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Darek Castigatus
Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
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Posted - 2011.02.02 14:40:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Malcanis Oh look. It's this thread again.
Its like playing whack-a-mole only the target is undiluted stupid rather than a plastic rodent.
http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sig.php |
Chandaris
Gallente Lethal Devotion
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Posted - 2011.02.02 15:10:00 -
[62]
To play this game effectively as an industrialist / cap ship pilot you just need to join a decent corp/alliance and get others to haul or cyno for you.
or you can CHOOSE to do pay for a second account. nobody is holding a gun to your head.
and obviously players with two accounts have an advantage over players with one.. way to point out the obvious like there is something wrong with it?
Join a good corp if you're having trouble making iskies solo; it is that easy.
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Liorah
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Posted - 2011.02.02 15:24:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Jennifer Starling What the 'expansions' are concerned I also agree that I'd rather pay an extra $50 a year to get more and better content. Incursions = automated 'live events' and a portrait remake. And before we had the PI clickfest as the main "new attraction"?
I understand things like Incarna require a major effort but if I could get more and better and excellent content for a bit more money instead of what we get now I'd rather had that then expansions "at no additional cost".
Incarna is a completely different play style than the rest of the game. Depending on how much of that they force down our throats, we will all more or less be impacted by it. Just look at how they're pushing everything over to the Eve-Gate to foce people to use it, when previously no one gave it the time of day.
Incarna changes the way the game is played. They still have a lot of work to do to fix the game the way it's intended to be played now before they start changing gameplay altogether. I would much rather them fix the current game before adding new bits, especially changing something broken and/or incomplete into something NEW, broken and incomplete.
Someone else made the comparison between Eve's "Expansions" and wow's "Content Patches", and it's a very valid one. Usually, Wow's content patches are predictable and contrived, but they add genuinely new content to the game. They're about as buggy as the Eve patches, though lately Eve has taken a turn for the worse. Wow's expansions are vast and rather impressive, even for someone who doesn't like Blizzard.
There's no way I'd pay for an Eve "expansion" until they start comparing in quality and content to actual real expansions released by other games.
But to the main topic ... I have two accounts, because I wanted to do combat and I wanted to have an industrial character. Since I started so late compared to everyone else in this thread, I knew that either I ponied up the extra money for another account to do the variety of things everyone else could do with one account, or I just learn to do without and wait for the 2-3 years it would take to do multiple things on one character. The idea of paying via PLEX made the decision easier.
One of Eve's unique aspects, time-based skill learning system, is also a barrier to entry for new players compared to older players.
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TuHellen Back
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Posted - 2011.02.02 16:16:00 -
[64]
If the OP's theory that each account costs $15 per month, with 5 accounts I should be paying $75. What hes seems to forget is that by running 4 of the 5 simultaneously, either mining, missioning and salvaging. Running PI, manufacturing or just accumulating datacores, the purchase of 5 plexes per month is chicken feed. It equates to 11 mill ISK per toon per day.
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Miss Connolly
Public Relations Corp
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Posted - 2011.02.02 16:25:00 -
[65]
Edited by: Miss Connolly on 02/02/2011 16:26:48
Originally by: Liorah Someone else made the comparison between Eve's "Expansions" and wow's "Content Patches", and it's a very valid one. Usually, Wow's content patches are predictable and contrived, but they add genuinely new content to the game. They're about as buggy as the Eve patches, though lately Eve has taken a turn for the worse. Wow's expansions are vast and rather impressive, even for someone who doesn't like Blizzard.
Not that I'm any big fan of Blizzard/Vivendi or anything but one thing that they really do well is their patch process and bug fixing. In EVE we had features that were literally broken for years (drones not returning, desync issues, ships being 10 times faster then light missiles due to imbecilic speed-mod stacking, etc.etc.pp.). Not only technical problems but simply terribad game design that was never tested and never though-through properly. In the case of EVE these issues were fixed within about 3-4 years (and often broken again a patch later). In the case of WOW any such critical bugs would have been fixed within days (if not hot fixed directly without as much as a server restart). If it's a complicated issue to address then they might take a few weeks (e.g. lag problems that require an update of their infrastructure).
Bottom line: comparing a "professional" game company like Blizzard that built their products specifically with technical manageability in mind (e.g. building everything up in a modular fashion and using only clearly designed and defined interfaces to interact with the different layers) and comparing a company like CCP (who's flagship product was designed over 10 years ago by students) is simply not a fair comparison.
The main difference is this: if a Blizzard game designer thinks "hey wouldn't it be cool if there were no limit on the number of people that can take part in a PVP battle" then that idea will never be implemented because 20 other people will say "forget it! your idea is technically problematic, scales badly if the number of users increases by a factor of 10 and we can't provide a product that is already flawed by design". So the idea dies and you get what WOW is today (a very very limited world compared to EVE but a technically well designed one). In the case of EVE the idea would probably have been implemented because it holds true to CCPs vision of EVE - not matter how technically feasible (or not feasible) it may be.
I find both methods of game design have huge advantages and disadvantages. EVE has a vision and holds true to that vision but is technically not very sound. WOW on the other hand is technically wonderful and extremely stable but at the cost of openness and possibilities (both for the players and game designers).
I guess it's down to personal taste (and I personally can deal with both sorts of companies even if I tend to find the "by the books" games (e.g. WOW) quite boring and shallow).
___________________ "It was mentioned by CCP that the data does not seem to support that polished quality sells better than new features."
These are the people you are giving your money to. |
Murev Vorchilde
Caldari End Game.
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Posted - 2011.02.02 16:28:00 -
[66]
Why would you ever need more then one account -
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TuHellen Back
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Posted - 2011.02.02 16:31:00 -
[67]
Edited by: TuHellen Back on 02/02/2011 16:32:13
Originally by: Murev Vorchilde Why would you ever need more then one account
How could anyone only play one account at a time? Travelling anywhere would drive me nuts,and waiting for 30 day skills to finish on one account argh! PLus there is always someone online to talk to.
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Thrauskold Dreir
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Posted - 2011.02.02 16:33:00 -
[68]
Edited by: Thrauskold Dreir on 02/02/2011 16:33:38 So, like, we have these Sansha incursions now right. We didn't have them before, right? So... the content of the game has been expanded... so it's an expansion, right?
So they aren't just patches... right?
Right.
And where the **** do these mandatory second accounts come from? I've never had a second account and I still get my free expansions.
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Rashmika Clavain
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.02.02 16:48:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Feligast Irony: Poasting a rant about needing multiple accounts from an alt.
hehe I was going to say it is ironic to maon about hte need for multiple characters in a MMO instead of flying with a gang.
Get some friends? *shrug*
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Malcanis
Caldari Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2011.02.02 17:08:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Cathy Drall
Originally by: Malcanis Oh look. It's this thread again.
OMG there's steam coming out of his head!!
Steam... yes. That's right, steam.
Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players. |
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Ana Vyr
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Posted - 2011.02.02 17:12:00 -
[71]
I refuse to pay for a second account. I just don't think its right one should have to to be competitive in a game.
This fact has crippled me in situations where corpies were unavailable to haul/fly an ORCA for me. There's certainly no point in owning an ORCA when you have one account. My corpies headed out to nullsec to enjoy a little of all that brings, so I stayed behind to run a research POS (just don't have physical time to be a nullsec guy and contribute meaningfully to that effort). Now that I'm flying solo, not having multiple accounts kinda hurts.
However, it's MY fault things are the way they are. Not buying a second account is entirely my call here. CCP doesn't make any bones about multiple accounts being required or not. Multiple accounts being an advantage in EvE is obvious though, IMO.
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Salliene
Gallente Paktu Sjet Armada Galactic System Lords Alliance
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Posted - 2011.02.02 17:33:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Ana Vyr
However, it's MY fault things are the way they are. Not buying a second account is entirely my call here. CCP doesn't make any bones about multiple accounts being required or not. Multiple accounts being an advantage in EvE is obvious though, IMO.
Having multiple accounts in ANY game is an advantage. Back in the day they used to be forbidden (not by EVE but by other MMOs), but there was no way to police it and the accountants told the game designers to STFU and let people pay more to play more.
EVE doesn't require multiple accounts. Do multiple accounts help? Of course. But someone who has 8 hours a day to play has an advantage over someone who has 8 hours a week to play. Should the game be adjusted so that both of them are on equal ground?
No.
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Archbeholder
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Posted - 2011.02.02 17:50:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Salliene
Having multiple accounts in ANY game is an advantage.
Nope, not really.
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Salliene
Gallente Paktu Sjet Armada Galactic System Lords Alliance
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Posted - 2011.02.02 17:55:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Archbeholder
Originally by: Salliene
Having multiple accounts in ANY game is an advantage.
Nope, not really.
Your well reasoned response has completely deflated my point! I bow to your superior debate skills, master.
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Archbeholder
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Posted - 2011.02.02 18:56:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Salliene
Your well reasoned response has completely deflated my point! I bow to your superior debate skills, master.
If you can't realise how artificially blunt this nessesity for alts has been created by ccp then you're beyond redemption.
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Cathy Drall
Amarr Royal Amarr Institute
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Posted - 2011.02.02 20:27:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Salliene Having multiple accounts in ANY game is an advantage.
Well I have to agree with Archbeholder here: in most games it's no use at all to have two accounts. More characters, yes - but not more accounts.
Most games don't have things like semi-afk mining, afk fleet boosting or cynos and gameplay is generally that intensive that operating another character is almost impossible and has limited or no use.
"Im not nearly as paranoid as people think I am" |
Centri Sixx
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Posted - 2011.02.02 21:16:00 -
[77]
It's not teamwork. Teamwork is good! It's PLEX and alts allowing people to subvert teamwork by running alternate accounts to do many of the functions in the game:
-cyno alt -real-time salvaging during a mission -mining support and aditional barges -probe alt -scout alt -rr alt. -hauling alt with good sec status
Many letting them break game mechanics by dumping them into an NPC corp to avoid aggression mechanics. This actually works against teamwork by letting people become too self-sufficient, and also lets a supposedly hardcore game promote carebearing by using separate accounts to mitigate risk and speed up isk generation.
The best thing to happen to this game would be to limit characters to 1 per account, and remove plex. You'd get rid of most of the botting accounts, add a lot more risk since people could only fulfill one function, add a lot more accountability since you can only get rid of your character by biomassing and starting fresh, and would encourage corp attendance and thereby pvp risk.
I don't think it's realistic for it to happen, but the OP has a point.
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Rykuss
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Posted - 2011.02.02 21:24:00 -
[78]
Originally by: ARES XII I think he mad.
Yep, he mad.
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Vabjekf
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.02.02 21:55:00 -
[79]
Originally by: Centri Sixx It's not teamwork. Teamwork is good! It's PLEX and alts allowing people to subvert teamwork by running alternate accounts to do many of the functions in the game:
-cyno alt -real-time salvaging during a mission -mining support and aditional barges -probe alt -scout alt -rr alt. -hauling alt with good sec status
Many letting them break game mechanics by dumping them into an NPC corp to avoid aggression mechanics. This actually works against teamwork by letting people become too self-sufficient, and also lets a supposedly hardcore game promote carebearing by using separate accounts to mitigate risk and speed up isk generation.
The best thing to happen to this game would be to limit characters to 1 per account, and remove plex. You'd get rid of most of the botting accounts, add a lot more risk since people could only fulfill one function, add a lot more accountability since you can only get rid of your character by biomassing and starting fresh, and would encourage corp attendance and thereby pvp risk.
I don't think it's realistic for it to happen, but the OP has a point.
Game would have been better if nobody could have any alts at all. One character per account, one account per person. Go back in time and change this and the eve of today would be a paradise with nul sec trade lanes policed by player empires. Probably wouldn't have SCs either, or these horrible sov mechanics.
Yep, a paradise.
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Space Jew Sandwitch
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Posted - 2011.02.02 22:20:00 -
[80]
If your gringing out 330m ISK to play the game isn't that a lot like having a second job? I mean you could turn tricks behind a mcdonalds much faster and pay 15 bucks
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Archbeholder
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Posted - 2011.02.02 22:45:00 -
[81]
Originally by: Space Jew Sandwitch If your gringing out 330m ISK to play the game isn't that a lot like having a second job? I mean you could turn tricks behind a mcdonalds much faster and pay 15 bucks
You and your common sense don't belong on eve forums! shoo!
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Rykuss
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Posted - 2011.02.02 22:56:00 -
[82]
Originally by: Space Jew Sandwitch If your gringing out 330m ISK to play the game isn't that a lot like having a second job? I mean you could turn tricks behind a mcdonalds much faster and pay 15 bucks
One billion served?
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Zhim'Fufu
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Posted - 2011.02.02 22:58:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Archbeholder
Originally by: Space Jew Sandwitch If your gringing out 330m ISK to play the game isn't that a lot like having a second job? I mean you could turn tricks behind a mcdonalds much faster and pay 15 bucks
You and your common sense don't belong on eve forums! shoo!
If accumulating enough isk for a plex is a grind then you are doing it wrong. Not anyones fault but your own if you don't know how to make at least billions of isk off a few days 'work' in eve. Just as an easy example you can setup some pretty maintainance free pi extractors and some research alts just using your alt slots on your account. This can easily get you a plex a month with minimal actual 'work' involved if you take a bit to figure out the best stuff to make and sell. It will definitely get you a plex with a few level 4 missions under your belt so you can use the rest of your isk to play the game instead of 'working' towards your next subsciption fee.
Originally by: Response to bitter carebear tears in local [19:44:46] CCP Incognito > sorry i can't talk about game mechanics. you need to use your brains and figure it out.
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Moostang
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.02.02 23:40:00 -
[84]
I have had multiple accounts in damn near every mmo i have ever played. It's just more efficient and in Eve, it is a blast having 5 accounts and making my own mining op, or plex group, or w/e it is i want to do. It is NOT mandatory as you suggest, but it is better, just like in other games.
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Vabjekf
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.02.03 09:20:00 -
[85]
As i said before cost is not the real issue, the issue is that if you become a controller of many characters, you cant immerse yourself in the game world. People with multiple characters are then, obviously, soulless heartless monsters who have no empathy and can not relate to nor care about their characters at all! What terrible people!
'players' hopping from character to character as it suits them. How horrible. Your characters would be better off with out you!
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Quemist
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Posted - 2011.02.03 11:08:00 -
[86]
I agree 100% with the immersion breaking aspect of multiple accounts.
Responing to everyone else, it is required. You can't always get cyno's and you can't always be that person constantly asking for them. As if it's somehow an easy thing for someone else to move through 0.0 through possible unfriendly territory to light a cyno for you and wait there for 10m to be slaughtered. That's not even starting on all the other almost required uses for alts, ex. scouts and others which people touched on.
And to the people saying "you pay to play eve !?! lol" you'll learn the relative value of money and time when you grow up and possibly get a job.
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Dr Fighter
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Posted - 2011.02.03 11:17:00 -
[87]
Edited by: Dr Fighter on 03/02/2011 11:18:05 Edited by: Dr Fighter on 03/02/2011 11:17:33
Originally by: Quemist
No other game pretty much requires you to have multiple accounts. Ever fly a cap ship? A second account is mandatory for cyno's and eventually holders. If you don't have a second account forget about flying caps.
you really are of very low intelligence to not realise that flying a massive team based ship might require more than one person. If you want to do it all yourself, you would need two accounts yes, or a freind in the MMORPG you are logged into...
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Quemist
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Posted - 2011.02.03 11:20:00 -
[88]
Edited by: Quemist on 03/02/2011 11:23:00
Originally by: Dr Fighter Edited by: Dr Fighter on 03/02/2011 11:18:05 Edited by: Dr Fighter on 03/02/2011 11:17:33
Originally by: Quemist
No other game pretty much requires you to have multiple accounts. Ever fly a cap ship? A second account is mandatory for cyno's and eventually holders. If you don't have a second account forget about flying caps.
you really are of very low intelligence to not realise that flying a massive team based ship might require more than one person. If you want to do it all yourself, you would need two accounts yes, or a freind in the MMORPG you are logged into...
I think you're missing the subject of the thread read the title again. I know that flying a cap takes multiple accounts though.
edit *ponders the possible irony of you being a doctor*
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Tavin Aikisen
Caldari State Protectorate
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Posted - 2011.02.03 12:01:00 -
[89]
I don't need multiple accounts because I have multiple friends. Instead of paying the low price of $15, I just buy PLEX.
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ôRemember this. Trust your eyes, you will kill each other. Trust your veins, you can all go home in peace.ö
-Cold Wind |
Thenoran
Caldari Tranquility Industries
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Posted - 2011.02.03 12:10:00 -
[90]
If you can fund the second or third account with just ISK and you don't really need the ISK anywhere else, go for it. You could have one char being a total pirate with -10 and another scamming away in Jita. And it means you can form your own small gang for PvP if you so desire.
Still, it's a lot more fun with friends and like...social interaction. ------------------------ Low-sec is like sailing along the coast of Somalia...
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