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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 22 post(s) |
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CCP Fozzie
C C P C C P Alliance
1062
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Posted - 2012.08.20 12:15:00 -
[1] - Quote
Hello again everyone. Hope you all had a good weekend.
This post will cover the last four tech one frigates to get a discussion thread. This is in many ways the trickiest but also the most rewarding part of the winter frigate rebalance, since we are creating a new role for these frigates and hopefully shaking up frigate combat quite a bit.
Each race will be getting a tech one logistics frigate, bonused in remote repairing. These ships will be replacing the mining frigates that are being displaced by the new ORE frigate, taking the Inquisitor from the Amarr lineup instead because we already stole the Tormentor to make a mini-Armageddon.
Our goals here are 1)Create a new set of interesting gameplay choices when flying or fighting against frigate groups 2)Provide an upgrade path for new players on their way to Logistics ships
These ships are weaker for their size than our T2 Logistics Ships are, and that is by design. This reflects both the lower cost and SP investment and our desire that these ships compliment current frigate warfare without eclipsing all the other ships in the lineup. I am aware that any expansion of logistics capability in eve makes things harder for solo players, and we are endeavoring to make sure that these frigates add options to combat instead of taking them away.
So these ships have a max rep range of 28.8km with T2 reps and are generally among the slowest of the tech one frigates. We built them quite heavy so that they perform closer to destroyers/interdictors than the other frigates. Piloting these ships effectively in the midst of a battle will require some thought, helping create ships that are easy to get into but take time to master.
Along with the changes to the ships we are also changing the fitting requirements of small remote armor and shield reps. Details of those changes are (apologies for the formatting): MetatypeNamepowercpu 0Small Remote Armor Repair System I610 1Small I-ax Regenerative Projector69 2Small Coaxial Regenerative Projector69 3Small 'Arup' Remote Bulwark Reconstruction68 4Small 'Solace' Remote Bulwark Reconstruction68 5Small Remote Armor Repair System II712 6Brotherhood' Small Remote Armor Repair System I610 7Beatnik' Small Remote Armor Repair system I58 11Centii C-Type Small Remote Armor Repair System810 11Coreli C-Type Small Remote Armor Repair System610 12Centii B-Type Small Remote Armor Repair System910 12Coreli B-Type Small Remote Armor Repair System610 13Centii A-Type Small Remote Armor Repair System1010 13Coreli A-Type Small Remote Armor Repair System610 0Small Shield Transporter I335 1Small Asymmetric Barrier Transpositioner I333 2Small Murky Shield Screen Transmitter I332 3Small 'Atonement' Ward Projector328 4Small S95A Partial Shield Transporter330 5Small Shield Transporter II442 11Gistii C-Type Small Shield Transporter337 11Pithi C-Type Small Shield Transporter350 12Gistii B-Type Small Shield Transporter337 12Pithi B-Type Small Shield Transporter352 13Gistii A-Type Small Shield Transporter337 13Pithi A-Type Small Shield Transporter354
Here's the stats on the ships themselves. I won't give the difference from before since these guys are in a whole new role so the previous stats don't really matter.:
Inquisitor: Frigate skill bonuses: 10% bonus to Remote Armor Repair amount 10% reduction in Remote Armor Repair cap use Role Bonus: 500% bonus to the range of Remote Armor Repairers Slot layout: 3 H, 2 M, 4 L, 2 turrets Fittings: 51 PWG, 135 CPU Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 225 / 500 / 330 Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap per second): 400 / 200s / 2 Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 310 / 3.6 / 1470000 / 4.95s Drones (bandwidth / bay): 5 / 5 Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 36km / 700 / 7 Sensor strength: 10 Radar Signature radius: 34 Cargo capacity: 250
Bantam: Frigate skill bonuses: 10% bonus to Shield Transporter boost amount 10% reduction in Shield Transporter cap use Role Bonus: 500% bonus to the range of Shield Transporters Slot layout: 3 H, 4 M, 2 L, 2 turrets Fittings: 39 PWG, 215 CPU Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 500 / 225 / 310 Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap per second): 380 / 190s / 2 Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 300 / 3.75 / 1480000 / 5.19s Drones (bandwidth / bay): 5 / 5 Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 40km / 650 / 7 Sensor strength: 12 Gravimetric Signature radius: 35 Cargo capacity: 270
Navitas: Frigate skill bonuses: 10% bonus to Remote Armor Repair amount 10% reduction in Remote Armor Repair cap use Role Bonus: 500% bonus to the range of Remote Armor Repairers Slot layout: 3 H, 3 M, 3 L, 2 turrets Fittings: 49 PWG, 145 CPU Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 250 / 400 / 335 Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap per second): 390 / 195s / 2 Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 330 / 3.4 / 1450000 / 4.61s Drones (bandwidth / bay): 5 / 5 Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 38km / 675 / 7 Sensor strength: 11 Magnetometric Signature radius: 36 Cargo capacity: 280
Burst: Frigate skill bonuses: 10% bonus to Shield Transporter boost amount 10% reduction in Shield Transporter cap use Role Bonus: 500% bonus to the range of Shield Transporters Slot layout: 3 H, 3 M, 3 L, 2 turrets Fittings: 40 PWG, 205 CPU Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 400 / 250 / 290 Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap per second): 370 / 185s / 2 Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 335 / 3.55 / 1420000 / 4.72s Drones (bandwidth / bay): 5 / 5 Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 34km / 725 / 7 Sensor strength: 9 Ladar Signature radius: 33 Cargo capacity: 260
Let us know what you think! |
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Dovinian
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
1092
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Posted - 2012.08.20 12:19:00 -
[2] - Quote
:slick: Hooray Logi Frigates |
Diana Valenti
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
34
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Posted - 2012.08.20 12:20:00 -
[3] - Quote
Winter, y u coming so slow. |
Michael Harari
The Hatchery Team Liquid
248
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Posted - 2012.08.20 12:20:00 -
[4] - Quote
Honestly, what role are these going to fill? Other than theme based fleets, Im not really sure where they will fit. Their range is a bit short for "actual" fleets, and they seem incredibly overpowered for people using them to dualbox pve, or to camp a frigate plex. |
Gheyna
Rayn Enterprises Test Alliance Please Ignore
38
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Posted - 2012.08.20 12:21:00 -
[5] - Quote
looks cool, (i want covert ops logi frigs) |
Tomytronic
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
214
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Posted - 2012.08.20 12:21:00 -
[6] - Quote
This is fantastic.
No really, it is. |
Akirei Scytale
Test Alliance Please Ignore
2308
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Posted - 2012.08.20 12:22:00 -
[7] - Quote
Oh my.
Frig roams just went from suicide fun gangs to scary effective and hard to deal with harassment. Also, now our newbros have options in fleets! TEST Alliance BEST Alliance |
Celestarias
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
0
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Posted - 2012.08.20 12:23:00 -
[8] - Quote
This is amazing.
Now I can scream about people spamming shield broadcasts in my frigate fleets now too! :sun: |
School Nickname Worldmonkey
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
36
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Posted - 2012.08.20 12:23:00 -
[9] - Quote
Jaguar supremacy for life. Deal with it. |
Michael Harari
The Hatchery Team Liquid
248
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Posted - 2012.08.20 12:26:00 -
[10] - Quote
I appreciate that they are slow and fragile but
1) With the cost of small reps, I dont think its reasonable to expect a t2 fit - deadspace reps will be the norm.
2) Logi dont get +50% rep power, these do.
3) For PvE, the tank and speed on these is meaningless
4) For camping a plex, you can have this orbit 30km away while your main sits on the warpin
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Arrgthepirate
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
48
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Posted - 2012.08.20 12:26:00 -
[11] - Quote
I've never been so happy. |
Harvey James
Prospero's Sight
8
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Posted - 2012.08.20 12:26:00 -
[12] - Quote
more drones for self defense would be nice |
CyberRaver
Black Omega Security Goonswarm Federation
8
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Posted - 2012.08.20 12:27:00 -
[13] - Quote
Yes yes a thousand times yes Frigate roams became 1000x deadlier now |
Arrgthepirate
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
48
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Posted - 2012.08.20 12:30:00 -
[14] - Quote
Harvey James wrote:more drones for self defense would be nice
They aren't for self defense, they are for assigning out and whoring killmails. |
MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
522
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Posted - 2012.08.20 12:30:00 -
[15] - Quote
Awesome! now please make a tech II version!
these ships are just too awesome for us vets not to have one and a tech II version is just pure sweet!
make the gal have a bonus to remote ECCM
make the caldari have a bonus to remote sensor boosters
make the ammar have a bonus ( well i dunno what counters target painting remotely?) you would need some new mod thats a remote senor shadow (reduces sig raduis of target ship)
then tracking link for minnie to counter tracking disrupters... Ok, so you've corrected my spelling,do you care to make a valid point? -áThere are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... |
Akrasjel Lanate
Black Thorne Corporation Black Thorne Alliance
759
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Posted - 2012.08.20 12:30:00 -
[16] - Quote
Cool |
Michael Harari
The Hatchery Team Liquid
248
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Posted - 2012.08.20 12:32:00 -
[17] - Quote
Also these ships are not slow - they have the same base speed as hulls such as the rifter. |
Tomytronic
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
214
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Posted - 2012.08.20 12:32:00 -
[18] - Quote
So does this mean you're gonna make armor reps start at the beginning of the cycle? Because 5 seconds is a long time to wait for a rep to land in a frigate. |
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CCP Fozzie
C C P C C P Alliance
1064
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Posted - 2012.08.20 12:33:00 -
[19] - Quote
Ok answers to excellent questions coming up:
Michael Harari wrote:I appreciate that they are slow and fragile but 1) With the cost of small reps, I dont think its reasonable to expect a t2 fit - deadspace reps will be the norm. Yup, and we balanced them with the idea that T2 will be baseline and C and B type reps relatively common. I've been keeping a close eye on the number of small faction reps in existance, and they're within a range I'm happy with.
Michael Harari wrote: 2) Logi dont get +50% rep power, these do.
Instead, logi get to use reps from a size larger. The rep power of these ships relative to their size class is significantly less than logistics ships.
Michael Harari wrote: 3) For PvE, the tank and speed on these is meaningless
Not going to go into detail since it's not my team, but there are plans to deal with that.
Michael Harari wrote: 4) For camping a plex, you can have this orbit 30km away while your main sits on the warpin
Indeed, but minor plex camps are already so powerful that I think the solution lies with giving people other plexes to hit so that we keep gangs moving. |
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Michael Harari
The Hatchery Team Liquid
248
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Posted - 2012.08.20 12:34:00 -
[20] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Michael Harari wrote: 4) For camping a plex, you can have this orbit 30km away while your main sits on the warpin
Indeed, but minor plex camps are already so powerful that I think the solution lies with giving people other plexes to hit so that we keep gangs moving.
Im talking more about the 2/10 static plexes, rather than FW plexes. |
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Jame Jarl Retief
Murientor Tribe Defiant Legacy
264
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Posted - 2012.08.20 12:37:00 -
[21] - Quote
My immediate gut reaction was "Well Done!", this certainly has the potential to shake up frigate combat and introduce some very fun mechanics into smaller hull combat. Needs testing though.
One concern I have is that this is going to further encourage multiboxing. Where currently everyone and their grandma has an off-grid booster and call it "solo", now they're going to have one more account for this "pocket healer". I mean it's great for CCP income-wise, but this will wreck a new player experience. Remember, no sane new player is going to pay for 2-3 subs (edit: especially now that F2P+store is becoming the norm, see SWTOR, GW2, etc.), and he won't be able to PLEX his account for a while, probably a month or two at best. When most people a new player fights, even at frigate level, are off-grid boosted AND logi-repaired, even ignoring the obscene advantage that the SP they have gives them...well...it just ain't gonna be fun.
Yes, I know, "join corp", "make friends", etc. All valid, but it still makes me ponder if this is pushing the game a little too much in the direction of "mandatory altagolism". |
Two step
Aperture Harmonics K162
2146
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Posted - 2012.08.20 12:40:00 -
[22] - Quote
I think these should be really cool, and a great chance for new folks to learn to love the logi... CSM 7 Secretary CSM 6 Alternate Delegate @two_step_eve on Twitter My Blog
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Michael Harari
The Hatchery Team Liquid
248
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Posted - 2012.08.20 12:40:00 -
[23] - Quote
A merlin with one of these repping it gets nearly a 300 dps tank. That is nearly unbreakable in a 1v1 situation with another frigate, even a gank fitted enyo.
Edit: "oh, so just go kill the logi frigate" - these frigs are faster than assault frigates, gl with catching them while scrammed and webbed. |
Nagarythe Tinurandir
Catholic School for Boys A Point In Space
41
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Posted - 2012.08.20 12:41:00 -
[24] - Quote
this will be fun for sure :D
navitas/burst/bantam/inquisitor is primary... i guess the old bantam lady never thought to get this much attention in a fight ^^ |
CyberRaver
Black Omega Security Goonswarm Federation
8
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Posted - 2012.08.20 12:44:00 -
[25] - Quote
My only question is: are we getting t2 versions of these? Purely as a stepping stone to real logi and something more skill intensive for small frigate gang enthusiasts |
Celestarias
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
0
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Posted - 2012.08.20 12:44:00 -
[26] - Quote
A T2 version of these frigates to fly along side the AFs, that have the same bonuses as Logistics ships would be something to die for.
Having the T2 resists, and the energy transfer range/cap regen of the next size or two larger (To represent their respective Logi counterparts) would do wonders for small gang PVP, because these ships would be able to keep up with Vagabonds and other fast doctrines that solely depend on their speed to tank. |
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CCP Fozzie
C C P C C P Alliance
1064
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Posted - 2012.08.20 12:48:00 -
[27] - Quote
I'm not going to rule out creating t2 versions of these someday, but the t1 versions are all that's coming for winter and t2 versions would be a somewhat more difficult balancing problem if we ever do them. |
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Zverofaust
Martyr's Vengence Test Alliance Please Ignore
104
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Posted - 2012.08.20 12:52:00 -
[28] - Quote
These sound like they are going to be pure awesome. I too would like to know if we can expect any changes to the way armor reps work, as yeah, waiting til the end of cycle to apply reps is ****** for a frigate. |
Javajunky
Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation
34
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Posted - 2012.08.20 12:53:00 -
[29] - Quote
Looks good on papper but you if I remember correctly, most of the time in Frig Roams most frigs insta-pop even in small pvp engagements. Exercise in futility, 0 for 2 with CCP F.uck it up. First making mining worthless again and now this? Maybe you want to to try your luck at drawing pretty laserz in the graphics department, management might feel like they are getting somethign for tha paycheck. |
Hans Jagerblitzen
Autocannons Anonymous Late Night Alliance
2748
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Posted - 2012.08.20 12:54:00 -
[30] - Quote
I can't wait to see what you guys think! These are my favorite new frigates, hands down. We bugged CCP a lot about considering these, I just couldnt see the use for another "sniper frig" in terms of a role when we already have ranged frigates and sniping will always be bested by dessies anyways. Hope you enjoy! o7 Vice Secretary of the 7th Council of Stellar Management.
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