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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 22 post(s) |
Blade Ripley
Hydra Squadron
12
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Posted - 2012.08.20 13:59:00 -
[61] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Belsina wrote:its fine that u redo the minig frigs to logi frigs but then u should redo the tormentor instead of the inquisitor
because the inquisitor is reserved as rocket missile boat (because ccp said there'll be a rocket/missile frig for every race)
think bout it ;) Since that dev blog was released the plans for frigates have changed. The Tristan is now planned as a drone boat and the Inquisitor as a logi frigate instead of missiles. Both of those races have no other tech one missile bonused ships, so the decision was made that a logistics frigate would serve them better.
However, the Kestrel, Tristan, Breacher and Inqusitor also serves as the basis for the new stealth bombers. They are not the same hull anymore, but they are clearly enlarged derivates from the original hulls. So for the 3 other races, the stealhtbomber will be based of one of the combat frigates, while for the Amarr the stealh bomber will be based on the logistic frigate. That doesnt really makes sense. So in the interest of keeping a reasonable lore, I'd say switch the hulls.
If you are not doing it now, players will probably bug you about it for the next 5 years anyway |
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CCP Fozzie
C C P C C P Alliance
1073
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Posted - 2012.08.20 14:00:00 -
[62] - Quote
Mizhir wrote:Michael Harari wrote:how does this not make solo pvp exponentially harder? I doubt Kil2 will like this.
I expect I would get an earful from him and Kovorix if it wasn't for the fact that he completely ignores frigates.
Yes any change that extends the length of fights and makes killing key ships quickly harder makes soloing harder, and that's something we knew going into this. In the end we believe that the options this gives small gangs and new pilots outweighs the downsides.
We have not forgotten solo pilots, even though this ship class does make things somewhat harder for them. |
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Terrorfrodo
Deep Space Darwinian Law Enforcement Agency
161
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Posted - 2012.08.20 14:06:00 -
[63] - Quote
Sounds like the game lacks a counter to these new frigates. Where is the frigate-sized, equally cheap ship that has range bonuses to energy neutralizing to suck the logi frigs dry?
And they should probably have lower sensor strength to make jamming them more effective. The Invulnerability Sphere:Make mining/industrial vessels defendable, better fights for everyone! |
Michael Harari
The Hatchery Team Liquid
252
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Posted - 2012.08.20 14:07:00 -
[64] - Quote
I fear it makes soloing impossible. killing frig sized targets can be extremely hard. This forces you to kill them first, while they are tanking hundreds or thousands of applied dps |
Blade Ripley
Hydra Squadron
12
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Posted - 2012.08.20 14:10:00 -
[65] - Quote
Terrorfrodo wrote:
And they should probably have lower sensor strength to make jamming them more effective.
The new 2-lowslot griffin should be able to more or less permajam a logistc frigate or 3 |
Mashie Saldana
BFG Tech
572
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Posted - 2012.08.20 14:13:00 -
[66] - Quote
I'm looking forward to fly a T2 Navitas one day... Dominique Vasilkovsky Mashie Saldana Monica Foulkes |
Gypsio III
Chemikals Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
323
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Posted - 2012.08.20 14:14:00 -
[67] - Quote
Blade Ripley wrote:Terrorfrodo wrote:
And they should probably have lower sensor strength to make jamming them more effective.
The new 2-lowslot griffin should be able to more or less permajam a logistc frigate or 3
Yeah, the Burst has a single-digit sensor strength. Nine, heh. Depends on what CCP's mysterious "idea" for ECM is though.
Also, their shortish lock ranges will make RSDs on the new Maulus reasonably effective if the target logi wants to hang about outside tackle range. |
Michael Harari
The Hatchery Team Liquid
252
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Posted - 2012.08.20 14:15:00 -
[68] - Quote
Force multipliers as strong as logi should not be on throwaway disposable hulls |
aoeu Itonula
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2012.08.20 14:17:00 -
[69] - Quote
Michael Harari wrote:Force multipliers as strong as logi should not be on throwaway disposable hulls You mean like EAFs? Let's be frank here, with the cost of a full t2/deadspace fit, the difference between a fully fit t1 frig and fully fit t2 frig is negligible. |
Michael Harari
The Hatchery Team Liquid
252
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Posted - 2012.08.20 14:21:00 -
[70] - Quote
aoeu Itonula wrote:Michael Harari wrote:Force multipliers as strong as logi should not be on throwaway disposable hulls You mean like EAFs? Let's be frank here, with the cost of a full t2/deadspace fit, the difference between a fully fit t1 frig and fully fit t2 frig is negligible. unlike eaf ewar remote reps stack infinitely. There is no reason to not spam these ships and b put every single new player in one |
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serras bang
Lucien Coven
9
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Posted - 2012.08.20 14:24:00 -
[71] - Quote
Terrorfrodo wrote:Sounds like the game lacks a counter to these new frigates. Where is the frigate-sized, equally cheap ship that has range bonuses to energy neutralizing to suck the logi frigs dry?
And they should probably have lower sensor strength to make jamming them more effective.
Long range missle bombardment ? |
Shiroh Yatamii
Alexylva Paradox
5
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Posted - 2012.08.20 14:24:00 -
[72] - Quote
It will make solo harder only in the sense of you, a solo pilot, engaging more than one person at a time. It wouldn't be 1v1, it would be 1v2. If you honestly expect your single ship to be able to counter two ships of equal size and the like, I'm not sure what to tell you. EVE is not fundamentally a solo game. Solo can be fun, but solo activities are not the baseline by which we should measure the utility of ships or modules. The corporation is, after all, the fundamental unit of organization in the game.
This is not an RPG where you are the Big Hero who takes on All The Bad Guys at once. While incredibly skilled (and sometimes lucky) pilots can take on multiple enemies at once and survive, this is the exception rather than the norm by mechanics and design. |
MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
522
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Posted - 2012.08.20 14:25:00 -
[73] - Quote
MeBiatch wrote:Awesome! now please make a tech II version!
these ships are just too awesome for us vets not to have one and a tech II version is just pure sweet!
make the gal have a bonus to remote ECCM
make the caldari have a bonus to remote sensor boosters
make the ammar have a bonus ( well i dunno what counters target painting remotely?) you would need some new mod thats a remote senor shadow (reduces sig raduis of target ship)
then tracking link for minnie to counter tracking disrupters...
to expand further on this i would like to see the other tech II bonus be reduction in sig radius...
also the tracking link would be rather useless for the minnie one so how about an increased efficiency of cap batteries... that would make them less vulnerable to nueting...
also this brings up a good point the frig sized ones can only use small RR... which is a good thing..
i would like to see the same thing done for cruisersized logi ships where they can only fit medium sized RR...
then introduce a new bs thats logi role but can fit large ones then a tech II version that works with target breaking mods...
that way you would have a linear line of progression for logi pilots and provide some interesting roles going from frig up to bs sized ships... Ok, so you've corrected my spelling,do you care to make a valid point? -áThere are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... |
Michael Harari
The Hatchery Team Liquid
254
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Posted - 2012.08.20 14:26:00 -
[74] - Quote
Basically having super low sig, low skill requirement, super cheap logi is very bad for the game.
They scale without stacking penalty and work well even with poor skills. The benefit they give is out of proportion to both their in game cost and the player skill required to use them. Fighting them requires disproportionate effort, particularly if they are massed (which they will be).
I support your other changes fozzie, but this is a bad, bad idea.
An SFI, a cruiser designed from the ground up to be death to frigates would be unable to fight 2 probes and a merlin. A vagabond or cynabal, also designed as frigate killers would be similarly useless. A dual web autocannon hurricane would at best be able to escape from them with its neuts, and would be unable to break the tanks.
This gives a LARGE advantage for having SMALL advantage in numbers, and the nature of the advantage is one you cannot counter with piloting skill, but only with your own blob with ecm or high alpha anti frigate ships. |
Bouh Revetoile
Barricade.
51
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Posted - 2012.08.20 14:27:00 -
[75] - Quote
These frigates seems very far from the resilience of T2 logi we have now, and I'm not sure they will be able to repair effectively while fleeing from swarm of drones : MWD is hard to permarun with cap intensive modules on a frigate. As Fozzie said, they are slow and even AF may catch them. They will have a very hard life on the battlefield.
If solo : kill the logi frig ; it'll be easier and faster than anything before. If they have more than one logi frig, then they would have been at least 3, and you would have been in great trouble anyway. |
El'ismhur Khunsiu
Aries Engineering Quasar Generation
0
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Posted - 2012.08.20 14:29:00 -
[76] - Quote
About rep.
I suppose you keep the transfert shield in the beginning of the cycle and for the armor in the end ?
I hope that the armor cycle will be faster ( Faster cycle but less HP repair).
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MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
522
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Posted - 2012.08.20 14:31:00 -
[77] - Quote
Michael Harari wrote:Basically having super low sig, low skill requirement, super cheap logi is very bad for the game.
They scale without stacking penalty and work well even with poor skills. The benefit they give is out of proportion to both their in game cost and the player skill required to use them. Fighting them requires disproportionate effort, particularly if they are massed (which they will be).
I support your other changes fozzie, but this is a bad, bad idea.
umm no this is a MMO... if people team up there should be a bonus for that..
a drone boat would make short work of the logi frig...
so too would an alt in an ecm ship...
the fact that this changes the niche game style that you play does not make it bad...
i have played gal since i started and they have been kicked in the nuts more then once... but i still play them... remember this game evolves and if you dont with it you die!
Ok, so you've corrected my spelling,do you care to make a valid point? -áThere are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... |
Geoscape
RvB - BLUE Republic
37
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Posted - 2012.08.20 14:31:00 -
[78] - Quote
When i was in null-sec, i flew logistics exclusively.
Most fights started with a series of blue flashes lasting maybe 15 seconds. It was all our light tackle getting annihilated by a few Lokis or other frigate killers and droneswarms. Because we were usually at range, we rarely able to save our frigs since they were very close to the enemy. As a logistics pilot this made me very sad .
With these new logistics frigates (and a few smartbombs to take care of droneswarms) the hostiles would require more than a few Lokis to keep the light tackle at bay. |
MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
522
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Posted - 2012.08.20 14:32:00 -
[79] - Quote
Bouh Revetoile wrote:These frigates seems very far from the resilience of T2 logi we have now, and I'm not sure they will be able to repair effectively while fleeing from swarm of drones : MWD is hard to permarun with cap intensive modules on a frigate. As Fozzie said, they are slow and even AF may catch them. They will have a very hard life on the battlefield.
If solo : kill the logi frig ; it'll be easier and faster than anything before. If they have more than one logi frig, then they would have been at least 3, and you would have been in great trouble anyway.
yeah serious kill the logi then that other ship would not have an internal rep so it goes down fast too...
someone tell me again whats this guys problems or did someone pee in his cheerios this morning... Ok, so you've corrected my spelling,do you care to make a valid point? -áThere are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... |
Pattern Clarc
Aperture Harmonics
388
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Posted - 2012.08.20 14:36:00 -
[80] - Quote
I'm not sure I buy into this at all... Frig's needed a global speed increase (+15% ish) to increase their survivability and better separate them from nano cruisers.
Moar logi really address the things that disproportionately make frigs exceptionally weak, eg, alpha, neuts and ecm - more so, they become even more prevalent. Ex CSM member & Designer of the Tornado. Gallente - Pilot satisfaction |
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Aethlyn
EVE University Ivy League
133
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Posted - 2012.08.20 14:37:00 -
[81] - Quote
Sounds really interesting, although I'm not 100% sold on the range. It feels a bit big and might make it even moure tricky to not multi box with the range boost being somewhere between 300 and 400 % only. Looking for more thoughts? Read http://aethlyn.blogspot.com/ or follow me on http://twitter.com/Aethlyn. |
iskflakes
Magnets Inc.
37
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Posted - 2012.08.20 14:38:00 -
[82] - Quote
These recent frigate changes only affect about 1% of the playerbase, not worth the effort in my opinion. New DUST players won't want to rep anything anyway. Track your wealth with EVE Stats: https://ohheck.co.uk/EVEStats/home.php |
MIrple
BSC LEGION Tactical Narcotics Team
64
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Posted - 2012.08.20 14:38:00 -
[83] - Quote
MeBiatch wrote:Bouh Revetoile wrote:These frigates seems very far from the resilience of T2 logi we have now, and I'm not sure they will be able to repair effectively while fleeing from swarm of drones : MWD is hard to permarun with cap intensive modules on a frigate. As Fozzie said, they are slow and even AF may catch them. They will have a very hard life on the battlefield.
If solo : kill the logi frig ; it'll be easier and faster than anything before. If they have more than one logi frig, then they would have been at least 3, and you would have been in great trouble anyway. yeah serious kill the logi then that other ship would not have an internal rep so it goes down fast too... someone tell me again whats this guys problems or did someone pee in his cheerios this morning...
I am guess that he likes to kill easy t1 frig targets in his expensive t2 ship. Now he will have to work for it and he doesn't care for it to much. I could be wrong though |
Bouh Revetoile
Barricade.
51
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Posted - 2012.08.20 14:45:00 -
[84] - Quote
Bouh Revetoile wrote:These frigates seems very far from the resilience of T2 logi we have now, and I'm not sure they will be able to repair effectively while fleeing from swarm of drones : MWD is hard to permarun with cap intensive modules on a frigate. As Fozzie said, they are slow and even AF may catch them. They will have a very hard life on the battlefield.
If solo : kill the logi frig ; it'll be easier and faster than anything before. If they have more than one logi frig, then they would have been at least 3, and you would have been in great trouble anyway. I mean that I don't see this frigate as a problem because they are far less powerful than the T2 cruiser logi, even on the frigate scale. I think they are well designed as is : a powerful addition to a gang but with obvious weaknesses. |
Murashu
Phoibe Enterprises
61
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Posted - 2012.08.20 14:46:00 -
[85] - Quote
Great news for those of us who like flying frigs/dessies in small gangs! Between the logi frigates and the upgraded Breacher I'm really excited about this expansion. Now where are my missile destroyers? |
Stonecold Steve
I N E X T R E M I S Fidelas Constans
60
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Posted - 2012.08.20 14:48:00 -
[86] - Quote
I wonder what would happen with bomber fleets vs a full frig/destro fleet? Full t2/faction frig fleets protecting bigger fleets during ops. Including frig rep. Awesome! "Do not go where the path may lead, instead go where there is no path and leave a trail"- "You desire to know the art of living, my friend? It is contained in one phrase: make use of suffering."- |
Shiroh Yatamii
Alexylva Paradox
6
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Posted - 2012.08.20 14:48:00 -
[87] - Quote
Oh yes, missile destroyers. Yes please! I am looking forward to the Minmatar one in particular. |
Manar Detri
31
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Posted - 2012.08.20 14:51:00 -
[88] - Quote
Michael Harari wrote:A merlin with one of these repping it gets nearly a 300 dps tank. That is breakable with 2 assault frigs no prob, usually an assault frig with no damage mods does 170-200 dps, should work nice. Edit: "oh, so just go kill the logi frigate" - indeed, this is a good advice, one af keeps the other ship pinned down while the other one mwd's to the logig frig.
Your example is horrible. Here i fixed it for you. Oh yeah just to make sure you understand, my ruppie with scimi support will kill your t2 cruiser np. |
Inepsa1987
Caldari Deep Space Ventures
7
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Posted - 2012.08.20 14:59:00 -
[89] - Quote
Fozzie best dev. Spaceship Pilot. |
MisterNick
The Sagan Clan Pax Romana Alliance
84
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Posted - 2012.08.20 15:01:00 -
[90] - Quote
Love it Love everything about it WTB Navitas "Human beings make life so interesting. Do you know that in a universe so full of wonders, they have managed to invent boredom." |
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