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Levi Saul
The EVE Observer
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Posted - 2011.01.21 17:45:00 -
[1]
(PLACID REGION ù 1/21/113) A proposal to change the function of the New Eden Assembly, an interstellar debate society, into something more caused a stir among members this week.
Benjamin Shepherd, founder of the NEA, had put forth proposals to create an NEA Congress and an economic committee. The Congress was to be a separate entity from the existing NEA Council.
ôIt was different in that corporations would be able to represent themselves, and make trade agreements and cooperate together,ö Shepherd said.
The idea behind the economic committee was to promote economic development in Black Rise and Placid, areas where Shepherd felt he was already familiar with the markets.
ôThe claim that only my æclose alliesÆ were to serve on it is false, as I spoke with somewhat negative standing groups like LDIS, etc,ö he said. ôThis committee was to be individual-based, not corporate-based.ö
Not everyone agreed with ShepherdÆs plans, however, and one person in particular was outspoken in his criticism. In a message to fellow NEA Council members, Julianus Soter gave a scathing assessment of the proposed changes.
ôIt would be a perversion of everything the NEA stood for. What made the NEA stand apart was the fact it did not claim any moral or legal authority over the disparate factions of the Cluster,ö Soter wrote. ôThis broke down the main roadblock to free and open discussion: only ideas were being discussed, and though rational debate, ideas could prevail.ö
Soter also questioned the mandate on which the Congress would draw its authority. He noted that the body would have ôno legal authority to exist, no territory to which it can command, no demographic basis for its existence, and no means by which it can enforce its laws.ö
As word of the proposed changes and the dissent among certain members came to light, early media commentary was largely negative. Among the criticisms was that the Congress would not give sufficient representation to capsuleers living outside of the four main empires and that the economic council would largely benefit the Intaki Liberation Front and Ishukone-Raata Enforcement Directive.
Responding to the latter. Shepherd said that while members of the ILF and I-RED have served in NEA leadership roles, they were duly elected by the larger NEA membership.
ôThe NEA was never a puppet of the ILF and I-RED. The Presidential elections that took place were fair, and the candidates that won were simply part of those groups,ö he said. ôOther Council members, such as Graelyn and Esna Pitoojee, ran, but lost. This is the way a democratic process works.ö
In the end, the proposal to make the changes was withdrawn. Shepherd said he plans to move forward with his ideas in another format, independent of the NEA. There will, however, be some changes made to the NEA council.
ôThe Council will be renamed the NEA Committee, and will serve only to moderate and maintain the Assembly itself,ö he said. ôI will remain on it, but a new charter will be created by everyone within the group that puts an emphasis on moderation. I never was and never plan to be some sort of authoritarian capsuleer; that's conspiratorial talk.ö
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Silas Vitalia
Khanid Provincial Vanguard Black Inquisition
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Posted - 2011.01.21 18:20:00 -
[2]
I wonder how much Soter paid for this 'report?'
It is quite saddening that a small number of outspoken opponents (2 or 3 was it?) of this initiative seem to have sunk the entire endeavor before it even started.
Kudos to them for manipulating the conversation in their favor, though with that preemptive press leak....very shrewd moves.
Shrewd moves or not I feel this says more about the NEA's 'sensitivity' to public opinion than on any strength of arguments from the dissenters.
Try and please everyone and you end up pleasing no one.
Silas Vitalia CEO Khanid Provincial Vanguard Open for Recruitment!
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Julianus Soter
Gallente Moira.
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Posted - 2011.01.21 19:20:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Julianus Soter on 21/01/2011 19:20:42 Why would I pay money for something when the resolution in question has already been resoundingly defeated? Mr. Saul appears to be giving a bit of context to the controversy, which I freely welcome, and expect others would appreciate, given the great amount of confusion about it.
You on the other hand, would seem to want simply to sweep this under the rug of discarded ideas. At the very least, accept defeat gracefully, Silas. Griping at news reporters is a sure sign of the inadequacy of one's agenda and ideas.
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Rodj Blake
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2011.01.21 19:45:00 -
[4]
It's this sort of chicanery that makes me glad that I've never had any involvement in this talking shop.
Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
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Myxx
Risen Angels
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Posted - 2011.01.21 19:46:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Rodj Blake It's this sort of chicanery that makes me glad that I've never had any involvement in this talking shop.
Why am I agreeing with Rodj Blake? This isnt supposed to be possible! --
Originally by: CCP Explorer (and if you guys would also stop using Drakes it would be really appreciated, kthxbye).
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Rodj Blake
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2011.01.21 19:49:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Myxx
Originally by: Rodj Blake It's this sort of chicanery that makes me glad that I've never had any involvement in this talking shop.
Why am I agreeing with Rodj Blake? This isnt supposed to be possible!
Sooner or later, everyone agrees with me.
Whether they want to or not.
Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
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Aria Jenneth
Caldari Kumiho's Smile Naraka.
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Posted - 2011.01.21 20:31:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Myxx
Originally by: Rodj Blake It's this sort of chicanery that makes me glad that I've never had any involvement in this talking shop.
Why am I agreeing with Rodj Blake? This isnt supposed to be possible!
To be blunt, it's because neither of you sees very far beyond your locking range.
Originally by: Silas Vitalia It is quite saddening that a small number of outspoken opponents (2 or 3 was it?) of this initiative seem to have sunk the entire endeavor before it even started.
The endeavor sunk because its aim was, and is, as Shepherd thankfully seems to have realized, at odds with the basic nature of the NEA.
The NEA is, as the sneering fools above note, a "talking room," but that's something much more important than they make it out to be: it's a place for dialog and diplomacy that would otherwise occur in a more chaotic and less civil manner.
It's a place to talk instead of shoot; most of its detractors would apparently rather be shooting, either because they desire a military victory above all or because they just don't see any benefit to talking.
The thing is, to serve this role, the NEA must be truly neutral. It cannot have political aims itself, and EVERYTHING is political. Ergo, the only aim it can afford to have is to provide the best forum for discussion possible. I drafted the current charter with that in mind.
Mr. Shepherd, apparently, decided he wanted something more. What he should have done is what he has decided to do: start a new, separate project aiming to establish what would gradually metamorphose into a sort of governing body, complete with military cooperation among members and so on. But apparently, he decided to try to leverage the NEA's success to provide his new idea a boost.
It's understandable: from the looks of things, he didn't want to have to start from scratch. Unfortunately, his proposition would have destroyed the NEA, and with no guarantees of success.
Quote: Kudos to them for manipulating the conversation in their favor, though with that preemptive press leak....very shrewd moves.
As noted above, the press release would apparently have been too late to influence the outcome. However, the fact is that the conversation-- at least for those of us dedicated to preserving the NEA's mission-- didn't need much manipulation.
The fact of what was being done was quite enough.
Ms. Rhiannon resigned in protest, which was a little loud of her-- but I'd have done the same, had the measure gone anywhere.
Quote: Shrewd moves or not I feel this says more about the NEA's 'sensitivity' to public opinion than on any strength of arguments from the dissenters.
Maybe about Shepherd's. The conclusion wasn't an NEA collective decision; it was a private call by Shepherd. Also, Shepherd, while the NEA's founder, is not the NEA.
... As I believe the reaction to his proposals may have pointed out to him rather sharply.
Personally, I oppose any effort to revise the existing NEA or reframe the Charter; such changes are unnecessary and will only serve to undermine Shepherd's own accomplishment in establishing the NEA further.
Quote: Try and please everyone and you end up pleasing no one.
That's why the NEA is designed to please only those with an interest in civil discourse.
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Myxx
Risen Angels
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Posted - 2011.01.21 21:14:00 -
[8]
Thats an interesting perspective...
"Sneering fool" is new, though. Can't say I've been called that yet, to my face at least. --
Originally by: CCP Explorer (and if you guys would also stop using Drakes it would be really appreciated, kthxbye).
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Tiberius Wenchel
Gallente Preta Light Industries Naraka.
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Posted - 2011.01.23 00:13:00 -
[9]
Last I checked, the effort hasn't been defeated. I am not surprised by the tendency of baseliners to blindly consume all presented media as truth. I am, however, surprised by that same tendency among capsuleers. I seem to recall some tests of my own critical thinking abilities before being accepted into the capsuleer program.
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Senn Typhos
Anshar Incorporated
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Posted - 2011.01.23 02:16:00 -
[10]
If you're going to disbelieve and complain about any article released by a media entity, freelance or otherwise, perhaps you should avoid galnet channels. Save yourself some time and energy.
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Tiberius Wenchel
Preta Light Industries Naraka.
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Posted - 2011.01.23 02:42:00 -
[11]
I am only attempting to provide the readers of the Summit with correct information, something many of our media outlets seem to overlook these days.
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Levi Saul
The EVE Observer
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Posted - 2011.01.23 04:06:00 -
[12]
At the time this article was written, the proposed vote had been withdrawn from consideration by Mr. Shepherd. Since then, it was determined that under the provisions of the NEA charter, the withdrawal was a procedural error.
In general, I do not favor editing an article once it is published. Too many post-publication edits can lead to questions of the integrity of the original piece.
I plan a follow up following the conclusion of the NEA Council's vote, either way it goes. |
Syyl'ara
Gallente Intaki Prosperity Initiative
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Posted - 2011.01.24 05:48:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Syyl''ara on 24/01/2011 05:50:18
Originally by: Levi Saul In general, I do not favor editing an article once it is published. Too many post-publication edits can lead to questions of the integrity of the original piece.
One wonders why the emphasis here seems to be on perception of integrity rather than the actual integrity itself.
If an article needs a number of post-publication corrections, perhaps its integrity should be questioned.
Personally, I find the willingness of a journalist to admit errors and make corrections on the record to be a sign of said attribute. Likewise, when -despite new revelations- they resist doing so, I start to suspect there may be a conflict of interest at play. I've much respected your contributions to ANN in general, it would be sad to see you descend along the path of tainted "journalism" that your peers have. Perhaps you should seek a new outlet for your publications if you wish to stand out before you become yet another propagandist, indistinguishable from the rest.
Even a generic "Some information in or portions of this article have become outdated" disclaimer is not atypical for those in your profession when appropriate. |
Senn Typhos
Anshar Incorporated
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Posted - 2011.01.24 05:57:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Senn Typhos on 24/01/2011 05:57:25 I would feel remiss if it went without observation the specific individuals currently questioning the dichotomy of "perceived integrity" versus "actual integrity."
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Syyl'ara
Gallente Intaki Prosperity Initiative
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Posted - 2011.01.24 06:03:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Senn Typhos Edited by: Senn Typhos on 24/01/2011 05:57:25 I would feel remiss if it went without observation the specific individuals currently questioning the dichotomy of "perceived integrity" versus "actual integrity."
Make an accusation or don't, this cowardly habit of making coy, passive-aggressive statements grows tiresome.
Or perhaps in language you'd understand: grow a pair. |
Senn Typhos
Anshar Incorporated
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Posted - 2011.01.24 06:18:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Syyl'ara Edited by: Syyl''ara on 24/01/2011 06:12:13
Originally by: Senn Typhos Edited by: Senn Typhos on 24/01/2011 05:57:25 I would feel remiss if it went without observation the specific individuals currently questioning the dichotomy of "perceived integrity" versus "actual integrity."
Make an accusation or don't, this cowardly habit of making coy, passive-aggressive statements grows tiresome.
Or perhaps in language you'd understand: grow a pair.
I'll give you an example: You and other Serpentis-aligned individuals are putting up a sustained effort to legitimize a propaganda outlet that publishes false and deceptive reports with cherry-picked or outright fabricated information to further your criminal agendas. See, it really isn't that hard to not hide behind ambiguity and false civility.
I made no attempt to veil my words. You, like your organization, are devoid of integrity. I am uncertain where that became unclear.
I do, however, find it interesting you took no time to critique our journalists until your lackluster variety of banner-waving was called into question.
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Syyl'ara
Gallente Intaki Prosperity Initiative
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Posted - 2011.01.24 06:23:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Syyl''ara on 24/01/2011 06:26:14
Originally by: Senn Typhos
Originally by: Syyl'ara Edited by: Syyl''ara on 24/01/2011 06:12:13
Originally by: Senn Typhos Edited by: Senn Typhos on 24/01/2011 05:57:25 I would feel remiss if it went without observation the specific individuals currently questioning the dichotomy of "perceived integrity" versus "actual integrity."
Make an accusation or don't, this cowardly habit of making coy, passive-aggressive statements grows tiresome.
Or perhaps in language you'd understand: grow a pair.
I'll give you an example: You and other Serpentis-aligned individuals are putting up a sustained effort to legitimize a propaganda outlet that publishes false and deceptive reports with cherry-picked or outright fabricated information to further your criminal agendas. See, it really isn't that hard to not hide behind ambiguity and false civility.
I made no attempt to veil my words. You, like your organization, are devoid of integrity. I am uncertain where that became unclear.
I do, however, find it interesting you took no time to critique our journalists until your lackluster variety of banner-waving was called into question.
I don't offer critiques on articles containing subject material I am not personally well versed in. That would be waltzing into the affairs of others where they are far more capable of offering opinions of their own. I do and will offer counter-position when statements are made that directly contradict facts I have personally observed.
Your last statement is, again, a veiled insult. You are attempting to paint me as only responding when my interests are harmed by a "revelation" when it is actually that I only responded when stories were published I found in direct opposition to my personal experience.
I find it amusing that your preferred method of operation is to repeatedly feign ignorance. |
Alexis Du'Volle
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Posted - 2011.01.24 11:04:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Syyl'ara Rant
You just can't help yourselves can you?
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Senn Typhos
Anshar Incorporated
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Posted - 2011.01.24 17:23:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Alexis Du'Volle
Originally by: Syyl'ara Rant
You just can't help yourselves can you?
Negative.
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