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Archbeholder
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Posted - 2011.01.26 16:32:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Salliene
But there's really not much work involved, is there?
Skill training complete! Skill training complete! Skill training complete! Skill training complete! Skill training complete! Skill training complete! Skill training complete! Skill training complete! Skill training complete! Skill training complete! Skill training complete! Skill training complete!
Yay! I'm good enough now!
Dude you just smashed hopes of all the nerds that they accomplished something, how very cruel of you!
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HeIIfire11
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Posted - 2011.01.26 16:33:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Salliene
But there's really not much work involved, is there?
Skill training complete! Skill training complete! Skill training complete! Skill training complete! Skill training complete! Skill training complete! Skill training complete! Skill training complete! Skill training complete! Skill training complete! Skill training complete! Skill training complete!
Three months later...
Yay! I'm good enough now!
Fixed
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The Archetect
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Posted - 2011.01.26 16:34:00 -
[33]
Considering Incursion is focused on Capital expansion.... Why would they make it for beginners?..
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D'Leh Mannuck
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Posted - 2011.01.26 16:45:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Archbeholder
Originally by: D'Leh Mannuck Thing is that when incursions for newer players get's introduced what would keep high skilled people from running them?
The same thing that keeps high skilled people from running level 1 missions.
Rofl, asif high skilled people all go look for the hardest possible gameplay.
It's not about skill, it's about the fact there are people who will always look for the easiest way out.
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Megan Maynard
Minmatar Out of Order
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Posted - 2011.01.26 16:47:00 -
[35]
I really doubt that you cannot run these incursions with a fleet. There is ALWAYS a place for new pilots in a fleet.
Originally by: F'nog
Originally by: Stareatthesun No no no ... Polaris is where CCP keeps the death star that will destroy eve when the servers shut down.
Thankfully I've got Interceptors trained to V. S |
Doddy
Burning Vendetta
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Posted - 2011.01.26 16:54:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Lyndsey Love
Originally by: Asurymen
Originally by: Lyndsey Love
Originally by: Asurymen High risk = high reward. To get there, you have to work for it. Universal rule of Eve. Don't nerf Incursions, the tears are delicious
Lol. I haven't said any nerf. I said there should be a stage for the players who have less skillpoints and not ready for T2 reppers and BS flying. It can be about 1-3 million ISK reward. Read carefully next time.
Why should CCP make an easier section because you can't be bothered working towards a T2 tank? Like I said, you want to run Incursions, work towards it, like you do with everything else.
I try to explain:
Imagine a player who is 2-5 month old, runs level 3 missions with battlecruiser. (For example me). Maybe he has T2 guns or tank, maybe he is just at the start of doing level 3's. The first stage incursion site is too easy for that player, but for the 2nd (Vanguard), he needs to train months. Imagine that player has not so much friends, he can't be useful in lots of corps (where ratting BS and things like that needed). So if there would be an incursion stage for that kind of players, they can train feet-fights, make friends, and learn group play, and they will be more trained when they reach the requirements to join a 0.0 corp or something. Sory for my english, I hope u got what I'd like to say.
I was running in a gang doing vanguards with a 2 month old alt no problem. A bc is perfectly adequate so long as you fit it properly and know how to broadcast. Hull upgrades 4 and remote repair systems 4 isn't exactly the most arduous skill learning plan Of course people who have trained stupid skills early instead of support skills to 4 like they are supposed to are prob screwed.
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Glyken Touchon
Independent Alchemists
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Posted - 2011.01.26 17:01:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Megan Maynard I really doubt that you cannot run these incursions with a fleet. There is ALWAYS a place for new pilots in a fleet.
Unless the extra pilot takes the fleet over the reward threshold, where the fleet is going to come out of the site with less.
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Ana Vyr
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Posted - 2011.01.26 17:12:00 -
[38]
Incursions are raid content, essentially, to put it into WoW terms. You need the skill and gear to participate.
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Linna Excel
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Posted - 2011.01.26 17:29:00 -
[39]
Originally by: The Archetect Considering Incursion is focused on Capital expansion.... Why would they make it for beginners?..
If it's for caps, why put it in the gallente starter constellation? Keep it to nullsec if its for advanced alliances and caps.
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Barakkus
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Posted - 2011.01.26 17:37:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Mashie Saldana Edited by: Mashie Saldana on 26/01/2011 15:24:42 We have level 4 missions for beginners to try out their ships with.
After that they should do Red vs Blue or Faction Warfare for a month, and then only then they should be ready to be an integrated part in a lean mean incursion smashing machine.
Originally by: HeIIfire11 I agree its stupid..but wasn't this going to bring a bunch of new players to eve?Don't see what it offers them.
A looting / salvaging opportunity?
I believe there is no loot or salvage from Sansha incursion wrecks...on the otherhand, if one could find a way to wipe entire fleets, there's plenty of player wrecks to be had - - [SERVICE] Corp Standings For POS anchoring
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El Mauru
Amarr Interwebs Cooter Explosion Important Internet Spaceship League
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Posted - 2011.01.26 17:39:00 -
[41]
There is a sansha incursion plex for solo-players... just fly to a random gate - pop rats- win
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Pearre Dash
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Posted - 2011.01.26 17:41:00 -
[42]
Because the meta 2 capital mods could, like officer and deadspace mods from 0.0, be sold in Jita for a lot of money. If incursions were 0.0 only it would not only make absolutely no sense (Sansha is already established in 0.0, he's attacking the empires), but then we would have X amount of threads whining about how unfair it is that only nullsec players are allowed this chance.
Incursions are raids. The only game I can think of that has raids for low level players is Dungeons & Dragons Online, and that's because what's low and mid level in DDO now was the level cap when the first raids were introduced. The scouting part IS the extent that newish players without a focused skillset can participate, because how could you possibly balance Sansha sniper battleships and elite frigates around someone rolling around in a Prophecy with a 50mm armor plate and small artilleries?
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Suitonia
Gallente Genos Occidere Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.01.26 17:44:00 -
[43]
Actually, BCs can run the vanguard sites decently. You need to have logistics though. Alternatively, there are plenty of roles you can fill with cheap/low SP.
Vanguard - Overide Logistic Array. The fleet needs a hacker to be able to overide the logistic array that is repping the sansha fleet, in the one I ran, some 4 week old noob in a merlin was our hacker, and he did fine. The hacking skill can be trained from scratch in about a days time.
Vanguard - Nation Mining Colony. The fleet needs a fairly quick mining ship to mine the Lyavite rock (which is 60km from the warp in, and then to move the rock to the nation refinery when all the ships are dead. You can easily do this in a mining Vexor or whatever.)
Alternatively, there is lots of ways you can be useful to a fleet without having high skills.
Armor Tanked BC with Ewar - Myrmidon/Hurricane/Harbinger can all do this, they're cheap, easy to tank, and you can just load 3 target painters or something in the mids, and you're useful, especially in the Vanguard nation outpost where there are several high dps bomber frigates which the high dps in your gang will probably have problems tracking, also with 3 ewar modules, the sanshas will often target you, taking the heat off of your logistics.
ECM can also be useful, TDs too.
Alternatively, the same idea, but fitting remote tracking links (for your turret DPS) and remote eccm (for logistics) can also be useful.
Tanked frigate with webs - Merlin with Medium shield extender, mwd, 2x webs, cheap shield resist rigs. Costs less than 2-3 million isk. Probably not going to be taken seriously in a gang, but hey, you help people apply their DPS, and stop the fast sniping cruisers from escaping out of range. You can also help haul stuff to places quickly, like taking the ore from the mining site, from a miners can into the sansha refinery.
---
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Mina Hiragi
Caldari 24th Imperial Crusade
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Posted - 2011.01.26 17:53:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Uozi We recently parted ways with the month or so of practicing how to practice efficiently (learning skills). Now a new roadblock has been setup.
I can't fly a titan; this is a major roadblock. CCP to make n00btitans that I can fly around at low SP! K thx.
Not that I don't agree that less pants-wettingly-frightening-for-new-players Incursion sites would be cool, but going on about roadblocks is hilarious. No, 1-3M SP players, you're not going to be able to do everything the game has to offer in your first two weeks. Deal.
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Pookie McPook
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Posted - 2011.01.26 17:54:00 -
[45]
Originally by: HeIIfire11 I agree its stupid..but wasn't this going to bring a bunch of new players to eve?Don't see what it offers them.
I think that the new avatars have brought quite enough shallow/callow newbs. Those that are prepared to put in the time will put up, shut up and grind up to the required level. Hopefully CCP will eschew the industry wide lemming-rush to dumb down a successful game just to please new players, the majority of which won't hang around whatever the content anyway. -----
Marmite. Rocket fuel of champions. |
heheheh
Phoenix Club
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Posted - 2011.01.26 17:56:00 -
[46]
Im really liking Incursion atm, but i definatley aggree with OP in that there could be something for the newer players as well.
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Selinate
Amarr Red Water Syndicate
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Posted - 2011.01.26 17:59:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Asurymen High risk = high reward. To get there, you have to wait for it. Universal rule of Eve. Don't nerf Incursions, the tears are delicious
Fixed that for you.
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Megan Maynard
Minmatar Out of Order
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Posted - 2011.01.26 18:05:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Glyken Touchon
Originally by: Megan Maynard I really doubt that you cannot run these incursions with a fleet. There is ALWAYS a place for new pilots in a fleet.
Unless the extra pilot takes the fleet over the reward threshold, where the fleet is going to come out of the site with less.
So you go into the thing with just a bunch of RR BS's. That leaves you pretty damn vunerable to alot of tactics...
Some of these carebear gangs should maybe start looking at this like pvp instead of ratting. A vigil or rifter with a web or target painter can help out any heavy gang. A heavy tanked amarr destroyer will rip apart sansha frigates. And we have a guy in our corp rocking a tanked out maller that has small autocannons but has more HP then any BC the old guys can field.
There is ALWAYS a role for new players, you just need to look around at the ship line ups and get creative.
Originally by: F'nog
Originally by: Stareatthesun No no no ... Polaris is where CCP keeps the death star that will destroy eve when the servers shut down.
Thankfully I've got Interceptors trained to V. S |
Aessoroz
Nohbdy.
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Posted - 2011.01.26 18:07:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Megan Maynard A heavy tanked amarr destroyer will rip apart sansha frigates. And we have a guy in our corp rocking a tanked out maller that has small autocannons but has more HP then any BC the old guys can field.
The coercer has 4 lows....doesn't really qualify as "heavy"
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Megan Maynard
Minmatar Out of Order
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Posted - 2011.01.26 18:41:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Aessoroz
Originally by: Megan Maynard A heavy tanked amarr destroyer will rip apart sansha frigates. And we have a guy in our corp rocking a tanked out maller that has small autocannons but has more HP then any BC the old guys can field.
The coercer has 4 lows....doesn't really qualify as "heavy"
400 mm plate, damage control II, two EANM t2 and three trimarks has 13000 EHP, with fleet bonuses that's 15k easy. None of this is hard to get or train for.
If you cannot keep that alive with some remote reps and find a use for it then you are failing rather hard.
Originally by: F'nog
Originally by: Stareatthesun No no no ... Polaris is where CCP keeps the death star that will destroy eve when the servers shut down.
Thankfully I've got Interceptors trained to V. S |
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Ivana Drake
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.01.26 18:44:00 -
[51]
It's nice that they're finally bringing in PvE content where you actually have to use your brain.
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Kepakh
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Posted - 2011.01.26 18:47:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Megan Maynard
So you go into the thing with just a bunch of RR BS's. That leaves you pretty damn vunerable to alot of tactics...
...like?
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Megan Maynard
Minmatar Out of Order
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Posted - 2011.01.26 18:52:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Kepakh
Originally by: Megan Maynard
So you go into the thing with just a bunch of RR BS's. That leaves you pretty damn vunerable to alot of tactics...
...like?
Not all of these incursions are in high sec. And 3100 dead ships in 10 hours says that maybe the remote repping isn't working as well as you think it is...
Originally by: F'nog
Originally by: Stareatthesun No no no ... Polaris is where CCP keeps the death star that will destroy eve when the servers shut down.
Thankfully I've got Interceptors trained to V. S |
Kepakh
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Posted - 2011.01.26 18:55:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Megan Maynard
Not all of these incursions are in high sec. And 3100 dead ships in 10 hours says that maybe the remote repping isn't working as well as you think it is...
Not answering the question is also an answer, thanks for proving my point.
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Cunane
Gallente Federal Defence Union
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Posted - 2011.01.26 18:56:00 -
[55]
Ok, I hear this low SP stuff, and tbh there are plenty of places for the low-skilled
Three examples
Those stealth bombers that currently **** BS's, best counter? a couple of frigs in the group, bam early on in the fight and you have reduced a ton of incoming DPS in your crappy frigate. Just remember to use a afterburner to keep your sig as low as possible, the BS's won't hit you and the cruisers if your careful are easy to avoid, not only that they tend to ignore you.
Or if you have cruiser 4? just train up Remote Rep 3, or Sensor linking/Energy transfer and blam mini logistics, not as good as a dedicated logi cruiser, but still its a useful role, or even some TP's assuming you have a heavy missile using group, those mids are going to be full of resist and buffer, a Bellicose will be a welcome and large DPS boost.
Finally, if your running level 3s I assume you can fit a decent battlecruiser, in an RR group just fit for resist and buffer and go to town as a DPS.
There is always the sit to the side and cry opition if any of those sound like too much work for you.
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Mister Cletus
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Posted - 2011.01.26 18:59:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Salliene
Originally by: Tsetra
NO you should not be handed everything on a plate. YES you should have to WORK towards some things.
But there's really not much work involved, is there?
Skill training complete! Skill training complete! Skill training complete! Skill training complete! Skill training complete! Skill training complete! Skill training complete! Skill training complete! Skill training complete! Skill training complete! Skill training complete! Skill training complete!
Yay! I'm good enough now!
LOL, I don't think that is the kind of work that is being referred to here. Although you have a point to an extent, your forgetting that simply training a skill does not teach you how to use those skills as a player.
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Lyndsey Love
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Posted - 2011.01.27 07:55:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Chaos Incarnate
Originally by: Lyndsey Love
Originally by: Asurymen High risk = high reward. To get there, you have to work for it. Universal rule of Eve. Don't nerf Incursions, the tears are delicious
Lol. I haven't said any nerf. I said there should be a stage for the players who have less skillpoints and not ready for T2 reppers and BS flying. It can be about 1-3 million ISK reward. Read carefully next time.
You can manage vanguards in BCs with modest t1 named/t2/faction fits, assuming you have with competent players with you
i don't think it's needed
let me refer to this topic:
So you want to do incursions but keep dying here are some helpful hint http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1456595&page=1#1
or this:
Stop being terrible! A guide to incursions http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1456683&page=1#1
Originally by: Comy 1 To use the fleet we used for Vanguard sites as an example that you might want to follow, think in the lines of:
3 Guardians 4 Abaddons 1 Dual web Loki 1 Random BC (in our case hurricane) 1 Random HAC (in our case zealot)
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Takseen
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Posted - 2011.01.27 08:52:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Lyndsey Love
Stop being terrible! A guide to incursions http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1456683&page=1#1
Originally by: Comy 1 To use the fleet we used for Vanguard sites as an example that you might want to follow, think in the lines of:
3 Guardians 4 Abaddons 1 Dual web Loki 1 Random BC (in our case hurricane) 1 Random HAC (in our case zealot)
Yeah that bit caused some raised eyebrows. "Oh Incursions are easy, just bring the maximum possible number of ships to the easiest group site. Oh and half of the ships have to be tech 2/tech 3". That's 1.5 billion just on the ship hulls right there.
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Jennifer Starling
Amarr
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Posted - 2011.01.27 09:04:00 -
[59]
Edited by: Jennifer Starling on 27/01/2011 09:04:49
Well reasonable that i am I have to agree with the OP. The thing that differentiates Incursions from all the other content is that it has a player number limitation.
A starting player can help in L4s without causing you to get no LP or rewards, same for wormholes or PvP or mining or whatever. With incursions, you could spoil it for the rest of the fleet so you better don't come at all as a new player. This is a radical change to EVE's game mechanics, it's almost like "this dungeon is meant for 8 players which must be above level 60". It's very un-EVEish, not very sandboxy.
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Noun Verber
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.01.27 09:08:00 -
[60]
Yes, make low skill incursions, because high skill players certainly won't do them earlier and more efficiently.
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