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Anubis Xian
Word Bearers of Chaos
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Posted - 2011.01.16 23:17:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Anubis Xian on 16/01/2011 23:18:47 Current Dread Bonuses:
Moros - 5% Capital Hybrid Dmg and 20% Drone hitpoints and Dmg Naglfar - Capital Projectile Dmg and RoF Phoenix - 5% Capital Launcher RoF and 5% Missile Kinetic Dmg Revelation - 10% Capital Energy Cap Use and 5% Capital Energy RoF
Current Titan Bonuses: (Turret/Launcher bonuses only)
Avatar - 100% Capital Energy Dmg per level Erebus - 100% Capital Hybrid Dmg per level Leviathon - 125% Citadel Kinetic Missile Dmg per level Ragnarok - 125% Capital Projectile Dmg per level
Now, this is not an attempt to nerf or change Titans in any way, this is merely to show the disparity in potential dmg output.
My initial proposal is this:
Change Dread Role to Capital Interdiction, allowing them to fit a hi slot jump/warp drive jamming module with reasonable range:
Capital Navigation Nullifier I 10000 CPU and 50000 PG Hi Slot Activation cost 10000 GJ (subject to skilled reduction) Optimal Range 100 km Duration 12 sec Can be fitted on Dreadnought
Another change is Dread skill bonuses:
Role Bonus: -99% CPU Need for CNN and 100% Bonus to Relevant Capital Weapon Dmg (still half the dps of Titans)
Moros - 50% Capital Hybrid Dmg and 10% armor hp Naglfar - 50% Capital Projectile and Capital Missile Explosive Dmg and 10% shield hp Phoenix - 50% Capital Missile Kinetic Dmg and 5% shield resist Revelation - 50% Capital Energy Dmg and 5% armor resist
They all get more survivability, more useable damage, and an actual role against super capitals.
Siege module should be either removed or made generic to all ships (guns/missiles/sentries only).
Originally by: CCP Oveur The client handles no logic, it is simply a dumb terminal.
CINA
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Val'Dore
Word Bearers of Chaos
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Posted - 2011.01.17 20:44:00 -
[2]
I like this :o
~No matter what happens, somebody will find a way to take it too seriously.~ |
Aubrey Vherokior
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Posted - 2011.01.17 21:47:00 -
[3]
As a future Revelation pilot on my main, i support this.
Bring on giant bubbles! :D
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Josef Huffenpuff
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.01.17 21:55:00 -
[4]
So ....
Instead of using a cheap HIC with transversal we use an expensive Dread which the titan can oneshot? We boost the Damage output of the dread, but it still cant hit anything because it's tracking is screwed ? We don't do anything about the real problem, which is overpowered Mom's making dreads a sitting duck?
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Val'Dore
Word Bearers of Chaos
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Posted - 2011.01.18 02:56:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Josef Huffenpuff So ....
Instead of using a cheap HIC with transversal we use an expensive Dread which the titan can oneshot?
Or both? And the Titan can only one shot one Dread per fight.
Quote: We boost the Damage output of the dread, but it still cant hit anything because it's tracking is screwed ?
No more screwed than a Titan's tracking.
Quote: We don't do anything about the real problem, which is overpowered Mom's making dreads a sitting duck?
How long does it take a pack of Ogre IIs to kill a fighter bomber?
~No matter what happens, somebody will find a way to take it too seriously.~ |
Anubis Xian
Iron Warriors of Chaos
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Posted - 2011.01.21 17:09:00 -
[6]
So the good ideas just sink then?
Originally by: CCP Oveur The client handles no logic, it is simply a dumb terminal.
CINA
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Val'Dore
Word Bearers of Chaos
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Posted - 2011.01.23 07:08:00 -
[7]
Seems to be the case. |
Mecinia Lua
Galactic Express The Spire Collective
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Posted - 2011.01.23 07:57:00 -
[8]
I'd rather see the Capital Interdictor be a t2 ship using the dread hulls.
For the Dreadnought I'd rather see some new weapon systems (like AOE weapons, or weapons that deal more damage against capitals) or new siege systems. Such systems should be designed to do maximum damage to capitals and minimal damage to subcaps.
A boost to capital weapon damage as pointed out here would be a bad idea. I target paint the enemy battleships and pop them in 1 hit.
What you got here is a ship trying to do 2 roles in 1 hull, be the DPS and the Interdiction, that's not a good idea. |
Sigras
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Posted - 2011.01.23 08:52:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Val'Dore
Originally by: Josef Huffenpuff So ....
Instead of using a cheap HIC with transversal we use an expensive Dread which the titan can oneshot?
Or both? And the Titan can only one shot one Dread per fight.
LOL one dread per 5 minutes . . . in a laggy fleet fight, thats about how often everyone gets to shoot a target.
Originally by: Val'Dore
Quote: We boost the Damage output of the dread, but it still cant hit anything because it's tracking is screwed ?
No more screwed than a Titan's tracking.
Wow you dont fly capital ships do you?
siege modules take away 50% of your tracking and 60% of a missile's explosion velocity. They also prevent you from moving
Originally by: Val'Dore
Quote: We don't do anything about the real problem, which is overpowered Mom's making dreads a sitting duck?
How long does it take a pack of Ogre IIs to kill a fighter bomber?
Well I dont have any personal experience with fighter bombers, but I know that my fighters can tank ogres just fine.
Honestly, I think the role of the dread is actually OK, it just needs to be brought into line with the supercarrier and dread on a cost for cost basis.
I think the best way to do this would be to change the siege module to give +30% resists across the board, remove the bonuses to local tanking and remove the "disallows assistance" feature. This brings them in line with supercarriers allowing for effective, inexpensive operations supported by carriers. |
Val'Dore
Word Bearers of Chaos
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Posted - 2011.01.23 08:58:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Mecinia Lua I'd rather see the Capital Interdictor be a t2 ship using the dread hulls.
T2 ships tend to be specialized version of the T1 ship... but Dreads are already ultraspecialized.
Quote: For the Dreadnought I'd rather see some new weapon systems (like AOE weapons, or weapons that deal more damage against capitals)
Surely you aren't hinting at a Capital Smartbomb or a Dread version of the old school Doomsday Device. That would be silly.
Quote: or new siege systems.
Nobody enjoys siege systems.
Quote: Such systems should be designed to do maximum damage to capitals and minimal damage to subcaps.
As long as Fighters and FBs also do minimal damage to subcaps.
Quote: A boost to capital weapon damage as pointed out here would be a bad idea. I target paint the enemy battleships and pop them in 1 hit.
So? My Abaddon can do that to cruisers. Why is it so frackin evil if a Dread can do it a BS? (which it can't even with the change)
Quote: What you got here is a ship trying to do 2 roles in 1 hull, be the DPS and the Interdiction, that's not a good idea.
Titan = DPS, Tank, Booster, Jump Bridge, SMA, Corp Hangar, Clone Vat, DD, etc Supercarrior = Mega DPS, Tank, Booster, Clone Vat, SMA, Corp Hangar, PECM, RR, etc Carrier = Booster, SMA, Corp Hangar, RR, etc Dreadnought = DPS, Capital Interdiction
So tell me again why a Dread can't have two nice things going for it? |
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Val'Dore
Word Bearers of Chaos
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Posted - 2011.01.23 09:05:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Sigras
Originally by: Val'Dore
Originally by: Josef Huffenpuff So ....
Instead of using a cheap HIC with transversal we use an expensive Dread which the titan can oneshot?
Or both? And the Titan can only one shot one Dread per fight.
LOL one dread per 5 minutes . . . in a laggy fleet fight, thats about how often everyone gets to shoot a target.
Alright, every 5 minutes. Still, a lot can happen in 5 minutes and this change adds more tank to Dreads.
Quote:
Originally by: Val'Dore
Quote: We boost the Damage output of the dread, but it still cant hit anything because it's tracking is screwed ?
No more screwed than a Titan's tracking.
Wow you dont fly capital ships do you?
A Dread with no siege module has the same tracking issues as a Titan. Or are you trying to argue otherwise?
Quote: siege modules take away 50% of your tracking and 60% of a missile's explosion velocity. They also prevent you from moving
Completely irrelevant to this thread.
Quote:
Originally by: Val'Dore
Quote: We don't do anything about the real problem, which is overpowered Mom's making dreads a sitting duck?
How long does it take a pack of Ogre IIs to kill a fighter bomber?
Well I dont have any personal experience with fighter bombers, but I know that my fighters can tank ogres just fine.
I think my Defender change idea helps with that. |
Mecinia Lua
Galactic Express The Spire Collective
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Posted - 2011.01.23 09:12:00 -
[12]
The problem is you have to strike a balance. If you make the Dreadnought good against subcaps and caps then it will become the next battleship and you'll end up in the same problem.
I would not be adverse to fighter bombers being less effective against subcaps.
Siege System might be the wrong term. Anti-Capital System might be better. Instead of not moving, you cannot target subcaps. Damage bonus would put the Dread into a good DPS range, (less than the Titan but more than it has currently).
I would not have a DD like it was before a weapon that hits everything on a grid is to much. But a weapon system like our current bombs that dealt damage in a certain radius I wouldn't be adverse to. Like Minmatar might develop a Flak Cannon that has shells that explode on impact dealing damage in say a 10km radius or 15km. No bigger than that. Caldari might have a missile that does it. Amarr some sort of ball plasma weapon. Gallente might develop a hybrid version. Such weapons would help break up a blob. You'd need to make the explosive velocity etc such that it dealt the best damage to capital ships while doing almost minimal damage to smaller ships.
I wouldn't be opposed to a Capital Size Smartbomb.
Dreads could be given new roles with new systems to replace the siege modules or new weapon systems.
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Val'Dore
Word Bearers of Chaos
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Posted - 2011.01.24 19:03:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Mecinia Lua The problem is you have to strike a balance. If you make the Dreadnought good against subcaps and caps then it will become the next battleship and you'll end up in the same problem.
Hardly, Dreads have a lot of cons compared to BSes.
Quote: Siege System might be the wrong term. Anti-Capital System might be better. Instead of not moving, you cannot target subcaps. Damage bonus would put the Dread into a good DPS range, (less than the Titan but more than it has currently).
Arbitrary limitations are only bad. Why shouldn't it be able to engage a Drake blob?
Quote: I would not have a DD like it was before a weapon that hits everything on a grid is to much. But a weapon system like our current bombs that dealt damage in a certain radius I wouldn't be adverse to. Like Minmatar might develop a Flak Cannon that has shells that explode on impact dealing damage in say a 10km radius or 15km. No bigger than that. Caldari might have a missile that does it. Amarr some sort of ball plasma weapon. Gallente might develop a hybrid version. Such weapons would help break up a blob. You'd need to make the explosive velocity etc such that it dealt the best damage to capital ships while doing almost minimal damage to smaller ships.
If Dreads had a Capital Bomb, that would be cool.
Quote: I wouldn't be opposed to a Capital Size Smartbomb.
No Capital Pilot would be.
~No matter what happens, somebody will find a way to take it too seriously.~ |
Iam Widdershins
Project Nemesis WE FORM VOLTRON
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Posted - 2011.01.24 20:58:00 -
[14]
You guys might as well go make your own damn game with all these ridiculous changes. With all the weird crap you guys come up with, it certainly wouldn't be EVE anymore.
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Beck Thomson
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Posted - 2011.01.25 22:03:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Beck Thomson on 25/01/2011 22:04:16 Just give the dread a 5th high-slot, that would allow the dread to use a smart-bomb to defend it self against drones/FB's etc. you know, the ones it CAN'T target now. Maybe a smart-bomb damage/range bonus. and remove the unused extra non-bonus turret/launcher hard point (like the turret point on the Phoenix) so it doesn't get extra DPS.
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mine mi
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Posted - 2011.01.26 03:41:00 -
[16]
may be not a dread, may be a T2 version or a Tier 2.( new models :))
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Sandra River
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Posted - 2011.02.05 15:10:00 -
[17]
Originally by: mine mi may be not a dread, may be a T2 version or a Tier 2.( new models :))
More like NEW MODELS D:
They will take a fantastic amount of work to decide upon, and then 50% of eve's player base will ***** unceasingly that they are ugly and a blight on the game. (This same 50% will basically complain about anything like that though.)
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Val'Dore
Word Bearers of Chaos Word of Chaos Undivided
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Posted - 2011.02.05 17:57:00 -
[18]
I still don't think there is anything wrong with this idea. Maybe remove the tackling role, but the weapon changes are golden.
~No matter what happens, somebody will find a way to take it too seriously.~ |
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