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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 22 post(s) |
MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
522
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Posted - 2012.08.20 12:30:00 -
[1] - Quote
Awesome! now please make a tech II version!
these ships are just too awesome for us vets not to have one and a tech II version is just pure sweet!
make the gal have a bonus to remote ECCM
make the caldari have a bonus to remote sensor boosters
make the ammar have a bonus ( well i dunno what counters target painting remotely?) you would need some new mod thats a remote senor shadow (reduces sig raduis of target ship)
then tracking link for minnie to counter tracking disrupters... Ok, so you've corrected my spelling,do you care to make a valid point? -áThere are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... |
MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
522
|
Posted - 2012.08.20 14:25:00 -
[2] - Quote
MeBiatch wrote:Awesome! now please make a tech II version!
these ships are just too awesome for us vets not to have one and a tech II version is just pure sweet!
make the gal have a bonus to remote ECCM
make the caldari have a bonus to remote sensor boosters
make the ammar have a bonus ( well i dunno what counters target painting remotely?) you would need some new mod thats a remote senor shadow (reduces sig raduis of target ship)
then tracking link for minnie to counter tracking disrupters...
to expand further on this i would like to see the other tech II bonus be reduction in sig radius...
also the tracking link would be rather useless for the minnie one so how about an increased efficiency of cap batteries... that would make them less vulnerable to nueting...
also this brings up a good point the frig sized ones can only use small RR... which is a good thing..
i would like to see the same thing done for cruisersized logi ships where they can only fit medium sized RR...
then introduce a new bs thats logi role but can fit large ones then a tech II version that works with target breaking mods...
that way you would have a linear line of progression for logi pilots and provide some interesting roles going from frig up to bs sized ships... Ok, so you've corrected my spelling,do you care to make a valid point? -áThere are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... |
MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
522
|
Posted - 2012.08.20 14:31:00 -
[3] - Quote
Michael Harari wrote:Basically having super low sig, low skill requirement, super cheap logi is very bad for the game.
They scale without stacking penalty and work well even with poor skills. The benefit they give is out of proportion to both their in game cost and the player skill required to use them. Fighting them requires disproportionate effort, particularly if they are massed (which they will be).
I support your other changes fozzie, but this is a bad, bad idea.
umm no this is a MMO... if people team up there should be a bonus for that..
a drone boat would make short work of the logi frig...
so too would an alt in an ecm ship...
the fact that this changes the niche game style that you play does not make it bad...
i have played gal since i started and they have been kicked in the nuts more then once... but i still play them... remember this game evolves and if you dont with it you die!
Ok, so you've corrected my spelling,do you care to make a valid point? -áThere are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... |
MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
522
|
Posted - 2012.08.20 14:32:00 -
[4] - Quote
Bouh Revetoile wrote:These frigates seems very far from the resilience of T2 logi we have now, and I'm not sure they will be able to repair effectively while fleeing from swarm of drones : MWD is hard to permarun with cap intensive modules on a frigate. As Fozzie said, they are slow and even AF may catch them. They will have a very hard life on the battlefield.
If solo : kill the logi frig ; it'll be easier and faster than anything before. If they have more than one logi frig, then they would have been at least 3, and you would have been in great trouble anyway.
yeah serious kill the logi then that other ship would not have an internal rep so it goes down fast too...
someone tell me again whats this guys problems or did someone pee in his cheerios this morning... Ok, so you've corrected my spelling,do you care to make a valid point? -áThere are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... |
MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
527
|
Posted - 2012.08.20 18:05:00 -
[5] - Quote
Stumpet Rakingclaw wrote:Fon Revedhort wrote:...Everyone needs more logistics support and giving new players or even bitter vets a cheapish, low skillpoint way to play a role that is sorely needed is a positive overall. This.
bah your test i cant agree...
but
this!
Ok, so you've corrected my spelling,do you care to make a valid point? -áThere are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... |
MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
527
|
Posted - 2012.08.20 18:10:00 -
[6] - Quote
Eli Grange wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:I'm not going to rule out creating t2 versions of these someday, but the t1 versions are all that's coming for winter and t2 versions would be a somewhat more difficult balancing problem if we ever do them. I'm going to make yet another suggestion for this thread T2 logi = larger rep class (+smaller sig, better resists etc) T1 logi frigates = small reps T2 logi frigates = medium reps T1 logi cruiser = medium reps T2 logi cruiser = large reps
tbh i want to see the large reps taken away from tech II logi sihps...
it gives them WAY! too much scaleability for a ship that size...
i would much rather see a new BS added to the game... that used large RR... that would make sense as they have very large sig radius to start with... so with thier ability to rep would come with thier ability to die!
I would even like to see a tech II version logi BS thats used with the target breaker mod... its tech II bonus would reduce the side effects when the mod is active... (this would help counter the blob for smaller gangs) Ok, so you've corrected my spelling,do you care to make a valid point? -áThere are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... |
MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
527
|
Posted - 2012.08.20 18:12:00 -
[7] - Quote
Fon Revedhort wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:Michael Harari wrote:A merlin with one of these repping it gets nearly a 300 dps tank. That is nearly unbreakable in a 1v1 situation with another frigate, even a gank fitted enyo.
Edit: "oh, so just go kill the logi frigate" - these frigs are faster than assault frigates, gl with catching them while scrammed and webbed. But if there's a logi frigate it's no longer a 1v1, it's a 1v2. Add a second ship on the other side and the picture changes a lot (or swap the logi frigate for another Merlin and the picture stays pretty similar). You do realize there's a huge difference between that extra ship being a force multiplier (like logistic ship or recon) and yet another generic combat vessel, right You (CCP) thinking it's impossible to fight 1 vs 10+ doesn't mean it's indeed impossible. What makes it impossible are one-sided game 'features' like current ECM, damping, OP RRing etc. which allow those in superior numbers to render opposing ship(s) completely (!) useless.
indeed at some point there needs to be diminishing returns for attacking and rr...
that way you would have to be smarter about target selection and would make a fight more like a RL battle with its chaoticness... and added epicness... Ok, so you've corrected my spelling,do you care to make a valid point? -áThere are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... |
MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
527
|
Posted - 2012.08.20 18:13:00 -
[8] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:Michael Harari wrote:how does this not make solo pvp exponentially harder? I solo PVP frequently and I'm not afraid of this change. In fact, I'd say you're overlooking the change that is ACTUALLY going to make solo PVP hard. -Liang
you mean the ewar frigs?
Ok, so you've corrected my spelling,do you care to make a valid point? -áThere are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... |
MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
527
|
Posted - 2012.08.20 18:17:00 -
[9] - Quote
Spugg Galdon wrote:I would have preferred an Electronic Support frigate that gave remote ECCM and Remote SeBo's etc
Guess the future is small and fast ships in large swarms
tbh put the remote eccm and remote sebos on a tech II logi frig!
that with tech II resists would make these things key for thier larger brothers! i.e free up some slots for other types of mods...
Ok, so you've corrected my spelling,do you care to make a valid point? -áThere are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... |
MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
527
|
Posted - 2012.08.20 18:19:00 -
[10] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:MeBiatch wrote:tbh i want to see the large reps taken away from tech II logi sihps... it gives them WAY! too much scaleability for a ship that size... i would much rather see a new BS added to the game... that used large RR... that would make sense as they have very large sig radius to start with... so with thier ability to rep would come with thier ability to die! I would even like to see a tech II version logi BS thats used with the target breaker mod... its tech II bonus would reduce the side effects when the mod is active... (this would help counter the blob for smaller gangs) So you'd need 2-3 Logis repping one guy to sustain him under a single medium DPS BC? I guess removing effective logistics from the game is one way to go about it. -Liang
you know i would not mind the meidum remote reps getting an increase in rep amount per lev to help out logi curisers II... but IMO the range of Large reps is whats making them OP...
but having large reps on a bs sized ship would be OK for me because of the many disadvantages of bs sized ships... large sig radius... slow... bad agility... terribad locking time... and so on... Ok, so you've corrected my spelling,do you care to make a valid point? -áThere are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... |
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MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
527
|
Posted - 2012.08.20 18:55:00 -
[11] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:MeBiatch wrote: you know i would not mind the meidum remote reps getting an increase in rep amount per lev to help out logi curisers II... but IMO the range of Large reps is whats making them OP...
but having large reps on a bs sized ship would be OK for me because of the many disadvantages of bs sized ships... large sig radius... slow... bad agility... terribad locking time... and so on...
Your idea would ultimately just remove long range logistics from the game. The fallout would be that kiting in a logistics ship would become impossible and so would long range RR. Furthermore, battleship sized logis would never be used for a tremendous number of reasons. So really, the game would just be worse off for no good reason. -Liang
edit correction for misreading...
as for the medium vrs large... well 20 km is not so bad... 52 km range is more then enough to kite with... and hey they could always add a rig that could increase the range of RR right?
the only thing i would do i get rid of the drone rep bonus and replace with a rr efficiency bonus... lets say 7.5% per lev... that would take that 192 per medium rep and turn it into 264 to which i would be happy with...
so in practice you are loosing 100 rep per cycle and 20 km... which imo would bring them in line with the fact they are CRUISERS!
also back in the day putting rr on a bs was standard before they boosted the hell out of logi ships... so its not unheard of... plus IMO the bs sized ones would have 7ish high slots so there potential rep amount would make them worth using... Ok, so you've corrected my spelling,do you care to make a valid point? -áThere are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... |
MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
527
|
Posted - 2012.08.20 19:06:00 -
[12] - Quote
so you are saying a rig to increase range of RR would be fine? cool...
pretty sure logis were boosted before we saw the death of moms...
and who is complaining about bombing fleets... they are the best anti blob tool we have... tbh...
and hell man i would like to see more use of internal reps to make up for the short commings up rr... so having an asb on that nano ship would help it survive untill it gets in range of those scimis... Ok, so you've corrected my spelling,do you care to make a valid point? -áThere are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... |
MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
527
|
Posted - 2012.08.20 19:43:00 -
[13] - Quote
Mizhir wrote:Makalu Zarya wrote:t1 logistics frigates are useless...can we please not get a slap in the face...if you gonna make logi frigates they at least need to be t2...t1 is just worthless crap Have you considered the thought that not everything in this game is designed for (bitter) nullsec vets?
indeed i just had an argument with liang who forgot about wh space and high sec as a reason not to bring RR in line... Ok, so you've corrected my spelling,do you care to make a valid point? -áThere are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... |
MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
527
|
Posted - 2012.08.20 19:44:00 -
[14] - Quote
Cahvus wrote:Liang Nuren wrote:MeBiatch wrote: well no 1 ccp already said they want cruisers to be faster and more agile... so they will end up being nano any ways...
as for the medium vrs large... well 20 km is not so bad... 52 km range is more then enough to kite with... and hey they could always add a rig that could increase the range of RR right?
the only thing i would do i get rid of the drone rep bonus and replace with a rr efficiency bonus... lets say 7.5% per lev... that would take that 192 per medium rep and turn it into 264 to which i would be happy with...
so in practice you are loosing 100 rep per cycle and 20 km... which imo would bring them in line with the fact they are CRUISERS!
also back in the day putting rr on a bs was standard before they boosted the hell out of logi ships... so its not unheard off... plus IMO the bs sized ones would have 7ish high slots so there potential rep amount would make them worth using...
So, the thing about it is that 20km of RR range is a really big deal, especially given the fact that they're cruisers. The simple fact of the matter is that fights involving kiting can be really spread out (100s of km) and a Logi is expected to be everywhere... all the time. Furthermore, logistics don't need a RR amount nerf - as it stands a 3 RR Scimitar is not going to keep up a BC against another BC. And ultimately, the problem you're concerned about (RR BS disappearance) has absolutely nothing to do with logistics ships. They weren't even boosted around that time. What you're seeing is the effect of BOMBS and SUPERCARRIERS. Bringing RR BS is asking to lose your entire fleet to 4 bombers. -Liang In addition to what Liang said I think range is even MORE important for frig gangs than for the current logis. The current logi ships are faster and more agile than most of the ships they will be repping. They have great range (71km for my badly skilled scimi) and plus they have the speed to burn towards anyone out of range, enabling them to effectively rep most anyone on grid. In comparison, with the ~28ish max range for frigs you are setting them up for failure. Logi frigs will obviously only be mainly used for frigate gangs, and combined with the speed and tank (or lack thereof) of frigates, having a larger range seems MORE important to these new frigates than to their Cruiser counterparts. In addition, most frigates speed tank, meaning more spread out fleets of frigates and often it seems they may end up being faster than the logi ships. Does this not sound like it would be a problem?
no if you are out of range of rr use an interal rep... thats what they are there for ffs... Ok, so you've corrected my spelling,do you care to make a valid point? -áThere are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... |
MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
527
|
Posted - 2012.08.20 19:50:00 -
[15] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:MeBiatch wrote:Mizhir wrote:Makalu Zarya wrote:t1 logistics frigates are useless...can we please not get a slap in the face...if you gonna make logi frigates they at least need to be t2...t1 is just worthless crap Have you considered the thought that not everything in this game is designed for (bitter) nullsec vets? indeed i just had an argument with liang who forgot about wh space and high sec as a reason not to bring RR in line... No, you had an argument where you presented terrible reasoning for a terrible nerf. I proceded to destroy your reasoning and now you're just making **** up. And in case it has escaped your attention, I've spent 2.5 of the last 3 years living in wormholes. I might just know something about it. -Liang
right so thats why you chose to use supercarriers as an example... how good are they in wh space again? or bombs in high sec...
its not a terrible idea... its a great one... one that you PERSONALLY dont agree with... and to this i would suggest how about we just agree to not agree because neither of us is going to convince the other that thier ideas are wrong... but hopefully we have presented reasonable arguments that ccp then can use in internal convos to better enhance the game... Ok, so you've corrected my spelling,do you care to make a valid point? -áThere are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... |
MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
528
|
Posted - 2012.08.21 02:00:00 -
[16] - Quote
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:Marcel Devereux wrote:Can you make the Inquisitor and Navitas faster? The Small Remote Repair Augmentor is going to slow these two down even more. Racial templates is nice and all but you need to take into account the slow down from plates and armor rigs. As it is the shields once can field a nice local tank thanks to ASB's. We need to do one better, we need to tweak the armor rigs so that things that aren't strapping steel onto your hull (trimarks) aren't slowing your ship down. So you're pumping some juice through your reps. Give it a sig bloom. But slowing down Gallente ships further with the rigs they need to do anything at all is silly. All that to say, speeding up the Navitas is a band-aid. CCP needs to revist changing the penalty on a few select rigs to not cripple a racial fleet style just for the sake of having a pattern in rigs.
they tried to do this a few months ago and got trolled pretty hard by the community... i think they need to rethink all rig penalties in the first place... Ok, so you've corrected my spelling,do you care to make a valid point? -áThere are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... |
MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
529
|
Posted - 2012.08.21 15:57:00 -
[17] - Quote
Maliatida wrote:Frigates keeping transversal at speed at 25km+ away are not viable targets for virtually anything that you can solo in.. stopped reading at this point... there are boat loads of ships that can do this... curse. ANY DRONE boat. and so on... just because you have a fav solo frig you might not beable to take out a logi frig with does not mean that you cant... you CHOOSE not too... which IMO is not mine or CCP problem. Ok, so you've corrected my spelling,do you care to make a valid point? -áThere are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... |
MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
529
|
Posted - 2012.08.21 15:59:00 -
[18] - Quote
Lili Lu wrote:good post about local eccm.
i would try an projected eccm chain... remote eccm is alot more effective then local eccm...
like i would put on a mid slot for you longer range frigs have a remote eccm and put it on the logi ship...
i know we do this all the time with tech II logi ships and stuff so they dont get jammed... Ok, so you've corrected my spelling,do you care to make a valid point? -áThere are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... |
MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
529
|
Posted - 2012.08.21 16:11:00 -
[19] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:good post
as much as i hate to agree with you...
you are spot on with this... koodos... Ok, so you've corrected my spelling,do you care to make a valid point? -áThere are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... |
MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
533
|
Posted - 2012.08.21 23:10:00 -
[20] - Quote
Omnathious Deninard wrote:Marcel Devereux wrote:Omnathious Deninard wrote:Spugg Galdon wrote:Navitas: Frigate skill bonuses: 10% bonus to Armour Repair Bot Repair amount and hitpoints per level Role Bonus: 50% bonus to velocity of Repair Bots Slot layout: 2 H, 3 M, 3 L, 2 turrets Fittings: 49 PWG, 145 CPU Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 250 / 400 / 335 Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap per second): 390 / 195s / 2 Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 330 / 3.4 / 1450000 / 4.61s Drones (bandwidth / bay): 25 / 75 Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 38km / 675 / 7 Sensor strength: 11 Magnetometric Signature radius: 36 Cargo capacity: 280
Would this be really insane or loads of fun? The drone bay is a little large, something like 35 of 45 would be better and bandwith needs to be only 20, it is only T1 after all To get anywhere near the three small reps of the other ships you still need small reps and a bonus to drone rep amount. Even then you still need five light drones. My suggestion would be: Navitas: Frigate skill bonuses: 20% bonus to Armor Maintenance Bot transfer amount per level 10% reduction in Remote Armor Repair cap use Role Bonus: 500% bonus to the range of Remote Armor Repairers Slot layout: 3 H, 3 M, 3 L, 0 turrets Drones (bandwidth/bay) 25/50 (<- The normal Gallente ratio!) With my other suggested changes 66% of the reps would come from modules and 33% from drones. If you give it 5 drones it will match the Tristan in drone damage, if you decrease the bandwidth by 5 and increase rep amount by 10% it will be the exact same
ccp muppet already said no to having drones because of the skills you would need... remember these are supposed to be noobish ships... wait for a tech II version for use skilled players...
Ok, so you've corrected my spelling,do you care to make a valid point? -áThere are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... |
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