you do just that. A small note: if anyone is mortified by the prospect of sites getting scanned down faster and faster, fear not. Exploration sites cannot be depleted, once a complex is run it will respawn somewhere...I don't know if that is instantaneous or if it has a cooldown, neither can I say if the respawn happens in the same constellation, or even region. But they DO respawn, and quickly enough so that us carebears who don't have the skills/mood for missioning will be able to support themselves via exploration. Heck, i've been doing it since my second month in the game. Good luck out there!
Kaede Walker	Posted - 2011.01.15 00:10:00 - [18] Ok, random question, how are the sites on your spreadsheet grouped? im having trouble figuring out which calculation is for which site. 0.o thanks!
XXSketchxx Gallente Remote Soviet Industries	Posted - 2011.01.15 00:52:00 - [19] Start at the top. Green is a new strength, everything between that (to the right) and the next green falls under the green number above. So for the top one, Hideout and Haunted Yard both fall under it. Lookout falls under the next strength, etc.
XXSketchxx Gallente Remote Soviet Industries	Posted - 2011.01.15 00:55:00 - [20] A quick note: For those that just want to use my strength converter and not necessarily input their gear and skills, you could use EFT to identify the probe strength. Simply right click the launcher in EFT and "show charge info" or something like that. Then just type that number below "Calculated Deep Space Probe Strength. Until I modify it for virtue implants, this is the only way to account for it on the sheet. You could also use the in-game "show charge info" feature, but I believe it rounds the value, thus your results may be less accurate.

Kaede Walker	Posted - 2011.01.15 01:17:00 - [21] so, just to clarify: hideout and haunted yard have the same probe strength lookout and ded 3/10 the third green value has nothing underneath it watch, ded 4/10 and chemical yard have the same vigil has its own and the last green has no value underneath it? or do the green ones act as bookends, like hideout signature size can be between the first and second green ones, etc? Thanks!
XXSketchxx Gallente Remote Soviet Industries	Posted - 2011.01.15 01:30:00 - [22] Originally by: Kaede Walker so, just to clarify: hideout and haunted yard have the same probe strength lookout and ded 3/10 the third green value has nothing underneath it watch, ded 4/10 and chemical yard have the same vigil has its own and the last green has no value underneath it? This is correct.
Kaede Walker	Posted - 2011.01.15 02:16:00 - [23] Thank You very much! :D
Boltorano Fourth Circle Total Comfort	Posted - 2011.01.15 04:46:00 - [24] Originally by: syphurous I never really scanned in Mini space, but Gallente I have a lot. Even in small constellations, you can go through 10 systems with maybe only one or two sigs, usually wormholes. They're hiding, somewhere lonely.
Zarbane	Posted - 2011.01.15 06:43:00 - [25] tagged
Mara Rinn	Posted - 2011.01.15 11:56:00 - [26] Can anyone else share their experience with wormhole signatures? My short excursion today indicates that K162s have the same signal strength as Lookouts & DED 3/10 plexes. -- [Aussie players: join ANZAC channel]
Captain Pompous Is Right Even When He's Wrong So Deal With It	Posted - 2011.01.15 13:14:00 - [27] Originally by: Boltorano Originally by: syphurous I never really scanned in Mini space, but Gallente I have a lot. Even in small constellations, you can go through 10 systems with maybe only one or two sigs, usually wormholes. They're hiding, somewhere lonely. Solitude! --- ☻♥ Problem? Therapy sessions ♥☻
Spectre Wraith Darwin Inc.	Posted - 2011.01.15 13:29:00 - [28] tl;dr - You figured something out most pre-apoc explorers knew forever.
De Guantanamo	Posted - 2011.01.15 16:38:00 - [29] Originally by: Spectre Wraith tl;dr - You figured something out most pre-apoc explorers knew forever. Thats funny cause this wasn't possible pre-Apoc
Voith	Posted - 2011.01.15 16:51:00 - [30] I was hoping this would be something useful. Like the fact that Lonetrek is bugged and you get low-sec/null-sec exploration sites even in .8 systems.



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