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Sanadras Riahn
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Posted - 2011.02.07 17:37:00 -
[1]
So, been playing EVE for a while, love it to death. My main character is Caldari (my wife and I wanted to go into Mining, which we are, and the Advanced Mining guide informed us the Caldari ships were the best for starter miners), so I have a little bit of training in Caldari Cruisers.
Now, Hulkageddon is coming up, so we're planning on hanging up the Retrievers for a couple weeks and go out and shoot some stuff that moves. What I'd like to know is which racial ships would be best to train for as far as versatility. As in, which race can I take and still be able to perform well in any sector of space?
I've fallen in love with some of the Amarr ship designs, such as the Omen, but I've heard that their strict focus on EM and Thermal damage somewhat limits their effectiveness outside of Amarr space (unless this is just hot air and they ARE still effective, at which point I may go into that). And I'm not looking for the "easy way out", either, so I don't PLAN to go Passive Drake/Raven to AFK through missions.
What do you suggest as the racial ships to train for when going into missions, that will allow me to mission wherever we happen to be?
Thanks in advance.
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Istvann
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.02.07 17:41:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Istvann on 07/02/2011 17:42:11 While this will always be in debate, I think Minmatar would be considered the "jack of all" races. They do pretty well in guns, missiles, and drones and have a mix of armor and shield tanking ships. They also have ammo for all types of damage.
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Roland Schlosser
Abyssal Heavy Industries Narwhals Ate My Duck
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Posted - 2011.02.07 18:14:00 -
[3]
Each race has a few ships that excel at missions.
Gallente have the Vexor and Dominix.
From what I've seen all the Amarr BS's can run lvl 4's quite effectively
Raven is excellent for caladri
And the Minmatar BS's can run most lvl 4's as well.
I personally fly a dominix for lvl 4's (and all missions now)can be set up for a dual LAR tank, 2 specific armor hardeners, ENAM/DCU2, CR2's in the Mids and 2 LRAR 2LRST and a tractor salvager/ 2 drone range extenders. Allows you to remotely tank a fleet member if things get out of hand.
Only problem I have run into is the Extravaganza missions where drone DPS is almost not enough to take out the final Boss solo (can be done, but takes a bit longer).
Take some time and run fits in EFT (eve fitting tool) to see what can get a good mix of active tank and dps. Start small to minimize isk loss and once you find something that works stick with it.
PS. I can run lvl 4's in amarr space (imperial armaments) If you're ever interested we can fleet up and run some any time just shoot me a mail/PM.
Roland Schlosser HR Director Abyssal Heavy Industries |
E man Industries
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Posted - 2011.02.07 18:32:00 -
[4]
Passive drake will let you run 4's the soonest as the ship boasts an amazing tank. Ally ou need is the battle cruiser skill and heavy missiles. The shield skills will also benifit your retrievers. Missiles are great because they can do any dmg type. Ravens and drakes are not AFK mission boats. Passive refers to not needing to use a shield booster so they passively tank since no active repping mod is present. You still need to be there to cycle targets. To do missions afk you want drones....I also suggest against that. Drake would be my suggestion.
Amar laser based ships do EM and thermal and thus a poor vs certain types found in some area's of space. That said they are still able to do them and benifit from not needing ammo and being able to instantly swap crystals. There is only 1-2 types of rats that have a high em/therm resistance. So you should be fine...what area of space are you in?
Mimnitar are the jack of all trades and thus considered the most versatile but take the longest to train for.
I suggest getting Eve Mon and working out some skill plans. training for guns will take longer as you would need to train same lasers then medium lasers. You also need the support skills such as motion tracking or you may strugle to hit things.
For missiles you also need those support skills to make your missiles fly farther and hit harder.
It is largly up to you.
I would go drake as it is the easiest to train for and can do any mission. Shield skills that it needs are also good for your ORE ships.
However I fly Amar and enjoy shooting lasers and swaping out crystals rather than shooting missiles. DO what you like.
Also you will be working as a pair, did you want 2 of the same or 2 diffrent. A drake to tank and an amar or mimnitar to do dmg may also be fun.
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Cygnus Zhada
Custodians of Athra
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Posted - 2011.02.07 19:05:00 -
[5]
Raven (and all the ships based on that hull) excell at being versatile in PVE. They can fit a very nasty tank if needed but they can also deal good damage of any of the 4 damage types. They're certainly not the best performers dps wise but they're dependable and easy to use. As you stated that's perhaps not what you're looking for (this is a good thing).
Next on the versatility list must be the Dominix due to it's massive tank, drone use and myriad of viable setups. But, just as with the raven; it's boring as ****. You could use an Ishtar instead and get similar results. Projectiles have the ability to change damage type without issues, so minmatar ships are decently versatile. They are also the most fun (biased ofcourse). Amarr is the least versatile due to their em/therm restrictions.
Thing is that over time I've learned that playing the way I like and flying the ships I like is far more important than doing what's optimal for my isk/hour.
--- Stultorum infinitus est numerus. |
mkmin
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Posted - 2011.02.07 19:55:00 -
[6]
I consider missions from the point of view of lvl 4 missions, as they have the most isk/hour potential for a well fit ship. That means battleships. Missions lower than lvl 4's are just what you do while you're working on standings, and mission ships smaller than battleships are what you fly while you're training for battleships. I fly 2 characters on 2 accounts in missions, an Amarr apocalypse and a Gallente Navy Megathron.
I love my Amarr battleship. Even with the restricted damage types it does significantly more damage at almost any range than my maxed out navy mega with rails/sentries (and the supposedly superior kin/therm damage.) The Amarr apocalypse has so much potential because it's "short-ranged" weapons reach 60km + falloff. No other mission ship has such high base DPS at such long ranges, even taking into account the less useful EM damage type.
Now, taking into account my love of the Apoc, my main character is still extremely loyal to Gallente ships. It's just that railguns are weak (unless CCP changes them in future expansions), and sentries annoy me because you either have to not move once they are launched or fly back to them to pick them up. However, the dominix has the potential for a massive tank since guns compete for resources that drones don't.
Caldari you have the option of going with the drake for a massive tank but low DPS, or raven and it's variants that require a large isk investment to get a moderate tank and only moderate base (but customizable) DPS. I have been tempted to try a torpedo golem, but I like the long range on my mega and the massive DPS of my apoc.
Minmatar are a tempting one for me to try, mostly because I'm not sure how well they will perform. For a long while I've been wanting to try a maelstrom with AB/Autocannons. On paper it doesn't look like it would be a top performer, but the mix of benefits make me think it could be highly effective and at least fun to test. I guess I haven't trained it yet because I don't know if it actually would be any more effective than anything else, and don't want to waste the training time if it's not.
TL;DR fly whatever appeals to you most.
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Abram Thrust
MARSOC Galactic
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Posted - 2011.02.07 21:36:00 -
[7]
I think the only one that doesn't have a versatile ship, are the Amarr, and that's just because they are stuck with em/therm turrets, and to my knowledge they don't really have a drone boat bigger than a cruiser.
that said, you mentioned you have some training in Caldari Cruisers, and they are IMO excellent.
the Caracal when fit with Assault Missile Launchers makes a mockery of Level 1 and 2 missions, and with a refit to HML's and being really careful might be able to take on level 3's (never tested)
the Drake makes Level 3's Laughable, and with a good fit and being careful is capable of doing level 4's
and if you decided you like this missioning thing and want to stick with it, the Raven family of Hulls are all great Mission ships.
TlDR: Caldari Missile ships are all wicked at missions, since you say you have some training that way, stick with 'em. It's amazing the glory you can win with a Rifter, a handfull of Fusion S, and Balls |
gfldex
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Posted - 2011.02.07 22:30:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Sanadras Riahn I've fallen in love with some of the Amarr ship designs, such as the Omen, but I've heard that their strict focus on EM and Thermal damage somewhat limits their effectiveness outside of Amarr space (unless this is just hot air and they ARE still effective, at which point I may go into that). And I'm not looking for the "easy way out", either, so I don't PLAN to go Passive Drake/Raven to AFK through missions.
There are plenty of NPCs that are weak to laz0rs. Drones, Sansha, Bloods, DED, Mercs, OEM. You don't really want to shoot angles tho. It's fine in belts with a geddon but complex rats will die rather slow. Serpentis and Guristas are ok if you go close (or use an Apoc).
With the current (un-)balance you want to go Amarr or Minmatar. Skip cruisers if you can.
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Xina Tutor
Amarr Hot Chicks
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Posted - 2011.02.07 22:39:00 -
[9]
I take the nighthawk out as an 'allrounder' ship, like if I want to travel somewhere to do missions (drake would do I suppose if you went to group mission). But when at home I swap ships to use the best for the mission, plus swapping ships makes missions more interesting.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2011.02.07 23:38:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Akita T on 07/02/2011 23:39:26
Missionrunning top versatility tier : Caldari missileboats (with Drake the undisputed champion as far as SP efficiency goes) Second best missionrunning versatility tier : (mainly) Gallente droneboats Amarr laserboats are by far the best against a select few NPC opponents but below average against the rest. Minmatar vessels and all other weapon system/racial ship class are highly situational, but not very versatile as far as missionrunning goes. _
Make ISK||Build||React||1k papercuts _
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Cygnus Zhada
Custodians of Athra
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Posted - 2011.02.07 23:49:00 -
[11]
Akita, you're wrong on that. Minnie can select between EM, thermal and explosive without losing dps. They can shield tank just fine and in the case of a machariel you can even choose an em/thermal armor tank if you wanted to (still having enough gyros).
Minnie is QUITE versatile.
--- Stultorum infinitus est numerus. |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2011.02.08 00:09:00 -
[12]
Yeah, but arty has a meh-ish range/tracking/rawDPS combo as far as mission-running is concerned, and you (almost) never use ACs (as a sane person) for missionrunning (except maybe in a crazy-falloff Vargur setup). In a straight Caldari missileboat vs Gallente droneboat vs any Minnie setup, the former two will perform noticeably better in most situations, and about on par in a few others. _
Make ISK||Build||React||1k papercuts _
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Cygnus Zhada
Custodians of Athra
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Posted - 2011.02.08 00:30:00 -
[13]
Mach with 4 RF gyro/3 TE vs CNR with cruise and 4 CN BCS, target is a BS. Would the target be smaller/faster then it would go more in favor of the Mach. This is NOT counting the Mach's huge dronebay (allows for 4 sentries while still having room for lights).
Is the Mach a normal ship? Perhaps not but it's just as logical as using a CNR, and if you're talking lvl 4's it's certainly not unattainable.
--- Stultorum infinitus est numerus. |
Enriana Shlirapen
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Posted - 2011.02.08 00:59:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Sanadras Riahn So, been playing EVE for a while, love it to death. My main character is Caldari (my wife and I wanted to go into Mining, which we are, and the Advanced Mining guide informed us the Caldari ships were the best for starter miners), so I have a little bit of training in Caldari Cruisers.
Now, Hulkageddon is coming up, so we're planning on hanging up the Retrievers for a couple weeks and go out and shoot some stuff that moves. What I'd like to know is which racial ships would be best to train for as far as versatility. As in, which race can I take and still be able to perform well in any sector of space?
I've fallen in love with some of the Amarr ship designs, such as the Omen, but I've heard that their strict focus on EM and Thermal damage somewhat limits their effectiveness outside of Amarr space (unless this is just hot air and they ARE still effective, at which point I may go into that). And I'm not looking for the "easy way out", either, so I don't PLAN to go Passive Drake/Raven to AFK through missions.
What do you suggest as the racial ships to train for when going into missions, that will allow me to mission wherever we happen to be?
Thanks in advance.
HI welcome to eve + your wife. The thing to realize is that you're asking the wrong question. All these idiots above me would say stuff like raven/golem etc. Let me help you out here, that is all noob bull****. Go out and pvp. Because that is what this game has to offer. Nothing more and nothing less. It might seem that making isk, mining, missioning are important when you're a noob, but they really aren't at all. You see, the thing is if you do those things you will hate this game within 1 week. 6 months if you're an autistic geek. Point is you will burn out.
Eve is about pvp. The game is designed around real world people conflicts ie pvp. Go for that and you will get the most out of it, and your wife. You will figure out how to fund pvping. And if you don't, well too bad for you.
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Mara Rinn
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Posted - 2011.02.08 05:59:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Sanadras Riahn What I'd like to know is which racial ships would be best to train for as far as versatility. As in, which race can I take and still be able to perform well in any sector of space?
Remembering that some interesting content is available to explore once you have astrometrics trained up (you did do the career agent missions didn't you ;), I would recommend one of you specialise into a covops probing frigate (Cheetah, Buzzard, Anathema, Helios are my preferences, in that order), the other train into a heavy assault ship like the Ishtar. Learn to probe down interesting sites, it really opens up a new area of the game.
Ultimately you could aim to fly T3 ships, set up for exploration and "unprobable" mission running. These ships are more than just versatile :)
-- [Aussie players: join ANZAC channel] |
Cathy Drall
Amarr Royal Amarr Institute
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Posted - 2011.02.08 06:02:00 -
[16]
Well you want to do some mission running while Hulkageddon is raging across the universe "for couple of weeks". Which means you have a few days to train up something if I'm not mistaken.
There's only two races that can do all kinds of damage (and thus adjust to the opponents you're going to face): Caldari and Minmatar. Gallente can too if you train all the drone specializations but their hybrids can't, which is restrictive.
I'm sorry to say but if you already trained some Caldari cruiser and probably shield skills, the only viable choice is a passsive Drake to do L3 missions. Drakes don't require very high SP to be effective, a lot less than cross training other ships. By the time you've trained up an efficient Omen to do L2s you may already be doing L3s in a Drake with relative ease.
"Im not nearly as paranoid as people think I am" |
Sanadras Riahn
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Posted - 2011.02.08 15:19:00 -
[17]
Thank you, everyone, for the varied responses, especially you, Enriana. PVP is going to be our end goal, once we've got some good support skills for this or that as well as a good bit of ISK under our belt to fund our shenanigans.
The mission running for a couple of weeks will be a good primer, you could say. We do have an end goal on what we want to fly and be able to accomplish with our mining, so time spent training for missions will not be wasted.
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Morgals
Sturmgrenadier Inc
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Posted - 2011.02.08 15:54:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Sanadras Riahn Thank you, everyone, for the varied responses, especially you, Enriana. PVP is going to be our end goal, once we've got some good support skills for this or that as well as a good bit of ISK under our belt to fund our shenanigans.
The mission running for a couple of weeks will be a good primer, you could say. We do have an end goal on what we want to fly and be able to accomplish with our mining, so time spent training for missions will not be wasted.
All races can do missions so as mentioned train what you like. If your training for PvP be aware that being able to fly a BS may not be the fastest way into PvP. Learning on smaller ships performing tackling or e-war or anti support work is a good cheap way to learn PvP. You will learn more piloting a Merlin on some PvP op's than in level 4 missions.
I suggest you find a really good corp who is active in some light PvP warfare. Specifically those in 0.0 NPC space would make a great starting point. Or a faction warfare group. Isk is easy to have when your piloting cheap expendable ships. Unlike other games these "starter" ships perform a very important function in fleets. It's all to easy to get stuck doing lvl 4's skilling up till you have isk and never really moving on as you will need more isk to run them faster and then other upgrades...all to eventually pvp when you could be doing that right now.
You do not need 500million isk and to be able to fly a faction fitted battle ship to be of value. Yes some 0.0 alliances require this but not all. Again find a good corp or alliance.
For example I PvP and am learning a ton, there is always a pvp fleet up doing a roam, for isk we get better PI planets and better asteroid belts so it is easier to make isk. Tacklers(often frigates) are always required for a fleet, even cruisers and e-war cruisers have a spot in fleets.
All of this means you can do what you want, you can mine high value ore, PvP, even mission(better agents). DonÆt think that you need to run lvl 4Æs for a long time just to be able to do what you like in EvE.
So find a good corpàit makes all the difference in the world. I say all this because I ran lvl 4Æs for months thinking I needed isk and I needed skills to PvP. Only to find I could have been PvPing the entire time.
PS
Amar rock. Dark Star Industries
Actions speak louder than words. Let us show you=> DSI-Recruitment in game channel |
Lost Greybeard
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Posted - 2011.02.08 17:17:00 -
[19]
Most flexible would be Gallente and Minmatar. Both have selectable damage types without loss of damage bonuses (projectiles for min, drones for gallente) and ships with highly tunable tank.
That said, if you've started Caldari just do Caldari ships, and mission in that area. When fighting mostly your racial enemies you don't need to be flexible, kinetic missiles and shield-favoring resists will be fine in 95% of missions in Caldari space and you can live with them through the other 5%. Since you tend to mission in a BS once you get to L4s, you're going to be leaving it somewhere with a jump clone, not hauling it with you "wherever you may be". ---
If you outlaw tautologies, only outlaws will have tautologies. ~Anonymous |
Kajan Tormen
Minmatar Blood Money Inc. The Blood Money Cartel
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Posted - 2011.02.09 15:12:00 -
[20]
on the actual topic: Caldari missile slingers are usually considered top performers for mission running, as they are very reliable in applying good damage to pretty much any NPC and any range. That said, amarr laser boats are usually better against EM weak NPCs (and only against those) and Minmatar autocannon ships are better against explosive weak NPCs (essentially angels).
now to the actual reason for my reply:
Originally by: Sanadras Riahn PVP is going to be our end goal, once we've got some good support skills for this or that as well as a good bit of ISK under our belt to fund our shenanigans.
don't wait to long! Many people fall into the trap of "I just need a few more skillpoints/ISK, then I am good at PvP" - and then chase "a few more" for the next 3 years. While having SP and ISK a-plenty are obviously beneficial to a PvP career - they are not what make you good at PvP: Actual player skill is. And the only way to get that is by going out and PvPing (well, and reading some guides and forums ).
A 3 year old pilot that has only ever dealt with the PvE aspects of EVE is not much better prepared for PvP then a 3 month old newcomer - only his initial losses will be more expensive. The best way to learn to fight is in cheap frigates, fitted for less then 5 mil isk a pop (often less then 1 mil if you go for mainly low meta T1 fittings). And those can be competently flown by 3 month old characters. Personally, I recommend people to start in their first month playing, but I have to agree that this is somewhat tough.
By now you are probably thinking: all this coming from a pirate , he just wants new easy targets to pick on. Well, I have to admit that, true - but it IS good advise non the less!
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Cygnus Zhada
Custodians of Athra
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Posted - 2011.02.09 15:25:00 -
[21]
Correct; most MMO's (and society as a whole) molds people into thinking that before they're allowed to have fun they must endure hardship and grinding. Must get to lvl 80, must get good gear, must lvl up fishing and perhaps THEN you can start to have some fun (only to find that it's still not fun).
EVE is different, you can be useful in a team very quickly and you can be successful solo quite fast, it DOES require effort and a few braincells though.
--- Stultorum infinitus est numerus. |
RaTTuS
BIG Majesta Empire
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Posted - 2011.02.09 15:57:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Cygnus Zhada
EVE is different, you can be useful in a team very quickly and you can be successful solo quite fast, it DOES require effort and a few braincells though.
see This --
Join BIG
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Kajan Tormen
Minmatar Blood Money Inc. The Blood Money Cartel
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Posted - 2011.02.09 16:23:00 -
[23]
also a nice link on the topic: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1025677 shows two 2 day old characters, working as a team, killing people left, right and center in 0.0. Now, those two are alts of PvP vets, not genuine newbies. But it does nicely prove my point that player knowledge & skill is vastly more important then a high SP count
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Mocam
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Posted - 2011.02.11 05:04:00 -
[24]
Each race has advantages but - If you like Amarr then train for those ships.
If it's "go anywhere" - look at recon as an eventual target ship and Amarr recon ships are some of the best you'll find for small team work.
The EM/Therm is "somewhat" accurate. It simply means it takes longer to do certain targets than others, not that it will prevent you from PvE based operations nor PvP usefulness. It's a whine issue because it can limit effectiveness in situations but not to the point of preventing you, simply slowing you down.
You can also look at your own Caldari ships. A T3 Tengu is considered as one of the best ships to use for almost anything and the strength/flexibility of fitting it lends it to a wide variety of activities that few other ships can match. They work for PvE and PvP so your starting race is also a strong player in any type of "functionality" considerations.
Note that these are longer term goal ships if you barely have cruiser skills but having a goal to aim for is fairly important as you progress in the game.
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Jennifer Starling
State War Academy
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Posted - 2011.02.11 08:57:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Mocam You can also look at your own Caldari ships. A T3 Tengu is considered as one of the best ships to use for almost anything and the strength/flexibility of fitting it lends it to a wide variety of activities that few other ships can match. They work for PvE and PvP so your starting race is also a strong player in any type of "functionality" considerations.
Tengus are very versatile, I can't think of a ship in EVE that's more versatile than a Tengu.
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Pookie McPook
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Posted - 2011.02.11 23:40:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Roland Schlosser And the Minmatar BS's can run most lvl 4's as well.
The Minmatar battleships can run all the level 4 missions with ease. In fact I would have to say that any battleship should be able to run any L4, assuming you have the correct skills to fit it. If you're having problems then skill up...you only need t2 fits. -----
Marmite. Rocket fuel of champions. |
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