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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 22 post(s) |
Shegunna Blow
EVE University Ivy League
0
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Posted - 2012.08.21 01:07:00 -
[211] - Quote
I'm disappointed to see each race frigate have the same exact bonus'. I'd like to see something more diverse along the lines of the current logi ships.
This along with the recent "inty" style frigates that were just updated, feels like each ship is more or less the same but painted different colors. (minor differences in tank and turret/launcher choice aside) |
Hans Jagerblitzen
Autocannons Anonymous Late Night Alliance
2756
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Posted - 2012.08.21 01:11:00 -
[212] - Quote
Marcel Devereux wrote:Can you make the Inquisitor and Navitas faster? The Small Remote Repair Augmentor is going to slow these two down even more. Racial templates is nice and all but you need to take into account the slow down from plates and armor rigs. As it is the shields once can field a nice local tank thanks to ASB's.
We need to do one better, we need to tweak the armor rigs so that things that aren't strapping steel onto your hull (trimarks) aren't slowing your ship down. So you're pumping some juice through your reps. Give it a sig bloom. But slowing down Gallente ships further with the rigs they need to do anything at all is silly.
All that to say, speeding up the Navitas is a band-aid. CCP needs to revist changing the penalty on a few select rigs to not cripple a racial fleet style just for the sake of having a pattern in rigs. Vice Secretary of the 7th Council of Stellar Management.
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Hans Jagerblitzen
Autocannons Anonymous Late Night Alliance
2756
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Posted - 2012.08.21 01:13:00 -
[213] - Quote
Jori McKie wrote:@Fozzie
You have to consider the repping power of 400DPS that is way to much. This is more than Sentries in lowsec apply ....
OH HO HO HO HO.
Merry Christmas.
Vice Secretary of the 7th Council of Stellar Management.
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Hans Jagerblitzen
Autocannons Anonymous Late Night Alliance
2759
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Posted - 2012.08.21 01:19:00 -
[214] - Quote
Mara Rinn wrote:I'd love to see reduced cycle time instead of increased repair amount on these things. Frigates are small, frigate fights are fast. No sense repairing 110% of my target's shields each cycle, know what I mean?
I do actually agree with this one, speed makes more sense that strength, ESPECIALLY with armor reps. There will be much work to be in testing, I'll be flying these myself alongside you guys once they're on SiSi. If they need some extra love to get functioning just right, that speed may be it. This makes a lot of sense when coupled with the cap bonus that many of you are questioning the existence of. Zippier reps need more cap to keep up the same amount of HP / s. Vice Secretary of the 7th Council of Stellar Management.
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Lelob
ElitistOps Pandemic Legion
54
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Posted - 2012.08.21 01:38:00 -
[215] - Quote
Why the inquisitor exactly? It's the only amarr rocket ship. Hopefully another amarr frig gets rockets instead. |
CobaltSixty
The Night Wardens Viro Mors Non Est
54
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Posted - 2012.08.21 01:41:00 -
[216] - Quote
CCP Fozzie, the Tormentor should be in the Inquisitor's spot. There's really no shame in admitting that the first, inexplicably early revision of one of the least used hulls in the game was incorrect. I'm still 100% expecting a missile Inquisitor that doesn't suck, so fix it. Besides, "Tormentor" is a much more appropriate name for something that prevents you from killing someone.
Also, I fully agree with switching the rep amount bonus to a cycle time bonus so armor is not as gimped with late reps. The remote repair capacitor reduction will have to be increased to support quicker cycles. Shouldn't really be a big deal, just switch the range and amount bonuses.
Example Bantam Frigate skill bonuses: 100% bonus to the range of shield transporters per level 15% bonus to shield transporter capacitor use per level Role bonus: 33% reduction in shield transporter duration
Instead of getting better repair performance as the pilot's frigate skill improves, they gain additional range. Thoughts? |
Hans Jagerblitzen
Autocannons Anonymous Late Night Alliance
2759
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Posted - 2012.08.21 01:48:00 -
[217] - Quote
CobaltSixty wrote:CCP Fozzie, the Tormentor should be in the Inquisitor's spot. There's really no shame in admitting that the first, inexplicably early revision of one of the least used hulls in the game was incorrect. I'm still 100% expecting a missile Inquisitor that doesn't suck, so fix it. Besides, "Tormentor" is a much more appropriate name for something that prevents you from killing someone.
All the ridiculous sense of entitlement aside, he does make a good point at the end about the name :) Vice Secretary of the 7th Council of Stellar Management.
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MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
528
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Posted - 2012.08.21 02:00:00 -
[218] - Quote
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:Marcel Devereux wrote:Can you make the Inquisitor and Navitas faster? The Small Remote Repair Augmentor is going to slow these two down even more. Racial templates is nice and all but you need to take into account the slow down from plates and armor rigs. As it is the shields once can field a nice local tank thanks to ASB's. We need to do one better, we need to tweak the armor rigs so that things that aren't strapping steel onto your hull (trimarks) aren't slowing your ship down. So you're pumping some juice through your reps. Give it a sig bloom. But slowing down Gallente ships further with the rigs they need to do anything at all is silly. All that to say, speeding up the Navitas is a band-aid. CCP needs to revist changing the penalty on a few select rigs to not cripple a racial fleet style just for the sake of having a pattern in rigs.
they tried to do this a few months ago and got trolled pretty hard by the community... i think they need to rethink all rig penalties in the first place... Ok, so you've corrected my spelling,do you care to make a valid point? -áThere are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... |
Mors Sanctitatis
Death of Virtue
872
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Posted - 2012.08.21 02:15:00 -
[219] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Mizhir wrote:Michael Harari wrote:how does this not make solo pvp exponentially harder? I doubt Kil2 will like this. I expect I would get an earful from him and Kovorix if it wasn't for the fact that he completely ignores frigates. Yes any change that extends the length of fights and makes killing key ships quickly harder makes soloing harder, and that's something we knew going into this. In the end we believe that the options this gives small gangs and new pilots outweighs the downsides. We have not forgotten solo pilots, even though this ship class does make things somewhat harder for them.
So, anything planned to improve the outlook for solo PVP pilots? The massively reduced ability to fight solo (over years of changes) is one of the key reasons I've cancelled all of my accounts. Intelligence shouldn't be free. -á Mining, reloaded. -á-áADDICTED. |
Linna Excel
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
71
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Posted - 2012.08.21 02:26:00 -
[220] - Quote
Logi frigates? What's logi? Wasn't he the fire dude in das rhinegold?
I can see why CCP is doing this, but these seem very specialized for a frigate class. What do you get when you cross an owl and a bungee cord? |
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Sigras
Conglomo IMPERIAL LEGI0N
172
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Posted - 2012.08.21 02:40:00 -
[221] - Quote
I feel like everyone complaining in this thread is thinking about how hard it is to kill T2 logistics ships right now and imagining how much harder it will be to kill these things.
What people are forgetting is that these ships do not get the (idk what to even call it) "T2 sig radius" of the logistics ships.
These things are half the size of the logistics cruisers already, slap some shield rigs and a MSE on there and it will be huge.
Also its much easier to get 3-4 muninns at range to alpha strike a frigate than it is to get the 25 or so needed to alpha strike a regular logistics ship |
Marcel Devereux
Aideron Robotics
137
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Posted - 2012.08.21 02:52:00 -
[222] - Quote
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:Marcel Devereux wrote:Can you make the Inquisitor and Navitas faster? The Small Remote Repair Augmentor is going to slow these two down even more. Racial templates is nice and all but you need to take into account the slow down from plates and armor rigs. As it is the shields once can field a nice local tank thanks to ASB's. We need to do one better, we need to tweak the armor rigs so that things that aren't strapping steel onto your hull (trimarks) aren't slowing your ship down. So you're pumping some juice through your reps. Give it a sig bloom. But slowing down Gallente ships further with the rigs they need to do anything at all is silly. All that to say, speeding up the Navitas is a band-aid. CCP needs to revist changing the penalty on a few select rigs to not cripple a racial fleet style just for the sake of having a pattern in rigs.
Agreed. |
Agnar Volta
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
16
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Posted - 2012.08.21 03:12:00 -
[223] - Quote
Dear Fozzie,
If you really want to test this frigs, give a batch to us and we will put it to test.
I find the concept very appealing, and being part of the entity that uses tech I frigs the most, I think they will bring some special flavour to combat.
Range and speed seams good to me, also the amount of rep. Maybe you should look at the cycle a bit more, because a frig could easily be dead by the time the reps get to them.
This will also give a good use to that 4 high slot in the Attack Frigs, slap a neut in it and they will be the perfect logi killer.
I can see a much more dynamic battlefield with all this options available, not to mention lots of things for new players to do in a fleet besides orbit and press F1.
Thanks for the good work mate. Wish we had you doing this some years ago.
Edit: Do you still have some love for the Rifter? Seams to me that it will be the only frig that wont benefit from reps. |
Alara IonStorm
3006
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Posted - 2012.08.21 03:53:00 -
[224] - Quote
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:Marcel Devereux wrote:Can you make the Inquisitor and Navitas faster? The Small Remote Repair Augmentor is going to slow these two down even more. Racial templates is nice and all but you need to take into account the slow down from plates and armor rigs. As it is the shields once can field a nice local tank thanks to ASB's. We need to do one better, we need to tweak the armor rigs so that things that aren't strapping steel onto your hull (trimarks) aren't slowing your ship down. So you're pumping some juice through your reps. Give it a sig bloom. But slowing down Gallente ships further with the rigs they need to do anything at all is silly. All that to say, speeding up the Navitas is a band-aid. CCP needs to revist changing the penalty on a few select rigs to not cripple a racial fleet style just for the sake of having a pattern in rigs. I think they need to do one better then that and scrap the penalties all together.
Astronautics that nerf Armor, Electronics that nerf shield. That just shoehorns rigs by tank type. Armor penalties make most Armor Cruisers slower then Shield Canes. No wonder most people fit the Thorax, Hurricane, Harbinger, Brutix, Myrmidon and Rupture with Shield Tanks more often then not. Sig Rad Penalties don't amount to much realistically for Battlecruisers and Battleships in most fights but hurt smaller ships.
Honestly I think plate mass and extender sig is enough without these ships taking a second hit. Removing Rig Penalties would expand what types of ships use rigs and help ships like Frigates, Destroyers, Cruisers and Armor Battleships that suffer the most from them.
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Kalla Vera Quiroga
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
2
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Posted - 2012.08.21 04:25:00 -
[225] - Quote
I like these new toys. |
Gus Machado
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
0
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Posted - 2012.08.21 05:59:00 -
[226] - Quote
frigate logi fleets here i come. |
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
262
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Posted - 2012.08.21 06:10:00 -
[227] - Quote
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:All that to say, speeding up the Navitas is a band-aid. CCP needs to revist changing the penalty on a few select rigs to not cripple a racial fleet style just for the sake of having a pattern in rigs. Problem is that they are not likely to start making different penalties for rigs within the same group, so has to either make more groups or shuffle rigs around. But the "slapping steel on.." comment made me think. Q: when does one not want to be in full plate/battle gear? A: In the sun and/or when its hot. New penalty option #1: Modifier for the heat damage attribute of all fitted mods. Harder to get rid of excess heat so builds up more quickly .. New penalty option #2: Modifier for capacitor drain of all fitted mods. Harder to get rid of excess heat so additional power needed to avoid build-up.
@Fozzie: Would love to have comment on feasibility of my first post in this discussion of what might just be the best thing since toast with proper bitter marmalade.
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Takeshi Yamato
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
387
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Posted - 2012.08.21 06:19:00 -
[228] - Quote
Alara IonStorm wrote: Removing Rig Penalties would expand what types of ships use rigs and help ships like Frigates, Destroyers, Cruisers and Armor Battleships that suffer the most from them.
Seeing the outrage last time an attempt was made to change rig penalties, this might actually be the best solution (if also the least interesting) because few will object the removal of penalties.
Last time you were proposing a -20% reduction of penalties per level for each rigging skill, right? Drakes & Tengus online: http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1208/fbaugust.jpg |
Liang Nuren
Heretic Army Heretic Nation
1942
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Posted - 2012.08.21 06:24:00 -
[229] - Quote
Takeshi Yamato wrote: Last time you were proposing a -20% reduction of penalties per level for each rigging skill, right?
Heh, I actually have several rigging skills at 5. I am totally ok with this.
-Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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Galphii
Sileo In Pacis THE SPACE P0LICE
59
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Posted - 2012.08.21 06:32:00 -
[230] - Quote
This is a bit of a tangent question, but does anyone here think that an over-proliferation of logi is going to be a problem? I hear from my nullsec contacts that more and more fleets consist primarily of logi ships (scimis), so would a stacking penalty of some sort on remote repping be a good way to constraint overuse of logi? I mean, the alliance tournament puts a hard limit on logi ships for this reason (boring unkillable stalemate fleets) so perhaps its something that needs to be considered if we're going to see hordes of logi frigates running around. |
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Liang Nuren
Heretic Army Heretic Nation
1942
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Posted - 2012.08.21 06:34:00 -
[231] - Quote
Galphii wrote:This is a bit of a tangent question, but does anyone here think that an over-proliferation of logi is going to be a problem? I hear from my nullsec contacts that more and more fleets consist primarily of logi ships (scimis), so would a stacking penalty of some sort on remote repping be a good way to constraint overuse of logi? I mean, the alliance tournament puts a hard limit on logi ships for this reason (boring unkillable stalemate fleets) so perhaps its something that needs to be considered if we're going to see hordes of logi frigates running around.
I do believe I've heard the suggestion of removing healing in every PVP game I've ever played.
-Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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Alara IonStorm
3008
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Posted - 2012.08.21 06:44:00 -
[232] - Quote
Takeshi Yamato wrote: Last time you were proposing a -20% reduction of penalties per level for each rigging skill, right?
Yes. Either that or re-balancing Calibration Cost and having the skill lower it with 4-5 being primarily for T2 Rigs. I personally prefer the 20% solution. |
Vokradacka
Hedion University Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2012.08.21 07:28:00 -
[233] - Quote
Wtf ...? Slow , short range , 3k EHP frigates are problem for you guys? Seriously ? |
JamesCLK
Lone Star Exploration Lone Star Partners
192
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Posted - 2012.08.21 07:32:00 -
[234] - Quote
Alara IonStorm wrote:Takeshi Yamato wrote: Last time you were proposing a -20% reduction of penalties per level for each rigging skill, right?
Yes. Either that or re-balancing Calibration Cost and having the skill lower it with 4-5 being primarily for T2 Rigs. I personally prefer the 20% solution.
Changing drawbacks to reflect the actual use of the individual rig (not the type) is probably a better idea IMHO.
Fair enough that trimarks increase your mass, it's literally welding more armour to your ship (on a % base even). But isn't it somewhat ridiculous to imply that a rig that optimises the cycle time or repair amount (additional power feeds or additional repair nanite control feeds respectively) gives you the same kind of mass increase that adding tonnes of armour plating does; rather it might increase the PG or CPU use of a repairer. Just my 0.02 ISK.
/off topic?
I love the idea of logistics frigates as a logi pilot myself; flying these frigs is going to be a nice challenge (paper thin, relatively slow, limited range, etc...). I'm also going to echo the voices calling for armour mods in general to be looked at though.
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Alexander Yukari
TerraNovae Workers Trade Federation
13
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Posted - 2012.08.21 07:56:00 -
[235] - Quote
Very welcomed change.
Now pass this info to team doing incursions, and re-balance scouts sites in incursions. From start they were useless, not worth doing. Consider making them worthwhile for 2 logi frigs and 2-3 AF/dessies. ISK somewhere between lv2 and lv3 missions per h. Low entry point into incursions, good practice for people before training up for logi cruiser. |
Galphii
Sileo In Pacis THE SPACE P0LICE
59
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Posted - 2012.08.21 08:00:00 -
[236] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:Galphii wrote:This is a bit of a tangent question, but does anyone here think that an over-proliferation of logi is going to be a problem? I hear from my nullsec contacts that more and more fleets consist primarily of logi ships (scimis), so would a stacking penalty of some sort on remote repping be a good way to constraint overuse of logi? I mean, the alliance tournament puts a hard limit on logi ships for this reason (boring unkillable stalemate fleets) so perhaps its something that needs to be considered if we're going to see hordes of logi frigates running around. I do believe I've heard the suggestion of removing healing in every PVP game I've ever played. -Liang Fascinating but irrelevant, because that's not what I suggested. Buy new glasses perhaps? |
Liang Nuren
Heretic Army Heretic Nation
1943
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Posted - 2012.08.21 08:01:00 -
[237] - Quote
Galphii wrote:Fascinating but irrelevant, because that's not what I suggested. Buy new glasses perhaps?
You damn sure did pull a "because of heals!!!"
-Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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Benny Ohu
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
266
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Posted - 2012.08.21 09:03:00 -
[238] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:Galphii wrote:Fascinating but irrelevant, because that's not what I suggested. Buy new glasses perhaps? You damn sure did pull a "because of heals!!!" -Liang He expressed the opinion that too many logis might be boring. You started acting like a turd. |
feihcsiM
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
26
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Posted - 2012.08.21 09:17:00 -
[239] - Quote
Pretty sure I'm posting in a stealth EAF buff thread.
This is a good thing It's the end of the world as we know it and I feel fine. |
Magic Crisp
Amarrian Micro Devices Silent Infinity
38
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Posted - 2012.08.21 09:33:00 -
[240] - Quote
When will we have t2 versions of these firgs? seriously, these are just way too awesome to be left alone at this level. i was thinking of the possibility of frig logies for a long time, these would make nice additions to fleets :)
And what will happen to the cycle times of armor reps? shouldn't those be reconsidered also? 5 secs of repping on a frig is a lot of time, they don't always have that much of a buffer, especially when vagas and cynabals are on their neck.
Otherwise, so far so good :)
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