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Freya Dawn
Gallente Industrial Light and Merchantile
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Posted - 2011.02.03 02:14:00 -
[1]
I have been gone away from the game since '09 and have a question about drone accuracy versus smaller targets. Normally, one would use light drones against frigate hulls and medium drones against larger targets. The accepted logic had been:
Gallente drones deal the most dps. Minmatar drones are the fastest.
Warriors you use on anything that goes faster than 4k/s Hobgobs you use on anything that goes faster than 2.5k/s Valks you use on anything that goes faster than 1.5k/s Hammerheads you use on anything that's under 1k/s
It's my understanding that this is primarily due to the speed of the target and not necessarily the ability of larger drones to hit smaller signature sizes. Is this correct?
What if Hammerheads were to be used by an attacker who has already webbed/scrammed and capped out his frigate-sized opponent with neuts? That target will be tackled and only moving at a snails pace. Is it possible for the attacker then to forgo the use of the light drones and employ the more damaging medium ones? -- Freya Dawn --
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Cyhawk
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Posted - 2011.02.03 03:12:00 -
[2]
Short answer: Yes, they can.
Once you've webbed someone, your drones will make short work of them. While its best to use the correct size, mediums will damage most frigs easily. (May not be doing max damage, but they can do it)
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Thorian Baalnorn
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Posted - 2011.02.03 07:48:00 -
[3]
I run Hammerheads and warriors by default. Sometimes if i have room i will run valk and hobo.
Hammerheads work fine for me in pve against frigs. I have never tried used hammerheads against frigs in pvp TBH. I almost always use warriors in pvp and keep hammerheads for a back up unless i am flying a curse/pilgrim then i use either or depending on target.
You should not have any problem popping a tackled frig with hammerheads. Against a webbed frig, the higher dam output should offset the medium gun vs small target problem.
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Wacktopia
Dark Side Of The Womb
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Posted - 2011.02.03 11:09:00 -
[4]
Web/scram they should hit easily. Especially if you can get a TP on the target.
If they're AB-orbiting you it may be worth cracking out the lights.
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Freya Dawn
Gallente Industrial Light and Merchantile
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Posted - 2011.02.03 14:42:00 -
[5]
Thanks for the replies, fellas! I appreciate it.
I'm looking at this for the Pilgrim, which I have set up to decloak, scram, double web and cap out targets. I figure by the time you factor in no MWD and any AB having it's speed reduced by 60% twice I should have no problem not only keeping them pinned down to cap out - but also to deploy H2s as opposed to hobbies.
With the Pilgrim in low sec, it isn't whether you can kill them, it's how fast before friends get there.
-- Freya Dawn --
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Shadowy Assistant
Darkrime Industries
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Posted - 2011.02.03 15:55:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Freya Dawn With the Pilgrim in low sec, it isn't whether you can kill them, it's how fast before friends get there.
You are doomed to fail. With maxed skills, the Pilgrim struggles to hit anything higher than ~240 DPS.
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Deimona
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Posted - 2011.02.03 16:19:00 -
[7]
Hammerhead II's can out run their own tracking if the target is slow enough and small enough. At least I've noticed in some missions a flight of hammerheads couldn't kill a webbed frigate but if you turn the web off they can.
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Sturmwolke
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Posted - 2011.02.03 16:36:00 -
[8]
Remember, combat drones follow the same rules (as players) when it comes to tracking.
Since drones are stuck at a constant orbit speed (which is 480 m/s for Hammerheads), the transversal is VERY BIG when its target is at zero speed. The ideal sweet spot for best hits & damage is 480 m/s - this is where Hammerheads is at its most effective when used against frigates. In PVP, knowing this drone mechanics can be advantageous in certain situations.
The recent change to make drone hit logs visible makes it a no brainer to confirm the above. |
Tusen Takk
Guy Fawkes Trust Fund 31ST Reliables Division
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Posted - 2011.02.03 16:42:00 -
[9]
my med drones eat through frigs faster than my light drones, without webbing them
yet people always ***** at me for not having a flight of lights in there lol
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Freya Dawn
Gallente Industrial Light and Merchantile
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Posted - 2011.02.03 18:45:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Shadowy Assistant
Originally by: Freya Dawn With the Pilgrim in low sec, it isn't whether you can kill them, it's how fast before friends get there.
You are doomed to fail. With maxed skills, the Pilgrim struggles to hit anything higher than ~240 DPS.
I agree that attacking anything larger than an AF is a bad idea in a busy pipeline. I'm thinking I need about 90 seconds to 2 minutes to kill most cruiser hulls with that DPS, even allowing for the cap warfare. That leads me to more out of the way routes with fewer targets.
Originally by: Deimona Hammerhead II's can out run their own tracking if the target is slow enough and small enough. At least I've noticed in some missions a flight of hammerheads couldn't kill a webbed frigate but if you turn the web off they can.
Hmm, that's a worrisome point I hadn't considered. You've noticed this in PvE; I wonder if it's true for PvP, as well. I had counted on the scram/double web as integral to insuring they go down fast and have no prayer of escaping. I'm wondering now if that strategy works against me if it means my H2s won't hit for full damage when under other circumstances they would.
Originally by: Sturmwolke Remember, combat drones follow the same rules (as players) when it comes to tracking.
Since drones are stuck at a constant orbit speed (which is 480 m/s for Hammerheads), the transversal is VERY BIG when its target is at zero speed. The ideal sweet spot for best hits & damage is 480 m/s - this is where Hammerheads is at its most effective when used against frigates. In PVP, knowing this drone mechanics can be advantageous in certain situations.
The recent change to make drone hit logs visible makes it a no brainer to confirm the above.
For the sake of argument, let's say most targets without prop mods and double webbed are doing 60-80 m/s and H2s are orbiting at 480 with a tracking of 0.9. How much ought they miss (veteran gunnery peeps chime in here)?
Conversely, Hobbies orbit at 660 with 2.178 tracking. Nearly 40% faster, of course, but I take it the improved tracking make up for the fact they are flying even faster than the target?
Originally by: Tusen Takk my med drones eat through frigs faster than my light drones, without webbing them
yet people always ***** at me for not having a flight of lights in there lol
I'd like to be able to do this, myself. But I was counting on both scram and a double web to lock frigate hulls down. -- Freya Dawn --
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Sturmwolke
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Posted - 2011.02.04 00:36:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Freya Dawn
For the sake of argument, let's say most targets without prop mods and double webbed are doing 60-80 m/s and H2s are orbiting at 480 with a tracking of 0.9. How much ought they miss (veteran gunnery peeps chime in here)?
Conversely, Hobbies orbit at 660 with 2.178 tracking. Nearly 40% faster, of course, but I take it the improved tracking make up for the fact they are flying even faster than the target?
Frigate sig = 40m Frigate speed = 80 m/s
Chance to hit : T2 Hobgoblins = 98% (approx -1% avg dmg/148dps) T2 Hammerheads = 28% (approx -80% avg dmg/48dps) T2 Ogres = 8% (approx -93% avg dmg/33dps)
To effectively use T2 Hammerheads for hitting frigates (i.e be at par or do slightly more avg damage than lights) you need to : - keep its transversal below 100-200 m/s, which loosely translates to target speed in the region of 280-480 m/s. - fit dual painters / ODL, former is better than latter.
The numbers for the Ogres are interesting, though I cba to workout to see if there's a feasible range where it'll dispense short death to frigates. Mainly applicable to Gallante boats however.
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Zilberfrid
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Posted - 2011.02.04 06:09:00 -
[12]
Retract your drones after each salvo, that way they don't outrun their own tracking ------------------------------------- I like to fly around and shoot stuff.
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