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Twisted Xistance
The Greif Wave
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Posted - 2011.01.25 01:46:00 -
[1]
So having browsed the tech 3 cruiser subs in more detail I have realised to my shock that having the skill set for command ships is a complete waste. As tech 3 cruisers can now have the command ship role bonus along with better everything it renders the ability to pilot, battlecruisers, heavy assault cruisers and command ships completely worthless.
Q: but command ships are a lot cheaper than tech 3 cruisers so there! A: well if we could re-alocate all those now wasted sp into industry skills then we'd have loads of iskies for tech 3 ships :oD
Q: but what about the skill loss if you lose a tech 3 ship A: dont care.... its a x2 skill... can work a x2 skil from nothing to 5 in no time anyway
so can we plix have all our sp back that we put into heavy assault ships, battleships, command ships, battlecruisers umm marauders so we can we can re-alocate them towards something thats still relevant.
If I'm completely wrong here and I've missed some vital point then could someone enlighten me because atm its looking like for many eve vets years of sp grinding have now been rendered worthless and 'if' that is the case I would deem it only fair that everyones sp should be resetlike what happened with the learning skills and let us all start over.
If CCP reset all our sp then what would everyone get instead of the now worthless ship skills theyve spent years building?
-First there was nothing then there was Xistance, then it all got kinda Twisted- |
Guillame Herschel
Gallente NME1
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Posted - 2011.01.25 01:47:00 -
[2]
-1/10
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Sawyer LaFleur
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Posted - 2011.01.25 01:50:00 -
[3]
could you give ccp all your stuff ? check out if they'll give you twice as much back ,
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Twisted Xistance
The Greif Wave
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Posted - 2011.01.25 01:52:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Twisted Xistance on 25/01/2011 01:52:35 and still... nobody has pointed out any actual flaws in what I wrote, instead they just troll the topic with idiotic rubbish... *sigh* -First there was nothing then there was Xistance, then it all got kinda Twisted- |
Liang Nuren
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Posted - 2011.01.25 01:55:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Liang Nuren on 25/01/2011 01:56:03 Comments: - Command ships are very close to as good as T3s at PVE. Some are better, some are worse. - PVE Command ships are less likely to be suicide ganked than PVE T3s. - Command Ships can actually take part in the PVP while running links. - Command ships will be primaried AFTER T3s. - Command ships ARE cheaper. - Command ships don't cost SP (you cry that you want industry skills and then say you don't care about SP loss?) - T3s are almost certain to be nerfed.
Oh, oh, and I trained command ships. :)
-Liang
Ed: Added a couple more. -- Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire On Twitter - Blog got deleted when Evepress died - |
Vabjekf
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.01.25 01:55:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Twisted Xistance Edited by: Twisted Xistance on 25/01/2011 01:52:35 and still... nobody has pointed out any actual flaws in what I wrote, instead they just troll the topic with idiotic rubbish... *sigh*
There aren't any. t3 was the latest in a line of mistakes CCP has implemented such as jump bridges, SCs, and warp to zero.
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Alucard291
SOLAR FLEET
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Posted - 2011.01.25 01:59:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Alucard291 on 25/01/2011 01:59:33 There are no real flaws to what you say except you see. CCP doesn't give back SP. End of story. They just nerf away whole races and gun types. Best example of this is the nanonerf :)
The simple reason for this is to make us - the hamsters in the wheel - keep running the endless training game :) and ofc it makes them money so now that everyone trained minmie its time to nerf those (in a year or so) :)
And since you're expecting them to break their business strategy for our sake well you clearly needed it explained ;)
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Caldariftw123
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Posted - 2011.01.25 02:01:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Alucard291 Edited by: Alucard291 on 25/01/2011 01:59:33 There are no real flaws to what you say except you see. CCP doesn't give back SP. End of story. They just nerf away whole races and gun types. Best example of this is the nanonerf :)
The simple reason for this is to make us - the hamsters in the wheel - keep running the endless training game :) and ofc it makes them money so now that everyone trained minmie its time to nerf those (in a year or so) :)
And since you're expecting them to break their business strategy for our sake well you clearly needed it explained ;)
Apart from the fact this is factually incorrect (they redistributed learning sp remember) .. heh
The OP is trolling like a McTrollop. T3 ARE better in many regards, yes, but 1 ship being better does not obsolete the others. Why? I can't be bothered actually explaining it to someone who is trolling and knows the answers already :D
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Steve Thomas
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.01.25 02:05:00 -
[9]
Frankly I would wrather just delete usless skillpoints but thats just me.
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Discrodia
Gallente The Scope
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Posted - 2011.01.25 02:07:00 -
[10]
You are full of rubbish, my good sir.
Addressing your points in order:
1. If you have the command ship bit, you loose out on your main tanking ability, and in that case you can't tank anywhere near as well as any command ship, not to mention numerous HACs.
2. I'm pretty sure that no one is going to spend 400mil on a ship thats as good or slightly better than a BC while costing 8-10x as much, thusly, there is no way the T3 is replacing the battlecruiser.
3. Command ships are again cheaper than T3s, and they have a better bonus, as well as potentially having more EHP, so they last longer under fire, and as they are worth less so they're less likely to be primaried, and that saves you money in the long run.
4. No one likes grinding. This is a fact of life. Ergo, no one wants to grind up the money for a T3 when they have the ability to buy an as-effective HAC or Command Ship for half to a quarter of the price.
5. If you like loosing your SP and thereby ******ing your other skill development, that's your problem not mine.
And for the last one, I'd proly spend them all the same way.
Originally by: anonymous WE JUST DID SCIENCE!
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Twisted Xistance
The Greif Wave
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Posted - 2011.01.25 02:07:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Liang Nuren Edited by: Liang Nuren on 25/01/2011 01:56:03 Comments: - Command ships are very close to as good as T3s at PVE. Some are better, some are worse. - PVE Command ships are less likely to be suicide ganked than PVE T3s. - Command Ships can actually take part in the PVP while running links. - Command ships will be primaried AFTER T3s. - Command ships ARE cheaper. - Command ships don't cost SP (you cry that you want industry skills and then say you don't care about SP loss?) - T3s are almost certain to be nerfed.
Oh, oh, and I trained command ships. :)
-Liang
Ed: Added a couple more.
- I wouldnt say commandships had anywere near the combat potential of tech 3 at all, look at the skill bonuses for all teh subsystems and you will see my point perfectly. - Strategic cruisers can run links and pvp to the best of my knowledge - Command ships are cheaper yes but their role is now pointless making them expensive gimp battleships - I dont care about sp loss but its quite annoying to have already build up a load of sp over years only to realise that it is now worthless - to the best of my knowledge there has been no mention of nerfing tech 3 ships. What I was saying was that 'if' I had indy skills intead of now worthless HAC/battlecruiser ect skills I could be in an orca mining low sec uber ore and raking in billions. we could all have hangers full of command ships... "oh I think I'll use the minmatar one today... or maybe the amarr one.. hmmm " -First there was nothing then there was Xistance, then it all got kinda Twisted- |
Arthur Frayn
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2011.01.25 02:09:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Arthur Frayn on 25/01/2011 02:09:14 When you look at raw performance, not all T3 ships beat their command ship counterparts. If you'll notice, Sleipnir > Loki. -- Eventus stultorum magister. |
Liang Nuren
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Posted - 2011.01.25 02:10:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Twisted Xistance
- I wouldnt say commandships had anywere near the combat potential of tech 3 at all, look at the skill bonuses for all teh subsystems and you will see my point perfectly.
Then you're wrong.
Quote: - Strategic cruisers can run links and pvp to the best of my knowledge
I want to see this 3 link Strategic Cruiser that's good to go into the thick of combat.
Quote: - Command ships are cheaper yes but their role is now pointless making them expensive gimp battleships
See above.
Quote: - I dont care about sp loss but its quite annoying to have already build up a load of sp over years only to realise that it is now worthless
Command Ships isn't that much SP - especially over T3s that do the same thing. QQ Moar.
Quote:
- to the best of my knowledge there has been no mention of nerfing tech 3 ships. What I was saying was that 'if' I had indy skills intead of now worthless HAC/battlecruiser ect skills I could be in an orca mining low sec uber ore and raking in billions. we could all have hangers full of command ships... "oh I think I'll use the minmatar one today... or maybe the amarr one.. hmmm "
I hear the mining in Frerstorn is pretty awesome.
-Liang -- Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire On Twitter - Blog got deleted when Evepress died - |
Twisted Xistance
The Greif Wave
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Posted - 2011.01.25 02:10:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Arthur Frayn Edited by: Arthur Frayn on 25/01/2011 02:09:14 When you look at raw performance, not all T3 ships beat their command ship counterparts. If you'll notice, Sleipnir > Loki.
with the subs all fived? -First there was nothing then there was Xistance, then it all got kinda Twisted- |
Twisted Xistance
The Greif Wave
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Posted - 2011.01.25 02:14:00 -
[15]
Liang Nuren what do you mean "that do the same thing".........
tech 3 ships can pretty much DO everything... theres no do the same thing about it, whatever anyone feilds against it just involves a quick dock, refit of subsystems and BANG ah ha! I now have your setup completely countered. -First there was nothing then there was Xistance, then it all got kinda Twisted- |
Liang Nuren
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Posted - 2011.01.25 02:17:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Liang Nuren on 25/01/2011 02:17:19
Originally by: Twisted Xistance Liang Nuren what do you mean "that do the same thing".........
tech 3 ships can pretty much DO everything... theres no do the same thing about it, whatever anyone feilds against it just involves a quick dock, refit of subsystems and BANG ah ha! I now have your setup completely countered.
Three things: - "T3s that do the same thing" - gang bonus T3s. - Roaming with a full set of fits for your T3 is supremely ******ed. - If you're docking at a place where you already have a lot of ****, what's the difference between simply hopping in another ship?
-Liang
Ed:
Originally by: Twisted Xistance
Originally by: Arthur Frayn Edited by: Arthur Frayn on 25/01/2011 02:09:14 When you look at raw performance, not all T3 ships beat their command ship counterparts. If you'll notice, Sleipnir > Loki.
with the subs all fived?
Yes. -- Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire On Twitter - Blog got deleted when Evepress died - |
Adrasta
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Posted - 2011.01.25 02:19:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Discrodia You are full of rubbish, my good sir.
Addressing your points in order:
1. If you have the command ship bit, you loose out on your main tanking ability, and in that case you can't tank anywhere near as well as any command ship, not to mention numerous HACs.
2. I'm pretty sure that no one is going to spend 400mil on a ship thats as good or slightly better than a BC while costing 8-10x as much, thusly, there is no way the T3 is replacing the battlecruiser.
3. Command ships are again cheaper than T3s, and they have a better bonus, as well as potentially having more EHP, so they last longer under fire, and as they are worth less so they're less likely to be primaried, and that saves you money in the long run.
4. No one likes grinding. This is a fact of life. Ergo, no one wants to grind up the money for a T3 when they have the ability to buy an as-effective HAC or Command Ship for half to a quarter of the price.
5. If you like loosing your SP and thereby ******ing your other skill development, that's your problem not mine.
And for the last one, I'd proly spend them all the same way.
Just like you are my good sir :)
1. You don't need to tank. You make it unscannable and hang it on a safe spot. OH SHI...
2. T3 thankfully is also the safest transport in game atm since you can't actually catch a bubble-safe +cov cloak ship etc etc it has other uses than just dying (or as the case may be not)
3. Back to 1st point. Alt on a safe, can't be scanned down. Why does it need a tank again?
4. All you seem to talk about is ISK this is the 3rd time you bring up the cost as a benefit. Its only 1 benefit and at that not a very big one since the ship won't usually die :) Also really nowadays what is couple of hundred mill between friends?
5. Then why are even posting?
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Mara Rinn
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Posted - 2011.01.25 02:31:00 -
[18]
And then CCP nerfs off-grid boosting, and what happens to your 3-link Tengu?
-- [Aussie players: join ANZAC channel] |
Sader Rykane
Amarr Midnight Sentinels Midnight Space Syndicate
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Posted - 2011.01.25 03:01:00 -
[19]
In Eve Online you're only allowed to train for ONE SHIP.
Because if you try to train more than one... ALL YOUR SP DISAPPEARS.
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Liang Nuren
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Posted - 2011.01.25 03:20:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Adrasta
1. You don't need to tank. You make it unscannable and hang it on a safe spot. OH SHI... 2. T3 thankfully is also the safest transport in game atm since you can't actually catch a bubble-safe +cov cloak ship etc etc it has other uses than just dying (or as the case may be not) 3. Back to 1st point. Alt on a safe, can't be scanned down. Why does it need a tank again? 4. All you seem to talk about is ISK this is the 3rd time you bring up the cost as a benefit. Its only 1 benefit and at that not a very big one since the ship won't usually die :) Also really nowadays what is couple of hundred mill between friends? 5. Then why are even posting?
Nobody is denying that T3s don't eat up a big portion of what you'd traditionally use a Command Ship for. That doesn't mean that there aren't still good reasons to use command ships over T3s.
-Liang -- Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire On Twitter - Blog got deleted when Evepress died - |
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Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
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Posted - 2011.01.25 03:56:00 -
[21]
anyone found the (hidden) agenda the OP is posting under yet?
what is it? - nerf T3? - boost CS/HAC? - SP transaction? - reset EVE SP wise? - make T3 cheaper? - ..
Get rid of Rooms with Doors - Shortrange Jumpdrives for everybody! |
Goose99
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Posted - 2011.01.25 04:00:00 -
[22]
Command ships do well at incursion sites. T3 don't.
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Adrasta
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Posted - 2011.01.25 04:05:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Mara Rinn And then CCP nerfs off-grid boosting, and what happens to your 3-link Tengu?
Just the same thing that happened to my gallente line up. All of it.
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Liang Nuren
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Posted - 2011.01.25 04:06:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Tres Farmer anyone found the (hidden) agenda the OP is posting under yet?
what is it? - nerf T3? - boost CS/HAC?
- SP transaction?
- reset EVE SP wise?
- make T3 cheaper? - ..
Pretty sure it's those two combined. And it's pretty hard to say he doesn't have a point - T3s are better for gang bonuses than command ships. :)
-Liang -- Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire On Twitter - Blog got deleted when Evepress died - |
Doctor Ungabungas
Caldari GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.01.25 04:26:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Pretty sure it's those two combined. And it's pretty hard to say he doesn't have a point - T3s are better for gang bonuses than command ships. :)
[Citation needed].
While you're there, throw together a T3 ship that can fit 3 warfare links and bridge into combat with the rest of the fleet. Bonus points if it can get out of the dictor bubbles with out being torn to pieces.
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Corozan Aspinall
Party Time Inc.
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Posted - 2011.01.25 04:31:00 -
[26]
Never understand the SP obsession. Most characters are 'finished' by 20m ffs.
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Chesty McJubblies
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2011.01.25 04:36:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Twisted Xistance Q: but command ships are a lot cheaper than tech 3 cruisers so there!
That's some question.
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Guillame Herschel
Gallente NME1
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Posted - 2011.01.25 04:43:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Twisted Xistance and still... nobody has pointed out any actual flaws in what I wrote, instead they just troll the topic with idiotic rubbish...
Your post was idiotic rubbish, there was nothing substantial to respond to. You think T3 is the end-game of EVE. OK, fine. Sucks to be you, I guess, if you intend to continue logging into EVE.
Perhaps some other game would be more to your liking. This one has command ships and heavy assaults and stuff. They are not going away. They are not useless. Your post is factually incorrect, and you are a troll.
Happy now?
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Liang Nuren
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Posted - 2011.01.25 04:44:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Doctor Ungabungas
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Pretty sure it's those two combined. And it's pretty hard to say he doesn't have a point - T3s are better for gang bonuses than command ships. :)
[Citation needed].
While you're there, throw together a T3 ship that can fit 3 warfare links and bridge into combat with the rest of the fleet. Bonus points if it can get out of the dictor bubbles with out being torn to pieces.
Yes because the only kind of PVP is via titan bridges.
-Liang -- Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire On Twitter
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Doctor Ungabungas
Caldari GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.01.25 06:33:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Yes because the only kind of PVP is via titan bridges.
WHOOSH.
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