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Sleeper Neuting - reporting on C2-C4 systems

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Bibosikus Gallente Universal Moose Federation	Posted - 2011.01.16 20:20:00 - [1] Edited by: Bibosikus on 16/01/2011 20:25:52 I'm posting this because nobody else seems to have done so, and there are increasing numbers of silly speculative threads in other channels which I've stopped bothering to contribute to. After the SISI patch that re-included Sleeper Nos/neuting, I spent about 20 hours of gameplay testing T2-fitted Tengus and Legions in Class 2-4 anomalies, and Class 3 sites. Please don't ask me about C5-6, that's just not somewhere I go solo :p Quick points to clear up: 1) There is no Sleeper Nossing. Despite the graphic, Sleepers are back to their (correct) neuting habits. This is confirmed by the EWar icon next to the ship in the Overview list, "Pilot is cap neutralizing me". 2) Sleeper cruisers neut from 40km. BS from 70km. 3) Like other Sleeper EWar, they don't apply neuts 100% of the time. More like 90%. The two fits I used were both active tanks: - Tengu with Amplification Node & Cap Regen subs, XL booster and T2 boost amp, capacitor buffed to 62% stable in EFT with T1 rigs & mods. 81km target & dps range, no propulsion. 980dps omnitank, 360dps. - Legion with Nanobot Injector & Cap Regen subs, twin T2 MAR, T1 aux nanos and T1 ccc & other cap buffing mods. 32km dps range with web & AB fitted. 58% cap stable in EFT. 500dps omnitank, 360dps. My intention was to use as cheap a fit as possible, and see how each ship fared. I spawned each wave correctly (ie. trigger last) and then tanked the neuting for 5-10 minutes without firing. What I wanted to do was "cap tank" all neuting scenarios assuming worst-case (ie. no guns) and see what could be held off, only using dps as additional tank if I lost cap stability. Some details: Neuting in C1's is there, but so light it's ineffective to any decently cap stable boat. C2's have slightly heavier neuting but still won't break cap stability. C3 anoms are also easily cap-tanked, as are the mags & radars although the Unsecured Frontier Database last wave has 2 BS, 3 Cruisers and 2 frigates which ALL neut. This wave will break a 62% cap stable tank in about 5 minutes assuming you don't kill a single sleeper. But I can't see anyone being that incapable.. C4 was the real surprise. I took on a C4 Frontier Barracks, which has (the nastiest) triple BS neuting in the second wave. Cap stability was reduced just past the peak regen rate so I had about 15 minutes in which to kill one BS and reacquire stability. So again - no problem. I want to reiterate - these claims are based on proper triggering of waves. I didn't bother screwing around with multi spawns, because that's not exactly constructive. On a passing note, for C1-C3 systems, there is one anomaly with no neuting in it at all. The Line, Perimeter Checkpoint, and Outpost Frontier Stronghold. Not that important though really To recap: Basic, T2 fitted active-tanked Strat Cruisers (specifically Tengu & Legion) are unaffected by Sleeper neuting in C1-C3 sites & anoms, and C4 anoms, provided they have 60%+ cap stability and, for C4's, target Neuting ships as a priority (without killing triggers too soon). With ugraded fits and implants, Sleeper neuting really becomes even less of a consideration.
n00n3r Caldari Malicious Destruction	Posted - 2011.01.16 23:03:00 - [2] Thank you, that was very informative. Always nice to see good work getting done on SiSi
Ayenne Augusto	Posted - 2011.01.17 11:40:00 - [3] Thank you for the info. Was very useful.
JOHN RAMB0	Posted - 2011.01.17 13:49:00 - [4] Edited by: JOHN RAMB0 on 17/01/2011 13:50:25 in c5/c6 wormholes one sleeples guardian neuts 40 cap per second. i'm not sure but i think the cycle time is 10 seconds.
Kleatus Slick Amarr Serenity Engineering and Transport Company Syndicate.	Posted - 2011.01.18 00:09:00 - [5] imo if you are going to give up a launcher and cut your dps range down from 110+km down to 80ish km you might as well just move on down to a c3
Khyara	Posted - 2011.01.18 13:56:00 - [6] Ive moved down to a C3 from a C4 until I see the results of the changes. I'd be happy if the changes chased out a lot of the n00bs that just sit around spamming combat probes every time I run a site, but have no ability to actually attack me (of course you never know how many ships are waiting in the system, so I always have to leave the site)
Xyfu Minmatar Applied Mechanics	Posted - 2011.01.19 08:02:00 - [7] How the hell did you find a wormhole on Sisi!? _____ ^ That is a sig line. It should be there without me having to put one in.
Miss Apple	Posted - 2011.01.19 10:00:00 - [8] Originally by: Kleatus Slick imo if you are going to give up a launcher and cut your dps range down from 110+km down to 80ish km you might as well just move on down to a c3 that wasnt really YOUR opinion, was it? it's the cat pacing on your keyboard, mirite?
Bibosikus Gallente Universal Moose Federation	Posted - 2011.01.19 10:11:00 - [9] Originally by: Xyfu How the hell did you find a wormhole on Sisi!? Took a while - about 2 hours - to find a highsec static into a c4.. then some rooting around for w-space statics till i found a c3 and a c2. It was a PITA since most highsec w-space entries are K holes. But persistence paid off eventually. (It also helps to use the Deep Space Probe trick that lets you sort wheat from chaff so to speak).
Xyfu Minmatar Applied Mechanics	Posted - 2011.01.19 15:44:00 - [10] Originally by: Bibosikus Originally by: Xyfu How the hell did you find a wormhole on Sisi!? Took a while - about 2 hours - to find a highsec static into a c4.. then some rooting around for w-space statics till i found a c3 and a c2. It was a PITA since most highsec w-space entries are K holes. But persistence paid off eventually. (It also helps to use the Deep Space Probe trick that lets you sort wheat from chaff so to speak). Trick? _____ ^ That is a sig line. It should be there without me having to put one in.

Daneel Trevize Black Viper Nomads	Posted - 2011.01.19 17:15:00 - [11] To sort sigs by size from 1 probe, and perhaps note which are > 4AU from celestials
Xyfu Minmatar Applied Mechanics	Posted - 2011.01.19 23:07:00 - [12] Originally by: Daneel Trevize To sort sigs by size from 1 probe, and perhaps note which are > 4AU from celestials All sigs appear within 4 AU of celestials, it's how they're designed. _____ ^ That is a sig line. It should be there without me having to put one in.
Bilbo II Serenity Engineering and Transport Company Syndicate.	Posted - 2011.01.19 23:16:00 - [13] Originally by: Xyfu Originally by: Daneel Trevize To sort sigs by size from 1 probe, and perhaps note which are > 4AU from celestials All sigs appear within 4 AU of celestials, it's how they're designed. Wormholes spawn as much as 6AU out. At least thats the farthest out I have every found one.
Daneel Trevize Black Viper Nomads	Posted - 2011.01.20 01:25:00 - [14] Indeed I believe you need the 8AU setting rather than 4AU to get wormholes, and that they're the only things beyond 4AU. Try it with a static if your have one and close it often.
Catari Taga Centre Of Attention Middle of Nowhere	Posted - 2011.01.20 03:25:00 - [15] Originally by: Xyfu All sigs appear within 4 AU of celestials, it's how they're designed. And this is why wormhole space is awesome, nearly 2 years after its release so many people still have no clue about it... --
Xyfu Minmatar Applied Mechanics	Posted - 2011.01.20 13:31:00 - [16] Originally by: Catari Taga Originally by: Xyfu All sigs appear within 4 AU of celestials, it's how they're designed. And this is why wormhole space is awesome, nearly 2 years after its release so many people still have no clue about it... Here's a tip, show some respect. _____ ^ That is a sig line. It should be there without me having to put one in.
Catari Taga Centre Of Attention Middle of Nowhere	Posted - 2011.01.20 13:36:00 - [17] Originally by: Xyfu Originally by: Catari Taga Originally by: Xyfu All sigs appear within 4 AU of celestials, it's how they're designed. And this is why wormhole space is awesome, nearly 2 years after its release so many people still have no clue about it... Here's a tip, show some respect. No it's not about respect, I seriously think it's awesome that there are parts of EVE where not everything is written down in some guide and at least some people can at least to some extent go exploring for real. It's a shame that once you figure it out it all becomes as static as the rest of EVE, it would have been great to have more randomness in it. --
Xyfu Minmatar Applied Mechanics	Posted - 2011.01.20 15:52:00 - [18] Originally by: Catari Taga Originally by: Xyfu Originally by: Catari Taga Originally by: Xyfu All sigs appear within 4 AU of celestials, it's how they're designed. And this is why wormhole space is awesome, nearly 2 years after its release so many people still have no clue about it... Here's a tip, show some respect. No it's not about respect, I seriously think it's awesome that there are parts of EVE where not everything is written down in some guide and at least some people can at least to some extent go exploring for real. It's a shame that once you figure it out it all becomes as static as the rest of EVE, it would have been great to have more randomness in it. ah, I see, I thought you were being deliberately caustic. Sounds like it might be time for you to start investing in PvP. Never gets old. _____ ^ That is a sig line. It should be there without me having to put one in.
Carnella	Posted - 2011.01.20 22:42:00 - [19] Sorry, I'm kind of dense. I do a fair amount of exploring, but I just probe everything and don't really care what I find at this point, so I haven't worked out any of these tricks yet. Is the point I'm supposed to get from this that if a signature is further than 6 AU from a celestial, it's NOT a wormhole? I guess that would save me some time, since I never bother entering wormholes anymore.
Bilbo II Serenity Engineering and Transport Company Syndicate.	Posted - 2011.01.20 22:48:00 - [20] Originally by: Carnella Sorry, I'm kind of dense. I do a fair amount of exploring, but I just probe everything and don't really care what I find at this point, so I haven't worked out any of these tricks yet. Is the point I'm supposed to get from this that if a signature is further than 6 AU from a celestial, it's NOT a wormhole? I guess that would save me some time, since I never bother entering wormholes anymore. How about, if it IS further than 4AU it IS a WH

Headerman Minmatar Metanoia. Test Alliance Please Ignore	Posted - 2011.01.21 01:41:00 - [21] Some awesome info there from the OP. I guess the next question is, how MUCH cap is being neuted per ship, and what is the cycle time?
Xyfu Minmatar Applied Mechanics	Posted - 2011.01.21 09:15:00 - [22] Originally by: Headerman Some awesome info there from the OP. I guess the next question is, how MUCH cap is being neuted per ship, and what is the cycle time? [Vargur, Vargur fit] [Empty High slot] [Empty High slot] [Empty High slot] [Empty High slot] [Empty High slot] [Empty High slot] [Empty High slot] Invulnerability Field II X-Large Shield Booster II Large Capacitor Battery II Large Capacitor Battery II Large Capacitor Battery II Large Capacitor Battery II Power Diagnostic System II Power Diagnostic System II Power Diagnostic System II Power Diagnostic System II Power Diagnostic System II [Empty Rig slot] [Empty Rig slot] Sit around in a WH with that on sisi, and it should get you some very accurate numbers, 'cause you're just stable with the SB and invuln on. _____ ^ That is a sig line. It should be there without me having to put one in.
Bibosikus Gallente Universal Moose Federation	Posted - 2011.01.24 11:45:00 - [23] Edited by: Bibosikus on 24/01/2011 11:46:14 Deep Space Probe trick: Lauch one, set it to 256au. Scan & note down sig strengths and sig ID's. Then launch core probes and nail all sigs. Compare site types to original sig strength from dsp. Do this for 15-20 sites to get a decent empirical dataset. From then on (assuming same skills and ship and mods rigs etc.) you can launch a dsp and have a good idea of what's in a system. It's not 100% accurate, but you will find that all (eg.) 4/10 plexes have an (eg.) 0.28% sig strength. Basically it just helps you sort some of the wheat from the chaff. Neuting - C3 Sleeper BS were neuting me with about the equivalent of a small T2 neut mod. So between 5-6 GJ/sec each. A 63% cap stable ship should lasts around 3-3.5 minutes under triple BS neuting. A 40% cap stable boat lasts for 1 minute. So Proteus are basically screwed for c3's, unless they're getting cap transfer (which, since they are thundering about with MWD on a lot of the time, isn't easy). I warned him, but a corpmate took his Prot yesterday to do the nasty FFRD c3 mag site with two wingmen. He died in a fire when he was webbed, scrambled and BS triple neuted in the last wave. Previous to patch he could solo it :s (Edit: typo)
Floydd Heywood	Posted - 2011.01.24 15:26:00 - [24] Originally by: Bibosikus Originally by: Xyfu How the hell did you find a wormhole on Sisi!? Took a while - about 2 hours - to find a highsec static into a c4.. then some rooting around for w-space statics till i found a c3 and a c2. It was a PITA since most highsec w-space entries are K holes. But persistence paid off eventually. I remember that wormholes do not spawn on Sisi. Was this changed or am I imagining things? So you found normal wormholes just like on TQ? Did they spawn/despawn/collapse normally? Or were they static, i.e. once collapsed wouldn't respawn, or wouldn't collapse in the first place?
Bibosikus Gallente Universal Moose Federation	Posted - 2011.01.25 01:01:00 - [25] Originally by: Floydd Heywood I remember that wormholes do not spawn on Sisi. Was this changed or am I imagining things? So you found normal wormholes just like on TQ? Did they spawn/despawn/collapse normally? Or were they static, i.e. once collapsed wouldn't respawn, or wouldn't collapse in the first place?[/quote TBH I wasn't aware of any spawning issues. I simply went looking for a k-space static into w-space. Once I had found a static to a C4 (in lowsec near Jita, can't remember exact system name) I stopped looking. And yes, once inside I searched for further statics and found them, and bookmarked several other J systems which I used for testing. The connections de/respawned 24-26 hours later as they do on TQ.
Floydd Heywood	Posted - 2011.01.25 08:52:00 - [26] Thanks. I tried it myself and could get out of my w-space as usual. I also ran a C3 site with neuting sleepers (FFS) and learned that I don't even have to modify my barely cap-stable fittings. Using one battleship and one logistics the sleepers die long before my cap is drained. Could be a little trickier in the sigs where there are multiple neuting battleships.
Toxik Jeeves	Posted - 2011.01.26 12:00:00 - [27] Thanks for the heads up, Bib. Now if only the sisi would come back up so i could try out my new Legion fits in a c2-c3......


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