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Sader Rykane
Amarr Midnight Sentinels Midnight Space Syndicate
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Posted - 2011.01.19 04:46:00 -
[1]
I'm running a mission in my MWD Absolution right now... I'm almost ready to sell my paladin.
I have quite literally right click, drop menu'd 80% less.
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Mara Rinn
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Posted - 2011.01.19 05:30:00 -
[2]
Key binds certainly make it feel more like we're commanding a spaceship, not driving a spreadsheet, don't they :) -- [Aussie players: join ANZAC channel] |
Director Mak
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Posted - 2011.01.19 17:39:00 -
[3]
Wait did they enable MWDs for all missions or something?
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Papa RainDance
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Posted - 2011.01.19 18:33:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Director Mak Wait did they enable MWDs for all missions or something?
Yeah I'm curious about the title as well. I'll go check, but I don't think so, figure something would have been mentioned...
Good hunting, Papa Good Hunting, -Papa
"Non-essential personnel, abandon ship." Admiral Yakiya Tovil-Toba's last command |
Rhys Onasi
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Posted - 2011.01.19 19:12:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Papa RainDance
Originally by: Director Mak Wait did they enable MWDs for all missions or something?
Yeah I'm curious about the title as well. I'll go check, but I don't think so, figure something would have been mentioned...
Good hunting, Papa
They enabled MWDs in all deadspaces. (Missions, complexes, etc.)
You guys didn't hear about this? All the missioners/explorers I know have been rather jolly about the whole thing for the month or so. Devs posted it on the forums awhile back.
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Papa RainDance
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Posted - 2011.01.19 19:52:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Rhys Onasi They enabled MWDs in all deadspaces. (Missions, complexes, etc.)
You guys didn't hear about this? All the missioners/explorers I know have been rather jolly about the whole thing for the month or so. Devs posted it on the forums awhile back.
Heh, glad to hear it! I was not aware they did this, but I think it's a great change. Good Hunting, -Papa
"Non-essential personnel, abandon ship." Admiral Yakiya Tovil-Toba's last command |
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CCP Dropbear
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Posted - 2011.01.19 21:57:00 -
[7]
Yup, confirming the change. (Related thread) --
Originally by: CCP Explorer What could possibly go (more) wrong?
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Earantius
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Posted - 2011.01.20 07:27:00 -
[8]
This is indeed very exciting. I am pleased with this change, and thanks for bringing attention to it.
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Drake Krain
Caldari Space Nerds of Fortune
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Posted - 2011.01.20 08:00:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Drake Krain on 20/01/2011 08:00:34 Anyone experimented with this yet? Does the increased signature negate the speed for mission rats?
EDIT: Spelling
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Zakarazor
Amarr Inadeptus Mechanicus
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Posted - 2011.01.20 08:48:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Sader Rykane I'm running a mission in my MWD Absolution right now... I'm almost ready to sell my paladin.
I have quite literally right click, drop menu'd 80% less.
...i need to finish BC 5...two days left!
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Mara Rinn
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Posted - 2011.01.20 10:26:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Drake Krain Anyone experimented with this yet? Does the increased signature negate the speed for mission rats?
Increased signature would indeed negate the speed except for the benefits that higher speed affords on its own: dictating range being the greatest of these, along with the ability to simply out-run missiles. I'm not too clear on the mathematics behind tracking vs sig radius vs speed at close range, sadly.
-- [Aussie players: join ANZAC channel] |
Papa RainDance
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Posted - 2011.01.20 14:54:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Drake Krain Edited by: Drake Krain on 20/01/2011 08:00:34 Anyone experimented with this yet? Does the increased signature negate the speed for mission rats?
For turrets, yes it does. Generally speaking, the explosion of sig radius will negate any bonus you might have gotten in terms of traversal at range. Close up, the physical tracking is unaffected by signature, to my understanding, so you would benefit.
However, it is a poor choice against missile rats. There are some rats that just spew missiles. Against Cruiser/Frigate sized rats, this is not a problem as you sig radius without the MWD on is large enough to take full damage anyhow. However, against BS sized rats, the missiles will do considerably more damage than if it were off.
Overall, I think it's a good change, will make missions considerably faster even if it's just used for zipping between gates!
Good Hunting, -Papa
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"Non-essential personnel, abandon ship." Admiral Yakiya Tovil-Toba's last command |
Seriously Bored
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.01.20 15:14:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Papa RainDance However, against BS sized rats, the missiles will do considerably more damage than if it were off.
According to my understanding of missile damage, it's roughly equivalent to you leaving it off unless you're sitting still. The excessive speed you get from the MWD reduces damage compared to the explosion velocity of the opponent's missiles.
Using a MWD is roughly equivalent to slowboating around without any speed mods whatsoever (no AB, no MWD), unless you're not moving close to maximum velocity, in which case you'd take more damage.
Because ship direction matters with turrets and not with missiles, MWDs actually make you take more damage against turret ships than against missile ships in missions, since your transversal will usually be low on approach to your target.
ùùùùù
Originally by: CCP Big Dumb Object When I nerf something, it takes 2-3 months for your dreams to be crushed.
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Papa RainDance
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Posted - 2011.01.20 17:25:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Papa RainDance on 20/01/2011 17:28:18
Originally by: Seriously Bored
Originally by: Papa RainDance However, against BS sized rats, the missiles will do considerably more damage than if it were off.
According to my understanding of missile damage, it's roughly equivalent to you leaving it off unless you're sitting still. The excessive speed you get from the MWD reduces damage compared to the explosion velocity of the opponent's missiles.
Using a MWD is roughly equivalent to slowboating around without any speed mods whatsoever (no AB, no MWD), unless you're not moving close to maximum velocity, in which case you'd take more damage.
Because ship direction matters with turrets and not with missiles, MWDs actually make you take more damage against turret ships than against missile ships in missions, since your transversal will usually be low on approach to your target.
I decided to do a little graphing to test. Turns out you were right! Here's my results;
Missiles vs. MWD Firstly, I am testing this with a Cruiser signature size(125m) against Battleship sized weaponry. I did this because since you signature is large enough to take full damage against Frigate and Cruiser sized weaponry anyways, the explosion of sig against these weapons does not matter.
This image shows the first test, using a Raven with all V skills and a single Cruiser Launcher II with basic ammunition. With a Signature radius of 125m traveling at 200m/s, you will take about 15dps.
Conversely, turning on you MWD, which increases sig radius by 500%(from 125m to 600m) and increases speed by 500%(from 200m/s to 1200m/s) we see a damage taken drop from 15dps to about 12.5 dps, which is about 20% less damage.
Conclusion: In most scenarios, using an MWD will decrease damage taken form Battleship rats, so long as you are using a Cruiser and above. The damage from Cruise and Torps will still increase dramatically by using an MWD on a Frig. Don't sit it
Turret Angular Velocity Test This test is to see how the MWD angular velocity works. While having a much larger Sig radius makes it easier to track targets, the speed makes it harder. For this test I am using an Abaddon with a single Mega Pulse Laser II.
This graph shows damage taken on a Cruiser signature of 125m with maximum transversal angle of 90 degrees with it's regular velocity of 200m/s. Considering BS tracking speed, the BS would need to be about 15km out to apply maximum damage with it's tracking.
In this one we have activated the MWD. We see a decreased of damage/range ratio, basically pushing our damage table about 3km away. Note that this does not show proper transversal, this is worst case scenario and maximum orbit speed.
Conclusion: The turret data suggests that there is about a 30% decrease in damage taken while using the MWD. Additionally, this pushes the range table back for the target BS to get maximum tracking on you. HOWEVER, I suggest you take this data with a grain of salt; it's much harder to test turrets without actually testing against live rats. The turret mechanics are significantly more complex than missile.
Additionally, this assumes you are maintaining that high velocity while being at very short range which is unrealistic. My spider senses tell me that the damage will be roughly the same either way, except for initial rush into combat where you have no transversal but high sig.
Please note that this is not an in-depth test and is theorycrafted. Use on tranquility at your own volition Though if you do do a live test please come share your results!
Good Hunting, -Papa
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"Non-essential personnel, abandon ship." Admiral Yakiya Tovil-Toba's last command |
Starlight Twilight
Amarr
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Posted - 2011.01.21 09:10:00 -
[15]
I for one am loving this change (looks at Duo of Death) used to take me 1 minute to kill everything, 5 minutes to slowboat AB into tractor range. now its 1 minute to kill everything 1 minutes to microwarp into tractor range I remember once one of the battleships ran to 95km range... god I hate that mission
Star Light Star bright, The first star I see tonight, I wish I may, I wish I might, Have the wish I wish tonight. I wish for chocolate! |
Obsession Paranoia
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Posted - 2011.01.21 11:20:00 -
[16]
Most of you seem to be completely missing an important point. Sure, the MWD might not help you tank, but it does mean you can keep at your optimal range 100% of the time. Optimal range of 40k, rats too close? MWD out.
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Scrutt5
Fatality.
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Posted - 2011.01.21 12:45:00 -
[17]
Personaly I welcome the change, MWD in a mission and your probable with 8AU probes.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.01.21 13:25:00 -
[18]
ABs will always be better if your goal is to speed tank. MWDs will always be better if your goal is to travel and/or manoeuvre. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
vicror
Critical Density
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Posted - 2011.01.22 02:40:00 -
[19]
/ going to fit and abso and see it op is full of crap about it being better than pally.
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Kyra Felann
Gallente The Scope
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Posted - 2011.01.23 06:12:00 -
[20]
Yay! Now I can use blasters for more missions! |
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2011.01.23 06:19:00 -
[21]
Originally by: vicror / going to fit and abso and see it op is full of crap about it being better than pally.
probably, abso is pretty meh in my experiences with it. |
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