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Sig Sour
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Posted - 2011.02.04 20:03:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Sig Sour on 04/02/2011 20:04:09 ... to join the NC.
CCP handed the NC the game with the moon goo changes and the layout of the moons in the north. There seems to be nobody capable of stopping the few NC sheep herders from turning all of null sec blue. There also seems to be no shortage of sheep willing to join the herd.
So can the NC achieve total victory over eve? What do you think will happen when they do?
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Ben Alman
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.02.04 20:06:00 -
[2]
Originally by: Sig Sour
So can the NC achieve total victory over eve? What do you think will happen when they do?
I'll fall apart slowly but steadily such is the fate of empires.
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Liang Nuren
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Posted - 2011.02.04 20:11:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Ben Alman
Originally by: Sig Sour
So can the NC achieve total victory over eve? What do you think will happen when they do?
I'll fall apart slowly but steadily such is the fate of empires.
I think its really hard for the NC to decay as an empire does, because breaking ranks with the other alliances will mean that ALL the other alliances immediately band together and destroy you.
-Liang -- Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire On Twitter
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Sig Sour
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Posted - 2011.02.04 20:13:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Ben Alman I'll fall apart slowly but steadily such is the fate of empires.
Like China?
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Liang Nuren
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Posted - 2011.02.04 20:22:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Ben Alman
Originally by: Sig Sour
So can the NC achieve total victory over eve? What do you think will happen when they do?
I'll fall apart slowly but steadily such is the fate of empires.
Thinking more about this, it occurs to me that empire decay tends to be measured on the century scale. If we were to call this the decay over generations (ebb and flow of new players) and disregard the effects of effectively immortal leaders, then we might be able to say that we're in for 3-4 years of the NC owning all of 0.0? -Liang -- Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire On Twitter
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I Love Boobies
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Posted - 2011.02.04 20:23:00 -
[6]
OMG! Wrong forum to post this in! Should be in CAOD!!! FORUM NOOB!
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Suldra
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Posted - 2011.02.04 20:24:00 -
[7]
Sounds to me like someone feels left out. Someone does not like to play with others so that somone has to put others down to make themselves feel better.
Here I have cookies and milk for you honey!
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Liang Nuren
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Posted - 2011.02.04 20:25:00 -
[8]
Originally by: I Love Boobies OMG! Wrong forum to post this in! Should be in CAOD!!! FORUM NOOB!
I would argue two things: - This is actually a serious matter that merits general discussion in Eve - Take a look at the posters in this thread so far - none of us are allowed to post in CAOD.
-Liang -- Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire On Twitter
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I Love Boobies
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Posted - 2011.02.04 20:28:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
I would argue two things: - This is actually a serious matter that merits general discussion in Eve - Take a look at the posters in this thread so far - none of us are allowed to post in CAOD.
-Liang
Lol... true. You have valid points. I just got over excited and couldn't help myself.
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Ray McCormack
Nordar Innovations.
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Posted - 2011.02.04 20:30:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Bitter FA Vet on 04/02/2006 20:04:09 ... to join BOB.
CCP handed BOB the game with the moon goo changes and the layout of the stations in Querious. There seems to be nobody capable of stopping the few BOB sheep herders from turning all of null sec red. There also seems to be no shortage of sheep willing to join the herd.
So can BOB achieve total victory over eve? What do you think will happen when they do[n't]?
Not in the Exchange, don't invest! |
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Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
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Posted - 2011.02.04 20:31:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: Ben Alman
Originally by: Sig Sour
So can the NC achieve total victory over eve? What do you think will happen when they do?
I'll fall apart slowly but steadily such is the fate of empires.
I think its really hard for the NC to decay as an empire does, because breaking ranks with the other alliances will mean that ALL the other alliances immediately band together and destroy you.
-Liang
It isn't enough to prevent the decay just delay the point when the damn bursts. If you are the only powerblock left, you simply can't provide enough fights to satisfy your PvPers and they will start to get bored. They will become increasingly dissatisfied and want to see things change just so they can have fun fights again.
When you have a situation that has been at that point for a while, it isn't hard to imagine a situation where a few PvP corps and alliances talk things over and decide to leave the main block as a group. If I was a PvP grunt on either side in that situation, I would propably leave with the PvPers, since they're the people you can actually count on when the trouble starts and if they get beaten, the situation will only return to a place where you were dissatisfied and bored to begin with. And then you will have a few power blocks fighting for supremacy again.
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Mecinia Lua
Galactic Express The Spire Collective
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Posted - 2011.02.04 20:38:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Mecinia Lua on 04/02/2011 20:38:19 Nope changed mind
Thoughts expressed are mine and mine alone. They do not necessarily reflect my alliances thoughts.
[orange]Your signature is to |
Professor Tarantula
Hedion University
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Posted - 2011.02.04 20:40:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Professor Tarantula on 04/02/2011 20:43:17 In what military experts are calling a startling turn of events, i now fully support the NC.
I don't think the moons are the reason for its success. It's a simple matter of making allies instead of enemies, and choosing your battles.
Sincerely, Prof. Tarantula, Esq. |
Liang Nuren
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Posted - 2011.02.04 20:40:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Destination SkillQueue
It isn't enough to prevent the decay just delay the point when the damn bursts. If you are the only powerblock left, you simply can't provide enough fights to satisfy your PvPers and they will start to get bored. They will become increasingly dissatisfied and want to see things change just so they can have fun fights again.
When you have a situation that has been at that point for a while, it isn't hard to imagine a situation where a few PvP corps and alliances talk things over and decide to leave the main block as a group. If I was a PvP grunt on either side in that situation, I would propably leave with the PvPers, since they're the people you can actually count on when the trouble starts and if they get beaten, the situation will only return to a place where you were dissatisfied and bored to begin with. And then you will have a few power blocks fighting for supremacy again.
I disagree. Consider that supremacy in Eve doesn't require PVP skill - it requires PVP numbers. Consider: - The NC has never been known for its PVP prowess or number of raring to go PVP pros. Most of the time its only a slight step up from the Providence of old. - We have already seen the situation you outline - repeatedly. The "bored PVPers" quickly get beaten off by the thousands of "PVP noobs" from 50+ jumps away to get their ass handed to them and expelled to NPC 0.0 and low sec.
Really, you might have had an argument if it wasn't a situation we'd already seen so many times over.
-Liang -- Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire On Twitter
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Zeba
Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company
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Posted - 2011.02.04 20:46:00 -
[15]
The bored pvpers should learn the fine art of getting in touch with other bored pvpers and when they have enough bodies they can act. This solo rage quit stuff just marks you for the hammer.
Originally by: Blane Xero Zeba a fanboi, Haha, Christ, Pull the other one will you.
Originally by: Ryhss There is no paranoia in Eve, everyone is out to get you....
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Liang Nuren
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Posted - 2011.02.04 20:50:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Zeba The bored pvpers should learn the fine art of getting in touch with other bored pvpers and when they have enough bodies they can act. This solo rage quit stuff just marks you for the hammer.
Hey cool, so the BORED PVPers should wait a few months/years until they have enough people to form a rebellion... AWESOME PLAN
-Liang -- Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire On Twitter
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El'Niaga
Minmatar Republic Military School
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Posted - 2011.02.04 20:54:00 -
[17]
The North needs to be careful to not grow to big. Especially with some changes CCP has come out for that I'm not necessarily for like removing jump bridges, it would be hard for the North to maintain a large area. As IT fell I'd retract. Leave a couple regions empty and see what happens.
Most likely though the North will eventually fall in a similar manner to BoB and Goonswarm unfortunately. At some point someone gets mad and will create enough damage that they find it hard to recover perhaps even to the point of disbanding one or two of the major members. I hate to say it but that probably given the history of the game is far more likely to be their downfall.
Will they recover, probably but it'll cause friction that eventually will split the North just like it did the others.
The other thing that could undo them would be some sort of game change that breaks it apart. Most likely this would be a massive change and well beyond even what the CSM meeting in Dec put forth as bad ideas.
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2011.02.04 20:57:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Chainsaw Plankton on 04/02/2011 20:58:31 when ccp adds content that means a 20man raiding (raid, as in the mother ****ing vikings, not the wow thing) party can go into sovereign space and **** them off, I think the nc shall have some fun then. add in the kicking jump bridges in the nuts bit, and well **** yea \o/
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Sig Sour
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Posted - 2011.02.04 21:00:00 -
[19]
Just out of curiosity, how many of the legendary pvp pilots does the NC have in its ranks? I see a lot of talk here like the NC is has a lot of hardcore pvp players, but to the best of my understanding the NC is mostly about blobbing.
Now for those of you who don't understand, the difference between a fleet and a blob is each and every individual in a fleet can survive on their own and doesn't fear solo or small gang pvp. Blobbing is typically a bunch of 'carebears' who feel comfortable fighting 40 vs 4, and wont play otherwise. Blobbers for the most part, I believe can live without pvp.
Only time will tell if the NC has enough true PVP pilots to where the self destructive nature of it will unfold.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.02.04 21:07:00 -
[20]
If it happens, it happens, and then CCP will have to hire themselves a sociologist to study this phenomenon just like they hired an economist. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
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Ben Alman
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.02.04 21:07:00 -
[21]
I missed a t in my post making the sentence awkward for people actually reading the letters I am going to edit it but for all of you who have already been scarred for live here is compensation: t
Btw: Thanks for not being a grammar NSDAPmember (most of you probably only recognize it now bu who cares ;) )
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Zeba
Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company
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Posted - 2011.02.04 21:12:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: Zeba The bored pvpers should learn the fine art of getting in touch with other bored pvpers and when they have enough bodies they can act. This solo rage quit stuff just marks you for the hammer.
Hey cool, so the BORED PVPers should wait a few months/years until they have enough people to form a rebellion... AWESOME PLAN
-Liang
Well if they are impatient I guess they could hare off on their own. But of course that would just mean getting kicked back to empire as they didn't take the time and effort to find support first. Besides what is there in nullsec that doesn't take months or years to accomplish if it involves multiple corps and alliances? Also who said it would actually take months or years? I would imagine if there really are enough bored pvpers who don't like the nap train they should be able to fairly quickly organise and do somthing about it sooner rather than later. Unless they are both bored and lazy too.
Originally by: Blane Xero Zeba a fanboi, Haha, Christ, Pull the other one will you.
Originally by: Ryhss There is no paranoia in Eve, everyone is out to get you....
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Obsidian Hawk
RONA Legion RONA Directorate
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Posted - 2011.02.04 21:15:00 -
[23]
OMG ZEBA IS BACK!!! THE IQ OF THE FORUMS JUST WENT UP!!!
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Liang Nuren
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Posted - 2011.02.04 21:17:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Zeba
Well if they are impatient I guess they could hare off on their own. But of course that would just mean getting kicked back to empire as they didn't take the time and effort to find support first. Besides what is there in nullsec that doesn't take months or years to accomplish if it involves multiple corps and alliances? Also who said it would actually take months or years? I would imagine if there really are enough bored pvpers who don't like the nap train they should be able to fairly quickly organise and do somthing about it sooner rather than later. Unless they are both bored and lazy too.
Do you really expect someone to be able to weld all the bored PVPers together and make a reasonable attempt at living on their own? I think the best case scenario would be something like the agreement Tri Mk 1 had with the NC.
-Liang -- Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire On Twitter
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Apollo Gabriel
Brotherhood Of Fallen Angels Etherium Cartel
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Posted - 2011.02.04 21:26:00 -
[25]
ok so I missed the bus, what is going on? Best regards, Apollo Gabriel
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Zeba
Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company
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Posted - 2011.02.04 21:29:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: Zeba
Well if they are impatient I guess they could hare off on their own. But of course that would just mean getting kicked back to empire as they didn't take the time and effort to find support first. Besides what is there in nullsec that doesn't take months or years to accomplish if it involves multiple corps and alliances? Also who said it would actually take months or years? I would imagine if there really are enough bored pvpers who don't like the nap train they should be able to fairly quickly organise and do somthing about it sooner rather than later. Unless they are both bored and lazy too.
Do you really expect someone to be able to weld all the bored PVPers together and make a reasonable attempt at living on their own? I think the best case scenario would be something like the agreement Tri Mk 1 had with the NC.
-Liang
Possibly. I didn't say it would be easy or even likely given the herdlike nature of your average nullsec entitys members but if they want to break the current nap train then that really is all there is to be done. Either get your capitalism on and keep farming isk for no reason but to farm isk(this works for alliance leaders because they have alts for everything to transfer those personal trillions to due to plex funding of subs. The rank and file not so much) or you take a stand and bring down the greedy kings and their inner councils.
It's called revolution. So do the bored pvpers have a taste for that or will they continue to be pawns in a game of bloat the wallet?
Originally by: Obsidian Hawk OMG ZEBA IS BACK!!! THE IQ OF THE FORUMS JUST WENT UP!!!
\o
Originally by: Blane Xero Zeba a fanboi, Haha, Christ, Pull the other one will you.
Originally by: Ryhss There is no paranoia in Eve, everyone is out to get you....
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Liang Nuren
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Posted - 2011.02.04 21:32:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Zeba
It's called revolution. So do the bored pvpers have a taste for that or will they continue to be pawns in a game of bloat the wallet?
Historically, I'd say that they don't have the coordination even if they do have the will.
-Liang -- Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire On Twitter
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Zeba
Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company
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Posted - 2011.02.04 21:39:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: Zeba
It's called revolution. So do the bored pvpers have a taste for that or will they continue to be pawns in a game of bloat the wallet?
Historically, I'd say that they don't have the coordination even if they do have the will.
-Liang
Sadly I have to agree with you. But the way is clear if they ever happen to summon that will.
Originally by: Blane Xero Zeba a fanboi, Haha, Christ, Pull the other one will you.
Originally by: Ryhss There is no paranoia in Eve, everyone is out to get you....
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yani dumyat
Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2011.02.04 22:24:00 -
[29]
Edited by: yani dumyat on 04/02/2011 22:27:41
By the nature of eve this situation is going to arise repeatedly until somebody works out the right levers to pull, someday we'll get a coalition leader who's read enough Aldous Huxley to know how to pacify a population.
Got too many bored pvpers on your hands? Simple, create smaller alliances with alts and make them fight each other, give the people what they want and you can do what you like. It's the meta game baby.
You can think of it in terms of how the illuminati or Bilderberg group like to be seen, every alliance leader is part of a clique and wars are planned out in advance to ensure the dogs of war get a good walk and a piddle while the leaders blow the whistle.
If I had to speculate then I would say that the NC won't own 0.0 unless there's a solid RMT backbone. People making their living are a lot more organized than casual players and any Bilderberg type arrangement tends to arise in an effort to control resources. My only worry is how close we are to this point.
This isn't conjecture, it's history.
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Knawt Ongrid
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Posted - 2011.02.04 22:35:00 -
[30]
OMG the sky is falling . . . Look, if anyone thinks that 0.0 is and will remain one happy love fest you are delusional. There are still 3 powerblocks, not just one - Drone Russians, NC+Goons, Casserol(aka Asswagon). Although ideally there would be more division and factions in 0.0, this is still hardly one NC dominion. Casserol blued goons for the purpose of attacking IT block. But they hardly love each other, and have new borders to define between them. Similarly the NC and drone russians are hardly in love. Drone Russians and Casserol have new borders to define/solidify and competing business interest if you will. And there is still the minor players in provi that really aren't aligned with any of these 3.
We will probably see a continued static territorial situation, with minor probing in the border regions - Geminate, Immensea/detorid/catch/tenerifis/feythabolis (the border between the Stain block and the Drone block is looking very unstable imo), and now querious/delve still to be divided tween NC and Stain block. Border skirmishing can always escalate if any of these blocks pull out the supercap blob and could have dire consequences if miscalculated.
It is of course sad though with the coalition mentality and the resulting blobs each can muster (whether subcap or supercap). Realistically 0.0 has always been that way, it's just now it is more apparent. Even with wormholes and all the empty systems in 0.0, space is seeming crowded because of the ease of projecting that supercap power. What might open it up again would be a heavy nerf to cap jump range, titan bridge range, the elimination of jump bridges, and making jumps/bridging more costly. Hard to control vast regions of space if the power projection is rather immobile.
Also, there has to be some diminishing returns on subcap blobbage. Just an idea, paying tolls at system gates, that increase as the system fills for everyone in the system whether they go there by bridge or gate, might be one workable mechanism. The gates are afterall run by concord, your ISK is sitting in some NPC bank account, and someone is expending resources to operate the gates. This would be another isk sink CCP keeps talking about needing. Also, think of what this could mean for Jita, as well as 0.0 NC type subcap blobbage. It could spread out the markets, and be structured to hit pocketbooks hard enough to be figured into tactical calculus in sov warfare.
Hopefully CCP will do something in response to the present 0.0 situation. Of course it couldn't hurt if they could introduce more NPC 0.0 space. Either by pirate factions claiming presently conquerable space or by new star systems filling in the empty spaces currently on the map (at the very least what is Jove space doing on the map like Drone space used to be). Let's face it, npc pirate factions have some amazing recruiters that somehow overcome the terrible combat efficiency they have. Maybe they can claim some more space for all that effort.
Anyway, yeah, it's sad that once again we are down to 3 coalitions controlling 0.0. But it is not one governing body, and hardly the end of eve. Too many oversized egos involved, and CCP could still do a lot to kick over the present sand castles in order to keep the game alive. |
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