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Harlot Hohannson
Eye on Wang Poo
34
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Posted - 2012.08.21 10:25:00 -
[1] - Quote
It would seem overpowered to be able to interfere with the LOCK RANGE or 4+ ships in a single ship right?
Well how about the damn Falcon being able to almost completely remove 4+ ships from a fight whatsoever (notwithstanding smartbombs or drones that already have a target).
I am still amazed that this bullshit is allowed to go on.
ECM is so ubiquitous it's a joke. CCP really should do something about this pathetic 'chance based' (lol) mechanic.
In before all the cowards that can't handle risk come in defending overpowered mechanics. "I can't risk having someone actually fighting while I PVP". |
Noisrevbus
204
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Posted - 2012.08.21 10:29:00 -
[2] - Quote
You do realize, assuming you can control range in regard to your opponents (ie., they are not much faster than you, and superior in a short-range encounter), that an Arazu can lock down 4 ships while also maintaining a point with superior damage and a reasonable tank, yes? Not only that, given a favourable setting like that, it will do it all of the time, not just having a chance to... |
Harlot Hohannson
Eye on Wang Poo
34
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Posted - 2012.08.21 10:38:00 -
[3] - Quote
I dont think 'lock down' means the same as 'can put a damp on them'.
Also, well done for implying ecm is chance based. It is nigh on guaranteed to jam every time. They really should change ECM from 'chance' based to falloff based. Then we will see ECM ships having to come in a bit closer to be effective.
Nice that you provide a very circumstance based defence though. ECM works every time regardless of conditions. |
TraderJade
Secure Production Research and Trading
0
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Posted - 2012.08.21 10:59:00 -
[4] - Quote
I feel your pain!
if only eve had modules to counter such ships, like a module which increases your sensor strength or boost your locking range. They could be called sensor booster and maybe ECCM... but i doubt ccp would ever introduce them into the game :( |
Ptraci
3 R Corporation The Irukandji
587
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Posted - 2012.08.21 11:04:00 -
[5] - Quote
That's why you would call the Arazu primary and kill it. Just like you do with the 6-9k ehp falcon. Only takes about 10 secs to pop - less than an ECM cycle. Geez let the whine threads continue. l2 pvp |
Harlot Hohannson
Eye on Wang Poo
34
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Posted - 2012.08.21 11:05:00 -
[6] - Quote
Nice one dum dum,
Your argument is "All ships should fit specific modules to counter a single form of E-war."
Why do we never hear of counter measures being a requisite against other e-war? Because it isnt an overpowered piece of crapass mechanic like ECM is.
Also ECCM doesn't actually work very well and there are a very limited number of ships that have the slot layout required to even allow it alongside a viable fitting. |
Pestily
Disconnected. Choke Point
1
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Posted - 2012.08.21 11:08:00 -
[7] - Quote
ECM is broken. The only people who defend it are the people who abuse it sadly.
Saying damps are as good as ECM is ********. |
feihcsiM
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
26
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Posted - 2012.08.21 11:16:00 -
[8] - Quote
ECM has its place, especially for countering gangs that spam logi ships who would be otherwise unkillable unless you have several multiples of their numbers.
I will agree, however, that the mechanic is currently broken in certain situations, especially in very small gang warfare. I'm not sure what could be done to fix it that wouldn't nerf it into the ground. ECM strength stacking penalties once you fit more than 2 ECM modules perhaps? It's the end of the world as we know it and I feel fine. |
Eugene Kerner
TunDraGon
85
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Posted - 2012.08.21 11:18:00 -
[9] - Quote
ECM is good for certain situations as is Dampening...and both can be quite worthless altogether if an opponent actually gathers intel and brings the appropriate counter to it.
That said...if you cannot beat it why fight it? In my opinion pvp is not about fairness, it is about winning.
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TraderJade
Secure Production Research and Trading
2
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Posted - 2012.08.21 11:20:00 -
[10] - Quote
ECM isn't broken... there are plenty of counters, if you don't want to use em then that's not the dev's problem!
All the cheese in the world would never be enough for the ECM whiners |
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Eugene Kerner
TunDraGon
85
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Posted - 2012.08.21 11:23:00 -
[11] - Quote
TraderJade wrote:ECM isn't broken... there are plenty of counters, if you don't want to use em then that's not the dev's problem!
All the cheese in the world would never be enough for the ECM whiners
Quoted for truth. |
Rordan D'Kherr
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
56
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Posted - 2012.08.21 11:27:00 -
[12] - Quote
Because of Falcon!!!
(aka next and exciting topic sind 2008)
+1 for bait title |
War Kitten
Panda McLegion
1080
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Posted - 2012.08.21 11:28:00 -
[13] - Quote
Harlot Hohannson wrote: They really should change ECM from 'chance' based to falloff based. I do believe it is both already. I haven't done any lengthy experimentation to verify that falloff decreases effectiveness, but then again, I doubt you have either.
Quote: Then we will see ECM ships having to come in a bit closer to be effective. Or you could have someone in your fleet with long range weapons... or maybe drones.... you know... just in case something is a long way off and you want to kill it. ECCM isn't the only way around ECM. Hell, even your Arazu example might be able to do something to a falcon. Hmmm....
Quote:Nice that you provide a very circumstance based defence though. ECM works every time regardless of conditions. No, not really. Unless you're flying frigates or T1 cruisers, then yeah, it probably works every time.
I find that without a good mob to provide one for them, most people would have no mentality at all. |
Randomize All
State War Academy Caldari State
24
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Posted - 2012.08.21 11:28:00 -
[14] - Quote
Most game developers think "Now you are not allowed to play" is a ridiculous game mechanic. Even the very awful League Of Legends knew this, thus 3 second lockouts are restricted to a very small number of "ships". CCP are just plain ignorant. It's not like there aren't at least a dozen better ideas for ECM, in fact it's actually hard to think of something worse than "You cannot play". |
Roime
Shiva Furnace Dead On Arrival Alliance
1079
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Posted - 2012.08.21 11:48:00 -
[15] - Quote
Noisrevbus wrote:You do realize, assuming you can control range in regard to your opponents (ie., they are not much faster than you, and superior in a short-range encounter), that an Arazu can lock down 4 ships while also maintaining a point with superior damage and a reasonable tank, yes? Not only that, given a favourable setting like that, it will do it all of the time, not just having a chance to...
As a newcomer to the Arazu, could I ask for that fit? My pyfa efforts to come up with a 4-damp setup suffer from poor cap life.
Gallente - the choice of the interstellar gentleman |
Pestily
Disconnected. Choke Point
1
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Posted - 2012.08.21 11:52:00 -
[16] - Quote
Take a Megathron, add an ECCM = 41.2 sensor strength
A falcon has a 35.6% chance to jam the megathron for each racial jammer it has fitted.
The Megathron has had to give up 25% of its mids to fit that ECCM.
A falcon can fit 6 jammers no problem.
Also bear in mind not all falcons are used in small gang pvp but also used in the 10v1 scenarios so the single guy has no chance to fight back.
All the other counters to ewar have additional benefits, sensor boosters, cap injectors, tracking computers.
ECCM has no additional benefit and isn't as effective as other counters to other types of ewar. |
Alpheias
Euphoria Released Verge of Collapse
763
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Posted - 2012.08.21 12:23:00 -
[17] - Quote
ECM whine, how quaint...
The logic of a popular counter equals broken mechanic is embarrassingly and stunningly stupid. I'd kill kittens and puppies and bunnies I'd maim toddlers and teens and then more |
Cannibal Kane
Praetorian Cannibals
506
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Posted - 2012.08.21 12:29:00 -
[18] - Quote
As irritating as ECM can be. It is a fact of EVE. Come prepared or loose your ship... dust off refit and continue.
Even I have lost ships to the evil ecm. Some fight I have won even with ECM... they are killed quickly.
I would like the chance based effort of ECM to be dropped though. And maybe changed to something where if the ecm dudes cycle is lower than your Sensor Strength... there is no chance of being jammed. I'm not a Pirate, I'm a Terrorist.
The Crazy Space Poor South African.
*Hair done by LGÇÖOr+¬al, because I'm worth it. |
Eugene Kerner
TunDraGon
86
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Posted - 2012.08.21 12:49:00 -
[19] - Quote
Cannibal Kane wrote:As irritating as ECM can be. It is a fact of EVE. Come prepared or loose your ship... dust off refit and continue.
Even I have lost ships to the evil ecm. Some fight I have won even with ECM... they are killed quickly.
I would like the chance based effort of ECM to be dropped though. And maybe changed to something where if the ecm dudes cycle is lower than your Sensor Strength... there is no chance of being jammed.
Yeah it should be something like that.... If the "jamming field strength" of the jammer is higher than the "sensor field strength" of the target it should get jammed. |
Suddenly Forums ForumKings
Republic University Minmatar Republic
254
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Posted - 2012.08.21 13:11:00 -
[20] - Quote
Actually, CCP has said that pretty soon sensor damps will be on par with ECM.
So soon an Arazu will be able to |
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Ptraci
3 R Corporation The Irukandji
588
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Posted - 2012.08.21 13:18:00 -
[21] - Quote
Randomize All wrote:Most game developers think "Now you are not allowed to play" is a ridiculous game mechanic..
Of course you can play. When you are jammed, you are playing - if you are being jammed it means someone else is NOT being jammed. So take one for the team, it's only 20 seconds jeez. In the meantime you could be, I dunno, burning towards the falcon so the minute the lock breaks you are on top of him and he's in range, perhaps?
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Ptraci
3 R Corporation The Irukandji
588
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Posted - 2012.08.21 13:19:00 -
[22] - Quote
Pestily wrote:
A falcon can fit 6 jammers no problem.
A falcon with 6 jammers has no tank and can be instapopped almost just by looking at it. |
Lyrrashae
Crushed Ambitions Reckless Ambition
346
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Posted - 2012.08.21 13:24:00 -
[23] - Quote
<---Main that flies Falcons, among other Recons.
Soooo....what did you lose OP, and can I has the rest of your stuffs?
E:
BECAUSE OF FALCON, DAMMIT!!! There is a fine and proper artistry to wielding verbal scalpels, such that the crap-poster you've slashed doesn't even know they've been cut. But verbal bludgeons -- Those are just fun. |
Colonel Xaven
Decadence. RAZOR Alliance
123
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Posted - 2012.08.21 13:26:00 -
[24] - Quote
I am surprised how long it lasted until someone cried about Falcons and ECM at all. |
Sakura Kasenumi
Last Exit For The Lost Dark Therapy
0
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Posted - 2012.08.21 13:30:00 -
[25] - Quote
ECM is a force multiplyer much teh same as logistics. Take away theese abilities and Eve is reduced EVEN MORE to a numbers game.
A small gang with ECM can fight a lrager force. A small gang with ECM and logistics can fight an even larger force. Send a small gang with neither against a larger force and it dies almost every time unless using such tactics as kiting.
A kiting force will destroy a larger force that can not hit it. Is that overpowered? If the defending force has ecm they can force teh kiting force to leave the field or render tehm inefective, is that overpowered?
In massive fleet fights, both sides often have ECM, taking people out of the combat, is that overpowered?
ECM seems overpowered in specific circumstances, if the enemy force has ECM adn a larger number, you will be overwhelmed fast, is that overpowered? They would probably have killed your force anyway. If teh smaller force had the ECM teh battlfield is levelled. Is that overpowered?
Think about what you are saying and look at it form other angles. If you are just but hurt because someone beat you down using ECM, that isnt a reason for it to be changed, it may be a reason for you to look at your own fleet compositions though. |
Abel Merkabah
The Executioners Capital Punishment.
104
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Posted - 2012.08.21 13:31:00 -
[26] - Quote
Then you bring 5 ships??? "The human body can be drained of blood in 8.6 seconds, given adequate vacuuming systems." |
Harlot Hohannson
Eye on Wang Poo
38
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Posted - 2012.08.21 13:32:00 -
[27] - Quote
Ptraci wrote:Randomize All wrote:Most game developers think "Now you are not allowed to play" is a ridiculous game mechanic.. Of course you can play. When you are jammed, you are playing - if you are being jammed it means someone else is NOT being jammed. So take one for the team, it's only 20 seconds jeez. In the meantime you could be, I dunno, burning towards the falcon so the minute the lock breaks you are on top of him and he's in range, perhaps? More stupid justifications for a broken mechanic.
Yeah right, I'll just disable the scrams and webs that are on me so I can come on over to be insta jammed by your next cycle. It should be easy since I can't lock anything to retaliate. Also not everyone flies in a gang.
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Suddenly Forums ForumKings
Republic University Minmatar Republic
254
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Posted - 2012.08.21 13:34:00 -
[28] - Quote
Harlot Hohannson wrote:Ptraci wrote:Randomize All wrote:Most game developers think "Now you are not allowed to play" is a ridiculous game mechanic.. Of course you can play. When you are jammed, you are playing - if you are being jammed it means someone else is NOT being jammed. So take one for the team, it's only 20 seconds jeez. In the meantime you could be, I dunno, burning towards the falcon so the minute the lock breaks you are on top of him and he's in range, perhaps? More stupid justifications for a broken mechanic. Yeah right, I'll just disable the scrams and webs that are on me so I can come on over to be insta jammed by your next cycle. It should be easy since I can't lock anything to retaliate. Also not everyone flies in a gang.
Confirming fleet warfare is balanced around solo pvp |
lanyaie
492
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Posted - 2012.08.21 13:37:00 -
[29] - Quote
You don't want to fit eccm?
I understand, You ofc want a uber tank A prop module Damage modules Webs Points Tracking enchancers
Why use ECCM when you can get it "fixed" by CCP?
I dont post often, but when I do i'm probably trolling you Currently offering 100% legit hulkageddon security sponsored by the mittani, send 50m to me and 50m to him |
Joe Hinken
Cetan Consortium
26
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Posted - 2012.08.21 13:39:00 -
[30] - Quote
Pestily wrote:Take a Megathron, add an ECCM = 41.2 sensor strength
A falcon has a 35.6% chance to jam the megathron for each racial jammer it has fitted.
The Megathron has had to give up 25% of its mids to fit that ECCM.
A falcon can fit 6 jammers no problem.
Also bear in mind not all falcons are used in small gang pvp but also used in the 10v1 scenarios so the single guy has no chance to fight back.
All the other counters to ewar have additional benefits, sensor boosters, cap injectors, tracking computers.
ECCM has no additional benefit and isn't as effective as other counters to other types of ewar.
You DO realize those jammer strengths don't stack, correct? Each of the 6 jammers has a 35.6% chance to jam, which, if all 6 are Magnetometric Jammers, gives a 93% chance of a successful jam against said Megathron.
The effects of this are twofold:
You have also wasted all of your mids jamming a single ship. You are only going to be effectively jamming Gallente ships.
Unless you have advanced intel on what type of ship your enemy is flying, most ECM pilots fit rainbows. Additionally, as previously mentioned they have 0 tank and they also do **** all DPS.
Brick Royl > bad timing the isk is deflating fatser then a baloon in a cactus shop |
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