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Amett
The Forsworn Protectorate
13
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Posted - 2012.08.19 18:40:00 -
[1] - Quote
Ive seen nearly all amarr FW corps leave for caldari (no doubt after they realised the payout they`d get after getting t4 via nulli) and the rest have just turned pirate and killing friendlies. This doesnt help anyone, not amarr and certainly not the minnies, we might as well just have a 2 faction game :( ive said before that fw was the best place for true pvp, lets kepp that going and even out the playing field for everyones sake. |
Salicaz
Wolfsbrigade Lost Obsession
96
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Posted - 2012.08.19 18:46:00 -
[2] - Quote
Amett wrote:Ive seen nearly all amarr FW corps leave for caldari (no doubt after they realised the payout they`d get after getting t4 via nulli) and the rest have just turned pirate and killing friendlies. This doesnt help anyone, not amarr and certainly not the minnies, we might as well just have a 2 faction game :( ive said before that fw was the best place for true pvp, lets kepp that going and even out the playing field for everyones sake.
If your still in FW for pvp it's admarible....but you're doing it wrong. Start farming.
FW used to be pvp, then it took an Inferno to the knee.
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hyuki Mitz
24th Imperial Crusade Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2012.08.19 18:47:00 -
[3] - Quote
I dont like your chances but u can try, lets face it nulli flipped the minnies so any good alliance could pull it off |
Dan Carter Murray
83
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Posted - 2012.08.19 18:52:00 -
[4] - Quote
Amett wrote:Ive seen nearly all amarr FW corps leave for caldari (no doubt after they realised the payout they`d get after getting t4 via nulli) and the rest have just turned pirate and killing friendlies. This doesnt help anyone, not amarr and certainly not the minnies, we might as well just have a 2 faction game :( ive said before that fw was the best place for true pvp, lets kepp that going and even out the playing field for everyones sake.
as I've said before, if any of the minmatar want to grow balls and swap to Amarr it's just a few clicks away...
...that requires big great balls though
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRV3xA9Zcds |
Amett
The Forsworn Protectorate
13
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Posted - 2012.08.19 18:55:00 -
[5] - Quote
Salicaz wrote:Amett wrote:Ive seen nearly all amarr FW corps leave for caldari (no doubt after they realised the payout they`d get after getting t4 via nulli) and the rest have just turned pirate and killing friendlies. This doesnt help anyone, not amarr and certainly not the minnies, we might as well just have a 2 faction game :( ive said before that fw was the best place for true pvp, lets kepp that going and even out the playing field for everyones sake. If your still in FW for pvp it's admarible....but you're doing it wrong. Start farming. FW used to be pvp, then it took an Inferno to the knee.
No u still get great fights, there is way too much focus on farming, but pvp is still a great pull, it maybe the only place in eve apart from rvb where its possible to get non blob warfare. |
sYnc Vir
Wolfsbrigade Lost Obsession
321
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Posted - 2012.08.19 19:00:00 -
[6] - Quote
Confirming leaving fw stops losec pvp from happening. |
Amett
The Forsworn Protectorate
13
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Posted - 2012.08.19 19:08:00 -
[7] - Quote
sYnc Vir wrote:Confirming leaving fw stops losec pvp from happening.
as i have a pirate alt, this is a said thing :( |
Bad Messenger
Nasranite Watch Caldari State Capturing
195
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Posted - 2012.08.19 23:12:00 -
[8] - Quote
amarr FW has always been dead. |
X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
413
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Posted - 2012.08.19 23:20:00 -
[9] - Quote
Salicaz wrote: FW used to be pvp, then it took an Inferno to the knee.
But there is more pvp now than there ever was before Inferno. Could it be that FW is about massive levels of pvp for those who want to pvp?
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Rengerel en Distel
Amarr Science and Industry
326
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Posted - 2012.08.20 02:47:00 -
[10] - Quote
From my limited exposure (mostly with alts in various militias), it seems most of the "good fights" are just blobs of various sizes. Small gangs try and get the lone plexer or mission runner in his pve fit. Larger gangs try and bait small gangs. Even in 1v1, if you're in a t1 frig, the only people that come at you are in faction frigs or larger ships. It's human nature to want to win, even in the serious business of internet spaceships, and few will actually fight a battle they don't expect to win.
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Silence iKillYouu
KA POW POW Inc Late Night Alliance
195
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Posted - 2012.08.20 05:45:00 -
[11] - Quote
Dan Carter Murray wrote:Amett wrote:Ive seen nearly all amarr FW corps leave for caldari (no doubt after they realised the payout they`d get after getting t4 via nulli) and the rest have just turned pirate and killing friendlies. This doesnt help anyone, not amarr and certainly not the minnies, we might as well just have a 2 faction game :( ive said before that fw was the best place for true pvp, lets kepp that going and even out the playing field for everyones sake. as I've said before, if any of the minmatar want to grow balls and swap to Amarr it's just a few clicks away... ...that requires big great balls though http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRV3xA9Zcds requires standings noob http://fw-frontline.blogspot.com/ |
Schalac
Apocalypse Reign
79
|
Posted - 2012.08.20 06:20:00 -
[12] - Quote
Salicaz wrote:Amett wrote:Ive seen nearly all amarr FW corps leave for caldari (no doubt after they realised the payout they`d get after getting t4 via nulli) and the rest have just turned pirate and killing friendlies. This doesnt help anyone, not amarr and certainly not the minnies, we might as well just have a 2 faction game :( ive said before that fw was the best place for true pvp, lets kepp that going and even out the playing field for everyones sake. If your still in FW for pvp it's admarible....but you're doing it wrong. Start farming. FW used to be pvp, then it took an Inferno to the knee. LOL, sad pilot from sad corp losing his gusto. Just go to the Gal side already. |
Amett
The Forsworn Protectorate
13
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Posted - 2012.08.20 07:39:00 -
[13] - Quote
well with everyone going caldari i think Gal will soon know what Amarr feels like. You let me know. |
Bad Messenger
Nasranite Watch Caldari State Capturing
198
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Posted - 2012.08.20 07:41:00 -
[14] - Quote
Amett wrote:well with everyone going caldari i think Gal will soon know what Amarr feels like. You let me know.
I doubt, Gallente has so much alts on caldari side controlling systems flips that they can always manage to take tier 4. |
Dan Carter Murray
85
|
Posted - 2012.08.20 08:10:00 -
[15] - Quote
Silence iKillYouu wrote:Dan Carter Murray wrote:Amett wrote:Ive seen nearly all amarr FW corps leave for caldari (no doubt after they realised the payout they`d get after getting t4 via nulli) and the rest have just turned pirate and killing friendlies. This doesnt help anyone, not amarr and certainly not the minnies, we might as well just have a 2 faction game :( ive said before that fw was the best place for true pvp, lets kepp that going and even out the playing field for everyones sake. as I've said before, if any of the minmatar want to grow balls and swap to Amarr it's just a few clicks away... ...that requires big great balls though http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRV3xA9Zcds requires standings noob
do i need to spell out exactly how to swap militias even with bad standings? or can you handle figuring that out on your own? here's a banana.
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Pinky Feldman
Gank Bangers Moar Tears
279
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Posted - 2012.08.20 11:07:00 -
[16] - Quote
Bad Messenger wrote:Amett wrote:well with everyone going caldari i think Gal will soon know what Amarr feels like. You let me know. I doubt, Gallente has so much alts on caldari side controlling systems flips that they can always manage to take tier 4. You mean, Minmatar farming alts in Caldari space.
The moar you cry the less you pee |
Xuixien
Rifterlings Ushra'Khan
121
|
Posted - 2012.08.20 11:27:00 -
[17] - Quote
Amett wrote:well with everyone going caldari i think Gal will soon know what Amarr feels like. You let me know.
No, because once Minmatar take the rest of Amarr space, where do you think our farmers will go?
Before Nulli cashed out, Caldari were down to a smattering of systems.
Seriously, Gallente are gonna steamroll the Caldari once the Minmatar cash out. Rabble Rabble!! Don't mind me. I just enjoy crapping all over the forums and laughing at the people who take it too seriously. |
Xuixien
Rifterlings Ushra'Khan
121
|
Posted - 2012.08.20 11:28:00 -
[18] - Quote
Also I wanted to add:
Farmarr's ITT crying about all the Minmatar farmers when 80% of the Minmatar farmers are Farmarr alts. Rabble Rabble!! Don't mind me. I just enjoy crapping all over the forums and laughing at the people who take it too seriously. |
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
258
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Posted - 2012.08.20 14:18:00 -
[19] - Quote
Amett wrote:Ive seen nearly all amarr FW corps leave for caldari (no doubt after they realised the payout they`d get after getting t4 via nulli) and the rest have just turned pirate and killing friendlies. This doesnt help anyone, not amarr and certainly not the minnies, we might as well just have a 2 faction game :( ive said before that fw was the best place for true pvp, lets kepp that going and even out the playing field for everyones sake. FW was the best place for "true" pew, but in that statement, was is the operative word. Started changing quite a while back as alts began playing an ever increasing role both in plexing and as scouts/neutral assists, became "was" when T3 alts matured and good clean blood-bath fights disappeared except in the handful of systems where T3s were omni-present .. now that ISK has entered the picture in a big way there is no going back, the farmer uprising were CCP to tone it down, would break the proverbial camel's back
The ***** thing is that fights were fun and rather plentiful when there was nothing mechanics wise to fight over .. personally think that was due to FW being a retirement home for disillusioned null players who just wanted to die and kill as they saw fit, that is: They/We were in it for the pew.
hyuki Mitz wrote:I dont like your chances but u can try, lets face it nulli flipped the minnies so any good alliance could pull it off Doesn't need to be an alliance, good doesn't factor into it, just need to have more farm hands than the opposition
Xuixien wrote:[quote=Amett]...Seriously, Gallente are gonna steamroll the Caldari once the Minmatar cash out. And then Caldari will "steamroll" Gallente .. and then .. it is not a war any longer, it has become a base slug match with one side taking a swing at a time only with no pain on either side, just loads and loads of ISK (actually eerily like that US "Pro Wrestling" thing )
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Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
2737
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Posted - 2012.08.20 16:21:00 -
[20] - Quote
I think some of the old school Amarr became a bit obsessed with moaning to be quite honest. To many of its groups became very restricted in their tactics and gameplay outlook and simply failed to adapt to the demands of the warzone. Sure everyone can complain and grumble about gunless-farming-alts or whatnot but they don't really matter. Plexing was always a pretty cynical game since the earliest days in FW and many of the people now bemoaning the passing of a golden age made their reputation flying kiting interceptors that risk nothing in plex fights - kill anybody slower/shorter ranged and run away from anything resembling a "fair fight" anyway.
Hint - to Navy Slicer there's no difference between a rifter with guns and a rifter without guns - if it gets into optimal kiting orbit it'll kill the target either way. Frigate warfare is immensely cynical in my experience (and always has been.)
The cause of the Amarrian collapse was a morale collapse brought on by a sense of entitlement (FW sandbox) and too many outfits with too many egos saying that pvp was their only reason and cause for existence and the rest of FW mechanics could go hang.
The real triumph of the Minmatar Militia is not hordes of F(arm)arrian plexing alts or locust like numbers.
Its something really simple.
Friendly inclusive fleets. Very few nonsense arguments and a good general mood/attitude on comms.
Minmatar fleets become a genuinely good and enjoyable way to play the game.
I logged in yesterday for the first time in a month really (long summer hols, olympics blah blah blah). My corp/alliance channel dead as a doornail to find myself sitting in a Fleet Stabber in Huola. So I undock, logged onto minmatar coms. 2 mins later some guy sends me a fleet invite and I'm in an enthusiastic rag-bag Matari fleet setting out to plex Kamela and finally take the system back from the Amarrians.
People are decent human beings - they laugh, they joke, they chat about eve, and they take risks and treat combat like they game it is. The FC defines his fleet purpose as dominating the plexing in Kamela - that means we keep changing ships in Kourm every 15-20 mins but thats cool - its variety too - we all get to fly around in different ship classes and don't get bored doing the same thing. The meta-goal is good too - we can see the contest level going up and the Amarrians will need to do something about it if they want to keep docking rights in their capital system.
Honestly it felt like I'd never gone away. Minmatar militia felt like home.
Backwards and forwards in the warzone old school Amarrians are running for the hills. Bitter vet Amarrians quitting the militia are complaining in local about how CCP broke their game (while running irrelevant station camps or smart-bombing battleships - or flitting around in cloaky t3s for gang links for non-existent fleets).
"Plexes are broken." "Farming is broken." "Eve is broken." "LP is broken." "Nulli killed us!" "Fweddit killed us!" "Wolf Brigade killed us!"
(it seems pretty much everything killed the old school amarrians except minmatar ships.)
The some humorous discussions in the basic Minmatar Militia chat with some dodgy looking alts saying we should leave some Amarrian systems perma vulnerable so they could farm plexes there and being told to get on their bikes and learn to fly stealth bombers in missions like proper freedom fighters!
All seemed very familiar.
Then into this came the new contenders.
Agony Empire with no smack, no complaining, no bitter whinging - just decently fit ships (no more Fweddit t1 dessies for these guys) and a game attempt to slow the Kamela capture followed by the deployment of a fleet concept they've already offered to the eve community as a public discussion involving oneiros and deimos based fast armour hac variants.
Good fun for all involved I think. My Fleet Stabber survived the fight and it was good to see Agony Empire working up close and I'm sure they'll become an excellent part of the warzone in the weeks and months to come.
***
Sometimes I think veterans can be their own worst enemies really. I've read variously that the veteran amarrian corps didn't like plex warfare, don't like the consequences in FW 2.0, prefer station games, titan drops, whatever. But I think the truth of it is they were probably just bored with the atmosphere in the Amarr Militia. There is just so much negativity and whining that you can hear day in day out before you want to play something else (play somewhere else) and the people spending their time venting and gnashing their teeth day after day should probably shoulder their own share of the responsibility for what has become of Amarrian Faction Warfare.
For my part, I say a big thanks to the pilots in the Minmatar Militia who make it a joy to randomly login and join up and spend a day fighting in a wide variety of fleet concepts and deployments against the evil slavers.
The secret win-sauce of the Minmatar Militia is we're nice people to play the game with.
The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedomInferno Wardecs - Shoot Goons for FREE $300,000 dollars :(-á |
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X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
422
|
Posted - 2012.08.20 16:31:00 -
[21] - Quote
Xuixien wrote:Seriously, Gallente are gonna steamroll the Caldari once the Minmatar cash out. I think hordes of Minmatar plexing alts and legions of Caldari plexing alts will cancel each other out. Expect wild swings in sov, coupled with lots of pew. |
Xuixien
Rifterlings Ushra'Khan
121
|
Posted - 2012.08.20 16:41:00 -
[22] - Quote
Pew is always good. Rabble Rabble!! Don't mind me. I just enjoy crapping all over the forums and laughing at the people who take it too seriously. |
Andre Vauban
Quantum Cats Syndicate
29
|
Posted - 2012.08.20 16:45:00 -
[23] - Quote
Xuixien wrote:Amett wrote:well with everyone going caldari i think Gal will soon know what Amarr feels like. You let me know. No, because once Minmatar take the rest of Amarr space, where do you think our farmers will go? Before Nulli cashed out, Caldari were down to a smattering of systems. Seriously, Gallente are gonna steamroll the Caldari once the Minmatar cash out.
Look at the numbers. Gallente are getting steamrolled by Caldari as far as plexing goes. The Caldari currently only plex in their home space as there is no reason for them to farm more difficult minmatar plexes when there are plenty of easy Gallente plexes. The Gallente only plex in their home space as there isn't enough Amarr systems to make it worth while. The Minmatar mostly plex in their home space but there is a non-trivial amount of plexing done by groups like QCATS in Caldari systems.
VictoryPointsLastWeek" key="factionID" columns="factionID,factionName,victoryPoints" factionName="Caldari State" victoryPoints="259517" factionName="Minmatar Republic" victoryPoints="252289" factionName="Gallente Federation" victoryPoints="79750" factionName="Amarr Empire" victoryPoints="33109"
Once the Minmatar start farming Caldari systems, the combined Gallente/Minmatar plexes will outperform the Caldari but it won't be a steamroll. |
glepp
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
86
|
Posted - 2012.08.20 17:12:00 -
[24] - Quote
Thank you for the kind words, Jade. Yesterday was a good fight, even if we lost.
We came to fight, we're planning on staying to fight. We look forward to seeing you in space. |
Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
575
|
Posted - 2012.08.20 18:32:00 -
[25] - Quote
Jade Constantine wrote: I think some of the old school Amarr became a bit obsessed with moaning to be quite honest. To many of its groups became very restricted in their tactics and gameplay outlook and simply failed to adapt to the demands of the warzone. Sure everyone can complain and grumble about gunless-farming-alts or whatnot but they don't really matter. ...
Actually they are all that matter for the plexing game. The actual pvpers and results of their battles, have very little impact on the occupancy war. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
2743
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Posted - 2012.08.20 18:56:00 -
[26] - Quote
Cearain wrote:Jade Constantine wrote: I think some of the old school Amarr became a bit obsessed with moaning to be quite honest. To many of its groups became very restricted in their tactics and gameplay outlook and simply failed to adapt to the demands of the warzone. Sure everyone can complain and grumble about gunless-farming-alts or whatnot but they don't really matter. ...
Actually they are all that matter for the plexing game. The actual pvpers and results of their battles, have very little impact on the occupancy war.
I don't buy it Cearain really. I think all this talk of mobs of plexing alts is completely overblown. The reality is that you guys collectively (The amarr militia) just didn't want to defensive plex or risk basing in the warzone post Inferno.) You had the numbers (in pvpers) you had the equipment, the firepower, the capital support (which could have been used for logistics efforts and lifts between staging systems rather than sitting on silly hotdrops).
You guys had massive numerical advantage at times but you squandered it (again collectively) by having the old school aversion to plex warfare and the idea of a caste division between "those that are here for pvp" and those that are here for the occupancy war.
I think the leading organizations in the Amarr militia are the ones that lost it for you. Blaming hordes of anonymous farming alts (lots of them from the amarr) is just missing the point. If you have your leaders and fc's saying they aren't interested in the occupancy war and your oldest established corps and alliances running for the hills and away from the vulnerable warzone then you end up building a culture of defeat that breeds only losers in the long term.
I have no idea whatsoever how with Fweddit, Nulli, Tears, and your USTZ dominance you guys were incapable of rolling Huola in the last month. That was the crux of the war really - nothing to do with alt farming characters in apocryphally-gunless t1 frigates.
I think the pvpers and their battles have everything to do with Faction War because that's the morale, the mythology, the heroism and the shared experience that bind a militia together and make it a fighting force with desire to fight and win - rather than being a channel full of greedy selfish whingers that refuse to defend their own staging systems without somebody else to hold their hands.
Sorry Cearain - I think you are a decent guy - but you are WAY too fixated on the alt-plexing farming stuff and I think your strategy of staking all on a vulnerability exploit (small "e") for a grand tier 5 cashout against an undefeated Matari militia with its staging systems intact was extremely poor. You made the mistake of going for the cynical money grab rather than trying to win the war and it cost you in the long term.
When you had the advantages of Fweddit Nullli Hun and the rest you guys should have been purging Auga, Dal, Huola and driving minmatar back to Bosboger and hisec. Your infinite vulnerability really misfired in a big way. Winning faction war is not about milking the system and making alts rich - its about breaking the will of enemy pvp corps and alliances and winning the occupancy fights that matter in the home systems.
In the future I think the Amarr Militia can recover, but it needs to forget ALL the things its veterans THINK they know. You need to start from the beginning - forget any concept of alt farming meta nonsense and work on building a good place to play for those that want to take joy in Eve PVP and are prepared to fly together and build a community. It might take years - but you have to get over this alt-plexing obsession or just walk yourself - because at the moment the Amarrian old guard are the worst enemies to Amarrian recovery in this warzone. The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedomInferno Wardecs - Shoot Goons for FREE $300,000 dollars :(-á |
Bad Messenger
Nasranite Watch Caldari State Capturing
200
|
Posted - 2012.08.20 19:18:00 -
[27] - Quote
Pinky Feldman wrote:Bad Messenger wrote:Amett wrote:well with everyone going caldari i think Gal will soon know what Amarr feels like. You let me know. I doubt, Gallente has so much alts on caldari side controlling systems flips that they can always manage to take tier 4. You mean, Minmatar farming alts in Caldari space.
nope, i mean gallente alt alliances in caldari militia shooting ihubs. |
Synthetic Cultist
Church of The Crimson Saviour
45
|
Posted - 2012.08.20 19:24:00 -
[28] - Quote
Jade Constantine wrote: alt farming characters in apocryphally-gunless t1 frigates.
gunless plexing frigates do seem to exist :\
was looking at a fairly backwater system (Avenod) on Eve-kill. http://eve-kill.net/?a=system_detail&sys_id=2090
A whole lot of ships killed there have been gunless plexer frigates, on both sides, some from corporations that i wouldn't have thought would do that sort of thing :s
some of them aren't alts, since they have kills in other ships too.
Not sure that they matter in the wider scheme of things, but for such a big percentage of all the pvp activity in that system to be gunless plexer frigates with 0 offensive ability seems somewhat less than ideal. :\ |
Christine Peeveepeeski
The Imperial Fedaykin
97
|
Posted - 2012.08.20 19:27:00 -
[29] - Quote
Jade Constantine wrote:Cearain wrote:Jade Constantine wrote: I think some of the old school Amarr became a bit obsessed with moaning to be quite honest. To many of its groups became very restricted in their tactics and gameplay outlook and simply failed to adapt to the demands of the warzone. Sure everyone can complain and grumble about gunless-farming-alts or whatnot but they don't really matter. ...
Actually they are all that matter for the plexing game. The actual pvpers and results of their battles, have very little impact on the occupancy war. I don't buy it Cearain really. I think all this talk of mobs of plexing alts is completely overblown. The reality is that you guys collectively (The amarr militia) just didn't want to defensive plex or risk basing in the warzone post Inferno.) You had the numbers (in pvpers) you had the equipment, the firepower, the capital support (which could have been used for logistics efforts and lifts between staging systems rather than sitting on silly hotdrops). You guys had massive numerical advantage at times but you squandered it (again collectively) by having the old school aversion to plex warfare and the idea of a caste division between "those that are here for pvp" and those that are here for the occupancy war. I think the leading organizations in the Amarr militia are the ones that lost it for you. Blaming hordes of anonymous farming alts (lots of them from the amarr) is just missing the point. If you have your leaders and fc's saying they aren't interested in the occupancy war and your oldest established corps and alliances running for the hills and away from the vulnerable warzone then you end up building a culture of defeat that breeds only losers in the long term. I have no idea whatsoever how with Fweddit, Nulli, Tears, and your USTZ dominance you guys were incapable of rolling Huola in the last month. That was the crux of the war really - nothing to do with alt farming characters in apocryphally-gunless t1 frigates. I think the pvpers and their battles have everything to do with Faction War because that's the morale, the mythology, the heroism and the shared experience that bind a militia together and make it a fighting force with desire to fight and win - rather than being a channel full of greedy selfish whingers that refuse to defend their own staging systems without somebody else to hold their hands. Sorry Cearain - I think you are a decent guy - but you are WAY too fixated on the alt-plexing farming stuff and I think your strategy of staking all on a vulnerability exploit (small "e") for a grand tier 5 cashout against an undefeated Matari militia with its staging systems intact was extremely poor. You made the mistake of going for the cynical money grab rather than trying to win the war and it cost you in the long term. When you had the advantages of Fweddit Nullli Hun and the rest you guys should have been purging Auga, Dal, Huola and driving minmatar back to Bosboger and hisec. Your infinite vulnerability really misfired in a big way. Winning faction war is not about milking the system and making alts rich - its about breaking the will of enemy pvp corps and alliances and winning the occupancy fights that matter in the home systems. In the future I think the Amarr Militia can recover, but it needs to forget ALL the things its veterans THINK they know. You need to start from the beginning - forget any concept of alt farming meta nonsense and work on building a good place to play for those that want to take joy in Eve PVP and are prepared to fly together and build a community. It might take years - but you have to get over this alt-plexing obsession or just walk yourself - because at the moment the Amarrian old guard are the worst enemies to Amarrian recovery in this warzone.
You are partially correct jade. Amarr are REALLY bad at working together... I mean epically bad at it.
The vets know that of course.
The issue is that the vast majority of vets in amarr can't stand wasting time orbiting buttons. In the major contested systems sure you get fights but out in the hinterlands it's dull 90% of the time and that's where the SOV war is won. PVP means nothing but propoganda rights these days. Plexers win this war and we have very, very few willing to actually get the job done.
Example, I'm not a vet but I am very supportive of those that want to do the plex thing because if this mechanic stays its people like me that are going to keep you minmatar busy while our plexers get the war won.
Right now though I can do that externally to amarr FW MUCH more efficiently than inside the FW. All of us who don't want to orbit realise that now. If I end up leaving amarr FW I'll stick a 2 day old alt in so I can take plexes if neccasary but I'll just go run guerilla actions in your backyards and do so much more effectively outside militia than in. In fact my positive sec alt will have a field day attacking you all forcing your GCC.. it's ********....
AMARR VICTOR! by proxy...... (P.S. as a minmatar trying to earn freedom for my slave family I have to say that slaughtering my own kind does make me sit and think now and then....) |
Almity
Imperial Outlaws
20
|
Posted - 2012.08.20 19:29:00 -
[30] - Quote
Jade Constantine wrote:Cearain wrote:Jade Constantine wrote: I think some of the old school Amarr became a bit obsessed with moaning to be quite honest. To many of its groups became very restricted in their tactics and gameplay outlook and simply failed to adapt to the demands of the warzone. Sure everyone can complain and grumble about gunless-farming-alts or whatnot but they don't really matter. ...
Actually they are all that matter for the plexing game. The actual pvpers and results of their battles, have very little impact on the occupancy war. I don't buy it Cearain really. I think all this talk of mobs of plexing alts is completely overblown. The reality is that you guys collectively (The amarr militia) just didn't want to defensive plex or risk basing in the warzone post Inferno.) You had the numbers (in pvpers) you had the equipment, the firepower, the capital support (which could have been used for logistics efforts and lifts between staging systems rather than sitting on silly hotdrops). You guys had massive numerical advantage at times but you squandered it (again collectively) by having the old school aversion to plex warfare and the idea of a caste division between "those that are here for pvp" and those that are here for the occupancy war. I think the leading organizations in the Amarr militia are the ones that lost it for you. Blaming hordes of anonymous farming alts (lots of them from the amarr) is just missing the point. If you have your leaders and fc's saying they aren't interested in the occupancy war and your oldest established corps and alliances running for the hills and away from the vulnerable warzone then you end up building a culture of defeat that breeds only losers in the long term. I have no idea whatsoever how with Fweddit, Nulli, Tears, and your USTZ dominance you guys were incapable of rolling Huola in the last month. That was the crux of the war really - nothing to do with alt farming characters in apocryphally-gunless t1 frigates. I think the pvpers and their battles have everything to do with Faction War because that's the morale, the mythology, the heroism and the shared experience that bind a militia together and make it a fighting force with desire to fight and win - rather than being a channel full of greedy selfish whingers that refuse to defend their own staging systems without somebody else to hold their hands. Sorry Cearain - I think you are a decent guy - but you are WAY too fixated on the alt-plexing farming stuff and I think your strategy of staking all on a vulnerability exploit (small "e") for a grand tier 5 cashout against an undefeated Matari militia with its staging systems intact was extremely poor. You made the mistake of going for the cynical money grab rather than trying to win the war and it cost you in the long term. When you had the advantages of Fweddit Nullli Hun and the rest you guys should have been purging Auga, Dal, Huola and driving minmatar back to Bosboger and hisec. Your infinite vulnerability really misfired in a big way. Winning faction war is not about milking the system and making alts rich - its about breaking the will of enemy pvp corps and alliances and winning the occupancy fights that matter in the home systems. In the future I think the Amarr Militia can recover, but it needs to forget ALL the things its veterans THINK they know. You need to start from the beginning - forget any concept of alt farming meta nonsense and work on building a good place to play for those that want to take joy in Eve PVP and are prepared to fly together and build a community. It might take years - but you have to get over this alt-plexing obsession or just walk yourself - because at the moment the Amarrian old guard are the worst enemies to Amarrian recovery in this warzone.
You assume the "old guard" cares about system ownership. If my enjoyment comes from leading combat fleets and fighting the enemy I will focus my time and efforts doing so. You are so focused on the PVE side of FW I think you forgot why most of us are here.
Don't try to dictate how I play Eve. You can win the occupancy war all you want. I will keep doing what i have enjoyed doing the last two years. |
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